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Talk:Mewtwo (M01): Difference between revisions
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So we know that the Mewtwo in [[M16]] is not this Mewtwo. I suggest that this page be moved to "Mewtwo (M01)". This is not the best description, as this Mewtwo actually debuted in [[EP063]] and also appears in [[EP065]] and ''[[Mewtwo Returns]]'' (''[[The Uncut Story of Mewtwo's Origin]]'' and ''[[The Birth of Mewtwo]]'' as well if you want to count those). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 13:52, 14 July 2013 (UTC) | So we know that the Mewtwo in [[M16]] is not this Mewtwo. I suggest that this page be moved to "Mewtwo (M01)". This is not the best description, as this Mewtwo actually debuted in [[EP063]] and also appears in [[EP065]] and ''[[Mewtwo Returns]]'' (''[[The Uncut Story of Mewtwo's Origin]]'' and ''[[The Birth of Mewtwo]]'' as well if you want to count those). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 13:52, 14 July 2013 (UTC) | ||
:How about "Mewtwo (Kanto)"? It was created/born in Kanto, and only migrated to Johto (much like any other recurring character who shows up in a different region). Also, what says M16 Mewtwo is different? I keep hearing this, but not any evidence that says so. Just curious. --<font face="Segoe UI"><span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em">[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|<font color="red">IWanna</font>]]BeThe[[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|<font color="white">VeryBest</font>]]</span></font> 17:20, 14 July 2013 (UTC) | :How about "Mewtwo (Kanto)"? It was created/born in Kanto, and only migrated to Johto (much like any other recurring character who shows up in a different region). Also, what says M16 Mewtwo is different? I keep hearing this, but not any evidence that says so. Just curious. --<font face="Segoe UI"><span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em">[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|<font color="red">IWanna</font>]]BeThe[[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|<font color="white">VeryBest</font>]]</span></font> 17:20, 14 July 2013 (UTC) | ||
::[[ | ::''[[Mewtwo — Prologue to Awakening]]'' and M16 apparently did, and the director has confirmed it is a different one. As for Mewtwo (Kanto); it could work, but it does also move to Johto which makes me unsure (although it's just as bad as calling it Mewtwo (M01) anyway, since they both ignore ''Mewtwo Returns''). The other Mewtwo is currently at Mewtwo (M16), despite debuting in Mewtwo — Prologue to Awakening, so I suppose it could also benefit from being Mewtwo (Unova). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 17:34, 14 July 2013 (UTC) | ||
:::Thanks. I'm really interested to see how they explain why another Mewtwo exists. In other news, I vote for "Mewtwo (Kanto)" and "Mewtwo (Unova)". --<font face="Segoe UI"><span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em">[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|<font color="red">IWanna</font>]]BeThe[[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|<font color="white">VeryBest</font>]]</span></font> 18:58, 14 July 2013 (UTC) | :::Thanks. I'm really interested to see how they explain why another Mewtwo exists. In other news, I vote for "Mewtwo (Kanto)" and "Mewtwo (Unova)". --<font face="Segoe UI"><span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em">[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|<font color="red">IWanna</font>]]BeThe[[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|<font color="white">VeryBest</font>]]</span></font> 18:58, 14 July 2013 (UTC) | ||
::::I think tagging them by region isn't correct, since perhaps the first Mewtwo was in Kanto, and the second Mewtwo was in Unova, but the first Mewtwo was also in Johto in a role just as presiding as its movie role [which is also the reason arguing off (M01) and (M16)]. So what about instead Mewtwo (original series) and Mewtwo (Black and White)? Or just (OS) and (BW). It's accurate to their debute. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 20:05, 14 July 2013 (UTC) | ::::I think tagging them by region isn't correct, since perhaps the first Mewtwo was in Kanto, and the second Mewtwo was in Unova, but the first Mewtwo was also in Johto in a role just as presiding as its movie role [which is also the reason arguing off (M01) and (M16)]. So what about instead Mewtwo (original series) and Mewtwo (Black and White)? Or just (OS) and (BW). It's accurate to their debute. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 20:05, 14 July 2013 (UTC) | ||
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:::The cameo is mentioned in the article because (other than regular characters, who appear in most or all episodes) we mention every appearance of a character for thoroughness. Appearances that are just a few seconds long and aren't part of the storyline, in my opinion, aren't significant enough to worry about if they make disambiguation tougher. We've made it clear that "Mewtwo (M01)" is inadequate; if you insist that "Mewtwo (original series)" is inadequate because "Jirachi: Wish Maker" must be included, what title do you propose for it? I can't think of an elegant title that covers it, but if you're arguing this point, you should try to have something in mind, not just be a devil's advocate. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 01:13, 16 July 2013 (UTC) | :::The cameo is mentioned in the article because (other than regular characters, who appear in most or all episodes) we mention every appearance of a character for thoroughness. Appearances that are just a few seconds long and aren't part of the storyline, in my opinion, aren't significant enough to worry about if they make disambiguation tougher. We've made it clear that "Mewtwo (M01)" is inadequate; if you insist that "Mewtwo (original series)" is inadequate because "Jirachi: Wish Maker" must be included, what title do you propose for it? I can't think of an elegant title that covers it, but if you're arguing this point, you should try to have something in mind, not just be a devil's advocate. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 01:13, 16 July 2013 (UTC) | ||
:Devil's advocate? I'm not contradicting you, merely I feel that this Mewtwo should be categorized under the first movie which itself is eponymous with. "Mewtwo Returns" isn't a film, it's a special. Calling it "Mewtwo (M01)" still implies it's the Mewtwo of the original series, just in a more specific manner. Do you understand now? [[User:Hitmonchan107|Hitmonchan107]] ([[User talk:Hitmonchan107|talk]]) 01:19, 16 July 2013 (UTC) | :Devil's advocate? I'm not contradicting you, merely I feel that this Mewtwo should be categorized under the first movie which itself is eponymous with. "Mewtwo Returns" isn't a film, it's a special. Calling it "Mewtwo (M01)" still implies it's the Mewtwo of the original series, just in a more specific manner. Do you understand now? [[User:Hitmonchan107|Hitmonchan107]] ([[User talk:Hitmonchan107|talk]]) 01:19, 16 July 2013 (UTC) | ||
::But that's just it: we shouldn't have to ''imply'' when we can outright ''state''. Although "Mewtwo Returns" and the anime episodes aren't films, they are still important media that must be included. (The same for | ::But that's just it: we shouldn't have to ''imply'' when we can outright ''state''. Although "Mewtwo Returns" and the anime episodes aren't films, they are still important media that must be included. (The same for Mewtwo — Prologue to Awakening and the other Mewtwo, which also needs its article renamed.) "Mewtwo (M01)" leaves out everything but M01 and, by implication, suggests that it has had no other appearances, while "Mewtwo (original series)" does not leave out any appearances (the cameo notwithstanding) and accurately describes every time that it has appeared, ''including'' M01. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 01:26, 16 July 2013 (UTC) | ||
:::But what other roles did it have other than two cameos in the anime series? [[M1]] is where Mewtwo's role became important and focal to the storyline and unfurled its mysterious past, alliance with Giovanni and hatred for humanity. Sure, the (OS) label covers all of its appearances, but the (M1) label focused more on the character, making it less ambiguous. [[User:Hitmonchan107|Hitmonchan107]] ([[User talk:Hitmonchan107|talk]]) 01:29, 16 July 2013 (UTC) | :::But what other roles did it have other than two cameos in the anime series? [[M1]] is where Mewtwo's role became important and focal to the storyline and unfurled its mysterious past, alliance with Giovanni and hatred for humanity. Sure, the (OS) label covers all of its appearances, but the (M1) label focused more on the character, making it less ambiguous. [[User:Hitmonchan107|Hitmonchan107]] ([[User talk:Hitmonchan107|talk]]) 01:29, 16 July 2013 (UTC) | ||
::::"What other roles did it have?" Have you forgotten Mewtwo Returns already? Mewtwo is an equally important part of both M01 and Mewtwo Returns, and favoring one over the other just because it was released in a different format makes no sense to me. Like I've said before — in my opinion, the "M01" tag is ''too'' specific because it completely ignores everything else this Mewtwo has appeared in. Emphasizing recognizability at the expense of correctness should never be done. By now I think we're starting to talk in circles and I've repeated all my reasons several times, so I won't be responding any further. I think my previous posts speak pretty well for themselves as to my reasons for preferring "Mewtwo (original series)" over "Mewtwo (M01)". [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 01:43, 16 July 2013 (UTC) | ::::"What other roles did it have?" Have you forgotten Mewtwo Returns already? Mewtwo is an equally important part of both M01 and Mewtwo Returns, and favoring one over the other just because it was released in a different format makes no sense to me. Like I've said before — in my opinion, the "M01" tag is ''too'' specific because it completely ignores everything else this Mewtwo has appeared in. Emphasizing recognizability at the expense of correctness should never be done. By now I think we're starting to talk in circles and I've repeated all my reasons several times, so I won't be responding any further. I think my previous posts speak pretty well for themselves as to my reasons for preferring "Mewtwo (original series)" over "Mewtwo (M01)". [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 01:43, 16 July 2013 (UTC) | ||