User talk:Tiddlywinks/Archive 2

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Numbered Lists

Thanks for the heads up on numbered lists. They are not included on the Manual of style, so I was not aware of them. Now I know! :-) --Marlofkark (talk) 18:42, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

No problem. =) Tiddlywinks (talk) 19:15, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Blue Tags

It's been awhile since I played as a male character, but I could have sworn that the blue tags on their clothing was exactly the same as the blue ones for the female clothing. Stripes and all. I could be wrong and I'll leave the decision up to you. Also, thanks for filling in some of the Snowbelle City stuff. :)(Voltdetector (talk) 04:14, 22 September 2014 (UTC))

I've got both genders on my games at the moment, so I'm certain the blues aren't the same. It's a bit techno-y or something around the corners for the male. I'd be happy to give it some other descriptor, I just don't know what'd be clear enough. In the meantime, it doesn't really need a differentiator (like brown for females did—for which "angular" is much better than "stripes" btw, thanks), so it'll be fine. Tiddlywinks (talk) 04:28, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
Alright, I trust you on that. And yeah, I guess it doesn't need a descriptor of it's own. Voltdetector (talk) 04:35, 22 September 2014 (UTC)


I have responded to you here. There was nothing excessive with doing one edit on each half of the listings. In fact, it's better to save the first half so that, if a mistake is saved in the second half, it can be rolled back to and tried again. CycloneGU (talk) 01:43, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

I kind of feel the issue was resolved and everyone's basically happy and I don't particularly need to say anything to Voltdetector, so I don't really want to respond on Voltdetector's page. So:
Primarily: whatever Voltdector wants to say the issue was, I prefer to listen to that over someone else's speculation.
Similarly, there are various reasons for (or against) many things, but when you're just grasping at possible justifications for someone else's actions, I don't feel like I can really give an appropriate response. So I'm just going to refrain from addressing your other points. I'd be happy to discuss them if it ever becomes the point of a specific situation in the future. Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:44, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, I'm not trying to start anything with that (Voltdetector did also tell me in chat that all is well), I was just pointing out that there was in fact nothing wrong with what he did. It's not like he edited the same single section five times. Editing male once and female once is acceptable, and in fact I would even encourage that as a method of saving some of the work; you never know when something will happen like the power going out, and at least that way SOME of the work is saved to reduce the amount to redo later.
So yeah, no hard feelings. =) CycloneGU (talk) 06:40, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
If you have to be away or you're worried about accidents, you could just save your edit in a text file.
You can point out that there's nothing wrong, but I didn't say that there was, either. I just wanted (personally) Voltdetector to reduce the number of edits, especially since there was little reason to be doing them separately. And there's nothing wrong with me doing that either...
FWIW, you haven't swayed me about what I did in the least. I may well do it again. I just prefer to see fewer overall edits. But please understand that I have no intention of coming down on everyone who makes a couple of edits in a row to one or two random pages.
(And I'm sorry if I do or did come off a bit strong. I may well be a bit argumentative, but do be assured that I take nothing personally here. No hard feelings. ^_^ ) Tiddlywinks (talk) 07:37, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
In that case, we simply have a difference in our editing styles. There is nothing wrong with using two edits on a page like that. Saying you "wanted (personally) Voltdetector to reduce the number of edits" because you think "there was little reason to be doing them separately" is your personal opinion. I was not speculating; I was saying there was nothing wrong with his editing. If you were to tell me that I should not be editing in that fashion, I would sure tell you where to put that opinion, and it wouldn't be on my talk page.
So yes, you do come off rather strong there. All I'm saying is don't harass other users for their editing styles because you have a different editing style than they do. That's all I'm asking you to do. Spend the time improving the Wiki. I've been a Wikipedia editor (before coming to Bulbapedia) since March of 2008; for that reason, I have the experience to back up my opinion. Yes, I sometimes have made numerous edits because I missed a mistake when reviewing; it happens. I even own up to it in edit summaries. But this wasn't a mistake, it was two separate sets of work in the same area. There's a difference. Don't harass users for trying to improve the Wiki; we'd rather have them improving it than being scared off. I'm at least glad that you've worked it out with Voltdetector, but keep that in mind for the future. That's all. =) CycloneGU (talk) 20:38, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
Please do not characterize what I did as "harassment"; and do not either forejudge what I have not yet done (and potentially may never). I place much more value on judgement of actual things over hypotheticals and apprehensions. I fully believe I am capable of broaching this subject without scaring someone off. And you may be sure that I do keep that in mind. Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:20, 23 September 2014 (UTC)


Thank-you. --Dettalk 12:33, 23 September 2014 (UTC)


How do you make a template collapsible? Also, thanks for the information you gave me. See ya, --SirFinkleBottom 19:22, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

You mean a table? It goes something like here (click Edit for the section and then search for "expandable"). A slightly different and more complicated example is on Burmy (it's easiest to just click "edit this page" and search for class="collapsible"). But if you were thinking about using it on Days of the week, I wouldn't say it's necessary. Most of the individual generation sections are a quite reasonable length IMO.
BTW (just in case), when I suggested you update and save "all the days" at once, I didn't necessarily mean the whole page. It's perfectly fine to update part of it if you're going to be gone for a few hours or something. (Although it's also still nice if you at least update by whole generations, rather than leaving a couple days incomplete somewhere; it'll just look nicer to anyone else visiting the page.)I see you have updated the whole of GSC now. Great. ^_^ ...I'm not sure if I just missed it or if I started my response here before you saved that or what. =P Tiddlywinks (talk) 20:04, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Doduo and Dodrio

I believe the trivia regarding the coloring of Doduo and Dodrio's necks is important because due to how the gender differences for this evolution line was made, the official artwork depicted a male Doduo evolving into a female Dodrio. --PKMNAdventurer (talk) 01:57, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

I removed it because Funktastic~! did. She's who you should talk to. Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:02, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Re:The Preview Button

Sorry about that, I do it while I read the chapter and sometimes I clicked it to fast before finishing the chapter. User:Animaltamer712:09, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Subjective Editing/Blocking you keep doing

I have to ask, why are you always erasing edits to things that you personally do not like, on here? The last thing I edited was White Forest, in order to warn readers that if you take too long to get there, you will be unable to catch any Pokemon there. This info was NOT in the article beforehand. And you erased every single edit I made in there, for no reason, at all. Why wouldn't you want people to know not to take too long to enter White Forest? This has been a problem with many people. Also, it is completely accurate that altering the DS clock will reduce the timer to White Forest's occupants. Currently so far, there is NOTHING warning people about how White Forest's countdown timer works. Nor is there even any info about how long the timer takes, which you also erased. Is this a power/authority thing? Why wouldn't you want to warn players about that? Also, there is NO WAY to fix this glitch now, and Entralink no longer works. White Forest in Pokemon White is now permanently unable to bring new residents in. And if there is some way that this can be fixed that none of us know about, why wouldn't you put that in there, too?

Sometimes, Bulbapedia can be a good website for info. But a LOT of crap you guys do is highly subjective and biased. It's bad enough you guys show a clear disdain for the older games and often like to retcon information. Like the whole name of "Ethan" and all the inaccurate retconning done with that and turning everything from Gold/Silver/Crystal into HeartGold/SoulSilver, even though they ARE DIFFERENT GAMES! HG/SS isn't identical to G/S/C, nor do they work the same way. Yet, Bulbapedia does not give one damn. Gold in Generation II is NOT "ethan" in Generation IV, nor can you get an Ambipom in Crystal version.

This thing with White Forest is another thing I don't see the point of restricting/blocking valuable information from. I think the info some of us "non-veteran" contributors put out there is valuable and "not being part of the insiders club" shouldn't block that info from being put on here. It's my opinion that you guys are out-of-line and having a "community based" website where only a few elite members get to control the information is no different than media sources with an agenda.

Can you guys at least EXPLAIN why you do these things you do, instead of just going "I don't like others contributing, so I'm going to keep erasing everything and banning people who fight me." The whole website loses quality when you guys keep being biased like this. - unsigned comment from Mcheetah (talkcontribs)

I'm happy to explain what I do. But please do not expect me to answer for the actions of others.
You claim I erased your edits for no reason. I did give reasons.
"Also, it is completely accurate that altering the DS clock will reduce the timer to White Forest's occupants." I did not say (or mean to) that it was inaccurate. I'm not 100% sure what my exact thoughts were at that point, but right now, I can tell you that I'd be happy to see that in the main article (i.e., not as "Trivia"), but ideally it should also quantify exactly how changing the clock affects the occupants. (This is probably why I didn't put it in myself.) Particularly: is there a set penalty to the occupants' parameters (and how much?) for changing the clock, or if it's set forward by X days does it just act like you haven't interacted with the occupants for X days? (Maybe the effect is different depending on if you go forwards or backwards?)
"there is NOTHING warning people about how White Forest's countdown timer works"? White Forest#Demographics.
In general, to your concern about warning people: Bulbapedia is not a FAQ or walkthrough. Bulbapedia is a wiki. For the most part, we should not be making "recommendations". In any case, the information users need to understand that is contained in the article already. "When the player enters the forest for the very first time, the total number of residents is determined by the number of days it took the player to reach White Forest." (That, with the table in Demographics.)
What glitch are you speaking of? Are you confusing the Entralink with the Pokémon Global Link? The Entralink is a local wireless function, not over the internet. I just now recruited someone from White Forest into Black City, so I'm quite sure you're wrong about that much, at least. (I do not wish to try the other direction at the moment, but there is no reason it should be any different.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:38, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Series 2

Sorry for the slow update, I was ill this weekend and didn't work on the card pages like I had planned to. Anyway, Pokémon Trading Cards series 2 is halfway updated lol. (I'm not feeling up to finishing the rest today XD) I uploaded all the images I have, though, you can find them here if you want to go ahead with your scanning now. Thanks for waiting! --ZestyCactus 05:41, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. I'll try to see what I can supplement there this week and maybe get it up by the weekend. ^_^ Tiddlywinks (talk) 12:54, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Heavy Anime Pokemon

Oh okay then, I was just going through to see if anyone had a problem with reason to remove them. Yeah, I only did the up to the 5th I thought going past the 3rd was a bit much. I felt like just having Snorlax seemed obvious so I thought Steelix and Torterra at least should have been included to make it seem like a more solid fact. I get what you mean about seconds being irrelevant.

Evil Paragon (talk) 15:32, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Quick Questions

Do you think the clothing page needs to have pictures of the different types of tags? Because I found a rip of them on a Spriter's Resource awhile ago and I was going to ask you about it before doing anything, since you seem to be more of an expert on this than me. Voltdetector (talk) 05:30, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

It would certainly be much more convenient to use an image of the tags in the tables than an improvised text description. Of course, you may want to double-check with staff on the Archives to make sure the images you found are okay to upload. Tiddlywinks (talk) 05:43, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
I don't really know which of them to talk to. I'm kinda new to stuff around here still. >_< Voltdetector (talk) 05:59, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
From a quick check, hHt14 seems to be fairly reliably active recently. You can post on his talk page and with a little luck you should have a response within 24 hours. If it happens to drag on too long, though, you can always just check the Recent changes log for active staff and try to ask someone you see there. (You may want to check their contributions to see if they're frequently active or just there on a rare occasion, just in case they slip away before you leave your message.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 06:11, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
Alrighty, thanks. Voltdetector (talk) 06:23, 2 December 2014 (UTC)


In the game, the old man who talks about Mirage Spots does not capitalize the 's' if that helps. But most places Capitalize it. Yamitora1 (talk) 00:54, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Just to be sure, does he actually use "Mirage spots" with a capital 'M' in the middle of a sentence somewhere? And when you say most places, do you just mean places like fan sites? If so, we should of course follow the games first and foremost. Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:17, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
Mirage is capitalized, and I mean both fan and I think official sites/social media mentions. However, that might be simple personal preference for whoever is in control of those sites/accounts.
Anyways, here is the old man's Dialog
They say, here in Hoenn, there are places 
called Mirage spots.
One does not simply walk into a Mirage spot.
Not to mention that these places also
appear and disappear mysteriously.
in both instances that he mentions Mirage Spots. he Capitalizes the M every time. from what I see in screen shots from the original games, he use to say Mirage Island in all caps.
Likewise, another man inside the same house in Pacifidlog Town says
Mirage spots...
It must be the weather conditions that seem to
make the visible at some times and not others.
Or are they truly appearing and disappearing?

So I guess we should stick with Mirage spots as the capitalization of the term. Yamitora1 (talk) 08:02, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
Alright, thanks! I've gone and fixed it around the wiki, then. Tiddlywinks (talk) 14:04, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Critical Captures

You have undone my changes at the Catch rate article. Please have a look at the discussion page of Dragonfree (talk) --- Pokémon Questions? -- 13:49, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Hey guy, how about talking to me instead of abusing me in the editing comment section and doing edit war like you have done previously with Marnix?
Can you make a comprehensible explanation why it should be 65536 (=2^16) instead of 65535 (=2^16-1) like it always is? 65536 also is inconsistent with the other generations.
The other point is the fraction of that formula. You insist on 1/4 which means that the total capture chance is in Generation V like in IV or VI. But nevertheless you claimed different probabilities in the Critical Capture section which is even inconsistent with the whole rest of the article. If you can't explain that, I'll soon change it back. --- Pokémon Questions? -- 15:26, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

I am going to copy your response from Dragonfree's talk page to Talk:Catch rate#Critical catch shakes in Gen VI. That's where it belongs. Please continue the discussion there.
Also, I would ask you to please be very careful in the future about linking a different user and their talk page like you did above. It looks exactly like a signature, and when your actual signature doesn't look like a usual signature, it is very easy to miss your real signature and assume the comment is from Dragonfree. Thank you.
Now, regarding your second comment...
1) Please refrain from making this personal (and/or try not to take it so personally).
2) Regarding the rest...allow me to take a little more time to respond to that. Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:34, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
Regarding 65535 or 65536: addressed at Talk:Catch rate#Critical catch shakes in Gen VI.
Regarding 1/4: let's lay this out, since your comments above don't seem quite right to me.
(The below will all assume throwing a regular Poke Ball at Kyurem (or Giratina) at full health with no statuses)
In Gen III-IV, the shake probability b is about 25%. With four shake checks, this makes the final capture probability 0.39%.
If b in Gen V uses a fourth-root, then b is about 25%. With three shake checks in Gen V, this makes the final capture probability about 1.5%.
If b in Gen V uses a third-root, then b is about 15.8% and (with three shake checks) the final capture probability is 0.39%.
Now, if you would suggest that Gen V is probably not a fourth-root because it makes the final capture probability different from what it was: I cannot accept that as reason enough to say it uses a third-root. I am very sympathetic to that reasoning, but it proves nothing. The developers could have made a mistake, or decided they wanted it that way, or who knows what. If you think the Gen V formula must use a third-root, try to prove it.
The way to prove it might be to find a Pokemon that could reliably be captured (maybe given sleep, and/or a certain type of Poke Ball) if the Gen V formula uses a fourth-root but which may break free if the formula uses a third-root. I'm sorry to say I'm not eager to do that work myself (though I perhaps it's not really that difficult), but I would be overjoyed if you could find such a case that we could test to find out for sure whether the formula should say 1/4 or 1/3. Tiddlywinks (talk) 16:32, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

You pointed out the key aspect for Generation V: Is it a fourth-root formula (call it 4RF) which makes a different result compared to all the other generations or is it a third-root formula (call it 3RF) so that instead only the probability of a single shake check changed? I believe in the 3RF. Well, the simple reason would be: four shake checks --> fourth-root, three shake checks --> third root.
you cannot proof it by catching a Pokémon reliably. Both formulas would give a 100% chance. So you must catch Pokémon (in Generation V of course) that can break free, but don't have a too low chance. Example:

Catching with Sleep using Dusk Ball: Basculin (catch rate 25), 3RF = 28.6% --- 4RF = 39.1% --- Difference = 10.5%

But you can also catch a Pokémon with 255 catch rate just using a Poké Ball. The difference will always be maximal about 10.55% for some mathematical reason.

Catching without ailment using Poké Ball: Patrat (catch rate 255), 3RF = 33.3% --- 4RF = 43.8% --- Difference = 10.5%

These 10.5% make the difference. --- Pokémon Questions? -- 18:18, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Well, just for the record, this is solved in Talk:Catch rate#Critical catch shakes in Gen VI.
Also, you should really follow the custom of indenting your replies one further than the previous response. It makes the conversation easier to follow. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:50, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
Aha. I answered here because you answered here. --- Pokémon Questions? -- 19:02, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

ORAS Berries and Lumiose City Juice Shoppe

I was wondering if you would like to add ORAS berries to the Juice Shoppe info. I can put some berries on throw away pokemon, trade them to your game and we can find out what class the berries are and their effect when mixed together. Yamitora1 (talk) 23:58, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Totally, that'd be super cool. ^_^ I'll send you a PM. Tiddlywinks (talk) 00:07, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Designs section for ORAS page

At least three areas have had noteworthy changes that makes them qualify for this section as minor notes. Hoenn Safari Zone (since the area is nowhere near the same as the original games), Scorched Slab (Major expansion), and Mt. Pyre (minor change of where the exit to the exterior is). I can easily handle Mt. Pyre since it is just a minor update, but I feel you are better qualified for the Safari Zone and Scorched Slab since you are better at compressing notes than I am. -Tyler53841 (talk) 03:15, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

I don't actually have ORAS... Right now, to me, Mt. Pyre sounds like such a small change I don't personally care about noting it (after I play ORAS, I could think differently). The Safari Zone's geography is not explained on this site well enough for me to know what to say, and I don't want to spoil myself as much as watching a YouTube video would do. (But if that'll be mentioned under Design, it might also be best to move the Safari Game point out from Mechanics and mix it into the Design point.) I can do Scorched Slab fine, though. Tiddlywinks (talk) 07:46, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Need some help

If you check out my recent addition to the Sea Mauville page, it talks about the procedure to unlocking Spiritomb. Could you help me think of a way of adding it to the ORAS page as I need to think of the best way to keep it short and simple for that page. Also if you need to look at the footage directly I can provide a Youtube link which helped me earlier being I performed it on my game myself. -Tyler53841 (talk) 02:32, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

I think if you get into details that are too fine, there can be a lot that doesn't necessarily need to be added to the ORAS changes. I'm not sure what you think should be added for Spiritomb. If what you basically want is that Spiritomb is catchable, IMO it's basically the same for a number of other non-Hoenn Pokemon that can be caught (after you get the National Dex I think?) in various places, and Spiritomb isn't that special out of all those. (If it's that it's catchable at Sea Mauville, that doesn't seem like an important detail.) It seems there's nothing currently noting the new non-Hoenn encounters so if you wanted, you could put that in. Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:54, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Encounter rates

Hi, you know the exact porcentage of rates in X and Y, because it's annoying see letters than numbers --HoopsterJohn (talk) 01:52, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

I do not know, but I agree that it's very annoying to not know. I had planned to ask it of someone(s) soon. Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:54, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I'm currently working on that. It will take some time though. Adamws (talk) 02:38, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
You have numbers? Or maybe you mean you're asking? If you need any help with anything like transforming the raw data to Bulbapedia-usable data, I'd be happy to help if I can. Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:45, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I'm just going to the area and encountering Pokémon in game. If you want to help, you can start in the east part of Kalos and work westward. Adamws (talk) 03:05, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I've honestly done some of that already. =P But it'll be much more reliable to get exact numbers (and I'm still not sure if such empirical data is really acceptable). Since they're out for ORAS, I can't really imagine why the same data for X/Y isn't public. I'll go ahead and make an inquiry now, in fact. Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:12, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Ok, you do that. I'll keep doing it my way to get at least close to the percentages. If you find the exact percentages, feel free to correct the errors on the ones that I have done. Adamws (talk) 03:20, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
It sounds like XY encounter data was known, but I have no idea where it might have been posted. At any rate, I've got that data now. I'll do some work to turn it into a convenient format to browse and fill in Bulbapedia's tables, and then I'll get to updating them.
Adamws, in the meantime, since you have ORAS, maybe you could check my recent contributions for the places where I need someone to confirm if encounters are possible or to determine which encounters appear where exactly (or et cetera), and uncomment and/or label that stuff as appropriate? (FYI I finished with ORAS at 14:00 on Dec 18, and I started it at 19:56 on Dec 17.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 14:02, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Soaring Stunts Table

lol no I'm not trying to avoid trying to spell them out, but I think having Forward and backward/backwards is not as eye appealing.

You actually had the same thought I had about ↑↓ instead of ← →. Before your edit, I was actually changing them to the up and down arrows while adding another stunt (err I guess? does breaking count?), and changing Stunt to Maneuver and Effect to Description. I want to try and make the table as Aesthetically eye appealing as possible.

So how does this look, and I couldn't figure out how to do it, but what if we put notes at the bottom showing a legend for the arrows?

Maneuver Description Combination
Bucking The Pokémon begins to thrash while the rider lets go. The rider then attempts to maintain their balance on its back. A or ↓ + A
Braking The Pokémon makes a sudden stop and pulling back.
Accelerate Increases the Pokémon's speed. B + ↑
Ascend The Pokémon pitches upward, increasing its altitude. X or ↑ + X
Descend The Pokémon pitches downward, decreasing its altitude. Y or ↑ + Y
Inverted Decline The Pokémon pitches upward, while simultaneously decreasing its altitude and drifting down in a backward motion. ↓ + X
Inverted Incline The Pokémon pitches downward, while simultaneously increasing its altitude and rising in a backward motion. ↓ + Y
Somersault The Pokémon takes an abrupt nosedive, spinning downward in a corkscrew fashion and then righting itself after completing a 180° flip. ↑ + L
Loop the Loop The Pokémon pitches upwards, inverting itself and the rider in an arch before nosediving and completing a 360° flip. ↑ + R
Scoot Back The Pokémon wriggles several paces backward. ↑ + A
Barrel-roll Dash The Pokémon accelerates forward, spinning to make one complete rotation. ↑ + B
Zoom climb The Pokémon accelerates rapidly upwards while rolling into a spin. ↑ + Y & A
Dive-bomb Dash The Pokémon accelerates rapidly downward while performing a spinning dive. ↑ + Y & B
Backtrack The Pokémon will pitch upwards 90°, break into an erect spin making 3 rotations, followed by leveling off at another 90°. This forces itself and the rider to reface the Hoenn region. Reaching the Map's edge

 Circle-Pad-Right.png  B_online.png

Personally I would much rather have actual button pictures, but I'm not sure how to do it, or if the staff would accept it. Yamitora1 (talk) 03:52, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure if a legend is needed if up/down really do correspond well to forward/back. Those images above would definitely need to be shrunk somewhat if they were going to be placed in the table (or basically anywhere), but personally, I don't really feel any need to improve the aesthetics of describing controls. I like ↑, X, B, etc just fine. (And if those images are representative of what you have, you would seem to be missing L/R, and it simply wouldn't be acceptable to use images for some of the controls but not all.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 04:05, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
Well I would shrink them naturally, and I do have the R and L buttons made,, just not uploaded to my 4shared account. So should I go ahead and add this table to the article? Yamitora1 (talk) 04:11, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
...Now, yeah. =P Sure. Tiddlywinks (talk) 04:21, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Choice of words

As to why I chose "disables and hides", it was to clarify that the option is not just greyed out (disabled) but also hidden. But your rewording is better, though. SatoMew 00:51, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Old discussions

Hello, I need a clarification on the "Please refrain from resurrecting discussions older than 6 months" rule. The discussions on a wiki aren't forum threads, and if they aren't a very specific question to one particular user, it doesn't grow old and can still be consulted. Old content is still consulted and the discussion may still be a question the user wanted to read. Adding precision more than 6 months later isn't for the original poster but for the next users asking themselves the same question, and thus there isn't any "resurrecting". Otherwise, why aren't discussions removed after 6 months? Because it can still answer the next user. So exactly why forbidding more precision to be added? (Besides the obvious readability of a heavily discussed page of course) Yes, I know there's a line about that in the FAQ, but it's very general and the exception is subjective. So I'd like to know the reasons. -- Gpm (talk) 09:27, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

If a question is years old, it is very unlikely any user is still checking for answers to it...
The user's question where you responded actually was answered. Q: "Why does it say sunny instead of night?" A: "Because that's just how it works." Your comment didn't add anything significant, just trivia at best (which, IMO and FYI, would be fine on the mainspace page). If the thrust of the question was answered, then no tangential additional "precision" is really needed if many months have passed; if they had wanted clarification, they would have asked, and if anyone else wants it, they can make a new question. Tiddlywinks (talk) 09:57, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
I often check discussions to see if a question I have has already be asked, and I read other questions because they can be interresting as well, even if it's not my question of the moment. I assume other users do the same and I thought it would be nice to add some precision. In the case we're speaking about, you are right it's really just trivia, no problem I understand. Thank you for your answer! -- Gpm (talk) 11:40, 25 December 2014 (UTC)


...yeah, I guess it slipped my mind on that one. I was being careful when doing the other two; notice the writing on Route 119.

And knowing this is all needed to get TM93 Wild Charge bugs me. I was going to go on a TM collecting spree today for the final ones. Now I might as well train for Victory Road. Still have four TMs to find in Mirage Spots too, so I hope I have good Streetpass results in a couple of days. CycloneGU (talk) 20:19, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Starters and Fangs

If you have a bunch of Fire Fang encounters for Mudkip, I'm going to consider testing complete. I think this is like the elemental monkeys in Unova, though it doesn't in all cases cover weaknesses as the monkeys did (and I didn't really use them LOL). I have the edit ready to go. CycloneGU (talk) 05:19, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Rematch Data

I'm moving on to this project. I'm convinced from my own game experience, however, that rematch data is not in a set order, but based on where you are in the story. For instance, I rematched Dylan's Lv.18 Doduo (Route 117) three consecutive times, and much later my first "rematch" against Gabby and Ty was at Lv.41 when I was expecting a Lv.29 battle. How should we document rematch data for the time being? Should I just put information for each Route as I come across it in my userspace and we can decide from there how to handle it? I think I prefer having separate tables, and then each sub-header can say something like, "After obtaining the 'Blank' Badge" followed by the appropriate data. I can show what I mean after I have some data. CycloneGU (talk) 08:17, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

It looks like their RSE Trainer entries have a more or less similar problem, insofar as only one battle is displayed even though it appears they may have different teams.
Rematches in general aren't handled terribly gracefully and/or uniformly (I believe?) on Bulbapedia. For past generations, there have been devices like the VS Seeker, and if that icon is in their row, I've come to understand that to imply that you should visit the Trainer class page to see their rematch data. For Gen VI/ORAS/Gabby and Ty, that's not really applicable, though...
I would say yeah, list whatever battles are applicable. And for each "rematch" or battle after the first, include a note.
Trainer Pokémon
Interviewers Gabby & Ty
マリとダイ Mari and Dai
Reward: $2,320
Rematch, with 6 badges
  Magneton Lv.29
No item
  Loudred Lv.29
No item
Trainers with a PokéNav by their names will be registered in the Trainer's Eyes or Match Call function after the first battle, and may have a rematch with the player with higher-level Pokémon.

...or something like that. (I imagine that'll work a little better than I think it does here in a whole table.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 08:46, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
That's not a bad idea there. I was planning to just use a new sub-header "Rematches" under the originating table, and still within, say, "Generation VI" (the extra set of equal signs). Doing that and your labeling idea would allow all rematches to be in the same table, and grouped by when they occur. Of course, each "group" can also take place in unique tables, so we have "Rematches with the Knuckle Badge", "Rematches with the Balance Badge", "Rematches after entering the Hall of Fame", and so on, meaning each set of rematches is a table. On the Rematches page itself, after I confirm specific data (such as when they start occurring; I'm now holding a Stone Badge in Alpha Sapphire and have not seen rematches yet), I can edit that in there. As for Gabby and Ty data, using that example, I will be doing special research on them. CycloneGU (talk) 16:08, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Well I got rematch data eventually after getting the Stone Badge when my Alpha Sapphire arrived, so it is only a matter of time, luckily it would be as painstakingly long for a rematch to occur compared to Gen. III, so give it some time and keep an eye on your Trainer's Eyes because once the color changes from black to white, then you know it is ready to go. -Tyler53841 (talk) 16:21, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Indeed. And given how often Dylan wanted to fight me (and lose again) with the same Lv.18 Doduo, they will want a rematch again right away, so it will make it very simple to catalog all the data. I'm guessing the rematches begin when you clear the Rusturf Tunnel events with Team Aqua/Magma since you said you only have the Stone Badge, and I have no rematches yet (not even Calvin on 102!). CycloneGU (talk) 16:48, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
I seem to be on the right path. The first rematch request has appeared from Lass Haley on Route 104. Time to see if her team has improved any before I go visit the Devon President. CycloneGU (talk) 17:14, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

[Outdent] Got my first rematch, and I was wrong, it was Cindy. Not Haley. Though Haley I think wants one, too, so I think Cindy just wanted one after I re-entered 104. In any case, I still have to battle Winston, then I can move Haley and Winston up there as well. What are your thoughts to the format I have used here on my copy of the 104 data? Note that "Other Rematches" is strictly for storing data that is not yet personally confirmed. CycloneGU (talk) 17:32, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

That's a whole lot of reinventing the wheel. There's nothing wrong with the current format, just change the tt text to "After # of Badges/entering Hall of Fame". glikglak 17:55, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
That is the other option, but sometimes the wheel can be tuned up as well. I'm just looking for opinion on the proposed format. I do agree that it would add a lot of headers at the expense of making smaller tables, so the question is whether we prefer a cleaner look or for all data for one generation to remain in a single table. This is why I put the idea in the user space for now, and I intend to make edits to the mainspace style for the time being so that the data researched is not lost. At the very least, having a rematches header provides a break in the data that I think is needed even if we don't split off groups of rematches. CycloneGU (talk) 17:58, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
I think I agree with Glik. As it stands, I have nothing but questions about why Cindy is in a section "Rematches after obtaining the Stone Badge" and also in "Other Rematches". If she just starts offering rematches after the Stone Badge, then (if you're gonna have a rematch section) all of her rematches should just be there and the first should say something like "First rematch, any time after obtaining the Stone Badge". (That's a big "if" for me. Like I said, I don't get it, so I'm making a big guess.)
I'm also, as a rule, not fond of "tt" when other notation is possible (such as I demonstrated above). On the other hand, I may be sympathetic to objections to my example format, and since the "tt" becomes repetitive (first, second, third rematches...), it's not completely terrible... Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:27, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
I think the concerns of TT is for mobile users, who would not have a mouse to hover around and bring up the tooltips. I think it's best to try to avoid them when possible as well, but in some cases that might just be difficult to do, and an additional note in the prose would be useful for those users so that both userbases are covered.
I'll revisit the userspace version once it's complete. Keep in mind I just created it, and the reason it's set up as such ("Other Rematches", which normally would not exist) is so that I can move data around once I confirm it. I'm still doing editing on the other 132 pages (wherever there are rematches, anyway) in the meantime, but I'm only doing 104 under my suggestion, and it will be better seen once completed. CycloneGU (talk) 18:36, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
The text underneath does look better, but I don't think it'd really works when rematches get condensed (see Cindy and Winston in Emerald). glikglak 18:48, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
I'm on my way to conduct the initial battle with Winston right now as I never did that, so I'm hoping to unlock the rematch right away before heading south to Dewford. I already have Omega Ruby with all eight Badges, so I'm using Alpha Sapphire for this research (up to seven Badges) and will be doing the Hall of Fame research using Omega Ruby afterwards. After I get the Winston rematch in, I'll save an edit with their first rematches and the "Other" section will shrink. I'll do a second edit later with the second batch of rematches once I know when they occur, but I think that's after the second Badge. Heck, I have to have more battles in Petalburg Forest right now, as well.
I've been considering using this same page for ALL of my rematch data, but for now that might be overkill (even if I do get a Userspace policy exclusion). I'll just edit on each page with Badge requirements and use 104's data for prepping the format. I'll be prepping it for both Tiddlywink's idea and my split tables proposal, and in the end we can figure it out from there if any changes are made. It would be nice to get something more user-friendly for sitewide use. CycloneGU (talk) 18:53, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
...And that's kind of what I meant before, that rematches are not handled uniformly. =P I looked at Route 118 before, and that doesn't list any rematches. I think Route 104's format looks alright, though. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:56, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
118 probably wasn't researched yet, and I was going to start researching 111 since I saw the same problem there before making the discovery that everyone suddenly had Lv.43-44 teams. Hence why I've added this to my projects. I'm going around everywhere after major plot points and Badges earned to find rematch information. I'm playing Alpha Sapphire right now in a way I normally don't; by taking a single team and overleveling them, and adding a couple here and there who basically sit back and watch most of the time until needed. I already have Sceptile and haven't even gone south yet. CycloneGU (talk) 19:00, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
"Research" my foot. (Absolutely no offense intended.) The RSE Trainers have had rematch data on their Trainer class pages for some while, but the route doesn't list those. That's the rub. Tiddlywinks (talk) 19:03, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

(resetting indent)Yeah, some routes' were just never added, for some reason. And it's not like every Trainer's rematch teams and what triggers them aren't known. They're all in the guide. glikglak 19:07, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Tiddlywinks, I'm looking at OR/AS data, which is completely missing. I'm not (yet) looking at Gen. III.
Glik: I agree, it was easy for this to be found, but I think the way the rematches are now done (see 111-VI now, there are two sets listed and nothing in between or afterwards) has left large batches of data unfound, which is what I'm correcting.
Right now, every single Trainer on my rematch card is looking for me, and I still have to chop down trees on 116 to get a few there. I'm hopping around for info. CycloneGU (talk) 19:16, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Tiddlywinks, I used your idea at Petalburg_Woods. I decided I'll use that immediately and just quietly do my own format (including that in it) for 104 separately. CycloneGU (talk) 19:30, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Don't go altering any formats until we can actually agree on something. Any changes will most likely have to be done to every game, so keep them uniform until then. glikglak 21:01, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
To be fair, I'll have to do a lot of userspace edits to accommodate data until something can be agreed upon, then. I like and agreed with what Tiddlywinks suggested, hence why I started using it. I'm not pushing my own opinion on anything else for the time being.
Will there be a problem if I use my userspace to store personally confirmed data until something can be agreed upon? I can move data from there to the mainspace when a format is agreed, and we can even use the page I create (to accommodate all of the rematch data in fact) to grab data to eventually be used in that new format. I'll use Tiddlywinks' idea in my userspace for now and copy the reverted edits to there for starting points. CycloneGU (talk) 21:25, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Your userspace can essentially be used for whatever you want. If you're really gonna worry about making too many edits, though, you can always write down your data in a text file or something and save it there until the end of the day or something.
FWIW, I'd likely side with keeping the current format, between the hassle of changing it everywhere and it generally being adequate. But maybe not; especially once I've actually expereinced this feature myself. (Rematches have generally been one of the last things I've ever cared about, though...) Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:55, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Having five rematches in one table entry and forcing people to rely on tooltips is not a good method of presentation. I know I'm taking on a lot of potential projects, but once a potential new format is agreed upon for OR/AS (starting with OR/AS as it's incomplete), we can move it back for R/S/E as well on the same pages, and move it to other regions at a later time. I can handle all OR/AS rematch data as I'm literally combing the game right now; I'll just have to remember to check EVERYTHING.
I'm creating a userspace page with all I've confirmed so far and notating it at the top, even stating I'll work on it some via Notepad to attempt to reduce the number of edits (I have to bring them in after a few to make sure there are no errors). I'm only including rematch data on it. You'll see it on Recent Changes after I save everything. One thing I think the tables could use is a show/hide format like here; that would let users expand them if they want that data. I presume mobile users can do that? CycloneGU (talk) 22:02, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Game Location Data

I've seen this both ways, so I'm asking. Has a consensus been established (link me if possible?) as to whether the text boxes for OR/AS under game location data (on all Pokédex pages) should both have white text or dark text? I've seen mostly dark at first so made that a standard edit, but the last three or four all show white text. CycloneGU (talk) 01:18, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

I don't know for sure. I think black text is "supposed" to be "right", or intended/believed so by a few people (at this point in time, that's mostly just an impression I can't solidly back up), but I honestly think the ORAS colors are a little too dark to contrast with black text well, so I actually prefer the white, myself. But I've not at all tried to force or argue that opinion anywhere. Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:28, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
I've seen both in use. Sometimes, I only see one (I have seen OR white and AS dark on the same line). So yeah, everyone seems to be doing their own thing until the data is added, then it can be made uniform later I guess. CycloneGU (talk) 01:29, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
Just talked to Kogs about it. The consensus is that white text should be used for both OR and AS. ht14 04:32, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
Check. All right, I'll have to review all of the Hoenn Pokémon pages; I've seen both black and white used in the Pokédex entries as well. Tiddlywinks, feel free to nab any before I get to 'em if you're in the area anyway. Or, HT14, would using a bot be better? CycloneGU (talk) 04:34, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
Just refer to me as ht or ht14 =P Uhh, I do not have control of any bots. I would say manual is better; while you're at it, you could add Pokédex entries (aha! that's the word) that you may have missed first-hand. ht14 04:37, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
Since I'll be in the area anyway for some edits, I will certainly notice if anything is missing, so that should not be a problem. I'll copy the colour text on the clipboard so I can just throw it in; I have to check doing both at once on the location entries since most lines will have both at once, too. CycloneGU (talk) 04:43, 4 January 2015 (UTC)


I see the difference now. I think it's possible just to superscript both in the same line. I'll demonstrate in a moment. If it was the only place to find in each game, I'd have no problem with separate entries, but with so many entries superscripts is the way to go, I think. I'll look into this change for anything else found in the water area entering the hideout as well (I think Tentacool is in that group among others). CycloneGU (talk) 23:10, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Done. Let me know if there's still any problem with that. Still cleaner than listing everything twice. CycloneGU (talk) 23:13, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
Basculin has similar problems, being split between B/W and B2/W2 because of Blue-striped vs Red-striped, despite a significant string of locations (not quite approaching Wailmer, though). If I wanted to spend more time searching, I'm sure I could find more examples than those just in the hideouts, too. And then there's probably some number of Pokemon who have a small number of identical locations, with one that's different between versions.
If you want to "fix" this sort of problem, I think you should consult a staff member first. I have a feeling, though, that it simply defeats the purpose of the template.
Also: if you don't expect to take long, it'd probably be wiser to just prep your edit and your message and post both at the same time, rather than leaving two messages here just a short interval apart. Tiddlywinks (talk) 23:22, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
My bad, for some reason I thought you were a staff member. I will definitely suggest it though (not this moment, but at some point) as I've seen the practice in use elsewhere in other templates; I don't think it would be an issue, but yeah, not our call either way. CycloneGU (talk) 23:45, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Fansites as sources

Hello. I just wanted to drop a friendly reminder since I saw this mentioned in one of your edit summaries. Fansite, including Serebii, are never acceptable sources for mainspace, intended mainspace articles, or information intended to be added to articles. Thanks! Crystal Talian 05:52, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

All information I have has a source here. But in some cases I used Serebii to figure out where that information is, because it wasn't complete or obvious here (to me at least). As an example: I had Togepi marked as unobtainable in ORAS. Checking Serebii's unobtainables, I saw Togepi wasn't in that list, looked up Togepi's location on Serebii and then checked that (Lavaridge Town) here. Now I have Togepi and its relatives marked correctly. The same sort of thing happened for a few others. But this (using another site to correct a mistake that can be—and is—also verified here) is not against any rules to my knowledge. You shall have to enlighten me if I am mistaken.
I know well to confirm things from other sites as much as possible, and to try to hold them at arm's length if it's not possible. Tiddlywinks (talk) 06:02, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
So long as you doublecheck it in hard-copy yourself, that should be fine. Crystal Talian 06:07, 12 January 2015 (UTC)


Can you do a quick scan of the page right now and make sure there are no obvious errors? I'm still questioning the Timothy one because I have no unlockables between the Balance and Feather Badges, but other than that I think the bulk of it is correct. I mentioned the Mysterious Sisters on Sea Mauville, however, and that they are pretty much locked in their room until you have Dive, which means either the dump data is incorrect or there's a set of rematches for them that a player can never do without cheating (and I don't know if I can cheat to that extent with the Power Saves to get access to Room 1).

I'll be adding the remaining Routes while on my way to the seventh Badge (since the entire map is unlocked with Mossdeep except for Evergrande and Sky Pillar. I'll add Meteor Falls and Victory Road either during a lull after that or after getting the final Badge. I may not even have to spend time in AS doing that, either; I can go to OR and pick up in the eight Badge standing (I am saved after a little training right after getting the Badge, haven't even gone to the waterfall yet), then I just have to get to the Pokémon League. CycloneGU (talk) 17:07, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

If a match isn't available, it's of course perfectly fine to just say "X is their first match and Y is their first rematch". And if someone eventually finds a way to get the other match, then it can be added then (if the way to get there is legit; otherwise, it's not worth it).
I've been messing with XY a bit so in ORAS I'm still just in Slateport. So, just scanning your page, I can't say there's much obviously wrong. I'll check Timothy when I can. And I thought about using the dumped Trainer data to check if the Pokemon where you have uncertain items (mostly "Oran Berry?") actually have those items, but I haven't gotten around to that. That's all I can say right now. Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:44, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
I've been checking Oran Berries by attacking such that they are under half their life, rather than completely KOing them. So far, all Oran Berries are verified, but I'm suspicious of Sitrus Berries in the final rematches. I need to bring my Linoone (Covet; Skitty learns it eventually, as well) into a few battles to see if other items can be found on other Trainers. CycloneGU (talk) 18:15, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
If you're intent on checking it in-game, it's a lot simpler to use a Frisker. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:55, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
Good point, except it only checks on entering battle. I'd have to keep sending it out and back in. CycloneGU (talk) 21:39, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
Or use two. Tiddlywinks (talk) 22:23, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
Haha, yes. But I also have two Covet users. Once levels are high enough, that's easy to do except where three or more are battled - and I can just redo the battle without saving quite easily or do the battle again later. Since most won't have items, it's not going to matter which method is used. CycloneGU (talk) 23:30, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

About Secret Bases

I don't know much about the origin of it, but might the Alpha/Beta/Gamma stuff be related to game code? It seems like that'd be an easy a way to list them in the game code. That's the only way I can see it making sense. Voltdetector (talk) 05:27, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

The person who added that info left a message at Talk:Secret Base#Locations and Layouts. In short: It's not. Tiddlywinks (talk) 05:38, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


Thank you for undoing the line I did in the Trivia section from the B2W2 page!

Berry Group Snafu

It looks like somewhere along the line we forgot to check our math, and screwed up the Berry Group EV yields. Group 1 Berries mixed with Group 3 berries produce a EV increase of 16, not 12. Likewise, Group 1 berries mixed with group 2 berries produces a 12 EV increasing juice. So the question is, do we fix the table to relay this info...or do we go through the task of re-checking every combo? Yamitora1 (talk) 05:56, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

In the original discussion, the basic data should be just fine. After that, it looks like the one BIG table had correct numbers, but somehow I/we screwed up the others. I think I noticed the problem when I made my user page, but I didn't touch Lumiose because I expected it to get mainspaced/split soon anyway. (But no, here we are, near to a year after I made it...) Tiddlywinks (talk) 13:51, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Undoing my edits

You explained why you undid my edits, and I agree that this is a thing that needs to be discussed about. However, I also made some smaller, definately acceptable edits onto those pages at the same time, and you undid them as well along with your reversion. Could you please restore them? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 09:13, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

You don't really need my permission for that sort of thing, but I went ahead and did it (though I may have missed some). One thing I did notice that I've never really liked on most pages is "Being defeated". To me, that almost sounds like a sentence fragment or incomplete thought, so I usually change it if I edit that sort of quote (though I still think there could be something clearer). Also, the trivia you added for Emma was wrong (or I'm misunderstanding your point). Tiddlywinks (talk) 10:06, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

ORAS wild items

Two things: I can't access that website due to it being blocked by my computer, and I am not sure that that website is accepted as a source of info on bulbapedia, so using it may be inadvisable. PartHunter (talk) 11:58, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

It's dumped from ORAS (or just AS, iirc) directly, by a basically trustworthy person. I've duplicated the pastebin file here, minus the empty entries, so that you can use the data. Tiddlywinks (talk) 23:17, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
That list does not give any clue about the probability of each item (via DexNav or normal encounters), which is the hard thing to get, nor does it cover the OR exclusive Pokémon, and the Pokémon exclusive to Rock Smash are probably excluded. The rates of the items are just as important as the items themselves. PartHunter (talk) 10:24, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
You've already added some items without rates... There's no reason, then, that you can't use that list to add more items...if you are going to add any more items, I guess. (Perhaps you've changed your mind now and decided that you won't be adding any items unless you know all the details you mentioned above.)
The items on that list follow a reliable pattern. If you spend any time finding items on wild Pokemon in ORAS (where the Pokemon can have two items), you'll know that the first item listed on that page is the most common and the second item is the rarer. Game-exclusives are no barrier since they can simply be tested manually. And item rates can also be empirically tested. Just test a big enough number of Pokemon and it'll be fine (I've always thought 500 was a nice goal). If you wish, it can certainly be noted somehow that the rates are not guaranteed to be perfectly accurate (like "~5%" for instance); but an estimate (well-done) is still much better than nothing. Tiddlywinks (talk) 13:25, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Sprite images

Hi there and thanks for the help before. I just need you help for something. I've noticed that in the Swimmer page, Swimmer Richard in FR/LG section did not exist. I've gone and added him but I can't figure out how to add the sprites for his Pokemon. Please help.Cooltrainer nick 22:15, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Done. The mistake you made was that you need to write 3-digit numbers for a Pokemon's number in that template. That's why just "72" wasn't working. Tiddlywinks (talk) 00:58, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Shuffle Pokédex

I already asked SnorlaxMonster to assist, but would you also mind if I ask you to look at my browser page for Shuffle? The Pokémon in the game are organized by Dex number; Mew, for instance, is #159, and recent catches Cottonee and Petilil are #131 and #133 respectively. I've only set the starters to be visible ATM, and I'm trying to create an Sdex template that, once set up correctly, will be what is referenced in that table instead of Adex (which is where Dark Power comes from, it's in the Adex template where Darkrai is the demo). CycloneGU (talk) 18:12, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm primarily interested in the core games. I don't really know how to judge your template, and I can't muster the interest required to familiarize myself with the game enough to understand and critique it. Sorry. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:17, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
No worries. I wanted to get something started for that so that others can improve on it, and I myself like puzzle games (though never bought Trozei or any of those, only got it because it's free LOL). CycloneGU (talk) 18:29, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Topgepi Doll

I think there's a pretty good case to be made that it actually says "Topgepi" in RS. I'll have to try and check myself later, though. --Abcboy (talk) 21:56, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Frogadier's voice Actor

Ash Frogadier was voiced the same as Froakie. Here is proof. Billy Bob Thompson 15:54, 28 February 2015 (UTC) --JasonL 15:55, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

1) Use preview, please... 2) There's no "proof" there. If you think there is, quote it to me here. Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:56, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Well Frogadier was voiced just like Sanpei's Froagadier and when it became a Greninja.--JasonL 16:04, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
You're making comparisons. That's not proof. Tiddlywinks (talk) 16:11, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Then what proof should I get?--JasonL 16:46, 28 February 2015 (UTC) JasonL (Talk)
Generally it's something like the actor's website, or contacting them directly (on Twitter or something), or probably an interview or something. In short, you should be able to point to someone who knows for sure. Tiddlywinks (talk) 16:49, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
How about this proof --JasonL 17:24, 28 February 2015 (UTC)JasonL (Talk)
I don't seem anything there that claims Frogadier.
Also, a tip: follow the indents in a conversation. If the last comment starts with three ":"s, start yours with four so that yours is indented one step farther than theirs. It makes everything easier to read in general. Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:28, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Now do you understand? I already know Frogadier was voiced as Billy Bob. Thanks for double checking..--JasonL 20:37, 28 February 2015 (UTC) JasonL (Talk)

Hi I just wanted to pop into this discussion here. We generally don't add information until it is confirmed, even though it may be blatantly obvious. The pages on Billy Bob Thompson do say that he voices Frogadier as a whole, but it doesn't directly say that he voices Ash's Frogadier in particular-for all we know, this particular Frogadier could have a different voice actor (though I kind of agree that it's blatantly obvious it's Thompson). Bottom line, here in Bulbapedia, unconfirmed info is not added to Bulbapedia even if it may be blatantly obvious. You may think it sucks, but you still have to abide by that. ScraftyIsTheBest (talk) 20:48, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Okay. And Tiddlywinks, could you tell ForceFire that Ash's Frogadier English Voice Actor is already confirmed.--JasonL 09:18, 1 March 2015 (UTC) JasonL (Talk)

Edit summary

Hello. I just want to point out that edit summaries like the one you wrote here are rude and uncalled for, especially because it concerns a very minor typo. Typo's and small mistakes like those happen all the time to everyone, sometimes they even happen if you do preview or double-check. If the editor didn't notice, it's up to other alert editors to silently correct those mistakes. Either be more neutral with your choice of words in your edit summary, or don't say anything at all. Thank you. ☼ BlazingFist ☼ 00:37, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

I would not call the typo minor, as it caused a very visible misformat of the table. I was exasperated by the mistake, and that did lead to my choice of wording, a choice I will readily admit was not neutral; but I don't really think I crossed any line. I really think it was rather mild.
I think your standard is very low (or I may have invited some amount prejudice against myself throughout my "career" here), but for whatever it's worth, I do hear your warning. Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:00, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
It might not be as minor as I first perceived, but it's still a mistake that is easily made. Of course everyone should be motivated to double-check or use the preview button, but with mistakes like these it's better to just correct and leave it be. If it's a continuing problem with an editor, you can of course warn them about this on their talk page, or notify an administrator so they could review the editor and possibly put them on force-preview.
You did not exactly cross a line, but I still perceived it as rude as there is a difference between saying "how hard is it to use the preview button?", and saying something neutral like "correcting a typo you made there". Notice the difference? That's all I'm saying.
Lastly, I can assure you there is no such thing as prejudice against you. I don't know where you're getting this. All editors are treated equally in equal situations, unless they're blatant vandals. ☼ BlazingFist ☼ 01:20, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Bulbapedia's warning policy talks about "unofficial warnings". That's actually what I basically intended, precisely because I didn't figure it enough to take to a talk page or staff member. Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:40, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
It is not about that you wrote an edit summary, it is about the way how you wrote it (see my previous message). My apologies if it came across as if I was trying to say you aren't allowed to warn editors in edit summaries. You can, but in a polite and neutral way. If you just notify them of making a typo in a neutral way in the edit summary, they will also pick up on their mistake, without having to be blunt about it.
Now I know this is all a matter of perception, which is why these kind of situations are rather difficult, but it is preferred to stay very neutral in edit summaries. ☼ BlazingFist ☼ 01:57, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Groudon trivia

It is notable for Groudon, as it indicates that it will be added to the game, and it is a feature shared by only three Pokémon, with one of the other two being a counterpart to Groudon, making it a more notable feature. PartHunter (talk) 05:20, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Trivia around this site generally obeys a maxim: "not unique = not notable". Personally, even if it were only Groudon, I'd still be really dubious about its noteworthiness on Groudon's page, 1) because I think Shuffle is pretty niche, and 2) because it's not a mascot or anything, it's just one of a bunch of Pokemon shown (and explaining Groudon's presence doesn't have to lead to "he'll definitely be in the game", that's just speculation).
But in the end, if you want to press it, you'd best take it to a staff member. Until then, I'll follow the rule "not unique = not notable", because it looks to be violating that to me. Tiddlywinks (talk) 13:09, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
1. Pokémon Shuffle is not pretty niche, only somewhat niche, as shown by how it has already been downloaded more than 1 milion times from the eStore.
2. Compare Pokémon Shuffle to Candy Crush (never played it, but I have read about it), many similarities would be visible. As what I have read about Candy Crush indicates that more levels have been added as the game has been updated and Pokémon Shuffle is currently so short, this indicates that many more levels will probably be added to the game. Also, why would Nintendo make a graphical designer make more sprites for Pokémon just to put them in the background of one image (particularly one that is supposed to represent the game and its content)?
3. When added to an article, such a potential reason would have somthing like "probably", "may" or "raises suspicions that" added to it as a qualifier.
4. Hacking both Sableye and Spiritomb to have Wonderguard being common in generations IV and V is notable enough to enter the trivia section for both Pokémon, and it could be argued that the Pokémon with costumes based off them in Pokémon Battle Revolution have a non-unique feature in their trivia, as there are six such Pokémon (including Groudon).
5. Is that maxim actually written into policy anywhere on the site?
6. Groudon is genderless, so that "he" is inaccurate. While it is not against anything on talk pages, it cannot apply in article pages (exept for the cases (if any) where the game in question for that case treats Groudon as male).
PartHunter (talk) 06:01, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
To 5: I believe it is not written anywhere that is fully official, but it is commonly enforced.
The rest is really not worth my effort to respond to. It's either not related to the main reason I removed the trivia or it's directly related and arguing the policy between the two of us won't really get us anywhere (since I have no influence on policy). So as I said..."if you want to press it, you'd best take it to a staff member. Until then, I'll follow the rule "not unique = not notable", because it looks to be violating that to me." Tiddlywinks (talk) 13:04, 5 March 2015 (UTC)


Not entirely sure what your edit comment is saying there, but after catching a Pokémon (say, Zorua on Route 101), it will NOT appear in the Pokédex until you get the National Dex, even when caught. I've tested this with other non-native catches. However, it WILL appear on the habitat map and you can search for it like any other. Therefore, if a player has imported all non-native from the beginning, the habitat maps will show them after the legendary battle; however, I do not believe they will appear even there until that point because the medal progress changes, as some town areas convert automatically to Platinum status without a single new Pokémon. CycloneGU (talk) 18:47, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

When you say habitat map, I think you're talking about the "catching progress"/default map of the DexNav. The "habitat" view at question was within the Pokedex: you open the Pokedex and select a Pokemon, and that shows info like species, type, height, and weight (much of which is blank if the Pokemon is not owned), and at the bottom is a button marked "Habitat". That habitat button shows the basic Hoenn Town Map with any places where the Pokemon can appear covered by white dots (or squares).
What I know: if I see or catch Ponyta, I can open the National Pokedex and check out the habitat view for Ponyta, and Route 112 and Jagged Pass are marked.
What I don't know: if I don't have the National Pokedex—but I have defeated Groudon/Kyogre—if I catch Ponyta and then bring up Ponyta's Found Pokemon screen on the DexNav and go from there to Ponyta's Pokedex entry and check the habitat view, will Ponyta be recognized as being on Route 112 and Jagged Pass? (That's the only way I can think to get to the habitat view.)
FWIW, I'm on course to answer the "I don't know" part myself soon enough. Tiddlywinks (talk) 19:11, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Since it has no Pokédex entry, the answer is no. I can plug in AS, however, as I have not picked up the National Dex and have Kyogre caught there. CycloneGU (talk) 19:13, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
You're half right, I guess. If I don't have the National Pokedex and I've caught a Ponyta, I can bring up a Pokedex entry from the Found Pokemon screen, but if I look at the Habitat screen there, it says "No Reported Sightings" (and also, all of Ponyta's info in the entry is unknown). But, I'm not sure if it's worth noting on the DexNav page. (It isn't for me, right now.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 23:16, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you

I don't do this often, but I'd really like to thank you for all the hard work you've put into gathering info from the Generation VI games. It's clear to me that you invest a significant amount of time and effort to do this, and I really appreciate it. --SnorlaxMonster 11:48, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. =) (And short of starting a speech, that's about all I can say. =P ) Tiddlywinks (talk) 14:34, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Character encodings

Are you planning on working on the character encodings for any other Pokémon games? Those would definitely be useful. --Abcboy (talk) 03:23, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

I'm playing with Gen I (Yellow) at this very moment. I'll probably jump at Gen II afterwards. Gen IV and V are kind of intimidating, more or less because the latest ROMs I've looked at are Gen III, so I may or may not touch those ones any time soon. Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:52, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
I've got some great places for you to start for Generation I and II, although you've likely found at least one list already. ([1], [2]). Generation II at least in terms of non-control characters seems to be very similar to Generation I, but it interestingly has "&" and Japanese double quotes (『』); unchanged in the English versions that Generation I does not have that you can actually enter in mail. Another link of interest is this regarding early character indices for English Generation II. I'm unsure if they are intentional. Chickasaurus (talk) 05:04, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
I've never even bothered looking for it on other sites, actually. That first GlitchCity link is nice, though; it explains the 0x6# characters that I couldn't really tell the difference of (I never tried comparing them). Of course, from what I noticed in Yellow's ROM, it didn't look like most of them were used in obvious text. But anyway, thanks! =) Tiddlywinks (talk) 11:34, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
You're welcome. Chickasaurus (talk) 14:27, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

(resetting indent)Have you yet managed to find the character encoding for the Japanese and Korean releases of the Generation II games? From what I've heard, the Latin alphabet has the exact same indices in the Korean games due to them being intercompatible. --Abcboy (talk) 22:33, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

I got heavily side-tracked when I really started exploring the pokered disassembly. But thanks to the exploration I've been doing, I think I may be able to figure out (non-control) characters for any given language fairly easily (and I guess the control characters would mostly be the same, give or take the string outputs), so I'll try to give it a look this weekend. Tiddlywinks (talk) 23:16, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
The Korean game does text weird... It looks like it builds characters on the fly somehow, and each character that appears on the screen is written in a special part of RAM (after long enough, the "page" fills up and it wraps around and starts overwriting the first characters that were displayed). I don't know what chances I have of figuring it out, especially being largely unfamiliar with Korean. I'm gonna try some trial and error with stuff later on to see what, if anything, I can learn, but at the moment, that's all I can say. Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:04, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
I'm going to guess how it works; I tried playing around with it once but got bored quickly.
The Korean language works by having lots of letters (each separate part of the block) and then stacks them into a syllable. Storing each block individually would take far more than 8-bits; from Generation IV onwards this approach was used due to having 16-bits to encode characters.
Each Korean letter has a codepoint roughly in order from 00 (or 01?) onwards. The Latin alphabet is still in the game and is used for the credits, sharing the same codepoints with the European language games (which Korean G/S can trade with, oddly enough). End of syllable bytes (50?) mark the end of each hangul block. - unsigned comment from Abcboy (talkcontribs)
I've made User:Tiddlywinks/Korean character encoding in Generation II. For now it's not complete, but it should have the major part of what you wanted to know. I'll complete the rest later on. Tiddlywinks (talk) 20:22, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

So on that other page for Base Exps for Gen I-IV Pokémon... Enjoy. - unsigned comment from Trainer Yusuf (talkcontribs)

Regarding the packs

Hey Tiddlywinks, with regards to the Battle e packs and the website that you sourced, the only reason I wrote out those Trainer classes was because the website said so. That being said, from what I've seen, the Trainer class for those is indeed VR Trainer and not what the website said. ht14 14:22, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Well, the yakkun site's Trainer classes are after a fashion correct for both the card Trainers and the bonus Trainers. Bulbapedia just has different standards (or I do). FWIW, one video I also took some information from but never apparently sourced was (and that video includes Vigo at about 20m30s, the bonus Trainer for Yellow). Tiddlywinks (talk) 14:40, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
Ahh, I see. Yeah, I was watching that same video previously that had VR Trainer Vigo, so I understand completely. As a side note, I have just asked him if he could help us out with providing battle information. Hopefully that works out. Nice find of the website by the way. ht14 15:16, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Preview button

So I should use it every time? Technickal (talk) 17:43, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

RE:Special skills addendum

In reguards to that, it's a result I have observed by having two in my base at the same time for several days running, and always getting the same one from both on any day when I used them, not the same result via soft resets. As my edit summary said, it's a result from 1.2, so it may be different now. PartHunter (talk) 11:55, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

On hacking

I know that practically anything can be done by hacking the games but the idea is to describe what exactly is achieved by doing it in the given scenario. After all, you can't go further by mentioning cheat codes, which aren't any different from explaining how to modify the values of memory addresses directly, as it is not allowed on Bulbapedia according to SnorlaxMonster. SatoMew2 (talk) 10:56, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

If you're trying to sway me somehow, I'm sorry to say for the life of me I can't really tell what you're trying to say (in almost any regard). Tiddlywinks (talk) 11:22, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
I'm referring to this. I was just giving you insight on why I added that tidbit. SatoMew2 (talk) 11:26, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
I get the basic cause for your message; it's the content that escapes my (full) comprehension. For instance, the referents for "it" and "given scenario" are not (to me) nearly so clear as I imagine you thought they were. On the other hand, if all you intended was to offer insight, then I'm not too concerned if I can't understand it all well enough. Tiddlywinks (talk) 11:51, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
"it" refers to the process of hacking, "given scenario" (in this case) means the clock reset screen. I wasn't more specific because this applies to every other case in which an article could say that hacking the game would allow you to obtain a desired result. Take the unused Super Game Boy border in Pokémon Crystal, for example. We talk about it but we can't mention how to activate it because listing cheat codes is a no-no. People who come across that information on Bulbapedia have to look somewhere else for more (TCRF, for example). SatoMew2 (talk) 12:05, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Re: Mea culpa (Honey)

It's OK. :) Blueapple128 (talk) 15:16, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

PSS Icons

The higher-ups made a decision on the Gym Leader PSS icons and your alternate source. glikglak 21:08, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

I saw it. I don't really have an excuse for not doing anything about it except that I'm super lazy and focused on other things. Half of it is also, though, that I've not gotten explicit permission for the exact source that I know for the PSS icons. The source is here. I previously got permission from Zesty Cactus for at least one link (but really wanted a few, not all of which I provided because I wasn't sure of the process at the time), but I'm afraid that if someone directly asked and I tried to claim that as my approval for the PSS icons, I wouldn't have any ground to stand on. The PKHeX program is one of Kaphotics' projects on GitHub, and he pointed me there when I queried him about sprites and stuff in a PM on Project Pokemon.
Would it be too much for me to "hand" this off to you? So maybe you can confirm with the powers-that-be whether or not those PSS icons from PKHeX really can be used, and then upload them yourself if so? (Again, this is more or less entirely just because I'm lazy and more interested in other things at the moment, and I'm supposing you might be invested enough to be willing to take this up. So, sorry for putting this burden on you...) Tiddlywinks (talk) 22:13, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
Not quite getting why you think you don't have Kaphotics' permission. Did you not mention you wanted them for Bulbapedia or something? glikglak 00:15, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
It's not Kaphotics' permission I'm unsure of. It's staff's. Tiddlywinks (talk) 00:29, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
That's just what Zesty gave you; the permission she's talking about is Kaphotics'. But no matter, I'm fine with doing it. glikglak 00:56, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Personality Value / Gender

First off, the summary is much better now; thank you. However, I still question having a textual summary of an algorithm, without giving pseudocode; why not have both? Anyone who legitimately follow the pseudocode can still refer to the improved summary. Plus, pseudocode is unambiguous - sure, I don't see any confusing part of the newly revised summary, but I'm a native English speaker, and it may come off confusing to someone less familiar with English. Pseudocode crosses language boundaries.

I just don't see a reason to not have both. It can only (possibly) increase the number of people who could potentially understand it.

Sorry, I left off my signature.--Gou (talk) 05:55, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
On the one hand, my feeling is that if we follow that logic and include it there, why not pretty much everywhere? (And that "everywhere" can apply to quite a number of places.) I think that would just get messy.
And on the other hand, this is an English wiki. Catering to non-English speakers (or, past a certain point (good writing, mainly), non-native speakers) is not really a driving force behind decisions made here. Just from a pratical viewpoint, I would say that ESL visitors of this site take the hazard of not understanding something on themselves, basically. And if anyone really wants, there are any number of places to ask for clarification (and I don't mean just around Bulbagarden). Tiddlywinks (talk) 11:51, 29 June 2015 (UTC)


Staff will soon be discussing the variation mess. Can you avoid touching those until something happens with that? --Abcboy (talk) 22:19, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Is that so, not just moves, Abilities too? I get discussing move variations. Out of curiosity, what exactly (or generally) is at issue regarding Ability variations? Tiddlywinks (talk) 22:34, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
I don't know what exactly, but I do know that we will probably be discussing Abilities too. --Abcboy (talk) 22:50, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Rock Smash Pokémon Levels

Possibly along the lines of the Psyduck/Roselia hordes:

I encountered some wild Pokémon from Rock Smash that don't match the level ranges on the location pages; specifically:

  • a level 13 Dwebble in Ambrette Town (vs. 18-20)
  • a level 14 Dwebble on Route 8 (vs. 18-20)
  • a level 13 Binacle and some level 13/14 Dwebbles in Cyllage City (vs. 15-17 for Binacle and 15, 17 for Dwebble)

(I also encountered 4 level 15 Dwebbles in Glittering Cave, which does fit the range of 15, 17.)

I figure you're a good person to notify/ask about this, since you added the current ranges (with revision notes about double-checking them).

Nokob (talk) 01:03, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

FWIW, I may also have decided not to note small differences on some pages.
I got the data from Kaphotics, who extracted it from the ROM, so I'll try to ask if he can take a second look at that data.
Failing that, we may have to manually double-check all horde and Rock Smash levels. For the hordes, we'd probably only have to worry about the levels, but for Rock Smash, I'm not sure if we could really assume that the percentages are right either. At the very least, we'd want to check observed rates in one area and compare it to the currently presumed rates. ...But hopefully Kaphotics can clear things up for us more directly. Tiddlywinks (talk) 09:49, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
Surprisingly, it seems like all those differences are just differences between X & Y. I'll go around and update anything that needs correcting sometime soon(ish). Tiddlywinks (talk) 20:15, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Valerie's wings

why did you revert my edit? --Valehd (tAlk) 03:01, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

I said why. Tiddlywinks (talk) 09:49, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
it was not a coincidence or an opinion. --Valehd (tAlk) 20:12, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
And why do you say it is not coincidence? If your answer is just, "It's obvious (to me) that Valerie's wings look like Audino", that's nothing but opinion. The only way for it to not be coincidence is if there is some reason it would look like Audino. And I don't know a good reason; do you? Tiddlywinks (talk) 20:32, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Nido breeding

Would you be interested in helping with a project to determine how the Nidoran family breeds in different combinations? I've made a table here. I'll be breeding some in ORAS, so if you could assist, earlier generations would be helpful. (The only reason I think this needs further research is because someone edited the Nidoran-M page to say that Nido-M/Ditto breeding isn't giving them a 50/50 ratio, which may just be due to a small sample size, but could be symptomatic of a larger issue.) --Abcboy (talk) 12:05, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

My thoughts are kind of twofold. On the one hand, ideally, we should test the exact circumstances the person is drawing their conclusions from. On the other hand, we should also just test the earliest and latest generations, and if those are the same, we can safely enough assume the rest in between is the same too (until someone should see fit to cast any doubt on that assumption). Of course, if you want to check the other in-between stuff just to be sure, that's fine, but it's probably not super important.
If anything, I might do some testing for Emerald, just because Emerald is the easiest early game to test (since Magma Armor/Flame Body work, and because of the Mach Bike and Day Care "path"). But don't rely on me right now; if I decide I have some time to put towards it, I'll check your page and just see if Em/Gen III still needs doing. (...Despite what I said above, I (personally) wouldn't be enthused to try Gen II "live". Though if you would be happy enough to use an emulator and just check the game's save data after picking up Eggs, you could make that testing quite a bit easier.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 14:04, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

The Preview Button

Be sure to not reuse the same warning that has already been used once for specific users. MaverickNate 14:32, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

I suppose I understand, but I'm not sure what I should have done otherwise. I half did it like that just because the previous one was pretty old. Could you offer a suggestion as to what I should have done exactly? Tiddlywinks (talk) 19:19, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Post a hand-written reminder under the section instead. It's not very welcoming as a user to receive the same word-for-word message over and over again from different people. Makes it seem cold, robotic and removed, instead of warmly, gently teaching the user the right way of doing things. MaverickNate 19:29, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Studio Ghibli a Possible origin for Eevee(response from discussion page)

I tried perusing official sources from Gamefreak(interviews/transcripts) only to find nothing other than fan/forum discussion regarding the subject of Eevee. It seems Gamefreak is secretive about their design process which is typical of most Japanese companies; I just wanted to bring up the similarities between Eevee and Miyazaki's Fox Squirrel. This is due to Teto being modeled after Fennec fox/vulpines which would vindicate fan speculation that Eevee and its variants are indeed vulpine inspired. Unfortunately, as I cannot find concrete information from official sources the thesis I typed above does not meet Bulbapedia's standard of sourcing. I am sorry for taking up your time. Plastro (talk) 01:04, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

No worries. ^_^ I'm half inclined to agree with the points you raised, but there's that pesky other half that still isn't sure. =P Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:06, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
If I could chime in, if Eevee is based off a Fennec Fox and Teto is based off a Fennec Fox as well. It most likely means that Eevee is based off a Fennec Fox, not Teto. I get where you're coming from with the culture thing, but I just feel that if A and B are based off C, then A is based off C not B.--ForceFire 05:23, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Bug videos

I thought on getting rid of the less necessary ones but that doesn't properly solve the issue either. And the legacy template doesn't accept YouTube channel IDs regardless so the links are still broken after your edit. SatoMew2 (talk) 22:03, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

I've requested an emergency fix. SatoMew2 (talk) 22:19, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Gah, I spaced twice! I was only looking at the URLs, and I just wanted the "reversion" to be easy, and part of me managed to be so convinced I fixed it right the second time that I never actually re-checked the links. Sorry.
I don't know that the "ytu" template needs to be edited, though. The user links still seem to work fine on Youtube, and I don't know any reason they can't be used (for now, at the very least; i.e., there's not really any emergency). I'll just work through and restore the user names instead. Tiddlywinks (talk) 22:28, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
It needs to be fixed because the issues will go away. YouTube automatically redirects this to this and we will no longer have to worry about newer channel IDs not working (which is particularly relevant; for example, this channel is not mine whereas this one is). SatoMew2 (talk) 22:35, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
I see. That's reasonable, and that'd work out alright. (Though I still wouldn't quite say there's any "emergency".)
On the other hand, IMO changing "ytu" still wouldn't be a panacea. On the revision you initially made, the templates said "By channel/[channel-id]", and that's kind of terrible. In short, IMO both of the Youtube templates actually need a dispaly name parameter somehow (which "ytu" will already accept as a second parameter, luckily). Tiddlywinks (talk) 22:49, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Well, if we don't make it an "emergency", it'll continue to be broken for even longer. And while it looks terrible, it at least points to the right direction. Personally, I find it pointless that we need to list the name of who published the video because you can go directly to YouTube and check it yourself. This only creates more problems than solutions for ourselves here at Bulbapedia. TCRF's YouTube embeds don't have this problem and they're not stealing content either since the video is the original source in itself. SatoMew2 (talk) 22:55, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Aaand, now I discover the usernames annoy me. I've checked about 5 at the moment (probably making up about half the videos), and only Chickasaurus's still works, the others "do not exist". So I'm not even going to bother trying to "fix" all that. Maybe it is an "emergency", then. Tiddlywinks (talk) 23:05, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Indeed, this only gives you headaches. Oh, and let's not forget that, as a YouTube user, you may or may not have the right to use a custom channel URL. SatoMew2 (talk) 23:10, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Wait a second, Template:YouTubeVid works just fine (proof). We don't need Template:YouTubeEmbed. Here's a fixed "YouTubeVid" (template, tests). SatoMew2 (talk) 04:49, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

That's kind of weird (given my expectations). Those are still embedded, though, so I imagine (without trying to check it in practice on the glitches page) any of those would still be as problematic to load as the previous revision with the YouTubeEmbed template. In the meantime, since the Youtube video templates were updated, I did a quick fix so the links at least work again, and tomorrow I'll go through and add name parameters too. Tiddlywinks (talk) 06:31, 29 August 2015 (UTC)


Looks like we're stuck with the names in the template. Do they really expect people to care about this? Most people will just add the template for the video with its ID qlong with a random URL and username and be done with it because the burden and time wasted on making sure the links are correct will simply put off most, especially on articles with multiple videos from different authors. SatoMew 20:38, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Bulbapedia cares. And if Bulbapedia wants to, that's up to "them". If people don't use the template right, it can be fixed. It's fair to argue whether Bulbapedia should care, but I wouldn't say it's fair to argue that Bulbapedia has to care whether people care. If Bulbapedia feels there is a needful standard, they probably should be aiming for it.
An analogy might be drawn to the new-ish rules for Pokemon Biology sections. Things are supposed to be sourceable on the page or cited. But sometimes people don't follow that rule, probably because they're ignorant of it. That doesn't mean Bulbapedia should bend to those ignorant or careless users. And it's easy enough to fix, anyway. No harm, no foul. Standards are worth having. Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:22, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
Standards are only worth having if they serve an useful and pragmatic purpose, which is definitely not the case with YouTube videos. But it is what it is so there is no point arguing further since the decisions have already been made. And sourcing things in a reliable manner is a must on the wiki in general, of course. SatoMew 00:59, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Poké Seer location texts

Location $00: "Whaaaat? I can't tell a thing! How could I not know of this?" (「なんと! まったく わからん!! わしに わからぬことが あるとは⋯⋯」)

Location $7D, #125: "Hm… I see you met (POKéMON) here: !" (「ふむ⋯⋯ この(Pokémon)とは (gibberish)で であった!」*)

Location $7E, #126: same as $00

Location $7F, #127: "What!? Incredible! I don't how understand how, but it is incredible! You are special. I can't tell where you met it, but it was at level (level). Am I good or what?" (「こっ これは すごい!! よくわからんが すごい はずじゃ!! おぬし なかなか やるのぉ どこで であったのかは わからんが⋯ であったときの レベルは(level)!! わしも なかなか やる じゃろう?」)

Locations $60-$7C or #96-#124 return the same text as $7D but the location value is instead gibberish. English $60 does give an apparent translation of the Japanese $7D value, though (?????????????????Unknown).

My question is: how should we organize the article to show this information, in your opinion? SatoMew2 (talk) 15:22, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

The easy answer is it belongs on the Poké Seer's page. I'm thinking she deserves her own page, especially since it looks like the Seer says more than just where you met your Pokemon. Describing all that should make a respectable page (kind of like the Memory Girl).
For now, though, he's on the Cianwood City page, but I kind of think that should remain simpler than not. So for now, I'll just change the #0 entry on List of locations by index number (Generation II); if there's a reason #0 said "Unknown" and #126 said "Can't tell" instead of both being the same, I can't imagine it right now and haven't read the Pokecrystal code enough to understand (or tested the indices myself). So if that's a mistake, I apologize. Anyway, to repeat: I think the Poke Seer deserves its own page. Tiddlywinks (talk) 16:03, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
OK. I agree that she deserves her own article. In the meantime, I've updated the location index numbers article with more correct information and added the Japanese names for comparison sake. SatoMew2 (talk) 19:35, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
I've more or less said this in my edit summary, but if they're the same, there's not really any meaningful "comparison" to be made. That page isn't for translations of the location names, so it only muddles the page/table's purpose. If anyone needs to know all that, list of locations in other languages will pretty much suffice. Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:37, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I got your point. I did it just because of the Japanese "Unknown", actually. Since it wasn't mentioned elsewhere, I went ahead and added all the others for good measure. SatoMew2 (talk) 21:44, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

FRLG Link Battle music

Where should we mention this on the wiki? The OST article seems like a good choice but I'm not sure. SatoMew2 (talk) 19:27, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm not totally sure what, exactly, you want to mention? Maybe you can just write a sample here of what you would write on whatever OST page if you were to do so, and I'll be happy to think on an answer for you. Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:18, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
FRLG uses the RSE Gym Leader battle music in Link Battles (it's in the ROM and has index number 0109h). It's trivial so I'm wondering which article would fit the best. SatoMew2 (talk) 21:53, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
Sounds like it either belongs on Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen Versions (Link Battles use RSE Gym music) or Pokémon Ruby & Pokémon Sapphire: Super Music Collection (the Gym music is also used in FRLG Link Battles). To the extent of my knowledge, at any rate. Tiddlywinks (talk) 22:18, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
I added it to the RS OST article under trivia :) SatoMew2 (talk) 23:11, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

On misleading text

You cannot say it misleads people into thinking the battery is at fault when the battery is only ONE option suggested.

Why does this matter when the info is nonetheless incorrect? A lot of people also still think that the GBA games use the battery for the saves since that was true of the GB and GBC games, meaning that they would actually believe that all their stuff is gone because the RSE cartridge battery has run dry, which is not true. Yes, it suggests two causes but one of them is not even possible at all. SatoMew2 (talk) 00:34, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Um. What?
In asking "Why does [it] matter?", you're implicitly acknowledging the correctness of that quote of me. I don't understand what you think there is to argue then. Tiddlywinks (talk) 00:55, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Except I'm not. And you obviously felt the need to correct my wording, which means it bothered you. If it didn't matter, then you would've left it untouched. SatoMew2 (talk) 01:23, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
It bothered me because it's wrong, plain and simple.
Your statement only allowed for one possibility. You said, "The English versions mislead the player into thinking that the internal battery has run dry"; but if a person can freely and reasonably make the right conclusion and not be "misled", then your statement is manifestly wrong. And it's eminently reasonable (or should be) that a person might read the English text in question and conclude that the back-up function simply failed; in no way do they have to conclude it's the battery. So it's simple: what you wrote is fundamentally inaccurate. Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:46, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Because between "backup memory may be damaged" or "internal battery has run dry", there is only one valid possibility as the second one should be automatically ignored. You would have a point if the choices presented were "backup memory may be damaged" or "backup memory has worn out" as those are indeed the two valid possibilities in the context of the "save failed" issue. So no, it's not inaccurate or wrong. Period. SatoMew2 (talk) 01:54, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
I thoroughly believe your logic above is flawed. I'm rather baffled by it, though, so I'm not really sure where I'd even start trying to persuade you of it.
But in the meantime, tell me this: is there anything in particular that you think is wrong about what I wrote when I edited your statement? Or do you just believe that there was nothing wrong with how you wrote it? Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:03, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Reath and Ferma

About Reath and Ferma, I apologize for my mistake. I have played to the part of Pyrite Cave and realised that the two peons are in Miror B.'s cave after you defeat them. MotherOfArceus (talk) 00:46, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Pokemon Conquest

Hey, just letting you know I've been poking several staff members to try and finally get the Move templates we (mostly you :p) have designed off the ground and into the mainspace.

I've moved forward with an old secondary project, a Warrior template, at my sandbox (implemented here). Currently, other than addressing general design concerns from staff members that may come in, the main thing I want to adjust on it is the Links section; ideally, I'd like that clicking on the artwork redirects to the Pokemon's page, and to adjust the evolutionary charts under the artwork to accommodate stand-alone, two-stage, and three-stage evolutionary lines, as well as initial links that are perhaps stage one or stage two, instead of just basic. I'd also like to make all the boxes of uniform height, or at least spaced/stretched to the edges so it looks nicer. However, I've no idea how to do any of that. Would you be willing to take a look? Drake Clawfang (talk) 17:53, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Well, lemme start off with a few tips for future reference. One: taking a cue from a lot of other templates on the wiki, the type parameters should really be "type1/2" (or "type/type2") instead of "primary/secondary type". Two: you should usually give parameters some default value, in particular, like {{{type1|unknown}}}; this'll make your "unused" template more readable and understandable (even when you just preview the template), and depending on what you use for those default values it can also make it easy for people to notice if they've forgotten something. Three: if there's some template(s) you want to use inside of yours (like MSP or roundies), you should probably just copy that template's code instead of actually calling the template (the main exception is colors, particularly when controlled by type parameters); this is because calling one template from inside another is...well, it's just kind of problematic (I'm not actually totally sure how, it's kinda techincal and complicated, but if it happens too much/in too many templates on a page, it can cause problems). Bonus: I'd suggest sticking to the stat colors used in {{warlord}} (the main ones at least: Power/Wisdom/Charisma/Total).
The image linking is easy. You can just look at {{MSP}} which you're already using too (or, even better: Template:CSP).
As far as evolutions, looking at a warlord's info like Motonari, it looks like those aren't concerned at all about evolution. I wonder if you should just do something like:


instead of prioritizing one for a big picture. (Also, I definitely don't know enough about Conquest to know this myself, but if any of those non-Warlords can have different default Pokemon in different stories (what you're calling "Initial Link", I'm assuming?) like Motonari or Muneshige, then you'll probably have to think up something different than you currently have there too.)
The boxes look pretty well laid out to me on the Munenori example. In other words, I don't understand what you want to improve with the heights, so I don't know how to help you there.
As a bonus tip, when you first want to make a template, you may not actually want to try to make a "template" from the start. If you're not real sure what you want (if you have any inkling you might be making lots of adjustments/edits/fixes =P ), then you may just want to start by making an actual, "working" example (like, make that Munenori table), without using any template stuff like parameters; just make a "hard-coded" table (or whatever you may be doing). That way, you can just keep previewing everything and keep trying to make it look good, without ever actually having to save anything. (You could save if you need to take a break, or you could also just copy it into a text file.) This can also make it real easy to just play around with different parts of your layout. When you're finally pretty sure it's good (maybe test it by changing up your example, like from Munenori to Akizane), then you can change what you've got so it can work as a template. Tiddlywinks (talk) 23:46, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
Check on the default values and the template colors. For initial link, yeah, all Warlords you meet in the field have the same initial Pokemon across all stories except the initial one (which has unique mechanics and teams for enemies, anyway). For the box heights, I'm gonna leave it alone, it may not be a problem, hard to tell now. I'm going to try some more examples and see.
You misunderstand what I want with the image link (and what's "User:Tiddlywinks/CSP" for?). I know how to link the images fine, that's not the problem. I want the images to link to the Pokemon pages, not the file pages, so I click the image, it takes me to the Pokemon's page. Also, what if a Warrior has a Pokemon that doesn't evolve? Or it evolves twice? The template as it exists now cannot support that, and I need to know how to make it; ie, if there's no evolutions to display, it doesn't display two empty evolution fields with arrows pointing to them.
Utilizing the template or not for the Warlords instead of generic warriors is a horse of another color, since many of them have Legendary Pokemon in addition to their Perfect link, and the Hero has all the Eeveelutions. I'm not adverse to using the sprites over the artwork, but that's a minor issue and easy to change later.Drake Clawfang (talk) 00:51, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
Okay, the sandbox now shows there's the overall problem of box dimensions not being fixed. I thought I did that, apparently not. Drake Clawfang (talk) 00:59, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
CSP is the Conquest minisprites. Both MSP and CSP make it so if you click the image it goes to the Pokemon page... Try clicking them. MSP:  , CSP:  . So just copy what they do. If that's not what you want, then yeah, I really am missing something. =P
I wasn't suggesting using your template for the Warlords. All I said was, those didn't worry about marking evolutions. So I think it would be fine if you don't either. And I don't know of a reason it's super important. So, instead of putting one big picture and then an evolution line in those columns, just put simple lists there instead, like:


To make that real easy, you could even do it just like {{warlord}} does: just make it one parameter. I.e., when the template is used, it'll work something like: "perlink=[[File:123CFS.png]] {{p|Scyther}}<br>[[File:212CFS.png]] {{p|Scizor}}<br>[[File:212CFS.png]] {{p|Scizor}}". Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:11, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
Guess I'll have to. Thanks. What about fixed dimensions? (EDIT - I presume your user template is in the pipe to be moved into the mainspace after three years of discussion?) Drake Clawfang (talk) 02:39, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
If you basically want to make the portrait area constant, change
{| width="100%" style="margin:auto; text-align:center; border-collapse:collapse;"
|[[File:{{{portrait|Conquest Nobunaga I.png}}}]]
so that width in the first line says some number (like "10px") instead of "100%" and add a height to the second line using the same number (supposing you want it square).
Also, *I've* hardly been here three years (certainly not active), much less any of my templates. I can't tell you how they're progressing as far as being mainspaced. Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:26, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
I know, I just mean it's been almost a full year since the move templates were done, and apparently staff is still discussing them. It's frustrating that so much hard work and enthusiasm is being squandered in sandboxes because of bureaucracy.
I've got a friend from another Wiki helping me with this, it's going well. Thank you, though. Your input does mean a lot to me; you're one of only two people who's actually been supportive at all. :( Drake Clawfang (talk) 03:43, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
In some fashion, all the stuff that staff is supposed to decide on (mainspacing, moving, deleting, merging...) has just gotten almost "out of control". They're working to get all caught up, but it certainly is frustrating for the rest of us who can only sit and watch on the sidelines without being able to contribute or hardly even witness in any real way. If you wanna try and "bug" people, that's certainly an option; but to an extent, you do have to realize that they can't address everything immediately for the time being.
But anyway, glad to help. ^_^ Tiddlywinks (talk) 04:14, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
For now I'm good with it. If you wanna edit it or make your own for modifications, or have any other ideas for adjusting it, just drop me a line. Drake Clawfang (talk) 04:20, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
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