Previous discussions
Split discussion
Reviving this discussion ahead of a public announcement. As a refresher, the main issue is that we currently use "Pokémon anime" to refer to three different things. In order to clarify this information correctly, the following will need to be broken up and detailed appropriately via dedicated pages:
- Pokémon animation: all Pokémon-related animation in general
- Pokémon animated series: the animated series including PtS and HZ
- Pokémon the Series: the animated series featuring Ash from OS-JN
Eventually, mentions of "anime" would need to be changed to refer to the appropriate article for the given context, but for now, we're mostly concerned with taking this first step to fix the content.
While we are pretty far along with the planning and source material confirmation for all of this content, I encourage any interested users/readers to post any additional comments within this section. MaverickNate 06:23, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
- For the sake of argument, have we considered treating the main series as Pokémon anime (EP001-JN147) or (OS-JN) or simply (Ash saga) and Pokémon anime (HZ001-present)? Considering that Horizons is also a part of 'the series' (titled same as Journeys, with the series part at the end). Also future proofs any other series that were to continue using the old naming convention. Wouldnt it be a less confusing naming convention? And the other form of animation as simply Pokémon animation as suggested above. The particular problem I have with the proposed naming is reserving The Series naming exclusively for the Ash saga, which is factually wrong and will be in future if they are to continue naming other seasons/series as The Series. Adil — Talk page 15:49, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think it'd be for the best to come up with a term that allows both Ash's journey and Horizons to be placed under the same header, for the purposes of maintaining the structure of the current "In the anime -> Main series" sections as close to as they are now. Not sure what that term could be, though. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 16:19, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- Ideally, one of the benefits of this is we're not 'coming up' with any terms: we're using the terms produced by the source material as written. The three items I've written above have been vetted with references, with the definitions as provided.
- And for all intents and purposes, treating an old, finished series as the 'main series' feels the opposite of future proofing. While we don't know what is coming next, Horizons is the current main series, and is treated as such. Pokémon the Series = Ash's saga only, so contrary to the comments above, it's what is factually correct according to all official references. I would agree if we were taking a made up term like 'the series', but tht's not what we're doing here. What we're doing is calling something by its name. MaverickNate 23:23, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- By all the official references? I am sorry but that has severe logical fallacies, when you fail to consider the TPC sources, not just TPCi ones. Once again, my argument is that it is wrong to permanently reserve 'the series' part for the Ash story. The series naming convention was invented exclusively for the anime series, not for Ash or a character arc, but to have a consistent style for the anime episodes similar to how they approach movies. They still use it, even after Ash, hence Pokemon Horizons: The Series, exactly like Pokemon Journeys: The Series. It is not the oppposite of future proofing to consider the possibility of something as generic as 'the series' to be used again. Hyper focusing on a few official references, while completely ignoring the others is confirmation bias. There are official sources, TPC itself not TPCi, who label it as S26, yet we choose to ignore that and title the season article in full. The entire reason behind pedia using abbreviations was to make it easier for the average reader to find articles easily while keeping the accuracy intact. I am not inventing anything drastically different when I say that the main anime article should be titled based on epicode order or the character saga added at the end of its name, as opposed to reserving an entire generic term such as 'Pokemon the Series' as a character saga and negating anything after. Being concluded doesn't negate the fact that it was very much a part of the main series as it was airing, same as Horizons or any future series. We literally have 'twenty-sixth season' bit mentioned in the very first paragraph of the article, and yet the article is called 'Pokémon Horizons: The Series (season)' and that's precisely the problem. We even have S26 redirecting to the same article. Do you see the gaping flaw here? We are bending over backwards to focus on a set of official references to fit a specific narrative. Hence the entire argument. Adil — Talk page 11:18, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- But you see? What you are doing is bending over backwards with the opposite set of resources in order to fit *your* narrative. Many of your concerns have already been worked through, and have plans in progress and drafts written out handling the facts as they are written. The goal of the wiki is to inform and reflect the source material as it is, not as we like it to be. And when official resources conflict, there is literally no choice but to pick one over another. In this case, we have chosen to prioritize the Japanese and English information as the original creators of the source material, and noting the derivative official source material somewhere in the page. I recommend either asking questions or waiting to see what is written before assuming the worst. MaverickNate 12:09, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- By all the official references? I am sorry but that has severe logical fallacies, when you fail to consider the TPC sources, not just TPCi ones. Once again, my argument is that it is wrong to permanently reserve 'the series' part for the Ash story. The series naming convention was invented exclusively for the anime series, not for Ash or a character arc, but to have a consistent style for the anime episodes similar to how they approach movies. They still use it, even after Ash, hence Pokemon Horizons: The Series, exactly like Pokemon Journeys: The Series. It is not the oppposite of future proofing to consider the possibility of something as generic as 'the series' to be used again. Hyper focusing on a few official references, while completely ignoring the others is confirmation bias. There are official sources, TPC itself not TPCi, who label it as S26, yet we choose to ignore that and title the season article in full. The entire reason behind pedia using abbreviations was to make it easier for the average reader to find articles easily while keeping the accuracy intact. I am not inventing anything drastically different when I say that the main anime article should be titled based on epicode order or the character saga added at the end of its name, as opposed to reserving an entire generic term such as 'Pokemon the Series' as a character saga and negating anything after. Being concluded doesn't negate the fact that it was very much a part of the main series as it was airing, same as Horizons or any future series. We literally have 'twenty-sixth season' bit mentioned in the very first paragraph of the article, and yet the article is called 'Pokémon Horizons: The Series (season)' and that's precisely the problem. We even have S26 redirecting to the same article. Do you see the gaping flaw here? We are bending over backwards to focus on a set of official references to fit a specific narrative. Hence the entire argument. Adil — Talk page 11:18, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think it'd be for the best to come up with a term that allows both Ash's journey and Horizons to be placed under the same header, for the purposes of maintaining the structure of the current "In the anime -> Main series" sections as close to as they are now. Not sure what that term could be, though. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 16:19, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
(resetting indent)I'm all for the split. How soon can it happen? Lamille (talk) 20:15, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
- Executing this split is one of our current projects and expected to begin pretty soon. Just finalizing some details before moving forward. Landfish7 21:31, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
- I hope those details include a way to place "Pokémon the Series" and "Pokémon Horizons" stuff under the same header. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 22:02, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
Just curious, where will Pokémon anime redirect to following the split? My preference would be to Pokémon animation rather than to Pokémon the Series (even though that's where the page history is moving to), mostly because the former is the most all-encompassing (which this page kinda is pre-split), but really it's up to y'all ofc haha. –Kᴀᴜʟɪ 〈Tᴀʟᴋ+〉 01:17, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
- Linking Bulbapedia talk:Project Anime → Pokémon anime (diff) for an overview and some explanation about the split and new pages. → SuperPikaPool13 19:24, 1 September 2024 (UTC)