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:Alphabetical would be the best default, really, so people can actually find a given nature easily. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:20, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
:Alphabetical would be the best default, really, so people can actually find a given nature easily. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:20, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
::I'm not sure, I think filtering it by actual effect, as it is now, is probably the most tidy and effective. But I think it'd make sense to move all the neutral natures together. I'm not really sure if there's a reasoning behind spacing them out evenly like it is right now. [[User:Dada|Dada]] ([[User talk:Dada|talk]]) 18:41, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
:::I think the current layout is based on internal ordering. I believe the neutral Natures actually increase and decrease the same stat, which is why they fit in the place they do. It has no real functional purpose, but I think the current order is the best. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 18:47, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
::::The color coding gives people a solid visual cue to recognize which Natures boost a given stat or hinder a given stat, but there's absolutely no way to hint where a given Nature is in a non-alphabetized list. That's why the list should default to an alphabetized order. That way, people can use the colors for a quick glance, or sort the table if they really want. With the colors, sorting the stats should not be the first priority; making it easier for people to find a given Nature should be the priority. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:53, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
::::Why should internal ordering really be a priority? Plenty of things internally ordered way differently than how we make them appear here on the site. The real priority is presenting the order in a way that makes the information the most accessible. As an aside, I think the chief purpose of this table isn't so people can look up a specific nature, but so people can make a determination of which nature they want for their breeding project. In that case, the order I listed seems like the most efficient one. [[User:Dada|Dada]] ([[User talk:Dada|talk]]) 10:14, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::And you're completely glossing over one of my points: the color-coding gives people a fine way to identify which Natures do what for a given stat even when not ordered by stats. That makes organizing them (by default) by stat redundant, certainly when compared to the needs of people who may want to look up a given Nature instead.
:::::I mean, just look at your table above. You can't tell me it's not easy to identify which Natures hinder Defense. The color coding should be all that's necessary, and if someone ''really'' wants to, they can sort the table by stat themselves. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 10:29, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::It seems more useful as it is; the color-coding doesn't work for color-blind people and it may be a bit iffy even for those who aren't. And it can be sorted alphabetically if the user wishes, as well. --[[User:WyndFox|<span style="color:#992232">Wynd</span>]] [[User talk:WyndFox|<span style="color:2B65EC">Fox</span>]] 23:40, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::Alphabetical ordering is really only a good idea when there is no other way to order the list. Here, it is far more useful to have a list where you can look up which stat is boosted by which Nature than an alphabetical list. The current order is the order guidebooks use, and I believe it is also the internal order. If someone does wish to have an alphabetical list, the table is sortable (and it doesn't have all the complications of making a sortable table result in the current one). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 15:18, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::"''Alphabetical ordering is really only a good idea when there is no other way to order the list.''" I don't at all agree with that. And I'm a little mystified that no one else (willing to speak up) agrees with me. But since no one agrees with my point of view, I don't figure there's any way for me to convince anyone my way really is best.
::::::::Also: It's actually very simple to make a table sort whichever way you want. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:41, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::The table on the article is sortable.  It can be sorted into alphabetical order by clicking on the column header.  The problem is that you cannot get the order on the article through sorting, while you can easily make the table sorted by alphabetical order.  Changing it to your suggestion removes a possible viewpoint from the article, while your suggestion can already be accomplished on the current table.  --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 09:39, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::'*sigh* Either you weren't paying attention or you can't just take me at my word. Alright, challenge accepted. Sort this:
{| class="sortable" style="{{roundy|15px}} background: #a0a0c4; {{roundy}}; border: 5px solid #bbbbe8; margin:auto"
|-
! style="background: #ccf; {{roundytl|5px}}" | Nature
! style="background: #ccf" | Japanese
! style="background: #ccf" data-sort-type="number" | Increased stat
! style="background: #ccf" | Decreased stat
! style="background: #ccf" | Favorite flavor
! style="background: #ccf; {{roundytr|5px}}" | Disliked flavor
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Adamant
| いじっぱり
| data-sort-value=4 style="background: #{{Attack color light}}" | Attack
| data-sort-value=16 style="background: #{{Special Attack color light}}" | Sp. Attack
| data-sort-value=4 style="background: #{{Cool color light}}" | Spicy
| data-sort-value=16 style="background: #{{Beauty color light}}" | Dry
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Bashful
| てれや
| data-sort-value=19 | —
| data-sort-value=19 | —
| data-sort-value=19 | —
| data-sort-value=19 | —
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Bold
| ずぶとい
| data-sort-value=6 style="background: #{{Defense color light}}" | Defense
| data-sort-value=2 style="background: #{{Attack color light}}" | Attack
| data-sort-value=6 style="background: #{{Tough color light}}" | Sour
| data-sort-value=2 style="background: #{{Cool color light}}" | Spicy
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Brave
| ゆうかん
| data-sort-value=3 style="background: #{{Attack color light}}" | Attack
| data-sort-value=11 style="background: #{{Speed color light}}" | Speed
| data-sort-value=3 style="background: #{{Cool color light}}" | Spicy
| data-sort-value=11 style="background: #{{Cute color light}}" | Sweet
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Calm
| おだやか
| data-sort-value=21 style="background: #{{Special Defense color light}}" | Sp. Defense
| data-sort-value=5 style="background: #{{Attack color light}}" | Attack
| data-sort-value=21 style="background: #{{Smart color light}}" | Bitter
| data-sort-value=5 style="background: #{{Cool color light}}" | Spicy
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Careful
| しんちょう
| data-sort-value=24 style="background: #{{Special Defense color light}}" | Sp. Defense
| data-sort-value=20 style="background: #{{Special Attack color light}}" | Sp. Attack
| data-sort-value=24 style="background: #{{Smart color light}}" | Bitter
| data-sort-value=20 style="background: #{{Beauty color light}}" | Dry
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Docile
| すなお
| data-sort-value=7 | —
| data-sort-value=7 | —
| data-sort-value=7 | —
| data-sort-value=7 | —
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Gentle
| おとなしい
| data-sort-value=22 style="background: #{{Special Defense color light}}" | Sp. Defense
| data-sort-value=10 style="background: #{{Defense color light}}" | Defense
| data-sort-value=22 style="background: #{{Smart color light}}" | Bitter
| data-sort-value=10 style="background: #{{Tough color light}}" | Sour
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Hardy
| がんばりや
| data-sort-value=1 | —
| data-sort-value=1 | —
| data-sort-value=1 | —
| data-sort-value=1 | —
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Hasty
| せっかち
| data-sort-value=12 style="background: #{{Speed color light}}" | Speed
| data-sort-value=8 style="background: #{{Defense color light}}" | Defense
| data-sort-value=12 style="background: #{{Cute color light}}" | Sweet
| data-sort-value=8 style="background: #{{Tough color light}}" | Sour
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Impish
| わんぱく
| data-sort-value=9 style="background: #{{Defense color light}}" | Defense
| data-sort-value=17 style="background: #{{Special Attack color light}}" | Sp. Attack
| data-sort-value=9 style="background: #{{Tough color light}}" | Sour
| data-sort-value=17 style="background: #{{Beauty color light}}" | Dry
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Jolly
| ようき
| data-sort-value=14 style="background: #{{Speed color light}}" | Speed
| data-sort-value=18 style="background: #{{Special Attack color light}}" | Sp. Attack
| data-sort-value=14 style="background: #{{Cute color light}}" | Sweet
| data-sort-value=18 style="background: #{{Beauty color light}}" | Dry
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Lax
| のうてんき
| data-sort-value=10 style="background: #{{Defense color light}}" | Defense
| data-sort-value=22 style="background: #{{Special Defense color light}}" | Sp. Defense
| data-sort-value=10 style="background: #{{Tough color light}}" | Sour
| data-sort-value=22 style="background: #{{Smart color light}}" | Bitter
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Lonely
| さみしがり
| data-sort-value=2 style="background: #{{Attack color light}}" | Attack
| data-sort-value=6 style="background: #{{Defense color light}}" | Defense
| data-sort-value=2 style="background: #{{Cool color light}}" | Spicy
| data-sort-value=6 style="background: #{{Tough color light}}" | Sour
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Mild
| おっとり
| data-sort-value=17 style="background: #{{Special Attack color light}}" | Sp. Attack
| data-sort-value=9 style="background: #{{Defense color light}}" | Defense
| data-sort-value=17 style="background: #{{Beauty color light}}" | Dry
| data-sort-value=9 style="background: #{{Tough color light}}" | Sour
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Modest
| ひかえめ
| data-sort-value=16 style="background: #{{Special Attack color light}}" | Sp. Attack
| data-sort-value=4 style="background: #{{Attack color light}}" | Attack
| data-sort-value=16 style="background: #{{Beauty color light}}" | Dry
| data-sort-value=4 style="background: #{{Cool color light}}" | Spicy
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Naive
| むじゃき
| data-sort-value=15 style="background: #{{Speed color light}}" | Speed
| data-sort-value=23 style="background: #{{Special Defense color light}}" | Sp. Defense
| data-sort-value=15 style="background: #{{Cute color light}}" | Sweet
| data-sort-value=23 style="background: #{{Smart color light}}" | Bitter
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Naughty
| やんちゃ
| data-sort-value=5 style="background: #{{Attack color light}}" | Attack
| data-sort-value=21 style="background: #{{Special Defense color light}}" | Sp. Defense
| data-sort-value=5 style="background: #{{Cool color light}}" | Spicy
| data-sort-value=21 style="background: #{{Smart color light}}" | Bitter
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Quiet
| れいせい
| data-sort-value=18 style="background: #{{Special Attack color light}}" | Sp. Attack
| data-sort-value=14 style="background: #{{Speed color light}}" | Speed
| data-sort-value=18 style="background: #{{Beauty color light}}" | Dry
| data-sort-value=14 style="background: #{{Cute color light}}" | Sweet
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Quirky
| きまぐれ
| data-sort-value=25 | —
| data-sort-value=25 | —
| data-sort-value=25 | —
| data-sort-value=25 | —
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Rash
| うっかりや
| data-sort-value=20 style="background: #{{Special Attack color light}}" | Sp. Attack
| data-sort-value=24 style="background: #{{Special Defense color light}}" | Sp. Defense
| data-sort-value=20 style="background: #{{Beauty color light}}" | Dry
| data-sort-value=24 style="background: #{{Smart color light}}" | Bitter
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Relaxed
| のんき
| data-sort-value=8 style="background: #{{Defense color light}}" | Defense
| data-sort-value=12 style="background: #{{Speed color light}}" | Speed
| data-sort-value=8 style="background: #{{Tough color light}}" | Sour
| data-sort-value=12 style="background: #{{Cute color light}}" | Sweet
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Sassy
| なまいき
| data-sort-value=23 style="background: #{{Special Defense color light}}" | Sp. Defense
| data-sort-value=15 style="background: #{{Speed color light}}" | Speed
| data-sort-value=23 style="background: #{{Smart color light}}" | Bitter
| data-sort-value=15 style="background: #{{Cute color light}}" | Sweet
|- style="background: #ddf"
! Serious
| まじめ
| data-sort-value=13 | —
| data-sort-value=13 | —
| data-sort-value=13 | —
| data-sort-value=13 | —
|- style="background: #ddf"
! style="{{roundybl|5px}}" | Timid
| おくびょう
| data-sort-value=11 style="background: #{{Speed color light}}" | Speed
| data-sort-value=3 style="background: #{{Attack color light}}" | Attack
| data-sort-value=11 style="background: #{{Cute color light}}" | Sweet
| data-sort-value=3 style="background: #{{Cool color light}}; {{roundybr|5px}}" | Spicy
|}
::::::::::Fun fact: the ''current'' table won't even sort to this order (I don't mean the default alphabetized order above). It only looks like it does initially, and never after. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 11:32, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::::Before I continue, I would like to note that this is a debate about a table.  Just saying.
:::::::::::I have clicked on the words at the top of each columns in your table.  They can be sorted into twelve layouts, one of them being the default layout.  Looking at the table on the article, it can be sorted into twelve layouts plus an initial layout that must be refreshed to appear again.  Both tables use almost the exact coding.  The only difference that I can see is the lines called "data-sort-value=", which sorts your table into the table on the article, which I can admit would be a possible advantage.  Am I correct to believe that sums everything up?  --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 03:24, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::::The point is that the Abilities have a natural order (the current one used), and that is also the most useful order (perhaps excluding the neutral Abilities that are inserted between the other Abilities). I see no reason why it should be changed to alphabetical order, particularly when you can easily sort to that (while you cannot really expect the table to sort to the current order by selecting a specific column). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 06:43, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::::::@Super goku: I made that table in response to your comment "''you cannot get the order on the article through sorting''", to prove that statement false, and for no other reason. That table sorts to "the order on the article"; your statement was wrong. (I did go a bit above and beyond, but that was just my perfectionism.)
:::::::::::::@SnorlaxMonster: You yourself admitted above that that very "natural" order "has no real functional purpose"... (I agree with this.) So, "''The point is that the Abilities have a natural order''", which "has no real functional purpose"...yet it's still valuable? Only superficially, I think (by "virtue" of it ''being'' "natural"). [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 12:21, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
Including the neutral Natures intermittently has no real function purpose. Listing them by stats by default has a huge functional purpose (far more than alphabetical). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 13:15, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
:<s>Addding, the current internal-order used on the article's table does show what no other sorted table can: that Hardy is the neutral Nature for Attack, Docile is Defense, etc, and the tables displays this without a need for some unnecessary footnote, hidden table information, or making it confusing by making them display Att+/Att-, etc, and ''that'' is valuable, even if you believe it's not</s>. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 13:52, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
::EDIT: Ah, okay, I see, you did make it display that way. Cool. You aren't good at explaining that, Tiddly. Anyway, the more important information is which stats are where, not the names; being able to rearrange the table back to the article's default is handy, however. For quick-refs, yes, alphabetical serves the purpose, but for display, it's about the stats, and that's why the current order is more encyclopedic than an alphabetical arrangement. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 14:03, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
== Portuguese name ==
Reads this ideal: adds the portuguese names of natures in In other languages section.
*Adamant: inflexível
*Bashful: tímido
*Bold: arrojado
*Brave: valente
*Calm: Calmo
*Careful: Cuidadoso 
*Docile: Dócil
*Gentle: gentil
*Hardy: destemido
*Hasty: apressado
*Impish: endiabrado
*Jolly: alegre
*Lax: frouxo
*Lonely: solitário
*Mild: Brando
*Modest: Modesto
*Naive: ingénuo
*Naughty: malcriado/Desobediente
*Quiet: Quieto
*Quirky: Peculiar (the best translation, but i think that isn't exactly this)
*Relaxed: relaxado
*Sassy: petulante
*Serious: sério
*Timid: tímido
--[[User:Blacknigth|Blacknigth]] ([[User talk:Blacknigth|talk]]) 15:12, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
:I'm not sure what you meant by "ideal" here, but we don't add fan translations. The list in this page is only for official terms taken from the game. --[[User:神奇超龍|<font color="#2B547E">'''超龍'''</font>]]<sub><small>「'''[[User talk:神奇超龍|Chao]]'''」</small></sub> 01:04, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
::If I may be so bold as to try to clarify the top line of Blacknigth's comment, "ideal" was probably a synonym for Nature. Anyway, even if we don't add these translations to the article, I think it's probably a pretty good place to start since they're probably pretty close to the games' official terms (as any translator gives several different translations for a lot of different words, particularly adjectives). [[User:Superbreeder|Super]][[User talk:Superbreeder|breeder]] 08:52, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
:::I appreciate the effort but the thing is that there are no official Pokémon games in Portuguese or Brazilian Portuguese. I'd know, I'm Portuguese myself. I would've added translations long ago if it weren't for the fact that they wouldn't be official. [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 10:23, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
== Position of neutral natures in the second (compact) table ==
I personally think that the five neutral natures should be located in the fivetions that are empty in the main grid, with (neutral) placed just after the name of the nature. This would reduce the size of the page. Which one goes in which slot can be determined by the order of the natures when selecting one to sort by in the PC, which is the order used by the big table by default. In addition to reduced page size, it also would make the compact table more compact. [[User:PartHunter|PartHunter]] ([[User talk:PartHunter|talk]]) 12:13, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
I do not think because it would mean that the nature decreases and increases by 10% statistics: 1.1 * 0.9 = 0.99 = 99% not 100% --[[User:Dominikololo|Dominikololo]] ([[User talk:Dominikololo|talk]]) 12:56, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
:They do both increase and decrease, it's just that in both cases it is 10% of the original, not 10% of the modified value. <code>x + x*0.1 - x*0.1 = x</code> --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 13:19, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
== Nature determinant ==
''In Generations III and IV, Nature is determined by the Pokémon's personality value.''
In Sapphire (and possibly Ruby), instead of being determined by pokemon's personality value, wild pokemon's nature is determined even before the personality value is calculated. In fact, personality value is recalculated if it doesn't match the pokemon's nature. Is pokemon's nature a mere product of RNG, or is there any other deciding factor?--[[User:Q-orca|Q-orca]] ([[User talk:Q-orca|talk]]) 07:01, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
:Are you saying that's true in all cases, or are you actually talking about a specific circumstance (in particular, if {{a|Synchronize}} is used)? And how do you claim to know this? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 07:31, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
::I mean in general cases. From the description, Synchronize affect wild pokemon's nature in Emerald onwards (R/S version is before Emerald). I know this since I've looked at the code (and IMO, this is the reason why Gameshark / Action Replay for modifying Pokemon's nature exists).--[[User:Q-orca|Q-orca]] ([[User talk:Q-orca|talk]]) 08:04, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
:::Well, [[Pokémon data structure in Generation III|as far as we've heard]], the game does not specifically store the Pokemon's Nature anywhere, only its PV, so in that sense it's very true that Nature is determined by the PV. This is really splitting hairs, but I think you can mark a difference: the game decides which Nature it will accept, but the PV is still what determines whether the Pokemon's Nature will be what the game is looking for. You can make an analogy to a person going out and looking for someone with a certain eye color; in the end, the person's eye color is determined by their genes, not the searcher. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 09:18, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
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