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Talk:Fly (move): Difference between revisions
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::You kinda need proof of that. What if the producers of the anime say that every Pokémon seen flying is actually using the move Fly? We can't go on your word alone. '''~ <span style="font-family: Verdana; "><span style="color:#6c8b21;">ove</span><span style="color:#a1cf31;">rgr</span><span style="color:#c0df75;">own</span><sub>[[User:Sol|s]][[User_talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]</sub>'''</span> 23:43, 3 March 2009 (UTC) | ::You kinda need proof of that. What if the producers of the anime say that every Pokémon seen flying is actually using the move Fly? We can't go on your word alone. '''~ <span style="font-family: Verdana; "><span style="color:#6c8b21;">ove</span><span style="color:#a1cf31;">rgr</span><span style="color:#c0df75;">own</span><sub>[[User:Sol|s]][[User_talk:Sol|o]][[Special:Contributions/Sol|l]]</sub>'''</span> 23:43, 3 March 2009 (UTC) | ||
:::'''''I HAVE AN IDEA!!!''''' I'm going to submit this arguement to Pokemon.com, and hopefully they'll respond on the website. (You know that {{p|Phione}} controversy on the website when they changed their answer? ([http://www.pokemon.com/#mailbag_02042008]) I sent that question in.) --'''[[User:Theryguy512|<span style="color:#FF7F00">Theryguy</span>]][[User Talk:Theryguy512|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">512</span>]]''' 23:45, 3 March 2009 (UTC) | :::'''''I HAVE AN IDEA!!!''''' I'm going to submit this arguement to Pokemon.com, and hopefully they'll respond on the website. (You know that {{p|Phione}} controversy on the website when they changed their answer? ([http://www.pokemon.com/#mailbag_02042008]) I sent that question in.) --'''[[User:Theryguy512|<span style="color:#FF7F00">Theryguy</span>]][[User Talk:Theryguy512|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">512</span>]]''' 23:45, 3 March 2009 (UTC) | ||
::::what phione contreversy? | ::::what phione contreversy? {{unsigned|Lambie}} | ||
== Smeargle == | == Smeargle == | ||
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== Outside Of Battle image == | == Outside Of Battle image == | ||
I think the page would look cleaner if the outside of battle image was moved to the infobox, istead of just floating around on the page and making it look untidy. This should also be done for other moves with out of battle images. | I think the page would look cleaner if the outside of battle image was moved to the infobox, istead of just floating around on the page and making it look untidy. This should also be done for other moves with out of battle images. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|<span style="color:#FFFFFF; background-color:#6890F0">'''Vuvuzela2010''']]</span>[[Latios (Pokémon)|<span style="color:red; background-color:#6890F0"> Δ ]]</span> 11:55, 19 November 2011 (UTC) | ||
[[User:Vuvuzela2010|<span style="color:#FFFFFF; background-color:#6890F0">'''Vuvuzela2010''']]</span>[[Latios (Pokémon)|<span style="color:red; background-color:#6890F0"> Δ ]]</span> 11:55, 19 November 2011 (UTC) | |||
:Could I get at least get a reply please? There's been 4 edits to this section, yet no-ones bothered replying. Sorry if this comes across as being rude, it's not supposed to be. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|<span style="color:#FFFFFF; background-color:#6890F0">'''Vuvuzela2010''']]</span>[[Latios (Pokémon)|<span style="color:red; background-color:#6890F0"> Δ ]]</span> 15:43, 19 November 2011 (UTC) | :Could I get at least get a reply please? There's been 4 edits to this section, yet no-ones bothered replying. Sorry if this comes across as being rude, it's not supposed to be. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|<span style="color:#FFFFFF; background-color:#6890F0">'''Vuvuzela2010''']]</span>[[Latios (Pokémon)|<span style="color:red; background-color:#6890F0"> Δ ]]</span> 15:43, 19 November 2011 (UTC) | ||
::Well, I have nothing against it.'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|<font color="#AB0909">電</font><font color="#063A73">禅</font>]]<small>[[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|<font color="#fff" face="Tahoma"><span style="text-shadow:#000 0.2em 0.1em 0.1em; class=texhtml">Den Zen</span></font>]]</small>''' 15:46, 19 November 2011 (UTC) | ::Well, I have nothing against it.'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|<font color="#AB0909">電</font><font color="#063A73">禅</font>]]<small>[[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|<font color="#fff" face="Tahoma"><span style="text-shadow:#000 0.2em 0.1em 0.1em; class=texhtml">Den Zen</span></font>]]</small>''' 15:46, 19 November 2011 (UTC) | ||
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== Pokémon Adventures == | == Pokémon Adventures == | ||
Cyrus's Magnezone used Fly or Magnet Rise? Cynthia's Garchomp is really "flying through the skies" as the text in this page states or only running, with Dragon Rush or something? These are allowed in the table while a Pikachu flying with balloons (what's considered "Fly" by the TCG and [[Media:Yellow Forest US Art. | Cyrus's Magnezone used Fly or Magnet Rise? Cynthia's Garchomp is really "flying through the skies" as the text in this page states or only running, with Dragon Rush or something? These are allowed in the table while a Pikachu flying with balloons (what's considered "Fly" by the TCG and [[Media:Yellow Forest US Art.png|game art]]) is not? [[User talk:Duke R|'''<font color="#0a0" face="Lucida Sans Unicode">|) u |( e</font>''']] [[Special:Contributions/Duke R|'''<font color="#b00" face="Verdana">®</font>''']] 22:32, 17 January 2012 (UTC) | ||
:Magnet Rise is a completely different move. It allows a Pokemon to levitate over Ground-type attacks. The manga usually stays true to the games move-wise, so when a Trainer is flying on a Pokemon's back, it's usually Fly. ...um, running? There have been several parts where Garchomp is flying... when its fighting Cyrus in Celestic Town, in Veilstone City, and on Spear Pillar to name three off the top of my head. [[User:Littlmiget123|Littlmiget123]] 02:35, 18 January 2012 (UTC) | :Magnet Rise is a completely different move. It allows a Pokemon to levitate over Ground-type attacks. The manga usually stays true to the games move-wise, so when a Trainer is flying on a Pokemon's back, it's usually Fly. ...um, running? There have been several parts where Garchomp is flying... when its fighting Cyrus in Celestic Town, in Veilstone City, and on Spear Pillar to name three off the top of my head. [[User:Littlmiget123|Littlmiget123]] 02:35, 18 January 2012 (UTC) | ||
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Is it worth noting that (in Emerald at least), Poké balls can be successfully thrown at wild Pokémon in the semi-invulnerable turn of Fly? I tried to catch Rayquaza several times in this way but it broke free of the Ball. Also, this is slightly off-topic, but I have confirmed that in Pearl and White, the semi-invulnerable stage of Shadow Force and Dig prevents capture. —<small>'''[[User:Team Magma Zangoose|<span style="color:#444444">Team Magma</span>]] [[User talk:Team Magma Zangoose|<span style="color:#A00000">Zangoose ⚡</span>]]'''</small> 02:19, 30 September 2012 (UTC) | Is it worth noting that (in Emerald at least), Poké balls can be successfully thrown at wild Pokémon in the semi-invulnerable turn of Fly? I tried to catch Rayquaza several times in this way but it broke free of the Ball. Also, this is slightly off-topic, but I have confirmed that in Pearl and White, the semi-invulnerable stage of Shadow Force and Dig prevents capture. —<small>'''[[User:Team Magma Zangoose|<span style="color:#444444">Team Magma</span>]] [[User talk:Team Magma Zangoose|<span style="color:#A00000">Zangoose ⚡</span>]]'''</small> 02:19, 30 September 2012 (UTC) | ||
:This is noted on [[Poké Ball#Poké Ball accuracy]]. I think it would be appropriate to add it to all pages about moves with a semi-invulnerable turn. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 08:45, 29 November 2012 (UTC) | |||
== Chuchu == | == Chuchu == | ||
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#The move Fly has been used by the Flying Pikachu in the TCG and depicted as a Pikachu wrapped by strings with floating balloons. A Pikachu with Fly could also be found in the Pokéwalker Area Yellow Forest, whose artwork had exactly the same situation. However, for some reason, Bulbapedia staff does not believe that a move is legitimate if it needs an object that does not belong to the Pokémon (even with examples like Genesect's Drives and Rotom's home appliances). | #The move Fly has been used by the Flying Pikachu in the TCG and depicted as a Pikachu wrapped by strings with floating balloons. A Pikachu with Fly could also be found in the Pokéwalker Area Yellow Forest, whose artwork had exactly the same situation. However, for some reason, Bulbapedia staff does not believe that a move is legitimate if it needs an object that does not belong to the Pokémon (even with examples like Genesect's Drives and Rotom's home appliances). | ||
:So, the only thing we can do here so far is to leave this information in the Trivia section, and try to make productive edits in other articles. [[User:Duke R|'''<font color="#444" face="Lucida Sans Unicode">|) u |( e</font>''']] [[User talk:Duke R|'''<font color="#b00" face="Verdana">®</font>''']] 23:53, 14 November 2012 (UTC) | :So, the only thing we can do here so far is to leave this information in the Trivia section, and try to make productive edits in other articles. [[User:Duke R|'''<font color="#444" face="Lucida Sans Unicode">|) u |( e</font>''']] [[User talk:Duke R|'''<font color="#b00" face="Verdana">®</font>''']] 23:53, 14 November 2012 (UTC) | ||
== Forced learning == | |||
I'm getting reports that the information put in the generation VI section is false, and that you can refuse to learn it. Anyone able to try this? [[User:Turtwig A|<font color="#CD7F32">Turtwig</font> <font color="#FF7F00">A</font>]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|<font color="#green">talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|<font color="#yellow">contribs</font>]]) 02:34, 8 November 2013 (UTC) | |||
==Y== | |||
Just noticed that Charizard has "Y" as alt text in the chart for Pokémon that can learn Fly via HM (indicating that it can learn Fly in Yellow, but not Red/Blue/Green). The meaning of that tag has become a lot more ambiguous, now that there is a "Pokémon Y" as well as a "Mega Charizard Y". It's probably simple enough to change the alt text, but I wanted to bring this to someone's attention in case this problem exists elsewhere on the wiki as well. --[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy<sup>P</sup><sub>K</sub><sup>M</sup><sub>N</sub>]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 17:08, 9 November 2013 (UTC) | |||
== Removing a Notification == | |||
[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Fly_(move)&diff=0&oldid=2066340 This Edit] removes a notification template, suggesting that it is complete, despite there still being holes (such as Lugia and Ho-oh). Would it be alright for it to be reverted? or was it removed for a reason? [[User:Tacopill|Tacopill]] ([[User talk:Tacopill|talk]]) 00:42, 3 February 2014 (UTC) | |||
: reverted, sorry about that --[[User:StatelessDrake|StatelessDrake]] ([[User talk:StatelessDrake|talk]]) 01:00, 3 February 2014 (UTC) | |||
::Not a problem :) [[User:Tacopill|Tacopill]] ([[User talk:Tacopill|talk]]) 01:53, 3 February 2014 (UTC) | |||
== "spots they've been to" == | |||
What exactly does that mean for towns? Does it require the player to heal? Does it require them to enter the Pokécenter? Or does it just require them to enter the region of the town? [[User:Nixitur|Nixitur]] ([[User talk:Nixitur|talk]]) 22:45, 8 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
: In towns, it usually just brings you to the Pokémon Center, as long as you've healed there. In your hometown, it just brings you to your house. At least, I think that's how it works. - [[User:Pringles|Pringles]] 00:23, 9 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
:: That's great and all, but completely unrelated to what I asked. I was asking what the requirements were to being able to fly to a specific place. [[User:Nixitur|Nixitur]] ([[User talk:Nixitur|talk]]) 23:30, 9 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::Pringles partially answered: ". . .as long as you've healed there." However, I was always under the impression that you merely had to step within the boundaries of the town. --[[User:WyndFox|<span style="color:#992232">Wynd</span>]] [[User talk:WyndFox|<span style="color:2B65EC">Fox</span>]] 23:52, 9 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
::::You just have to enter the town/city.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#025DA6">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#5A96C5">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EA1A3E">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#F16A81">ire</span>]] 03:01, 10 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::::There are some exceptions, like B/W's Opelucid City where you need to hear Plasma's speech and you can't Fly to the Center. I'm also curious about if you can Fly to Ever Grande City since the boundaries are just outside the waterfall.--[[User:Flametix|Flametix]] ([[User talk:Flametix|talk]]) 13:06, 14 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
::::::Evergrande City is also the exception. I believe you have to climb the waterfall before you can actually fly there. --[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#025DA6">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#5A96C5">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EA1A3E">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#F16A81">ire</span>]] 13:16, 14 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::::::Yeah, I'm not sure about the specific requirements, but I tried back in Emerald, and I couldn't Fly there before climbing it. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 13:22, 14 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
::::::::Would the best way to define the requirements be something along the line of the following? "The player can fly to a location provided that the player has reached a point in the location where they no longer need a HM or TM to reach the building and all events inbetween the player and the building have {{tt|already been activated|Alt: concluded}}." --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 06:31, 15 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
== Incorrect Trivia == | |||
"Out of all moves that have been HMs in all six generations, Fly is the only one that some Pokémon can learn by leveling up. (Though the move Waterfall also existed in all generations and some Pokémon can learn it via leveling up, it was not an HM until Generation II.)" | |||
This is incorrect, as Seel can learn Dive in generation 5 by levelup. {{unsigned|Ztc0611}} | |||
:"in all six generations." Even if you said "in all generations since it existed", Dive was not an [[HM]] in Gen IV. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:28, 28 September 2016 (UTC) | |||
== Gen VII Fly locations == | |||
Since it isn't just "all Pokémon Centers plus one or two others" like it always was prior to Gen VI, I thought I'd make up a list of fly locations like we have for ORAS. Right now, it's [[User:Xolroc/Gen_VII_Fly_Locations|here]], and I'd appreciate input. Feel free to edit, too; I'm well aware it doesn't look very good. [[User:Xolroc|Xolroc]] ([[User talk:Xolroc|talk]]) 18:17, 15 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
:My main problem is that it isn't even Fly, the move. I see several options: | |||
:#Include here regardless | |||
:#Include at [[Poké Ride]] | |||
:#Create '''Charizard Glide''', add there | |||
:#Create '''List of landing locations''' (or similar), include what's currently here and what you created there (and keep [[Soaring in the sky]] in mind) | |||
:I'm not really sure what is best, but I think it isn't Option 1. Anyway, I think it's definitely useful. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 23:44, 15 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
::Including it here is likely not the best, but whatever we do it should probably be linked to from here, as Charizard Glide does serve exactly the same purpose as Fly did in previous games. [[User:Xolroc|Xolroc]] ([[User talk:Xolroc|talk]]) 23:51, 15 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
::I should also note, I think that the '''List of landing locations''' page is probably the best of those options. It would cover previous games as well, and we could take some of the tables out of this page, linking to that one instead. [[User:Xolroc|Xolroc]] ([[User talk:Xolroc|talk]]) 23:52, 15 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
:::I think we could make a "{{redlink|flight}}" article, and include lists of all Fly, Soaring, and Charizard Glide locations (including specific landing positions) and their unlock conditions. I have a list of the unlock conditions for every flight location in SM that I've been compiling while playing the game, and I already added the ORAS flight conditions I collected to this page. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 02:17, 16 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
::::That sounds like a good idea. If you'd like, go ahead and add those unlock conditions to the table linked up above, or [[User:Xolroc/Gen_VII_Fly_Locations|here]] if you prefer--that would be useful information to have on it. [[User:Xolroc|Xolroc]] ([[User talk:Xolroc|talk]]) 03:04, 16 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
:::::I just made [[User:SnorlaxMonster/Flight]], which has all of the requirements to Fly to each location. There are a few option locations near the start of the game (such as Ten Carat Hill) which might also have requirements, but I didn't keep track of them. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 10:19, 3 March 2017 (UTC) | |||
== Lock On/Mind Reader oddity in GSC == | |||
While Lock On/Mind Reader will generally cause moves to bypass Fly (and Dig) in GSC, there are some oddities: | |||
* Earthquake/Fissure/Magnitude will still not hit through Fly (however the reverse doesn't apply -- Gust/Twister/etc will still hit underground foes) | |||
* Status moves that bypass accuracy checks but not Fly/Dig will still miss even when Lock On/Mind Reader is active (Mimic, Mean Look, Curse used by a Ghost, Foresight, Attract, Nightmare, Transform) | |||
* Moves that reduce a foe's stat will not do so if the foe is flying/digging. For moves that has this as primary effect, the move will simply fail and for moves which does this as a secondary effect, the move will just not lower the stat. | |||
Is this worth addressing? The EQ/Fissure/Magnitude thing probably should be mentioned IMO, the latter is almost certainly a glitch, and I'm not sure if this is the right place for that. --[[User:FIQ|FIQ]] ([[User talk:FIQ|talk]]) 11:20, 2 March 2017 (UTC) | |||
:In addition: | |||
:*OHKO moves' accuracy is unaffected by Lock On/Mind Reader (and/but will still always fail if the target is semi-invulnerable, with the exception of Fissure+Dig) | |||
:I believe all of this is potentially notable. Maybe the issue is, when did these effects change (if at all)? We would need to note that, too. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:59, 2 March 2017 (UTC) | |||
::When I look through the OHKO battle script in GSC, Lock On's behaviour doesn't seem to change for OHKO moves? For whatever reason, it calls CheckHit from OHKO directly rather than as an ordinary battle script command after OHKO has done its thing (the OHKO command is for adjusting accuracy scaled on level and to prevent it from proccing if user level>target level and for setting damage to 65535), but CheckHit itself has no special handling for OHKO moves from what I can see (besides Fissure as mentioned). | |||
::I don't know when/how the effects have changed. I haven't looked into RBY's code much because it's a mess (surprise!), and ADV isn't fully reverse-engineered to the point where things like this is easy to check. | |||
::I also addressed a typo in my previous comment -- replaced Mind Reader/Lock On in the list of affected moves with Mean Look, but it should be correct now. --[[User:FIQ|FIQ]] ([[User talk:FIQ|talk]]) 18:15, 2 March 2017 (UTC) | |||
:::I have now added a note on Magnitude/EQ/Fissure. I assume the effect was removed in III, but I don't know so I put a MoveResearch template as a result (I cannot test this myself at present). --[[User:FIQ|FIQ]] ([[User talk:FIQ|talk]]) 18:24, 2 March 2017 (UTC) | |||
::::(conflicted)Yes, [https://github.com/pret/pokecrystal/blob/f0209d6ed6a0cd0e759dff49bdfe4d8171229c29/battle/effect_commands.asm#L7210 the OHKO routine] apparently does all the "accuracy" checks itself, and then calls checkHit with perfect accuracy $ff (for Dig etc. interactions, I believe). | |||
::::If nothing else, we could just test. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 18:27, 2 March 2017 (UTC) | |||
:::::One of us is misreading the source, because that's not what I'm reading. I decided to comment the code for easier readability: http://sprunge.us/ieDb -- am I reading something wrong here? But yeah, we could just test I guess. --[[User:FIQ|FIQ]] ([[User talk:FIQ|talk]]) 18:50, 2 March 2017 (UTC) | |||
::::::If you want to continue this tangent in particular, maybe we should take it over to the Lock On/Mind Reader article discussion or PM since this doesn't really concern Fly. --[[User:FIQ|FIQ]] ([[User talk:FIQ|talk]]) 19:01, 2 March 2017 (UTC) | |||
:::::::I think these interactions are interesting and worth noting on the page, but it's also worth making sure they also apply in Stadium 2. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 06:51, 3 March 2017 (UTC) | |||
::::::::Oh, that one certainly was me, I think I mixed up labels or something. What I didn't know or think of is that OHKOs still fail if user's level < target's regardless of Lock On (but I could've guessed that they would have to, and our pages/wording do actually imply that). We can drop that tangent, I guess. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 18:48, 3 March 2017 (UTC) | |||
== PP Usage == | |||
I made a Pearl/SS battle on the cartridges and found that, if one uses Fly and the opponent uses Gravity, Fly will be canceled but PP will still be deducted, contrary to what it says [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Fly_(move)#Generation_I here]. Not sure which gen this change was made in, or whether it still applies to Mirror Move. [[User:CrazyGuy108|CrazyGuy108]] ([[User talk:CrazyGuy108|talk]]) 22:40, 4 May 2019 (UTC) | |||