User talk:Tiddlywinks/Archive 2: Difference between revisions

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Tiddlywinks

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+{{TalkArchive}}
 ;Archived talk
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 Wait a second, [[Template:YouTubeVid]] works just fine ([http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Template:YouTubeVid&oldid=1561295 proof]). We don't need [[Template:YouTubeEmbed]]. Here's a fixed "YouTubeVid" ({{u|SatoMew2/YouTubeVid|template}}, {{ut|SatoMew2/YouTubeVid|tests}}). [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 04:49, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 :That's kind of weird (given my expectations). Those are still embedded, though, so I imagine (without trying to check it in practice on the glitches page) any of those would still be as problematic to load as the previous revision with the YouTubeEmbed template. In the meantime, since the Youtube video templates were updated, I did a quick fix so the links at least work again, and tomorrow I'll go through and add name parameters too. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:31, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
+===Update===
+Looks like we're stuck with the names in the template. Do they really expect people to care about this? Most people will just add the template for the video with its ID qlong with a random URL and username and be done with it because the burden and time wasted on making sure the links are correct will simply put off most, especially on articles with multiple videos from different authors. [[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:#4fd9ff">SatoMew</span></b>]] 20:38, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
+:Bulbapedia cares. And if Bulbapedia wants to, that's up to "them". If people don't use the template right, it can be fixed. It's fair to argue whether ''Bulbapedia'' should care, but I wouldn't say it's fair to argue that Bulbapedia has to care whether people care. If Bulbapedia feels there is a needful standard, they probably ''should'' be aiming for it.
+:An analogy might be drawn to the new-ish rules for Pokemon Biology sections. Things are [[Bulbapedia:Project Pokédex/Structure|supposed to be]] sourceable on the page or cited. But sometimes people don't follow that rule, probably because they're ignorant of it. That doesn't mean Bulbapedia should bend to those ignorant or careless users. And it's easy enough to fix, anyway. No harm, no foul. Standards are worth having. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:22, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
+::Standards are only worth having if they serve an useful and pragmatic purpose, which is definitely not the case with YouTube videos. But it is what it is so there is no point arguing further since the decisions have already been made. And sourcing things in a reliable manner is a must on the wiki in general, of course. [[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:#4fd9ff">SatoMew</span></b>]] 00:59, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
+== Poké Seer location texts ==
+Location $00: [https://github.com/kanzure/pokecrystal/blob/0b5471f385d3cc66bb4ae7aa4191ce3af9f50cac/event/poke_seer.asm#L317 "Whaaaat? I can't tell a thing! How could I not know of this?"] (「なんと！　まったく　わからん！！　わしに　わからぬことが　あるとは⋯⋯」)
+Location $7D, #125: [https://github.com/kanzure/pokecrystal/blob/0b5471f385d3cc66bb4ae7aa4191ce3af9f50cac/event/poke_seer.asm#L323 "Hm&hellip; I see you met (POKéMON) here: !"] (「ふむ⋯⋯　この(Pokémon)とは　(gibberish)で　であった！」{{tt|*|the 11 question marks cause the text box to glitch up minorly}})
+Location $7E, #126: same as $00
+Location $7F, #127: [https://github.com/kanzure/pokecrystal/blob/0b5471f385d3cc66bb4ae7aa4191ce3af9f50cac/event/poke_seer.asm#L341 "What!? Incredible! I don't how understand how, but it is incredible! You are special. I can't tell where you met it, but it was at level (level). Am I good or what?"] (「こっ　これは　すごい！！　よくわからんが　すごい　はずじゃ！！　おぬし　なかなか　やるのぉ　どこで　であったのかは　わからんが⋯　であったときの　レベルは(level)！！　わしも　なかなか　やる　じゃろう？」)
+<s>Locations $60-$7C or #96-#124 return the same text as $7D but the location value is instead gibberish. English $60 does give an apparent translation of the Japanese $7D value, though ('''?????????????????Unknown''').</s>
+My question is: how should we organize [[List of locations by index number (Generation II)|the article]] to show this information, in your opinion? [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 15:22, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
+:The easy answer is it belongs on the [[Poké Seer]]'s<!--NOTE: I intend this to be a wanted page, please do not unlink it--> page. I'm thinking she deserves her own page, especially since it looks like the Seer says more than just where you met your Pokemon. Describing all that should make a respectable page (kind of like the [[Memory Girl]]).
+:For now, though, he's on the [[Cianwood City]] page, but I kind of think that should remain simpler than not. So for now, I'll just change the #0 entry on [[List of locations by index number (Generation II)]]; if there's a reason #0 said "Unknown" and #126 said "Can't tell" instead of both being the same, I can't imagine it right now and haven't read the Pokecrystal code enough to understand (or tested the indices myself). So if that's a mistake, I apologize. Anyway, to repeat: I think the Poke Seer deserves its own page. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:03, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
+::OK. I agree that she deserves her own article. In the meantime, I've updated the location index numbers article with more correct information and added the Japanese names for comparison sake. [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 19:35, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
+:::I've more or less said this in my edit summary, but if they're the same, there's not really any meaningful "comparison" to be made. That page isn't for translations of the location names, so it only muddles the page/table's purpose. If anyone needs to know all that, [[list of locations in other languages]] will pretty much suffice. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:37, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
+::::Yes, I got your point. I did it just because of the Japanese "Unknown", actually. Since it wasn't mentioned elsewhere, I went ahead and added all the others for good measure. [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 21:44, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
+== FRLG Link Battle music ==
+Where should we mention [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_whTzr0diG8 this] on the wiki? The OST article seems like a good choice but I'm not sure. [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 19:27, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
+:I'm not totally sure what, exactly, you want to mention? Maybe you can just write a sample here of what you would write on whatever [[OST]] page if you were to do so, and I'll be happy to think on an answer for you. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 21:18, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
+::FRLG uses the RSE Gym Leader battle music in Link Battles (it's in the ROM and has index number 0109<sub>h</sub>). It's trivial so I'm wondering which article would fit the best. [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 21:53, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
+:::Sounds like it either belongs on [[Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen Versions]] (Link Battles use RSE Gym music) or [[Pokémon Ruby & Pokémon Sapphire: Super Music Collection]] (the Gym music is also used in FRLG Link Battles). To the extent of my knowledge, at any rate. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 22:18, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
+::::I added it to the RS OST article under trivia :) [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 23:11, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
+== On misleading text ==
+<blockquote>You cannot say it misleads people into thinking the battery is at fault when the battery is only ONE option suggested.</blockquote>
+Why does this matter when the info is nonetheless incorrect? A lot of people also still think that the GBA games use the battery for the saves since that was true of the GB and GBC games, meaning that they would actually believe that all their stuff is gone because the RSE cartridge battery has run dry, which is not true. Yes, it suggests two causes but one of them is not even possible at all. [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 00:34, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
+:Um. What?
+:In asking "Why does [it] matter?", you're implicitly acknowledging the correctness of that quote of me. I don't understand what you think there is to argue then. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:55, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
+::Except I'm not. And you obviously felt the need to correct my wording, which means it bothered you. If it didn't matter, then you would've left it untouched. [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 01:23, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
+:::It bothered me because it's wrong, plain and simple.
+:::Your statement only allowed for ''one'' possibility. You said, "The English versions mislead the player into thinking that the internal battery '''''has''''' run dry"; but if a person can freely and reasonably make the right conclusion and not be "misled", then your statement is manifestly wrong. And it's eminently reasonable (or should be) that a person might read the English text in question and conclude that the back-up function simply failed; in no way do they '''''have''''' to conclude it's the battery. So it's simple: what you wrote is fundamentally inaccurate. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:46, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
+::::Because between "backup memory may be damaged" or "internal battery has run dry", there is only one valid possibility as the second one should be automatically ignored. You would have a point if the choices presented were "backup memory may be damaged" or "backup memory has worn out" as those are indeed the two valid possibilities in the context of the "save failed" issue. So no, it's not inaccurate or wrong. Period. [[User:SatoMew2|SatoMew2]] ([[User talk:SatoMew2|talk]]) 01:54, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
+:::::I thoroughly believe your logic above is flawed. I'm rather baffled by it, though, so I'm not really sure where I'd even start trying to persuade you of it.
+:::::But in the meantime, tell me this: is there anything in particular that you think is wrong about what I wrote when I edited your statement? Or do you just believe that there was nothing wrong with how you wrote it? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 02:03, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
+== Reath and Ferma ==
+About Reath and Ferma, I apologize for my mistake. I have played to the part of Pyrite Cave and realised that the two peons are in Miror B.'s cave after you defeat them. [[User:MotherOfArceus|MotherOfArceus]] ([[User talk:MotherOfArceus|talk]]) 00:46, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
+== Pokemon Conquest ==
+Hey, just letting you know I've been poking several staff members to try and ''finally'' get the Move templates we (mostly you :p) have designed off the ground and into the mainspace.
+I've moved forward with an old secondary project, a Warrior template, at [[User:Drake Clawfang/Sandbox|my sandbox]] (implemented [[User:Drake Clawfang/Sandbox2|here]]). Currently, other than addressing general design concerns from staff members that may come in, the main thing I want to adjust on it is the Links section; ideally, I'd like that clicking on the artwork redirects to the Pokemon's page, and to adjust the evolutionary charts under the artwork to accommodate stand-alone, two-stage, and three-stage evolutionary lines, as well as initial links that are perhaps stage one or stage two, instead of just basic. I'd also like to make all the boxes of uniform height, or at least spaced/stretched to the edges so it looks nicer. However, I've no idea how to do any of that. Would you be willing to take a look? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] ([[User talk:Drake Clawfang|talk]]) 17:53, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
+:Well, lemme start off with a few tips for future reference. '''One''': taking a cue from a lot of other templates on the wiki, the type parameters should really be "type1/2" (or "type/type2") instead of "primary/secondary type". '''Two''': you should usually give parameters some default value, in particular, like <nowiki>{{{type1|unknown}}}</nowiki>; this'll make your "unused" template more readable and understandable (even when you just preview the template), and depending on what you use for those default values it can also make it easy for people to notice if they've forgotten something. '''Three''': if there's some template(s) you want to use inside of yours (like MSP or roundies), you should ''probably'' just copy that template's code instead of actually calling the template (the main exception is colors, particularly when controlled by type parameters); this is because calling one template from inside another is...well, it's just kind of problematic (I'm not actually totally sure how, it's kinda techincal and complicated, but if it happens too much/in too many templates on a page, it can cause problems). '''Bonus''': I'd suggest sticking to the stat colors used in {{template|warlord}} (the main ones at least: Power/Wisdom/Charisma/Total).
+:The image linking is easy. You can just look at {{template|MSP}} which you're already using too (or, even better: [[Template:CSP]]).
+:As far as evolutions, looking at a warlord's info like [[Motonari]], it looks like those aren't concerned at all about evolution. I wonder if you should just do something like:
+{|
+|-
+| [[File:123CFS.png]] [[Scyther (Pokémon)|Scyther]]<br>
+[[File:212CFS.png]] [[Scizor (Pokémon)|Scizor]]<br>
+|}
+:instead of prioritizing one for a big picture. (Also, I definitely don't know enough about Conquest to know this myself, but if any of those non-Warlords can have different default Pokemon in different stories (what you're calling "Initial Link", I'm assuming?) like Motonari or [[Muneshige]], then you'll probably have to think up something different than you currently have there too.)
+:The boxes look pretty well laid out to me on the Munenori example. In other words, I don't understand what you want to improve with the heights, so I don't know how to help you there.
+:As a bonus tip, when you first want to make a template, you may not ''actually'' want to try to make a "template" from the start. If you're not real sure what you want (if you have any inkling you might be making lots of adjustments/edits/fixes =P ), then you may just want to start by making an actual, "working" example (like, make that Munenori table), without using any template stuff like parameters; just make a "hard-coded" table (or whatever you may be doing). That way, you can just keep previewing everything and keep trying to make it look good, without ever actually ''having'' to save anything. (You could save if you need to take a break, or you could also just copy it into a text file.) This can also make it real easy to just play around with different parts of your layout. When you're finally pretty sure it's good (maybe test it by changing up your example, like from Munenori to Akizane), ''then'' you can change what you've got so it can work as a template. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:46, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
+::Check on the default values and the template colors. For initial link, yeah, all Warlords you meet in the field have the same initial Pokemon across all stories except the initial one (which has unique mechanics and teams for enemies, anyway). For the box heights, I'm gonna leave it alone, it may not be a problem, hard to tell now. I'm going to try some more examples and see.
+::You misunderstand what I want with the image link (and what's "User:Tiddlywinks/CSP" for?). I know how to link the images fine, that's not the problem. I want the images to link to the Pokemon pages, not the file pages, so I click the image, it takes me to the Pokemon's page. Also, what if a Warrior has a Pokemon that doesn't evolve? Or it evolves twice? The template as it exists now cannot support that, and I need to know how to make it; ie, if there's no evolutions to display, it doesn't display two empty evolution fields with arrows pointing to them.
+::Utilizing the template or not for the Warlords instead of generic warriors is a horse of another color, since many of them have Legendary Pokemon in addition to their Perfect link, and the [[Hero]] has all the Eeveelutions. I'm not adverse to using the sprites over the artwork, but that's a minor issue and easy to change later.[[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] ([[User talk:Drake Clawfang|talk]]) 00:51, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
+::Okay, the sandbox now shows there's the overall problem of box dimensions not being fixed. I thought I did that, apparently not. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] ([[User talk:Drake Clawfang|talk]]) 00:59, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
+:::CSP is the Conquest minisprites. Both MSP and CSP make it so if you click the image it goes to the Pokemon page... Try clicking them. MSP: {{MSP|123|Scyther}}, CSP: {{CSP|123|Scyther}}. So just copy what they do. If that's not what you want, then yeah, I really am missing something. =P
+:::I wasn't suggesting using your template for the Warlords. All I said was, those didn't worry about marking evolutions. So I think it would be fine if you don't either. And I don't know of a reason it's super important. So, instead of putting one big picture and then an evolution line in those columns, just put simple lists there instead, like:
+{|
+|-
+| [[File:123CFS.png]] [[Scyther (Pokémon)|Scyther]]<br>
+[[File:212CFS.png]] [[Scizor (Pokémon)|Scizor]]<br>
+[[File:212CFS.png]] [[Scizor (Pokémon)|Scizor]]
+|}
+:::To make that real easy, you could even do it just like {{template|warlord}} does: just make it one parameter. I.e., when the template is used, it'll work something like: <code><nowiki>"perlink=[[File:123CFS.png]] {{p|Scyther}}<br>[[File:212CFS.png]] {{p|Scizor}}<br>[[File:212CFS.png]] {{p|Scizor}}"</nowiki></code>. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:11, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
+::::Guess I'll have to. Thanks. What about fixed dimensions? (EDIT - I presume your user template is in the pipe to be moved into the mainspace after three years of discussion?) [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] ([[User talk:Drake Clawfang|talk]]) 02:39, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
+:::::If you basically want to make the portrait area constant, change
+<pre>{| width="100%" style="margin:auto; text-align:center; border-collapse:collapse;"
+|[[File:{{{portrait|Conquest Nobunaga I.png}}}]]</pre>
+:::::so that width in the first line says some number (like "10px") instead of "100%" and add a height to the second line using the same number (supposing you want it square).
+:::::Also, *I've* hardly been here three years (certainly not active), much less any of my templates. I can't tell you how they're progressing as far as being mainspaced. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 03:26, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
+::::::I know, I just mean it's been almost a full year since the move templates were done, and apparently staff is still discussing them. It's frustrating that so much hard work and enthusiasm is being squandered in sandboxes because of bureaucracy.
+::::::I've got a friend from another Wiki helping me with this, it's going well. Thank you, though. Your input does mean a lot to me; you're one of only two people who's actually been supportive at all. :( [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] ([[User talk:Drake Clawfang|talk]]) 03:43, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
+:::::::In some fashion, all the stuff that staff is supposed to decide on (mainspacing, moving, deleting, merging...) has just gotten almost "out of control". They're working to get all caught up, but it certainly is frustrating for the rest of us who can only sit and watch on the sidelines without being able to contribute or hardly even witness in any real way. If you wanna try and "bug" people, that's certainly an option; but to an extent, you do have to realize that they can't address everything immediately for the time being.
+:::::::But anyway, glad to help. ^_^ [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:14, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
+::::::::For now I'm good with it. If you wanna edit it or make your own for modifications, or have any other ideas for adjusting it, just drop me a line. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] ([[User talk:Drake Clawfang|talk]]) 04:20, 21 October 2015 (UTC)