Why Brazilian Portuguese and not just Portuguese?
Why is this page listed as "Brazilian Portuguese" if this portuguese translation is used and, in the case of the TCG selled, in more portuguese speaking countries than just brazil? the same translation is used in other portuguese countries like Portugal for example. By comparision, the list of the english pokémon names is titlled "English names" and not "american english names", or the spansih one is not titled "latin spanish names", so we should change it to "list of Portuguese Pokémon names" caus in the way this page is listed right now, makes it look like these names are only used in brazilObrigada Jim (Obrigada Jim) 17:56, 07 January 2024
- Brazilian Portuguese =/= Portuguese Hikaru Wazana (talk) 19:39, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
- Brazilian Portuguese is not a diferent language than portuguese, they are comparabel to how british english and american english are still english and not used as 2 diferente languages like you implied. And like i said the portuguese translation is the same for all portuguese sspeaking countries not just brazil. Obrigada Jim (Obrigada Jim) 20:13, 07 January 2024
translation is the same for all portuguese sspeaking countries not just brazil. Obrigada Jim (Obrigada Jim) 20:13, 07 January 2024
- In this case, Portuguese is more comparable to Spanish. While, yes, Latin American Spanish and European Spanish are both ultimately the same language, there are sufficient "differences" between them that allow for this classification; even the games as of Scarlet and Violet recognize this, with the Pokémon from Spanish games are labeled with SP-EU instead of simply SPA as it used to be. And, no, the Portuguese translation is not the same for all Portuguese-speaking countries. Some terms are very different between Brazilian and European Portuguese. Speaking of this page, it would be too early to assume that the Paradox Pokémon names would be the same in European Portuguese. We know their names mainly due to Pokémon GO and the TCG, which do not have European Portuguese localization. Shinka (talk) 21:28, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
- Exactly, that is a a great comparision cause, there is only one page for "spanish names", and you are wrong about there being diferent localizations, there are not, the portuguese localization is the same for at least both brazil and portugal i can asecure you and you can check by loking in this both portugal stores and seeing the localization here (https://www.oquiosque.pt/product/pokemon-tcg-escarlate-e-violeta-fenda-paradoxal-booster-pt), here (https://www.fnac.pt/Pokemon-Fenda-Paradoxal-Blister-4-Boosters-Jogos-de-Sociedade-Jogos-de-Cartas/a11433244) and here (https://www.fnac.pt/Pokemon-Fenda-Paradoxal-Blisters-3-Boosters-Jogos-de-Sociedade-Jogos-de-Cartas/a11433243), as u can see the expansion is called "fenda paradoxal" and not "paradox rift", and yes u can buy english card inb both brazil and portugal as well, but there is the portuguese localization and its the same for all portuguese speaking countries not just brazil. Obrigada Jim (Obrigada Jim) 22:12, 07 January 2024
- To my knowledge, the TCG has been only localized to Brazilian Portuguese by COPAG. I thought the PT-BR localization was then "exported" to other Portuguese-speaking countries, but I am not that well versed on this topic so I can be soundly wrong. What I meant about the localization not being the same comes from the anime (which, as far as I know, is the only media officially localized to PT-EU), as some names differ between Brazilian and European Portuguese. At the end of it all, I don't think I am the right person to discuss this topic, as my knowledge about it is fairly limited. Shinka (talk) 23:13, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, COPAG does the portuguese translation to all the portuguese speaking countries, for example, portuguese translated cards are present in portugal as far as gen 1, and yes the anime is localized diferently but that also happens with spanish and latin american spanish, still there isnt pages spesifically for each one. The names mentioned in this page are present and used in the tcg, the same tcg localization present in more portuguese speaking countries than just brazil so i think this page should be renamed to just "List of pokémon portuguese names." Obrigada Jim (Obrigada Jim) 00:40, 08 January 2024
- My opinion: if the cards that are sold in Portugal use the same terminology as those in Brazil, then Portuguese fans use the same terminology as Brazilian fans... making it unnecessary for there to be a separation between Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese regarding Pokémon names. I believe that separating two variants is only necessary when there really dialectal differences which appears not to be the case here. I am in favor of changing from Brazilian Portuguese to simply Portuguese.Knight Brazil93 (talk) 04:50, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
(resetting indent) The European Portuguese dub of the anime used Type: Null's English name instead of "Tipo Nulo", so it's inaccurate to claim that any of these names have been used in the European Portuguese dub. The Portuguese press site also only has English names and TCG products even though the Brazilian one has Portuguese names and TCG products. By comparison, both Spanish dubs used "Código Cero", both the es-es and es-mx sites use the Spanish localized names of the Paradox Pokémon, and both the es and es-MX press sites have Spanish names and TCG products. --Abcboy (talk) 06:44, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
- I was Checking about the Portugal tcg press site being in english and maybe thats the case cause both TCG language options are selled in portugal. In older tcg expansions (until diamond and pearl expansions) portugal and brazil had their own diferent localizations, but around the most recent expansions, the portugal localization made by DEVIR was stopped and the one made by COPAG in brazil was imported to portugal. Since then, they share the same localization, i think thats the case, because both localizations were very similar so they kept it as only one localization, still the portuguese localized cards are selled in portugal together with english ones, as well as you can see in the links provided on the replies above. You can't find any other language options in Portuguese offical stores other than english and portuguese. The main store to sell TCG products in portugal is FNAC, the same store that usually distributes pokemon events like the zarude code and the shiny solgaleo and lunala one, and it has both tcg language options disponible, portuguese by COPAG and english. I live in portugal and i have a card named "Tipo Nulo", its a name used in a oficial product that is selled here in the offical language of the country, so it is used in more countries thanh just brazil, the way this page is named makes it look like those names are only used in brazil, and thats wrong, their used in more countries that speak portuguese so it should be renamed in my view - unsigned comment from Obrigada Jim (talk • contribs)
- The best example I can give is Raihan, in Portugal, Raihan kept his original name, in Brazil, he is known as Roy[1][2] Professor Oak is the same case (in Brazil, he is called Professor Carvalho, while the Portuguese use the original name), there are other cases, where the anime in Brazil adapted the names of characters too, like Temacu. Several names adapted from moves in Brazil were adapted from the anime translation and this was used in some media. As anyone with the basics of the Portuguese language knows, each country has its regional variations. In the same way that British English is different from American English.--Hikaru Wazana (talk) 17:21, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
- The links you provided about the name Raihan in portugal are reffered to the main game, the game has not a portuguese language option, they have to use the english names. By that logic, Pokémon sword and shield were sold in brazil as well with all the character names in english for example. Then that card name is used and selled in both portugal and Brazil tcg, your example about language regional variants is correct and thats why, if there is only one page for english names and not 2 listed as "british english" and "american english" then why isn't this page just called "portuguese names" if all of the names listed are used in both portugal and brazil and not just brazil. Even all the diferent chinese translations of the names are all listed in just one page and then separatedly identified in the page, there are also some form names that have portuguese names like lycanroc forms in the portugal anime dub being called "Lycanroc Forma noturna", "lycanrock forma diurna" and "lycanrock forma crepuscular", all those could be listed here if the page name was just "portuguese names" - unsigned comment from Obrigada Jim (talk • contribs)
- Raihan's English name was kept as Raihan in the European Portuguese dub, but was adapted to Roy in the Brazilian Portuguese one. You can notice many differences between PT-EU and PT-BR through the anime dubs on Netflix. I do think a "in Portuguese" page could theoretically exist, but, from what I've seen, European Portuguese has less "support" than Brazilian Portuguese: games, such as GO and UNITE, specifically state Brazilian Portuguese, and not simply Portuguese; the TCG is handled by Copag, a Brazilian company; and as far as I know, the manga also falls under the same situation. Shinka (talk) 21:56, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
- As a comparision:The spanish tcg is handled by Asmodee a enterprise in spain, still latin america has that spanish tcg adaptation as their main language in TCG, in fact, just like portugal, in latin america both english and their main language (Spanish in case of latin american and portuguese in case of portugal) cards are officially selled there, so if spanish has their own page, portuguese should as well. And yeah i agree with you, there are some diferent names between european portuguese and brazilian portuguese anime dubs, so yes we could move this page to "list of portuguese names" and list the diferences here, like it happens in the chinese names page and others. We could identify the diferent anime names here under "european portuguese" and "brazilian portuguese" like lycanrock forms that differ between dubs as well as shellos froms in the TCG when portugal had their own TCG adaptation made by DEVIR, before they closed it down and started using COPAG's one made in brazil. But i still think we should at least have the TCG names listed as just "Portuguese" since they are used in both coubntries, we can had a trivia stating that in the anime dub in european portuguese type null was used instead of tipo nulo, but the tcg selled there still calls that pokemon "Tipo nulo". Tell me wich changes you people agree with and if we all get to a concensus i will do the research about the diferent form names in the dubs and had them myself dont worry. - unsigned comment from Obrigada Jim (talk • contribs)
- The TCG is translated to Brazilian Portuguese, not a neutral Portuguese. The TCG Card Dex credits specifically list "Brazilian-Portuguese" for the TCG localization team. On the rulebook, all translators listed under "Tradução e edição" are Brazilians and were contracted as Brazilian Portuguese Localization Editors, as can be seen on some of their LinkedIn pages (1, 2). The back of TCG products always has a link to the Brazilian website as well as the Brazilian translation of Gotta catch 'em all.
- As abcboy said, the Portugal press site always announces the TCG products with their English names while the Brazilian site always has them translated. The TCG website is also only available in Brazilian Portuguese, and the trailers specifically list "[Brasil]" in the title, further proving that TPCi translates the TCG into Brazilian Portuguese specifically. Portugal stores selling these products doesn't make them a neutral Portuguese translation; they probably just imported the products from Brazil.
- The TCG localizers I mentioned earlier also supervise the anime episodes, both the main series as well as other animated series released in Brazil, and all of these series always use the same terminology (such as moves, items, and character names) in Brazil as the TCG (with rare exceptions). This terminology is also used for Pokémon GO and Pokémon UNITE, which are translated to Brazilian Portuguese. Meanwhile, the terminology used in the Portugal dub of the anime differs significantly from that, as other users have pointed out earlier. Even some character names from Pokémon Horizons are different between Brazil and Portugal, such as Hollie/Mollie and Nidotina/Gururina.
- Therefore, I don't think there is any evidence that Pokémon is trying to make a "neutral"/"uniform" translation for Portuguese-speaking countries, and the Paradox Pokémon are likely to have different names in Portugal, just like Type: Null. I believe we should keep this page as is and, when the European Portuguese names for Paradox Pokémon are revealed (provided they're not left in English), make a separate page for the European Portuguese names. --Mine4017 (talk) 23:33, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
- Still, everytime the official publicher of the TCG in portugal releases a product they only describe it as "in portuguese" in their store, and not in "brazilian portuguese", as you can see in this post (https://devir.pt/pokemon-box-lugia-v-e-unown-v-realeza-absoluta-em-portugues), but if the TCG app lists it as "brazilian portuguese" than we should let that collum of names stay as the "brazilian portuguese names" i belive. I also think devir must import the tcg from brazil and list them as just "portuguese" to avoid confusion, since if they called it brazillian portuguese people could think there were another portuguese translation, cause its weird for it to not just be called portuguese, american english is slight diferent than british english and still the cards aren't listed as "american english" and only as "english". Then, About the last thing u said, doesnt make scense to create a new page for european portuguese if we can list both portugueses translations here, like i said chinsese diferent translations through the years are all listed in the same page, so why shouldnt all the portuguese translations be added in one page as well? i think we still should change this page name and then adress at least the diferences between the names of pokemon and pokemon forms in the portugal and brazil diferent dubs for now. - unsigned comment from Obrigada Jim (talk • contribs)
- I don't know much from Chinese, but from what I've seen, the Traditional Chinese and Simplified Chinese names of Pokémon are all the same, they just have different spellings and pronunciations, that's why they're on the same page. If the European Portuguese Pokémon names end up being mostly different than those from Brazil, I believe they should be on separate pages. Other than historically being the same language, the Brazilian Portuguese and European Portuguese Pokémon translations have nothing in common: they're handled by different localization teams, the range of products available are different (TCG, GO, and UNITE are translated to BP but not EP), they have different distribution and release schedule for the anime, and the majority of terminology is different. They're almost treated as different languages, not only in Pokémon, but in other games/anime/movies/etc. But for now, none of the Paradox Pokémon have had their European Portuguese names revealed, and Type: Null kept its English name in the Portugal dub, so I see no reason to move this to "List of Portuguese Pokémon names".
- For Pokémon forms though, they aren't currently listed on any of the "List of (language) Pokémon names" currently. They're listed only on the Pokémon species pages. I'm not sure if they should be listed here or not. --Mine4017 (talk) 22:14, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
- I do not belive Pokemon company tries to trate "european portuguese" and "brazilian portuguese" as 2 diferent languages, and the major evidence is, everytime they do use either one or the other and never give the 2 options at the same time. Like you already mentioned, in Pokémon GO and Unite, things are listed as "Brazilian Portuguese" and then in every mainline game since black and white, all the Trailers, oficial websites of the main games, and even the game folders themselves, they are all in portuguese listed as "Portugal" (https://web.archive.org/web/20230407051636/https://legends.pokemon.com/pt-pt/) (https://scarletviolet.pokemon.com/pt-pt/). Even in the main sites and trailersof the mainline games, they do list UK english and american english as 2 options of english but for portuguese its allways only listed as just "Portugal". The conclusion is, with the only expetion of the anime, in all other media they always use only one form of Portuguese, in the mobile games they list it as "brazialian" and in all the main line games they list it as "european portuguese", they only treat it as one portuguese option everytime, and it beeing always listed as either portugal or brazil usually depends on team they hired for the adaptation, if they are from Portugal or Brazil they end up listing that as well. If Pokémon Company cared about having 2 distinct portuguese versions they would provide 2 options in every media, but since they allways only have one or the other shows that they view portuguese as one language, this page should do it as well.
- Then about the chinese thing you said, yes and no, some names change between Hong Kong, Tawian and i think even Macau, and then the comparision about the pronunciation thing, thats not so diferent from this case, "brazilian portuguese" and "european portuguese" main diference is their accent, writting it is very very simillar cause, in 2009, all the portuguese speaking countries made a agremment to use the same grammar and orthography (it was created in 1990 but only started beeing implemented and used in 2009 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Language_Orthographic_Agreement_of_1990) and isn't it a coincidence that, it was around that time that the portugal tcg adaptation by DEVIR was shut down and they started importing the TCG one made in Brazil?
- Still, everytime the official publicher of the TCG in portugal releases a product they only describe it as "in portuguese" in their store, and not in "brazilian portuguese", as you can see in this post (https://devir.pt/pokemon-box-lugia-v-e-unown-v-realeza-absoluta-em-portugues), but if the TCG app lists it as "brazilian portuguese" than we should let that collum of names stay as the "brazilian portuguese names" i belive. I also think devir must import the tcg from brazil and list them as just "portuguese" to avoid confusion, since if they called it brazillian portuguese people could think there were another portuguese translation, cause its weird for it to not just be called portuguese, american english is slight diferent than british english and still the cards aren't listed as "american english" and only as "english". Then, About the last thing u said, doesnt make scense to create a new page for european portuguese if we can list both portugueses translations here, like i said chinsese diferent translations through the years are all listed in the same page, so why shouldnt all the portuguese translations be added in one page as well? i think we still should change this page name and then adress at least the diferences between the names of pokemon and pokemon forms in the portugal and brazil diferent dubs for now. - unsigned comment from Obrigada Jim (talk • contribs)
- As a comparision:The spanish tcg is handled by Asmodee a enterprise in spain, still latin america has that spanish tcg adaptation as their main language in TCG, in fact, just like portugal, in latin america both english and their main language (Spanish in case of latin american and portuguese in case of portugal) cards are officially selled there, so if spanish has their own page, portuguese should as well. And yeah i agree with you, there are some diferent names between european portuguese and brazilian portuguese anime dubs, so yes we could move this page to "list of portuguese names" and list the diferences here, like it happens in the chinese names page and others. We could identify the diferent anime names here under "european portuguese" and "brazilian portuguese" like lycanrock forms that differ between dubs as well as shellos froms in the TCG when portugal had their own TCG adaptation made by DEVIR, before they closed it down and started using COPAG's one made in brazil. But i still think we should at least have the TCG names listed as just "Portuguese" since they are used in both coubntries, we can had a trivia stating that in the anime dub in european portuguese type null was used instead of tipo nulo, but the tcg selled there still calls that pokemon "Tipo nulo". Tell me wich changes you people agree with and if we all get to a concensus i will do the research about the diferent form names in the dubs and had them myself dont worry. - unsigned comment from Obrigada Jim (talk • contribs)
- Raihan's English name was kept as Raihan in the European Portuguese dub, but was adapted to Roy in the Brazilian Portuguese one. You can notice many differences between PT-EU and PT-BR through the anime dubs on Netflix. I do think a "in Portuguese" page could theoretically exist, but, from what I've seen, European Portuguese has less "support" than Brazilian Portuguese: games, such as GO and UNITE, specifically state Brazilian Portuguese, and not simply Portuguese; the TCG is handled by Copag, a Brazilian company; and as far as I know, the manga also falls under the same situation. Shinka (talk) 21:56, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
- The links you provided about the name Raihan in portugal are reffered to the main game, the game has not a portuguese language option, they have to use the english names. By that logic, Pokémon sword and shield were sold in brazil as well with all the character names in english for example. Then that card name is used and selled in both portugal and Brazil tcg, your example about language regional variants is correct and thats why, if there is only one page for english names and not 2 listed as "british english" and "american english" then why isn't this page just called "portuguese names" if all of the names listed are used in both portugal and brazil and not just brazil. Even all the diferent chinese translations of the names are all listed in just one page and then separatedly identified in the page, there are also some form names that have portuguese names like lycanroc forms in the portugal anime dub being called "Lycanroc Forma noturna", "lycanrock forma diurna" and "lycanrock forma crepuscular", all those could be listed here if the page name was just "portuguese names" - unsigned comment from Obrigada Jim (talk • contribs)
- The best example I can give is Raihan, in Portugal, Raihan kept his original name, in Brazil, he is known as Roy[1][2] Professor Oak is the same case (in Brazil, he is called Professor Carvalho, while the Portuguese use the original name), there are other cases, where the anime in Brazil adapted the names of characters too, like Temacu. Several names adapted from moves in Brazil were adapted from the anime translation and this was used in some media. As anyone with the basics of the Portuguese language knows, each country has its regional variations. In the same way that British English is different from American English.--Hikaru Wazana (talk) 17:21, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
(resetting indent)I swear I'm trying to understand the point of this discussion. o.O Hikaru Wazana (talk) 14:05, 11 January 2024 (UTC)