Talk:Ash Ketchum: Difference between revisions

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 :::I agree with Pumpkinking0192 as in we should split the page, the anime isn't likely to stop soon and Ash is bound to get more pokemon as time goes on Though I do believe that there should be a page with pokemon that reside at Oak's laboratory and a section for Ash's pokemon and one for Gary's (if there are any known) and have this page link to it instead of listing all pokemon that Oak is keeping for Ash. If we don't split the page eventually it'll take an hour to quickly scroll to the bottom and yes I realize that at the top there are links to send you to the area you want quickly but there are also people in this world who dislike using those links. {{unsigned|Pokegail|20:11, 25 September 2017 (UTC)}}
 ::I also second {{U|Force Fire}}. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:25, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
+:::Wouldn't it be better if all the Pokemon out of rotation were added to that page too? Considering Ash has caught so many Pokemon, the page will fill up quickly, and even after removing the temporary Pokemon, this page will still be big enough to cause problems. → [[User talk:PikaTepig999|<span style="color:#000;">PikaTe</span>]][[Special:Contribs/PikaTepig999|<span style="color:#000;">pig999</span>]] 05:22, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
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 :Don't do that yet. The {{series|Sun & Moon}} hasn't ended yet. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 01:14, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
+==Orange League==
+Why isn't he listed as Champion of the Orange League any more?[[User:Roserade57|Roserade57]] ([[User talk:Roserade57|talk]]) 03:31, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
+:Not sure, to be honest. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:54, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
+::The template should be updated to allow multiple champion listings.[[User:Roserade57|Roserade57]] ([[User talk:Roserade57|talk]]) 08:26, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
+== Goodra not technically released... ==
+Goodra should be added to "In training" since it was left in the care of another person like Squirtle and Primeape, and Ash has shown the ability to recall Goodra when he wants to.
+[[User:Panky..|Panky..]] ([[User talk:Panky..|talk]]) 12:36, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
+:This has been [[Talk:Ash Ketchum/Archive 6#Why|discussed before]]. Goodra isn't under the care of anyone. Keanan is not the same situation as Anthony, Jenny, or Liza, where those Pokemon joined those trainers to become stronger (hence, In ''training''), Goodra just went back to its home which just happens to be owned by Keanan.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#00A1E9">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#59C2F1">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#BF004F">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D5598C">ire</span>]] 12:55, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
+::However, Ash still has its pokeball as shown in Sun and Moon Episode 1. [[User:Paree24|Paree24]] ([[User talk:Paree24|talk]]) 06:55, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
+==Seaking==
+[[File:Ash Pokémon Heisei Recap.png|thumb|250px]]
+Now that Mimey seems to be considered a Pokémon Ash formally owned/owns, should Seaking be moved from the 'Temporary' section to the 'Released' section? Just like Mimey, it is also included in the ''Heisei History of Pocket Monsters: From Tuesday to Thursday, and Then Sunday'' special, alongside Ash's other Pokémon. Based on the list Seaking is considered to have been one of Ash's Pokémon, rather than just a temporary one. [[User:Satsjoe|Satsjoe]] ([[User talk:Satsjoe|talk]]) 15:52, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
+== Ash's Pokemon Section: Are Greninja, Goodra and Naganadel "Formally Released"? ==
+This article mentions Goodra, Greninja and Naganadel as "Formally Released Back Into the Wild".
+However,
+    We never see the release animation like we saw with Butterfree, Pidgeot and Lapras
+    Both Goodra and Greninja were outside their pokeball when they parted ways
+    Goodra is literally under the care of the person who is in charge of the swamp
+    When Ash leaves Greninja with Zygarde, Zygarde says "Greninja will be under my care".
+    Goodra has comeback after being left in the swamp (like Gliscor and Charizard), it was never recaught.
+    In the first episode of Sun and Moon, Ash gives 5 pokeballs to oak implying that Ash still owns both Goodra and Greninja
+    When Naganadel comes back, Ash recalls it to its beast ball instead of recatching it. [Implying he never released it]
+But, as we know, Once the Pokémon is released, it is removed from the player's possession and cannot be encountered again.
+So stating that Ash has "Formally Released" them back into the wild is not true.
+Here is what i think:
+Goodra: Should be under the care of Keanan
+Greninja: With Zygarde
+Naganadel: Its World
+They aren't formally released as long as these evidences are not invalidated. {{unsigned|Paree24}}
+:The anime constantly changes over the years and the release animation of before is not going to be the same as it is now. And they are also known not to be consistent and forget things.
+:And? Doesn't mean they're not released. They could've been released off screen and departed on screen.
+:Keagan owns the swamp but is not looking after Goodra. Goodra just went home, it didn't go to Keagan to get stronger. Same with Greninja.
+:Games=/=anime. Who says he needs to recatch it if he's already created a close bond with the Pokemon? And who's to say he needs to dispose of the Pokemon's Poke Ball after he's released it? It's all speculation. And Ash has met up with Lapras, so yes, a released Pokemon in the anime can be encountered again. Because the anime is not the game. It has its own rules.
+:All three Pokemon returned (or were released) to the wild, they are not being cared for by another trainer.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#00A1E9">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#59C2F1">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#BF004F">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D5598C">ire</span>]] 07:39, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
+::If That is the case, why does the article say "Formally Released Back to the wild" and proceeds to link to a page which defines releasing as per the game definition? Isn't it contradicting what you said? Also Squirtle didn't go to train with Jenny/Make it more stronger, why is it in the training list if thats the case? Both Goodra and Squirtle can be called upon when needed and we have seen it in the anime. Also Squirtle was last seen in Oak's lab with the Squirtle Squad and Jenny wasn't even there/mentioned so how is Goodra different from Squirtle?
+::Also by the definition of released according to the linked article, it can be caught by another trainer which is totally not the case if ash still owns them but left them somewhere. So, technically, Butterfree can be caught by another trainer but Greninja/Goodra/Naganadel cannot be since he still owns them. Releasing them offscreen is a speculation and is not fact. Infact the whole Greninja release(in care of zygarde and not released imo) arc took place on screen and there was no involvement of either pokeball/release animation either. [[User:Paree24|Paree24]] ([[User talk:Paree24|talk]]) 09:00, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
+== Ash's Dragonite and Mimey ==
+I think that Ash's Dragonite and Mimey don't be in "On hand" section, because they are kept in the Sakuragi Institute, this information was confirmed in [[JN011|SS011]].--[[User:Lockheedpryde|Lockheedpryde]] ([[User talk:Lockheedpryde|talk]]) 21:56, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
+== Ash's Gengar ==
+I think that Ash's Gengar maybe is shiny due to they different color.--[[User:Lockheedpryde|Lockheedpryde]] ([[User talk:Lockheedpryde|talk]]) 21:56, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
+== Pokemon World Championship ranks? ==
+What do you think about adding Ash current Rank in the Pokemon World Championship in the main information section and add possible Rank Changes as a separate column in the Achievement section, with hyperlinks to Episodes in which his Rank changed (Similar to Badges/Frontier Symbols obtained),
+e.g.
+.4.6. Pokemon World Championship
+.4.6.1 Normal Rank (< Top 1000)
+#3763 -  win against Visquez (SS018)
+etc. {{unsigned|Lord Godwin}}
+: I think that may cause a clutter, it may suit easier to show his End of Season rank once the series is done; badges are finite, rank is continually in flux [[User:Azure42|Azure/ChromeVoid42]] ([[User talk:Azure42|talk]]) 20:30, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
+:: At the very least Ash's current rank should be listed (presumably the information box like under trainer class or something listing his PWC rank), that is updated any time it actually updates and we have solid indication what the rank is. So right now somewhere it should say 3763 as of writing this. --[[User:Dman dustin|Dman dustin]] ([[User talk:Dman dustin|talk]]) 21:42, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
+:::It's probably fine to have it where it's at for now. If it gets too much, as in his rank changes every single episode (which I doubt), then we'll do something different.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#00A1E9">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#59C2F1">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#BF004F">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D5598C">ire</span>]] 05:07, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
+== Article split suggestion ==
+It's been months since [[Talk:Ash_Ketchum#Split_suggestion|it was proposed and, seemingly, reached the consensus to]] split this page to exclude all temporary pokémon (including Ride ones), with [[User:Force Fire|Force Fire]] also starting an [[User:Force Fire/List of Pokémon temporarily owned by Ash Ketchum|userpage]] which would be ready to be added into the Mainspace. My suggestion is to go further than that. Considering Ash is first and foremost an anime character, I think Ash's appearances in other media should be split into another article. I believe Ash is such an important character to deserve this split, and the navigability of the page would be much better.
+So my idea is to have:
+*Ash Ketchum (including all anime info – History, Character, Pokémon, Achievements, Voice Actors, Artwork and Trivia)
+*List of Pokémon temporarily owned by Ash Ketchum (info about Temporary and Ride pokémon, which really need to be split into another article)
+*Ash Ketchum in other media (including the In the games, In the manga, in the TCG sections)
+I think it's time we start to think about the user performance on such pages, as it became impossible to navigate through Ash's page. --[[User:Crikko|'''★'''<span style="color:#6699FF;">'''Cri'''</span>'''ққ'''<span style="color:#6699FF;">'''ѳ~'''</span>'''*''']] 15:02, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
+:Also, [[Template:Ash's Pokémon]] is nearly unusable. Do we really need to include temporary and ride pokémon there if they don't have a personal page themselves? I would keep only the pokémon with separate pages and the ''Electric Tale'' only ones because of [[Ash's Fearow]] page.--[[User:Crikko|'''★'''<span style="color:#6699FF;">'''Cri'''</span>'''ққ'''<span style="color:#6699FF;">'''ѳ~'''</span>'''*''']] 15:16, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
+::I agree with the page split, as navigating his page is inconvenient. The template, on the other hand, doesn't really need changed.--[[User:Rahl|Rahl]] ([[User talk:Rahl|talk]]) 20:12, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
+:::We can easily link the subpage on the bottom of the "Ash's Pokémon" once the page is split. We already do that for [[Template:Team Rocket's Pokémon|Team Rocket]]. - [[User:Chosen|<span style="color:#336799">Chosen</span>]] ([[User talk:Chosen|<span style="color:#000">Talk</span>]]) 20:18, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
+::::Exactly, the template could look like below. How many contributions do we need to reach a consensus? Sorry, first time proposing a major change here. --[[User:Crikko|'''★'''<span style="color:#6699FF;">'''Cri'''</span>'''ққ'''<span style="color:#6699FF;">'''ѳ~'''</span>'''*''']] 13:48, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
+{| width="70%" class="roundy expandable" style="margin:auto; border: 2px solid #{{#if:{{{1|}}}|{{{{{1|}}} color}}|{{X color light}}}}; background: #{{#if:{{{1|}}}|{{{{{1|}}} color}}|{{X color light}}}};"
+! style="{{roundytop|5px}} background: #{{{{{2|{{{1|ice}}}}}} color light}}" colspan="7" | {{Ash|{{color|000|Ash}}}}'s [[Pokémon (species)|{{color|000|Pokémon}}]]
+|-
+! style="text-align:left;" | In rotation:
+| width="15%" | {{PartyPoké|025||Ash|Pikachu|electric}}
+| width="15%" |
+| width="15%" |
+| width="15%" |
+| width="15%" |
+| width="15%" |
+|- class="unexpandable"
+| style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background: #{{{{{2|{{{1|ice}}}}}} color light}}" colspan="7" |
+|-
+| style="{{roundybottom|5px}} background: #{{{{{2|{{{1|ice}}}}}} color light}}" colspan="7" align="center"| For a list of other Pokémon Ash has commanded, see '''[[List of Pokémon temporarily owned by the Ash Ketchum|here]]'''
+|}
+:::::After some discussion with staff we decided to split off Ash's temporary/ride Pokemon, as well as his achievement section onto separate pages. I also edited the "Ash's Pokemon" template to remove the temporary/ride Pokémon to make the template less cumbersome on pages as well. The article is still pretty long, but that is partially just because he is such a massive character with a lot of information to cover, so that's kind of going to be expected. However, we can definitely help things by cutting down on unnecessary portions of his history/character sections by summarizing where we can and perhaps using less detail in some places. Thanks again bringing this issue back up again for renewed discussion! '''''[[User:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">--Pokemaster</span>]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">97</span>]]''''' 19:20, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
+::::::Thank you! Glad I could be helpful. I still think the appearances in other medias could be split into another page too, as they're mostly trivial information. But right now it's already much better. --[[User:Crikko|'''★'''<span style="color:#6699FF;">'''Cri'''</span>'''ққ'''<span style="color:#6699FF;">'''ѳ~'''</span>'''*''']] 08:25, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
+A suggestion that I think could be adopted, I saw in Marvel wikis mainly, the following: in the biography of a character like Captain America, a summary by decade and a link that went to a bigger page with the description of that time. Something like a page for Ash's journey in Kanto, Johto, Diamond & Pearl, Unova and co. It was going to help solve a good part of the said space problem. It only left the events that are constantly remembered (ex: Liga Kanto, the Ho-Oh incident, Gary Vs Ash, more or less) and that influence the canon of the character as a whole. Here:
+https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Steven_Rogers_(Earth-616)
+https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Steven_Rogers_(Earth-616)/Expanded_History
+[[User:Hikaru Wazana|Hikaru Wazana]] ([[User talk:Hikaru Wazana|talk]]) 19:35, 07 April 2020 (UTC)