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Talk:Twineedle (move): Difference between revisions
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Would someone be able to help verify what the correct behavior is in these cases (potentially both with and without the target having a Substitute in the second case) so we can figure out the specifics? [[User:VioletPumpkin|VioletPumpkin]] ([[User talk:VioletPumpkin|talk]]) 23:52, 23 May 2016 (UTC) | Would someone be able to help verify what the correct behavior is in these cases (potentially both with and without the target having a Substitute in the second case) so we can figure out the specifics? [[User:VioletPumpkin|VioletPumpkin]] ([[User talk:VioletPumpkin|talk]]) 23:52, 23 May 2016 (UTC) | ||
:I'm on it. See below. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:38, 5 May 2017 (UTC) | |||
== Correcting information == | |||
Ok, three things I'm willing to change (though maybe not at the same time): | |||
; Poisoning chance : UPC [http://upcarchive.playker.info/0/upokecenter/dex/index.html%3Flang=en&move=41.html says] that the poisoning effect only occurs once in Gen I-III. I had a look at GenI+II disassemblies, and I'm convinced. (It's really scattered in multiple places and would take a decent paragraph to explain in detail, but the most important once are [https://github.com/pret/pokered/blob/77c3e22a4ecd3dc81918f00c548cef7c634f3419/engine/battle/core.asm#L3294 here] and [https://github.com/pret/pokecrystal/blob/700321a7fb2d6c852ffc91cc0b8867526cb76813/battle/moves/move_effects.asm#L983 here]). Contrary to what we currently say, the poisoning chance is just 20% (as if it only hit once; [https://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/azure/attacks/t/twineedle.htm Azure Heights agrees]); I can go into detail on request. I'm not currently 100% sure for post-Gen III behavior, but I assume you could easily find out just visually in-game. | |||
; Substitute poisoning : I had almost given up finding an error at our Substitute page, but Twineedle interaction it is; the poison check certainly isn't performed at the beginning of the move, and the substitute should be able to break on the first hit. I'm not sure about why Substitute says Twineedle "reverts to Gen II behavior" in Gen IV, but as it's tagged for proof anyway, I think it's adequate to remove that as well. | |||
; King's Rock interaction : As can be seen at where I already linked above, the Gen II King's Rock effect is applied outside of the multiple hit loop, once. (This applies to all multi-strike moves. I wouldn't technically ''know'' if it changed later, but honestly, I had always thought a potential ~70% flinch chance due to Serene Grace and ''an item'' was highly unlikely.) | |||
I'm trying to see if I can test some things in-game somehow. In the meantime, if anyone has any additional information, there's plenty space below! [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:38, 5 May 2017 (UTC) | |||