Bulbapedia talk:Project CharacterDex/Archive 1: Difference between revisions

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Maverick Nate moved page Bulbapedia talk:Project CharacterDex to Bulbapedia talk:Project CharacterDex/Archive 1 without leaving a redirect

Maverick Nate

Bureaucrats, Leadership Board, Administrators

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 Apparently, only descriptions of Pokemon species are included, but not human characters outside of hair and eye color, and "List of clothing in the anime", which only lists clothing worn by the main characters in the anime, but not recurring characters or other characters in different media (like games and manga). The Pokemon Wiki lists descriptions for human characters, but not Bulbapedia. {{unsigned|Jjliang}}
 :We have biology which is meant to go more indepth then just explanation of the appearance. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 02:11, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
+== Goal for March ==
+A suggestion for the goal for March is to make quote subpages for all the characters that do not have them.--[[User:MissDelibirda|MissDelibirda]] ([[User talk:MissDelibirda|talk]]) 11:32, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
+== Scope and aims description ==
+"Project CharacterDex aims to write and improve comprehensive on characters from games. " is missing the word "articles". It should say:
+"Project CharacterDex aims to write and improve comprehensive '''articles''' on characters from games." [[User:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><font color="F34134">'''Land'''</font>]][[User talk:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><small><font color="8334B7">'''fish7'''</font></small></span></span>]] 04:52, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
+== Proposal ==
+We need to do sumfin' about how inconsistently character sections are done for character articles. For Adventures characters, they are their own section, which are topmost, anime characters have them as sub sections for the "In the anime" sections, and come after History. The character sections for Pokémon characters are also called "Personality and chracteristics" for some reason. As for game characters...they mostly don't have personality descriptions. And IF they exist, they are grouped together, and are often intergrated with, history sections, and I see plenty of short descriptions which are copied and pasted from the official sites, like on [[Arezu]]. All this needs to change ASAP.
+I propose that we follow the lead of the Adventures pages and put the character section topmost for all character pages. Character sections for game characters also need to be made, which I have started workin' on here: [[User:MissDelibirda/Personality_sections_for_game_characters]]
+Dedicated sections for manga and anime versions on game character pages are probably redundant unless the differences are large. We also probaby don't need character sections for ALL characters just yet, but we can start with the ones that are the most important to the stories. Additionally, I propose that all character sections are renamed to "Personality and traits", since it is more inclusive for things like Mai being described as strong in her concept art and stuff.--[[User:MissDelibirda|MissDelibirda]] ([[User talk:MissDelibirda|talk]]) 10:29, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
+:Bumping this.--[[User:MissDelibirda|MissDelibirda]] ([[User talk:MissDelibirda|talk]]) 14:08, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
+::Adventures characters only have character (and history and party) as top level headers because they're not in other mediums. Same for anime-only characters. <small>[[User:Glik|glik]]</small><sup>[[User talk:Glik|glak]]</sup> 22:48, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
+Very well, then. [[User:MissDelibirda|MissDelibirda]] ([[User talk:MissDelibirda|talk]]) 23:07, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
+:I still need response on the other things. {{unsigned|MissDelibirda}}
+::Adding character sections to game characters I think is fine, don't have any strong opinions on a uniform name. <small>[[User:Glik|glik]]</small><sup>[[User talk:Glik|glak]]</sup> 23:34, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
+== Detangling notability requirements ==
+So this is the first part of a two part improvement project I hope to try to be pushing forward with soon with the community. The first is when Pokémon are significant enough to be given their own page independent of their Trainer. The second is when it is reasonable to divorce a Trainer's page into independent pages instead of a section, but that is something I would like to cover at a later date.
+I would also like to indicate that I have tried to keep this as free from my own personal bias as possible, despite my own feelings on the matter. However as a note, responses to questions will be my personal opinions on matters.
+====The Problem====
+There's been a non-insignificant push back and forth between staff and users as to when Pokémon should be considered notable. Among the arguments presented by both sides are that we tend to have a very anime-centric view in these cases, the pages don't actually add any extra information other then what is already presented on the Trainer page, and just because a Pokémon is seen with it's Trainer that doesn't mean it is actually doing anything of note.
+For reference here is a summary of our current (relevant) notability guides
+: For [[Bulbapedia:Manual of style/Anime#Notability requirements|anime]]:
+::- Main character Pokémon are notable if they appear more then once (with a brief amendment for Goh given his journey)
+::- Rivals and recurring characters may only have signature Pokémon articles unless there is another Pokémon of particular note
+::- Gym Leaders may have an article on their signature but only if it did more then battle.
+:For [[Bulbapedia:Manual of style/Manga/Manga Pokémon notability policy|manga]] these are a bit messier due to the dependence on when and how they are appear but generally:
+::- Requires significant impact and reappearances
+::- Starter Pokémon of the main characters
+====The current situation====
+Now looking at the pages for mainspacing, a lot of draft articles currently caught up are "signature" Pokémon of Leaders, Elites and Rivals, or Pokémon that appeared multiple times throughout series that belonged to Rival Trainers but didn't do a lot outside of battling. Occasionally you also get Gym Leader secondary Pokémon here too.
+Defining signature Pokémon is something the series has been a lot better at doing for these Gym Leaders recently, however historically there will be some issues where we have the Gen 1 issue (lots of appearances across media, different representations) or where pre-evolutions are the primary Pokémon over final evolutions, Erika is one such example. We also have some cases where the signature Pokémon can flux between media types. Which is where thankfully, Pokémon Masters has been coming in use lately since it seems to be helping us pin point some of these mystery cases. There's also the Gotcha music video and another (albeit older) source we can sometimes use for these is the Adventures art for the key Trainers.
+====Working towards a solution====
+I want to talk about media agnostic views of the franchise, or trying to push for a more wholistic view of pages.
+Although I won't linger too long on this point, unfortunately only one section can be the top section and their is frequent disagreement on what that section should be between users, staff and viewers. There are projects in the works to try and work out ways to change that. However, in the interim and to help us start this conversation there are three main categories of appearances for the most part that the staff have identified.
+: '''Story''' - Usually Animated and Manga series, occasionally can include Games (think AZ's Floette or Jasmine's Ampharos).
+: '''Data''' -  Primarily this is seen with the games. Think things like Party Pokémon data, Master's links, Contest Data, and side game appearances.
+: '''Visual''' - This is where the appearance is primarily in a visual medium on the page, think things like TCG appearances and Merchandise. This can also occasionally involve other mediums especially in blink and you'll miss it appearances, such as Gotcha.
+Using these guidelines if we set a minimum amount of appearances between these three areas, we could potentially develop new guidelines that should see us able to have more Pokémon with pages that have been identified as important by the community, as well as help build a stronger Bulbapedia. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 13:17, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Bulbapedia talk:Project CharacterDex/Archive 1: Difference between revisions

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