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User talk:ArcToraphim/Archive2: Difference between revisions
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Where does it say that? I know I've read you can't delete messages (except by archiving), but that welcome template takes up a huge amount of real-estate. That should be an exception. It's not like I need to review it every time I go to my talk page. Also, since the welcome template is itself a "message", it's archivable as well. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 18:58, 14 December 2014 (UTC) | Where does it say that? I know I've read you can't delete messages (except by archiving), but that welcome template takes up a huge amount of real-estate. That should be an exception. It's not like I need to review it every time I go to my talk page. Also, since the welcome template is itself a "message", it's archivable as well. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 18:58, 14 December 2014 (UTC) | ||
:And I also noticed you don't have a welcome template. Where's yours? [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 19:00, 14 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
::I joined before the welcome template came into use, so I never had one. On the matter at hand, please review the {{bp|Talk page policy#My user talk page|talk page policy}}, specifically the first sentence of the second paragraph of the linked section. You may wish to archive your current talk page, if you wish to be rid of your welcome template, and you won't need a new one on your new page. But if you do archive your current talk page, the template still needs to remain visible on that page. [[User:ArcToraphim|Kai]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 19:18, 14 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::I've posted at the policy page. Since my talk page is very inactive (I usually don't cause issues and, when I visit someone else's page, I usually seek a reply on that page instead), it seems redundant to create an archive just to store a welcome template, and then basically post a link to my welcome template in the top of the page anyway. I might go ahead and archive the page at the end of the year (to start off 2015) since those are old (the last was in 2013!) anyway, and in that case the welcome message would be restored for archiving with everything else, but for now I just want it removed. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 19:40, 14 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
::::Sorry, you still can't remove your welcome template, even if it'll be restored when you archive it. You're going to have to wait until you archive it to be free of it. [[User:ArcToraphim|Kai]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 19:48, 14 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::::Just looked at your user page, I see you're a senior admin. I did post about this over at the policy page as well (Tiddly linked it in an edit comment, I went there). I just do not understand why the welcome template cannot just be removed. That's the question: '''WHY'''. The policy says, and I'm quoting: | |||
::::::"Don't remove comments, including your initial welcome message. This is for historical purposes and so Bulbapedia staff don't give repeated warnings about the same thing." | |||
:::::Responding to both points. historical purposes. [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:CycloneGU&oldid=1717798 This is historical enough.] I don't see why that doesn't suffice. Second point. Welcome templates are not something that would need to be repetitively posted. So I fail to understand WHY it must stay on the page. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 20:27, 14 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
::::::I'm not a policy maker, nor do I have the power to change a policy. Historically it needs to remain visible so someone doesn't think you never got one, when in fact you did, much like how you aren't allowed to remove comments. So no, it's not enough that it's in the History. And it's not going to change arguing with me. [[User:ArcToraphim|Kai]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 20:53, 14 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
== Zorua, event-exclusive? == | |||
{{u|Solar Dragon}} and I have come to an [[User talk:Glik#Zorua/Zoruark and Deoxys|impasse]] on whether or not Zorua and Zoroark should be considered as having formerly been event-exclusive. Can we get some official ruling? <small>[[User:Glik|glik]]</small><sup>[[User talk:Glik|glak]]</sup> 20:31, 14 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
:Sorry, I'm someone else, just happened to be here. If my opinion is welcomed, Zorua did not have a habitat until OR/AS, but Zoroark is available in Kalos on [[Kalos Route 20|Route 20]] and at the [[Pokémon Village]]. As far as Unova was concerned, I would say that Zorua/Zoroark were available via in-game events. You have to have a Gen. IV event to get either of them; otherwise they remain in their in-game NPC forms and are not capturable. I would call them event exclusive in B/W, but not in B2/W2 because Rood gives you the one at Driftveil when you go through (the one belonging to N that is all 30s in IVs). So my answer is no. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 20:37, 14 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
::Honestly, I can see it going either way. Because Zoroark could be bred, and you did get Zorua's dex entry from being shown a picture, it was not impossible to acquire one without getting the event, as you could gain it through the GTS after seeing the image. You'll probably have to ask someone else for something more definitive. Sorry I can't help much. [[User:ArcToraphim|Kai]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 20:53, 14 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
== Wally == | |||
Just curious what you meant [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Wally_%28game%29&diff=2221692&oldid=2221538 here] by "You couldn't word this any differently to not sound bias, either"? | |||
And no, I'm not going to argue, don't worry. I just thought having one of the highest-leveled Pokémon in the main series was trivial material. And I was not aware of Barry, either. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 01:23, 23 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
:You wrote two sentences. Let me break them down. | |||
:::"Beginning from this battle, Wally has one of the highest leveled Pokémon held by a Trainer in the main series, with his Gallade reaching Lv.81." | |||
:Unnotable for a section that's only supposed to be about the contents of the team, not pointing out something specific about his team. Even if this is where you ended, it would be reverted because it's trivia and certainly does not belong there. Now, if you had put it in the trivia section as | |||
:::"Wally has one of the highest leveled Pokémon held by a Trainer in the main series, with his Gallade reaching Lv.81." | |||
:that would also be removed, under "seconds don't apply". Even without Barry, it's unnotable because Red. But the bias (or maybe I'm looking for a different word) is in the second line. | |||
:::"This puts it on par with Red's Pikachu, though Red's Pikachu at Lv.88 still outranks it." | |||
:It sounds like comparison where no comparison should be made (hence the "bias"), and it reads like it's trying to get around "seconds aren't notable" by appearing encyclopedic when it's not. Put both together and it sounds like you're making Wally/his Gallade to be more than he/it is. It just doesn't belong there or anywhere on Wally's page, and there is no way to reword what you wrote to not be unnotable. [[User:ArcToraphim|Kai]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 02:08, 23 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
::Ah. Thanks for breaking it down. Bias was certainly not the intention. To be honest, I'm surprised there isn't something like a list of the ten strongest Pokémon held by Trainers in the main series, which would make all on that list notable in their trivia sections with linkbacks; however, if there isn't, clearly it's because the only one notable is the highest, which - obviously - is Red's Lv.88 Pikachu. | |||
::And no, I wasn't trying to show Gallade as better than Pikachu. I was just doing strict number comparisons. If it would be taken as being biased, then maybe it is better omitted. Still is the case of the third highest Pokémon in the games; granted, all are from originally playable characters or rivals and thus SHOULD be strong, so maybe it's not notable after all. GF let us down with Lv.66 rival battles in the Gen. V post-game. LOL [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 02:15, 23 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
== TM/HM Moves Contest Data == | |||
Working on a project for this, after which anywhere from 5-15 minutes of work per Pokémon will allow for quick editing of every TM list. I have so far verified most of the moves either using data supplied to Pokémon pages here (an example being {{p|Treecko}}) or independently verified in the game personally. Down to 23 moves remaining, and I had a long bit typed out, but I just answered that question, so I'm now omitting it. I do have other questions, however! | |||
To clarify what I'm up to, I'm creating in my userspace later this evening a blanket list of all 101 TMs (including the old [[TM94]] {{m|Rock Smash}}) and 7 HMs with all contest data; BTW, I should note I plan to have the data reviewed in my userspace before I start blanket editing with it as I would hate to draw red flags editing all the TM lists one at a time (you're welcome to help, and I have other editors in mind as well). The idea is that trimming the list based on the existing data for each Pokémon will quickly create the correct TM list, and then it just needs a few changes for Rock Smash and Dive, and also to add {{m|Secret Power}} to every list (except those who can't learn TMs). | |||
This will turn into a project I request editor assistance with once it's ready to go; I can provide full directions to anyone helping and follow up on the edits to ensure they are done right, and keep a checklist locally (updated periodically) of Pokémon who are completed. Am I correct that such a project request would go in the forum section, or would I get a good response on-wiki somewhere (as in the Editor's Hub)? Should I even do both to maximize response? I do plan to create a few local copies of some Pokémon TM lists before asking for help, as well, and thus get a better idea of the timeframe for this project, and I know I'm away most of Christmas Eve so I will probably only follow up that evening, maybe a few edits, and then really start editing, at the earliest, on Christmas evening itself (if I don't go Boxing Day shopping on Friday - this is a Canadian thing). [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 03:58, 23 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
:UPDATE: [[User:CycloneGU/TMHM6|Posted the page.]] That page should not need any other editing as is, and can serve as a reference portal for copying TM move data into tables. Feel free to offer commentary if you'd like (preferably here or my talk page); I'll create a proper discussion page later if needed, but I don't think it will be necessary. Going to ask a few other editors for opinions in the morning as well, and I can start with some tables for early catch Pokémon (such as [[Hoenn Route 101|Route 101]]) to try it out and figure out timeframes as I have time during the day. Hopefully, by evening, I can spend time editing a bunch of additional Hoenn specimen tables. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 08:23, 23 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
== My Game Update == | |||
I must be the luckiest son-of-a-gun around. | |||
Got those three Pokémon from earlier. Realized I forgot Shoal Cave. Got it. Realized I never evolved a MEditite to clear Medicham from Mt. Pyre. Said screw it. Went to Route 128 and dove, got through with injuries. Healed. Planned (badly) for a team but remembered to take Swampert, who I taught the new Earthquake TM I had just picked up (he ended up using Mud Bomb more, an Egg Move, with two attacks going to the red). I had to revive it once. It fainted and I had a Sharpedo and [[List_of_local_event_Pok%C3%A9mon_distributions_in_Generation_VI#Minato_Mirai_PikachuSurfing Pikachu|Surfing Pikachu]] left. | |||
The tenth Ultra Ball clicked by some small miracle. So I'm off to the Gym after a charge (might be tomorrow), then I'll be spending a lot of time hunting down all of the TMs once I can climb waterfalls (I know Meteor Falls is hiding something). So the edited list review will be happening earlier than planned, and I'll spend a bunch of time grabbing all the TMs (are there any I can't get until the Hall of Fame?) before moving on to editing additional lists myself. I feel breeding babies of everything will let me quickly scan them all in Pokédex order, which is how I'm going through Hoenn. Thank goodness I can clone items that get me a bunch of money to buy those expensive TMs at Lilycove! =D [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 06:33, 25 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
== Breeding lists == | |||
Why did you revert my edits? It doesn't seem factually accurate to exclude those Pokémon from the list when they can get those moves completely legitimately and can pass them down. For example, excluding Persian from the list for Pay Day implies that you have to have to keep Meowth from evolving to pass the move down to Purrloin, even though that's obviously not the case. So why shouldn't the evolutions be included? --[[User:Old School Pokémaster|Old School Pokémaster]] ([[User talk:Old School Pokémaster|talk]]) 19:29, 1 February 2015 (UTC) | |||
:It is, in fact, accurate to only list pokémon who can know the move in its most immediate form. In the case of Pay Day, including Persian implies that Persian can have access to that move no matter what the case, which is incorrect. A Persian might know the move if the Meowth it evolved from has retained it, BUT a Persian who evolved from a Meowth who didn't know Pay Day is not a viable father to pass the move down because it cannot relearn it, ergo making it false advertising that Persian in general can pass it down, because not all Persian have access to it. | |||
:In an effort to keep the lists as simple as possible, we only include parents that are the quickest way to obtain the move under three categories: level-up, TM/MTs, and chain breeding, and they are not intermixed. When chain breeding is necessary, only include the earliest breedable form of an evolutionary line that's quickest in line to pass it down (if a pokémon is compatible to breed with a pokémon that take two fathers and a pokémon that takes three fathers, only include the one that takes two fathers). When breeding from TM or Move Tutor, only include those that can learn the move themselves (so if an evolution can't learn it, we don't list the evolution, which is why I removed Bellossom from Gen II, but you're correct to add it to Gen III and IV, as far as I can tell). That's how we do it here. [[User:ArcToraphim|Kai]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 19:57, 1 February 2015 (UTC) | |||
== Kyogre Pronunciation == | |||
Please cite your source on "Kaiorga" being the official romanization. I've seen sources that show it's ''trademarked'', but not that it's "official." In fact, the "official" romanization seems to simply be "Kyogre." The actual pronunciation of カイオーガ is "Kaiōga." Granted, a long "o" noise in Japanese is often used to represent an "or" noise, but that's never the romanization. The romanization is usually "ou" or "ō." As well, the trademarked pronunciations are often not used, even in Japan. Why would we use the trademark over the hepburn in this case, especially when it makes so little sense linguistically? | |||
--[[User:Valkyrja Magier|Valkyrja Magier]] ([[User talk:Valkyrja Magier|talk]]) 04:05, 3 February 2015 (UTC) | |||
:Me, I don't have one; I just know you tried to put Kaiōga in the tmname field, which is short for "trade mark name", which Kaiōga is not. But unless you can provide a source that shows Japan romanizes カイオーガ as Kyogre, you're going to have a hard time arguing that's the intended romanized spelling. We put the trademark on the frontline to best represent what the Japanese spellings were going for to the best of their linguistic ability. Consider why would Zorua be trademarked and outright romanized as Zorua in Japan and not Zoroa, when that's what the katakana spells? We don't argue with trademarks. | |||
:But you need to argue with someone else about making any sort of change like that. I'm simply holding up precedent. I suggest the forums, specifically the bulbawiki section. [[User:ArcToraphim|Kai]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 04:30, 3 February 2015 (UTC) | |||
::Why does the page not list the transliteration as well, then? I can see (and agree with) your points (and was admittedly unaware of the trade mark name field), but not listing the proper pronunciation seems intentionally misleading. The point of putting rōmaji next to kana is generally to allow the reader to understand how the characters are pronounced, not simply to list an "official" romanization. I don't propose we oust the trademark, but simply list the pronunciation along with it (e.g. "(Japanese: カイオーガ ''Kaiōga'', trade marked ''Kaiorga'')"). --[[User:Valkyrja Magier|Valkyrja Magier]] ([[User talk:Valkyrja Magier|talk]]) 04:52, 3 February 2015 (UTC) | |||
:::In point of fact, we actually don't do "romanizations" as in "how the Japanese is pronounced" very often (mostly in songs). In the "(Japanese: <jp> ''<italics>'') format, the italics are actually supposed to be the translation. See pretty much any page besides Pokemon or characters (e.g., [[Granite Cave]] or [[TM]]). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 05:11, 3 February 2015 (UTC) | |||
::::The romanization ''is'' there. It's in the infobox. If you hover your cursor over the Kaiorga text, a box should appear with Kaiōga.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#AB2813">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#C87365">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#26649C">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#729ABF">ire</span>]] 05:16, 3 February 2015 (UTC) | |||
:::::(What they said, too, but I'm not rewriting this again, so I apologize.) We do list it? The transliteration is in the tooltip of the katakana on the template, in the event the trademark and transliteration are different from one another (see {{p|Bulbasaur}} vs {{p|Clefable}}). Why are they not out in the open? Because the trademark is the more important information being offered; how it's actually spelled is trivia in comparison. The fact that there are romanizations that are trademarked and slapped on merchandise that are not transliterations should tell you that this is what the developers were aiming for, and it wasn't enough for katakana to display alone. We try to honor that as best we can. | |||
:::::Why's it not included in the first line? We try to keep that format as tidy as possibly; throwing in transliterations means pages like {{tc|Team Rocket Grunt|this}} are only bound to get messier. A Pokémon's trademark is as close to a translation as one gets, so that's the format. [[User:ArcToraphim|Kai]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 05:32, 3 February 2015 (UTC) | |||
== Ship == | |||
Is it possible to add Froakie and Sylveon as a ship?-- --[[User:Handmaiden 101|<span style="color:red">Handmaiden 101</span>]] <small>''([[User talk:Handmaiden 101|<span style="color:red">tAlk</span>]])''</small> 23:22, 22 February 2015 (UTC) | |||
:A few things, but we'll start with: As a full article? No. A one-off character and the relationship having no bearing on the episode does not make it particularly notable that it deserves its own article at this time. I'm not entirely sure it's worth being added to [[Shipping:List of anime shippings|here]], either. | |||
:Two: the pairing is called MoonPulseshipping; WaterNymphshipping is the name of Misty/Valerie, so the name cannot stand as is, if any bit of it where to reach the shippingspace. A note for you. | |||
:Three: When editing your comment, don't resign it to change the timestamp. Preferably, you shouldn't be editing your comment so long after you posted it, either, so pray take care not to, next time. [[User:ArcToraphim|Kai]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 19:09, 2 March 2015 (UTC) | |||
::(No editing comments, got it) Ah, I see. Too bad it can't have an article, I just like to include small things like that. I'll change the name. By the way, is there any tips to make a suitable shipping page? I'm new to shipping.-- --[[User:Handmaiden 101|<span style="color:red">Handmaiden 101</span>]] <small>''([[User talk:Handmaiden 101|<span style="color:red">tAlk</span>]])''</small> 22:03, 5 March 2015 (UTC) | |||
== why? == | |||
why did you undo my trivia for ice-type? --[[User:Valehd|<span style="color:cerulean">Valehd</span>]] <small>''([[User talk:Valehd|<span style="color:red">tAlk</span>]])''</small> 22:53, 5 March 2015 (UTC) | |||
== Can't help but wonder. == | |||
A bit old and random, but would [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Me,_Hurray!&diff=304876&oldid=304871 this type of editing] be considered vandalism, or is it okay? Thanks for your time, sorry for the dumb question. :P ----[[User:NateVirus|<span style="color:blue">NateVirus</span>]]<small>''([[User talk:NateVirus|<span style="color:green">Talk</span>]]''|''[[Special:Contributions/NateVirus|<span style="color:red">Contributions</span>]]''</small>) 21:03, 27 April 2016 (UTC) | |||
== Edit request for Mimikyu == | |||
I'm pretty sure the name comes from the phrase "mimic you", not just "mimic". [[User:Technickal|Technickal]] ([[User talk:Technickal|talk]]) 22:06, 19 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
:Per the talk page for this Pokémon, the name origin is heavily disputed. Let's leave it as it is for now, until someone who actually speaks Japanese can chime in. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 04:33, 20 July 2016 (UTC) | |||
== Move Pages == | |||
Can you move-protect {{m|Anchor Shot}} and any other move pages I might be creating in the next few days? I don't have that ability at my level. Cheers. =) [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:15, 19 November 2016 (UTC) | |||
:I'll be move-protecting what needs protecting, don't worry. I gotchu (it's all I do these days lol). [[User:ArcToraphim|Kai]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] | |||
::Haha, no worries. I just saw you had protected a few pages and wante to make sure you got it since I created it yesterday, and it was off the history. =D There are some 24 new signature moves and I have no idea how many of the pages already exist, but I will be creating others as needed. [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 18:12, 19 November 2016 (UTC) | |||
== Capitalization of Internet == | |||
While I'm not invested enough in the topic to get into an extended argument, I thought it might be worth pointing out that there is indeed a debate on the {{wp|capitalization of "Internet"}}, and the usage seems to be gradually changing toward lowercase. In particular, I'd like to highlight that in 2016, the Associated Press and The New York Times both shifted to lowercase, which I personally feel is a significant milestone. Since this is a topic for which usage is likely to continue to change in the near future, would it be prudent to avoid confusion and have the staff make an executive decision one way or the other and add it to Bulbapedia's style guide? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 19:04, 21 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
:Shrug. If you want to run that query, you need to ask another staff member, though seriously, don't make it sound like it's a big thing. But imo I think until a consensus is reached by grammarians, it should remain capitalized. [[User:ArcToraphim|Kai]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 19:38, 21 January 2017 (UTC) | |||