Duration
I'm thinking that it might be best to only worry about effects that last past the end of the turn. Effects that only apply for the duration of the turn like Focus Punch end up being too difficult to identify. This would also exclude flinch and center of attention which I do think are useful, but I'd rather handle those two specific cases separately.
Also, I think "Different Type" should be treated the same way as moves that change a Pokémon's stat stages. They change a specific characteristic, rather than being a particular status. --SnorlaxMonster 02:12, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
- I have to disagree on your first point. While they may be difficult to identify, they are still a status applied to the Pokémon, that cause the Pokémon to behave differently than it would otherwise for the duration of that turn (in Focus Punch's case, failing to attack if hit, for example). Your second point, regarding "different type" I'm more on the fence about, but inclined to agree with you. Xolroc (talk) 03:26, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
- We'd also lose protection and some others. Even if they were difficult to find (which I don't think they are), I believe that's not a reason to exclude them. Their short duration may be a reason on its own, but without a good argument in mind, I just included them. (If we can template that somehow as suggested on the status talk page, I have something like "<1 turn" for them in mind.) If whatever your special handling will be makes more sense, we can surely reconsider, but right now, I see no reason to.
- Yeah, I guess we can lose "Different Type". I included it because I thought it is roughly similar to transforming, and that needs to be included. But yes, it's also similar to stat changes, so getting rid of it probably makes more sense. Nescientist (talk) 19:37, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
- I feel like effects that only last until the end of the turn are fundamentally different to effects that continue for an extended duration. Maybe they should be on a separate page? I think there is a difference between a "status" which has some kind of longevity, and the direct effect of a move that lasts for the current turn.
- With Instruct it's actually possible to try seeing if any of these "until the end of the turn" effects can be passed by Baton Pass; I checked "center of attention" using Spotlight, and it cannot be passed by Baton Pass. If any effect which lasts only until the end of the turn could be passed by Baton Pass, I would be convinced that at least some of them qualify as "statuses" to some extent. But otherwise, to me they seem to be simply effects of moves rather than statuses. However, I guess the fact that protection can be lifted before the end of the turn already gives some weight to this. --SnorlaxMonster 13:47, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
- I think you cannot test all of them, but you could test Magic Coat and Snatch.
- I think that's the real problem: "status" vs. "effect". I actually don't know why we need to differentiate; most of those "effects" last for longer than a turn (so are "statuses" in your words?). If we differentiate, what is status, what is effect? It cannot depend on the source(s), nor on Baton Pass, I believe, so is it duration then? If it is, where is the threshold: for example, is Charge a status or an effect (it wears off after the next move, not after the next turn)? More or less: I see the "problem" (an entirely subjective one I believe, based on... intuition?), but I see no reasonable and objective way to "solve" it, other than to not create it in the first place, to circumvent it. Nescientist (talk) 16:44, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
- At the end of a turn, (IMO) you can consider that Pokemon generally go back to a neutral position. Within the space of that turn, then, it doesn't matter what they do—protect is something they do for that whole turn, and if another Pokemon does something special (like Feint) it can be broken, but either way at the end they're back to neutral. This isn't incredibly special (again, IMO). Any effect that persists despite returning to neutral is special: a "status". This reasonably includes things like two-turn moves, like Charge, like bound conditions (Fire Spin/etc). Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:24, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
- That... makes perfect sense, then. It sounds like a good reason to exclude those to me. (But I believe Charge can also be used up in one turn with Instruct.) Nescientist (talk) 18:20, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
- The important consideration is still whether it can last to the next turn at all. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:26, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
- That... makes perfect sense, then. It sounds like a good reason to exclude those to me. (But I believe Charge can also be used up in one turn with Instruct.) Nescientist (talk) 18:20, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
- At the end of a turn, (IMO) you can consider that Pokemon generally go back to a neutral position. Within the space of that turn, then, it doesn't matter what they do—protect is something they do for that whole turn, and if another Pokemon does something special (like Feint) it can be broken, but either way at the end they're back to neutral. This isn't incredibly special (again, IMO). Any effect that persists despite returning to neutral is special: a "status". This reasonably includes things like two-turn moves, like Charge, like bound conditions (Fire Spin/etc). Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:24, 19 January 2017 (UTC)