Talk:Toxicroak (Pokémon)

Finger

Is it just me or is the Croagunk Evolution family giving us the bird? (Look at the red part of it's hand! am i the first to notice this?) --Fakachu 01:04, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Sprites

Why aren't the different sprites of Toxicroak seen in the page? Shouldn't it be there? JmathTalk 13:01, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I think we didn't upload them yet (don't ask me to!) Optimatum^Talk|♊13:02 7 Mar 2008

I saw one of the sprites on Saturn's page. JmathTalk 13:08, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

That was the basic shiny sprite...not the ones that added the 'm' and 'f'...Optimatum^Talk|♊13:15 7 Mar 2008

But don't we add the shiny sprites to the article as well? JmathTalk 13:18, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Saturn's Toxicroak

Is Saturn's shiny or not I mean it looks shiny but ppl say it isn't and I'm confused! Crystal Lucario 13:32, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

The shiny color seems right but...Optimatum^Talk|♊13:33 7 Mar 2008

• I know but everyone says it isn't!

Crystal Lucario 13:35, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Wait, I'll settle the sprite prob first...

Images have been hidden. See? Optimatum^Talk|♊13:37 7 Mar 2008

Does the Pokédex [entry] look absolutely exactly like the Toxicroak? Strange.. my Pokédex, despite a shiny Flygon being the first Flygon I had, it doesn't list it as shiny. I know about the anime =/= games thing, but STILL! Also, look at Croagunk, and compare it to the regular sprite. Orange and blue. Typical. Now compare Toxicroak to the POKÉDEX image and the sprite. Damn different. Tina ^δ♫ 16:14, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Please, stop this bullshit. Ash scanned the toxicroak and the image of the pokedex showed the blure-greenish colour. The pokedex always shows the regular pokemon ( when the shiny noctowl was scanned back in jotho, a brown noctowl was displayed at the pokedex). So the "shiny" colour is the normal anime colour. Live with it. All the toys of toxicroak look like the anime version: do you really think they would sell only the shiny version of the pokemon? I will edit the toxicroak article every time until you come to your senses... DocDoak. 18:40, 7 March 2008

Someone needs to interview an Art Director, or we need to see Croagunk evolving to be absolutely sure. --Dman dustin 18:05, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Ash scanned a shiny noctowl and the pokedex showed him a normal noctowl. Ash scans this toxicroak and the pokedex showed him..guess what? THIS toxicroak. it is a normal one. We don´t need an interview or something like that. http://serebiiforums.com/showpost.php?p=7636013&postcount=25 <- look at all of the toys. btw, the toys are much older than this weeks episode, so , no, it isn´t a toy-line for the episode. Toxicroak is not the first pokemon which looks different in the first games it was released in than the other medias. think about bellosom or ariados... DocDoak, 18:12, 7 March 2008

People, people, please. Whomsover has seen the anime episode can end this war by ansering this question.

• When Toxicrak was released from it's Poké Ball, did stars appear like they did with Noctowl?
  • If yes, Toxicroak is shiny.
  • If no, Toxicroak is not shiny.

Can't get simpler than that. Personally I blame GameFreak for not being creative with their shiny colours (tch, light blue!). (P.S. I haven't seen the episode so I can't answer the question.) TESHIGIGAS 18:14, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I saw the episode and their wasn´t a sparkle. there was a effect which some people might think is the shiny effect, but it was just for show of and was shown like this several time before that on non-shiny pokemon. My Pokédex argument still stands. DocDoak, 18:19 7 March, 2008

All right, this debate on whether that Toxicroak is shiny or not is really getting out of hand. If the Toxicroak was really shiny, wouldn't someone mention something about it being shiny (I'm talking about in the show). But no one said anything about it. It was like with anything else. They see a Pokémon, scan it and the episode goes on. I am not saying the Toxicroak is not shiny but wouldn't it be better to wait for another Toxicroak to appear and note whether they have same color or not. If they do, it's definitely not shiny but if the other one is blue instead, we can agree this one is shiny. JmathTalk 18:36, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree. That is the reason why I edited "speculated to be shiny" in the article inthe last few days, but for some reason, people edited it away. I still think that the toys, the episode and the pokedex pretty much confirm that it isn´t shiny,but I can agree on a "unsure if shiny or not"-compromise. DocDoak, 18:29, 7 March 2008

If an admin leaves it shiny for now, then leave it. TESHIGIGAS 18:45, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I will, WHEN an admin will do it. And , seriously, why can´t you answer on my points about it being not a shiny pokemon? Just stopping the discussion won´t get you any further.. DocDoak, 19:33

Quoting TTEchidna's summary for the recent edit on Alternate coloration: It's shiny until we see seventy Toxicroak together with the color, since the shiny sprite is the exact color. This indicates that we already have a sysop view of this whole situation, which means anyone who says it's not alternate-color is disagreeing with a sysop.

Even a sysop can be wrong, though (where TTE expects 70 bloody Toxicroak to come from, I don't know). I thought this site was supposed to stay neutral? Otherwise this site could end up with egg on it's face if and when Brock's Croagunk evolves. - Cassius335 14:11, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

As for my 2¢: The Toxicroak in question is to be considered an alternate-color unless significant evidence within the anime exists otherwise. Besides, if the anime WERE to be considering that Toxicroak normal-color, odds are it would consider Brock's Croagunk to be an alternate-color (since Croagunk's color scheme does not change when it evolves), which would set a backwards standard for the evolution line.

As for the effect listed, remember that different generations have different versions of the alternate coloration's effect in the games. Ash's Noctowl was caught in Generation II and hasn't been used since then. DP069 is a Generation IV episode, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the effect would change if Ash brought Noctowl back onto the team, probably to the one seen on this Toxicroak. Besides, if people are using the Poké Ball effects as evidence, then we'd have to say that the purple Shuckle in EP170, the gold Magikarp in AG092, the brown Donphan in AG114, and especially Lance's Gyarados are also not of the alternate-colored variety.

Keep in mind that the anime also has colors not found in the games--note the Pink Butterfree, a purple Kecleon in EP205, a blue Breloom in AG151, and a light-blue Marill also in AG151 don't have the standard normal or alternate-color color schemes from the games.

At this point, I think we should do more research on that green-eyed Jigglypuff in AG138...--Shiningpikablu252 22:52, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I've seen the sticker with anime's version of Toxicroak certain time ago and it was colored just like in this episode. This means it's just anime coloration and Toxicroak wasn't shiny. --Maxim 19:58, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree. I don't think it was shiny as much as I think it's the anime's way of coloring it. I mean look at Ash's Gligar. It's pink for crying out loud. --'ケンジ'ガール 03:43, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes but the difference is that Gligar's Shiny form is Blue not pink --Dman dustin 04:38, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes but that's not the pointPokeManiac102 04:41, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Then the point of bringing up Gligar? --Dman dustin 05:30, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I'd say take this as you will. I for one believe the Toxicroak in question is shiny because the 'light' it comes from promptly turns into smaller star shaped lights before disappearing...--Tsum [1]

To Dman dustin, I brought up Gligar as an example of how the anime changes the color of Pokémon. Besides, Toxicroak in the anime had differences from the shiny form. It has a much more tourquoise tone and the sack under its chin was red, not pink. It also did not sparkle when it emerged from its Poké Ball. It's just an anime recolor that just happened to look like the shiny form. --'ケンジ'ガール 05:48, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

The bright part (not covered in shadows, but not the brightest part) is actually dark pink http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink as shown in that link. When something is covered in darkness it's color is often indistinguishable, like dark blue and people confuse it with black. Judge the color that's not covered in shadows, as that gives the best detail And it was dark the whole time Toxicroak was out so it's colors seem darker. But I bet when the sun is out. Toxicroak would look like its shiny form 100%. Whether that's to say it is a shiny in regards to the anime is still up for debate. And I also realize the point in bringing up Gligar, but again, its not the same case with Toxicroak, which is why I said Gligar's shiny form is blue. --Dman dustin 06:20, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

All right, I said this before and I will say it again. Don't you think if it was shiny, someone would mention it. But no one said anything about it, not a damn thing. They just treated it as another new Pokémon that they see. Also the anime doesn't always follow the games exactly in every detail. JmathTalk 08:09, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

In other words: SAY IT IS SPECULATED TO BE SHINY!!! IT MAY OR MAY NOT BE SHINY U ASSES!!! Optimatum^Talk|♊11:51 8 Mar 2008

Protection request...

Anyone with the abilities to protect this page, should probably do so. I think this edit war is getting out of hand, but I'm gonna try and avoid this debate as much as possible >_> Tina ^δ♫ 19:39, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I don´t see the problem with a debate. instead of closing the page from edits, why not try to argue for it? why is it allowed that the DP068 page can say it is shiny, and a "speculated to be shiny" entry ( which is more true) will be edited? that´s a doubel standart. Why can´t we say that it is unsure? DocDoak, 19:45, 7 March 2008

Way too much protection on Bulbapedia, methinks. Glinn 04:32, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Ya got that right Glinn. Btw, TOXICROAK AIN'T SHINY. WATCH THE EPISODE AND LOOKPokeManiac102 04:35, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm always right. :P

Amazing, you managed to turn this section into part of the debate as well! Oh well. No matter. Glinn 06:47, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Blah...PokeManiac102 13:49, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Well I'm asking Sketchies right now if he can protect it.....hopefully he responds...--Theryguy512 13:51, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Wait! I think that we should block the user for a couple of days insteadPokeManiac102 13:54, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

FOR THE SAKE OF THE ARTICLE IT AIN'T SHINY!!! JUST USE CASSIUS'S NEUTRAL POINT OF VIEWPokeManiac102 14:09, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Guys, just look at them:

Images have been hidden

IT IS SHINY!!! --Theryguy512 14:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Have you ever heard of brightened coloring?PokeManiac102 14:37, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Yup it's not shinyPokeManiac102 14:39, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Dude, It toally IS shiny! Why else would Toxicroak be a different color than Brock's Croagunk???:

a:File:CroagunkToxicroak.JPG That's solid proof that it's shiny. --Theryguy512 14:45, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

No, that's solid proof that it looks shinyPokeManiac102 14:46, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

.....A.K.A. IT IS shiny. --Theryguy512 14:50, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Well they didn't brighten up gliscor in the anime while gligar is so that can't really be proof-Darkmaster014:50, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

It's okay, the eyes can easily deceive. Just go to the eye doctorPokeManiac102 14:52, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

How can you say it's not proof???? It has all the aspects of a shiny one, and none of a regular Toxicroak! --Theryguy512 14:54, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

No, it's darker than a shinyPokeManiac102 14:55, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

No it's not. And if it is, it's not by much. It's a lot different than the normal one! --Theryguy512 15:00, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

What is your definition on normal?PokeManiac102 15:01, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

The normal one has blue skin, red middle toe and finger, and red mustache looking thing and air sac. The shiny one has aqua skin, pink middle toe and finger, and pink mustache looking thing an air sac. --Theryguy512 15:08, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Watch the episode again. Look at the picture in the Pokédex. Then watch the episode with the Shiny Noctowl. Look at the image of the dex. It doesn't show shiniesPokeManiac102 15:09, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I never watched the episode. But are you now saying that Ash's Noctowl isn't shiny too? They both are!--Theryguy512 15:11, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

WILL YOU FREAKIN PAY ATTENTION! Let's say that Ash sees a shiny Magnezone. If he were to point his Pokédex at it, the image of the Magnezone on the Pokédex won't be shiny.PokeManiac102 15:16, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I know that, and Toxicroak wasn't shiny on the dex. But what does that proof??? --Theryguy512 15:18, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

<_<' we will all know when Brock's Croagunk evolves... you know that right? Crystal Lucario 15:19, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

If you take the picture on the dex, and you take the picture of the toxicroak, and you put it on paint, they will be the same color. Therefore the Toxicroak is not shinyPokeManiac102 15:19, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

It is shiny and Brock's will prove it...Crystal Lucario 15:22, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Well did you ever think that the colors just made an error and put it shiny on the dex??? --Theryguy512 15:23, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

What happens if it doesn't evolve?PokeManiac102 15:24, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

What if it does.Crystal Lucario 15:27, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I asked you firstPokeManiac102 15:28, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Touchē Crystal Lucario 15:30, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

TouchéPokeManiac102 15:31, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

If it doesn't evolve one should appear sometimeCrystal Lucario 15:33, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

And how would you know that?PokeManiac102 15:34, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Most Pokémon appear in the Anime. (Exept the Porygons)Crystal Lucario 15:37, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes and Toxicroak already appeared, in that episode!PokeManiac102 15:39, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I mean a diffrent one!Crystal Lucario 15:41, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

UnlikelyPokeManiac102 15:44, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Likely enough.Crystal Lucario 15:46, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

That's your opinion. But it does seem unlikely, not my opinionPokeManiac102 15:47, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

At this point I say we protect that page until another Toxicroak appears. G2G. Crystal Lucario 15:50, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

What happens if one doesn't?PokeManiac102 15:56, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

As far as we know, the Pokédex showing the debated colors of Toxicroak is not surefire proof that the anime considers that the standard coloration of Toxicroak. For all we know, the model 7 Pokédex (the one Ash and Dawn use now) has pictures of multiple color variations for each Pokémon programmed into it. Given that its game counterpart can display multiple variations, it's distinctly possible that the anime Pokédex can also display multiple variations. It probably detected the alternate color and showed that instead of the normal. Pokédex technology has very likely progressed with each model--recall that model 2 (the one Ash used between EP050 and EP116) displayed Vileplume's normal petal pattern even when a Vileplume was shown with a different one.

Besides, since it's a known fact that Croagunk doesn't change its colors when it evolves, it's pretty much certain that the anime considers either Saturn's Toxicroak or Brock's Croagunk to be alternate coloration. And I'm certain fans would revolt if it's revealed the former is considered the normal color...--Shiningpikablu252 17:28, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Probably, or it could just be the anime coloring. Then again, it probably is an alternate colorPokeManiac102 17:46, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Why can't we say that it is speculated to be shiny rather than saying for sure it's shiny or not? What if one of them turns out to be wrong? JmathTalk 18:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Exactly, that's what I want. But Theryguy512 keeps insisting that it is a shinyPokeManiac102 18:37, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

And there are countless others that insist it's not alternate-color. And apparently both sides have been rejecting this middle ground, with most of those insisting it's not being rookies. --Shiningpikablu252 18:41, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

SurePokeManiac102 18:42, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Here is my opinion. In DP069, a Toxicroak speculated to be shiny appears. or possibly A Toxicroak speculated to be shiny appears in DP069. That sound good? Tina ^δ♫ 20:33, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I find it funny that people assume Saturn's Toxicroak is just a brightened version of it's game coloring when in fact it isn't. Had Toxicroak been Sky Blue (like the TCG Toxicroak) we wouldn't be debating this. The only way Toxicroak could look like the one shown in anime is to add another color and I mean green/yellow. Sky blue would just be a different tint of Toxicroak's normal coloring. -sigh- Sometimes I wish Toxicroak had been all red, or black in the anime. And for know I like what it says on the Toxicroak page (assuming no one edits it while I'm writing this). And I hope it stays until we have absolutely know what Saturn's Toxicroak is in relation to the anime (shiny or normal coloration). --Dman dustin 01:47, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Does everyone remember Purple Kecleon? :) Glinn 03:14, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Aug. Don't even start. It is the same color as the shiny sprite so it speculated to be shiny. Crystal Lucario 11:50, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

As far as we know, the Pokédex showing the debated colors of Toxicroak is not surefire proof that the anime considers that the standard coloration of Toxicroak. For all we know, the model 7 Pokédex (the one Ash and Dawn use now) has pictures of multiple color variations for each Pokémon programmed into it. Given that its game counterpart can display multiple variations, it's distinctly possible that the anime Pokédex can also display multiple variations. It probably detected the alternate color and showed that instead of the normal. Pokédex technology has very likely progressed with each model--recall that model 2 (the one Ash used between EP050 and EP116) displayed Vileplume's normal petal pattern even when a Vileplume was shown with a different one.

Besides, since it's a known fact that Croagunk doesn't change its colors when it evolves, it's pretty much certain that the anime considers either Saturn's Toxicroak or Brock's Croagunk to be alternate coloration. And I'm certain fans would revolt if it's revealed the former is considered the normal color...--Shiningpikablu252 17:28, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Shining, you're basically using speculation as evidence. Since there's no canon tec-specs on the "Model 7" available, there's no proof that it shows Shiny Pokemon pictures for Pokemon. Possible, sure. Proven? No. For all we know, the setup remains the same as the model 2 and shows the normal colouration as the default. Could go either way, frankly, but there's no proof.

And you really should avoid using the phrase "since it's a known fact", since the possibility exists that when Brock's Crogunk evolves, it'll have the same colouration as Saturn's Toxicroak, which (since, so we've been told, a non-shiny will remain a non-shiny) should settle this little row once and for all.

To everyone who still thinks that Toxicroak is Shiny, I'm going to invoke Gravy's argument: why does every piece of merchandise use Toxicroak's in-game shiny colours and not the in-game normal coloration?

And again, I'd like to remind everyone of this: "Toxicroak is Shiny" is not a neutral viewpoint. "Toxicroak is not Shiny" is not a neutral viewpoint. This site is supposed to adhere a neutral viewpoint.

Rant over. - Cassius335 14:42, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

I rewatched "Fowl Play" the episode Ash's Noctowl is debuted and captured. And you'll be interested to know Ash never scans his shiny Nowctowl. He scans a normal colored noctowl but that's it.--Dman dustin 07:28, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Maybe this is just a miscolouration. Salamence was the wrong colour in Gen 3, but is the right colour in DP and in the anime. Porygon-Z 10:42, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

CUT IT OUT!

WE SAY IT IS SPECULATED TO BE SHINY AND THAT'S FINAL! -grrr- Optimatum^Talk|♊07:44 12 Mar 2008

No-one had said anything for 3 days... The article is fine how it is. Glinn 09:54, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Good, and let's keep it that way. Optimatum^Talk|♊10:19 12 Mar 2008

If that Toxicroak's "Shiny", then it's like the majority of "shiny" Pokémon in the anime: not the official color, but different from the official shiny color (don't believe me, look at: the pink Butterfree that Ash's Butterfree fell in love with, the purple Kecleons, the light-blue Marill and blue Breloom from Weekend Warrior, just about every single Pokémon from the Orange Archipelago). Diachronos 17:51, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Piece of my mind

Anyone noticed Riolu? It's soooooooooo different color from Lucario. Unlikethe games...Optimatum^Talk|Links26 Apr 2008

And what does this have to do with the alternate-colored Toxicroak? Besides, that Riolu is still clearly blue, while alternate-colored Riolu are yellow...--Shiningpikablu252 14:40, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

The Alternate colour in DP086.

In dp086 a Toxicroak appeared. It was owned by the dude from Neon Town/City. The Toxicroak was the same colour as Saturns. I was conviced Toxicroak was shiny, until I seen a toy of it in the Entertainer.--Davidaipom 14:50, 11 July 2008 (UTC) David Aipom Loves Bethany!

I noticed that too! I think that the game's alternate coloured toxicroak is the anime's colour. I can't find a pic of it, though...I'd show it to you people if I had one...Shiny Pachirisu 23:58, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

For all we know, the rocker may have borrowed Saturn's Toxicroak.

Additionally, there's evidence in DP069 that says that Saturn's Toxicroak is a genuine alternate-coloration Pokémon. It shows the right colors for the job, AND it shows a special effect when it emerges from the Poké Ball. It's not the exact same effect Ash's Noctowl possessed, but it can be explained that it's a difference between the effects from Generation II and Generation IV (the game counterparts are also different between generations).

As far as I'm concerned, the fans still widely believe that Saturn's Toxicroak is of alternate-coloration. Besides, the DP086 picture appears to be from a flashback, and we all know that a flashback can be messed up...--Shiningpikablu252 00:03, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Or maybe Saturn undercover. But I highly doubt it...Shiny Pachirisu 00:05, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Saturn's Toxicroak is a female?

In the 'In the Anime' section, during the part where it mentions DP096 and DP097, it refers to Saturn's Toxicroak as a female. Is it's gender officially confirmed or not? Bowser the Second 21:13, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Just a suggestion...

WHY DONT WE ASK NINTENDO FOR IT, I MEAN THATS WHAT THE MAILBAG IS FOR!!!!!!!

Atomix26 01:44, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

I just did. That is a good question. Maybe they may put it up. We'll just have to keep checking back. --^Psychic_Rider^☮ 01:53, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Definate shiny

compare [2] with the same thing on the link to the pokedex. and tell me those aren't different Atomix26 03:03, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Uh, Saturn's Toxicroak has its own page now. And, by extension, it also has its own talk page as well. Any arguments over its coloration status should be directed to the specific talk page. (For the record, I'm certain that it's supposed to be of the alternate coloration. If it wasn't supposed to be of the alternate coloration, they would have changed its color in the dub.) --Shiningpikablu252 03:09, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Why would the dub change the color? Have they ever done that? It's not shiny. There have been drastic color differences before such as pink Gligar. Anime colors are sometimes different from game colors. This one just happens to slightly resemble the shiny version. There was that guy at the Hearthome collection whose Toxicroak was the same color as Saturn's. Two shiny Toxicroak? Saturn's cousin who wanted to borrow it for the collection? I think not. So stop bringing it up. --ケンジのガール 03:32, 4 November 2008 (UTC)