Talk:Selene (game)

The Protagonist's Name

Since the female player character doesn't have an official name, so why are we referring to her as Moon? I understand that with past Pokémon titles, some of us called the player characters what the names of the games were, but the names eventually changed. And while the male protagonist may be called Sun in the Special Demo, does that mean we should call the female protagonist Moon? (Think about the ΩRαS Demo and Orlando). So (I'm looking for the community's vote), should we keep the name as it is or change it until further notice from the Pokémon Company? MaddoxTheMudkip (talk) 00:48, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

This has already been discussed here. By staff decision the names we use are now Sun and Moon. If you have any thing to add please do. --Raltseye prata med mej 01:11, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

image

Now we confirmed that the official called her Mizuki. So should this page be named to Selene? (And Sun's page named Elio (Yo)) E9310103838 (talk) 01:40, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Seems cool with me. I can see where they chose Mizuki and Yō from - with the way the former name is spelt according to what I've seen both on the main page and elsewhere, the zu is a tsu with a dakuten rather than a su so it's a corrupted tsuki; and Yō is probably derived from taiyō. Honestly, I'm not really sure if I've seen the name Mizuki spelt that way anywhere else given how rarely used that instance of zu is. Azureprism (talk) 02:26, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

It's up to staff to decide. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 02:44, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

For the sake of posterity, here is the original source. I agree with renaming the Moon and Sun game pages to Selene and Elio, too. JB2448 (talk) 05:04, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

And again, for the sake of posterity, here are the videos with timecodes that the Japanese and English canon names are used in: 【公式】『ポケットモンスター サン・ムーン』 最新ゲーム映像（6/15公開）at 1:10 and "Meet New Pokémon and Discover Battle Royals in Pokémon Sun and Pokémon Moon!" at 1:06 JB2448 (talk) 11:27, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

I agree with moving both pages, either to Selene/Elio (my preferred choice, as these are officially-used equivalents) or to Mizuki/Yō (if we want to stay at the safe side). And before anyone says that moving Sun's page is an assumption, then again, so is using "Sun". And since the girl character is officially known as Mizuki, then it pretty much debunks the assumption that boy's name is "Sun". Sun and Mizuki/Selene just don't add up. So, moving them both is the only way. --Maxim (talk) 12:35, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

I also agree in that this should be renamed as either "Selene" or "Mizuki". The latter is 100% confirmed now, so there's no reason to keep it as Moon. Sun should also be moved for consistency's sake, since either "Elio" or "Yo" are more valid assumptions than Sun. --Gabo 2oo (talk) 13:13, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Don't see a reason why not to change it, Selene/Mizuki and Elio/Yo it is. --DanyyelTR (talk) 18:56, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Quite curious as to how that makes their names Selene and Elio for English. I understand the Mizkui situation, but where does Selene, Yo, and Elio come from? (and I'll be quite honest I don't like the names Selene or Elio either). This is mostly because they ARE still promotional names like Orlando, Blair, Anna, etc. which means the only official name is Mizuki. I'll be fine with Yo if it's considered the equivalent to it. English name should stay as Moon for now in my honest opinion. Also for the purpose of trivia and the name itself, Mizuki translates to waterwood (a type of tree that sprouts flowers keeping in line with the flower theme of the characters) and is a common female Japanese name meaning "beautiful moon, which I still think can be translated to just "Moon" for the English readers.TrainerSplash (talk) 23:11, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

You can check the video above that's where Mizuki/Selene and Yo/Elio come from. E9310103838 (talk) 00:38, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

I've stated that those are still promotional names, that video doesn't showcase the Japanese names.We can't use promotional names in such a way because they are almost always inaccurate, the only official use of any of the names is Mizuki used in in ARTFX J figurine. Otherwise they should remain as Sun and Moon any other time. I say we wait until to get official English and Japanese usage outside of trailers (aside from the name Mizuki) and keep them as Sun and Moon. They have a figma figure of her too, and we often get western releases of figmas, so I say wait until we get a translation of the figure or if possible wait and see if the two protags reappear/renamed in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon. TrainerSplash (talk) 01:03, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

The video have Japanese and English... E9310103838 (talk) 01:19, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

TrainerSplash; as you know, we already have the name Mizuki confirmed. Now, thanks to the trailers, we know for sure that Selene is the English equivalent for Mizuki. As for the male protagonist, Yo is the male equivalent for Mizuki, and Elio is the English equivalent for Yo. That's where all the four names come from. If you insist in only official usage, then we still have to move this to Mizuki, and Selene is still as valid as Moon because both haven't been confirmed at all in English media. Perhaps we could move this to Mizuki, then wait for the figma figure and see which name they use for the English release, if they do one. --Gabo 2oo (talk) 00:00, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

While Mizuki may be her official name in Japanese, in English, Selene is only used officially once. As per the MOS, an official English name takes precedence over a Japanese name. Since Sun/Moon were used extensively during the pre-release period, they currently take precedence as the most commonly used English names for the characters in official material. There's no point in moving this now if an English release of the figure or USUM change things up. --Abcboy (talk) 00:52, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

That's a pretty bad justification. Why update the legendary Pokemon article right now if USUM may change that? Why change the anime article if future episodes may change that? We should care about what's happening right now, and currently Mizuki Is the official name of the character in Japanese, with absolutely no reason to doubt Selene is the official English name. Keeping the article as Sun / Moon would be deceiving visitors when we all know those names are not real. Also, this is about the SM main characters, not the USUM main characters, which as far as we know could even be two totally different characters. Josephvb10 (talk) 20:16, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Just because X translates to Y, that does not mean that if X is official, so must Y be. The English side can do whatever it wants, we will NOT presume for them. We can wait. Tiddlywinks (talk) 20:58, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Sun/Moon are officially used, including in that same video in which Elio/Selene is used only once. Sun/Moon are not fake or misleading names. --Abcboy (talk) 22:58, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Is this STILL being argued over?! I thought we settled this dispute a long time ago! Toolen (talk) 00:19, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Now we confirm Selene = Mizuki. http://www.goodsmile.info/en/product/6782/figma+Selene.html E9310103838 (talk) 12:07, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Welcome to Bulbapedia. Somehow, even after the Selene Figma was announced yesterday and what is blatantly stated by the games' data and promotional material, it's probably going to take further proof that the male protagonist's equivalent names to Mizuki and Selene before the staff approve the change despite those factors and general consensus literally everywhere else, and I have no clue what the point of going to such extreme forms of mistake avoidance is. Azureprism (talk) 15:41, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Regardless of the Figma figure, Selene and Elio are names related to these characters' appearances in Sun & Moon. Now that they have new prerelease names for USUM, Ailey and Ray should be the names we move them to if at all, since these are the most recent names. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 15:58, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

But they are considered as the same roles. If they use different names, are they different roles? E9310103838 (talk) 16:03, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 16:05, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

That's like saying that Brendan and May's articles should be renamed to Orlando and Anna just because some of ORAS's promotional materials and the demo called them that. If you're going to go that route, see if all instances of Elio and Selene hidden in SM's coding are changed to Ailey and Ray in USUM, and if they aren't just rename their articles to Elio and Selene like what should have been done following the Figma release, or even back when that first figure was released nearly three months ago. Azureprism (talk) 19:36, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Orlando/Anna is a terrible argument, the characters were still referred to as Brendan/May within ORAS, that easily overrides the other candidates. Tiddlywinks (talk) 19:46, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

And were there any instances of them being called Brendan and May in ORAS prior to their release? Azureprism (talk) 20:07, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

They were known as Brendan and May, only as a rival in ORAS prior to their release, like what they do with Calem and Serena. (Although not in the official website directly pointed out to their name but on the screenshot shows.) E9310103838 (talk) 00:21, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Azureprism, care to point out where Elio/Selene are used in game data and coding? Regardless, USUM comes out in the less than a month. It doesn't hurt to wait. --超龍_「Chao」 00:54, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

You could easily argue that only the rival characters in ORAS were Brendan/May, where as the default name for the protagonist is Orlanda/Anna. But I don't see the point of arguing this, the official release by Goodsmile and Nintendo refer to this character as Selene. Anything else being used is no different from other promotional material that's used other names for various characters. If the USUM version turns out to be different, then it can be changed, but at the very least Selene is more official than Moon and everything so far has stated that this is still the same story and characters from the original Sun & Moon.Five (talk) 11:04, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Move and split

May I please rename the page and split it if that's okay? SaturnMario, his talk and his contributions 23:04, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Why? It seems like "Moon" and "Ailey" are still going to be the same character. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 04:34, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

Since Selene did as a character at the official indeed... I think it is necessary to renamed or splited the page (and Elio, too). E9310103838 (talk) 23:51, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Since Silvally line finally joined the legendary Pokémon, should this page also consider renaming? E9310103838 (talk) 06:14, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Those topics have no relation. Tiddlywinks (talk) 06:16, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

What I mean is that since Silvally line added to the legendary Pokémon page because of official statements, why does the official indeed say that the default name of the character, this page has not been renamed? E9310103838 (talk) 06:37, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Again, no relation. Just because they've officially confirmed that Type: Null and Silvally are legendary, does 'not mean they've officially confirmed Moon's (and to an extent, Sun's) names.--ForceFire 06:46, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

They are indeed confirmed that the above discussion has list of sources and even has the English sources. E9310103838 (talk) 06:51, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Um, what?

So what are we mostly agreeing on? Selene/Elio or Ailey/Ray? And where did Ailey/Ray come from? - unsigned comment from Mira Zannah (talk • contribs)

Nobody seems to be agreeing on anything, and this isn't the kind of thing that gets decided by consensus anyway; page moves are decided exclusively by staff. Ailey/Ray are the names used in pre-release media for USUM (screenshots, promotional videos, etc). Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 16:55, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Now we have two Figma/Figure products called Mizuki (=Selene) and have been pre-sale. E9310103838 (talk) 10:41, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Are the data miners done with USUM yet? Because it would probably be in there somewhere, right? --Mira Zannah 13:22, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Mizuki

On top of multiple pieces of merchandise using the name, we now have the Nintendo Dream magazine using it *and* with her USUM design to boot. Surely this is now as close to canon as we're going to get.Five (talk) 18:15, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

It is not likely we will use a Japanese name for the page's title. Tiddlywinks (talk) 20:39, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

At least this should be the "suggested moved" to Selene currently. E9310103838 (talk) 14:41, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Yeah I think so. Mira Zannah 18:02, 22 February 2018 (UTC)