Talk:Lugia (Pokémon): Difference between revisions

Talk:Lugia (Pokémon) (view source)

Revision as of 21:40, 24 September 2022

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→‎Lugia's origins

INTERNETFRIEND

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 I'm glad to have helped, if you or anyone else needs anything feel free to contact me~ [[User:Takoyaki|Takoyaki]] ([[User talk:Takoyaki|talk]]) 20:01, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
+To recap: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The above perusal of Shudo's blog entries suggest that he came up with the idea of a Pokémon "X" for the script he was writing, and then submitted this request to GAME FREAK and received Lugia in return. It should be pointed out Shudo has several points of order he is unhappy with with the Pokémon given to him to use in the movie.
+I acknowledge there is some semantic debate between 'create' and 'design' but you need to analyze how this is used in other situations. Satoshi Tajiri created the idea of Pokémon, but we do not usually credit Tajiri as the creator of every last Pokémon. Likewise, when a game designer submits a request for a Pokémon to the monster design team, we usually think of the monster designer as the given Pokémon's creator, not the game designer. There can be some room for manouver here depending on how precise the request is – if the game designer requests a "cute Pokémon" or a "bug Pokémon" or a "powerful looking Bug type", we'd usually say that the monster designer was the actual creator and designer, but if the game designer requests a "pink Pokémon with floral patterns" – yeah, no, Atsuko Nishida, one of the 18 people credited as Pokémon Character Designer in Pokémon Black and White is credited as Munna's designer, and we never see anyone suggest any of the four individuals who wrote that line in Pokémon Red and Green is its creator instead of Nishida.
+If Shudo had requested to Game Freak "I want a Psychic/Flying bird/dragon-esque Pokémon that is Ho-Oh's counterpart called Lugia" or something even nearing that, the semantic debate of Lugia's creation would be fair ball. What is had instead is "I want a new Pokémon for this movie I'm writing – which, for the sake of it, we'll call X for now," and Game Freak actually came back to him with a Pokémon which looks suspiciously similar to scrapped Pokémon found in beta builds of Pokémon 2. Still, maybe there is some room here for creation vs designed.
+There are 8 individuals credited as Pokémon Designers in the final build of Pokémon Gold and Silver. Ken Sugimori, Motofumi Fujiwara, Shigeki Morimoto, Atsuko Nishida, Hironobu Yoshida, Muneo Saito, Satoshi Oota, and Rena Yoshikawa. Shudo doesn't even get a special thanks. Not in Gold and Silver, not in Pokémon Crystal, not any game subsequent. For those unaware, the animation team of Mewtwo Strikes Back Evolution had to get permission from Shudo's estate to create that movie at all, and the Mewtwo in the XY movies was deliberately a 'legally distinct' character from the Mewtwo of M1, which was written by Shudo. Whatever the nature of the contract Shudo, as a movie writer, had with Nintendo/Creatures/Game Freak/otherwise at the time, it certainly doesn't sound like one where anyone would be inclined to put a Pokémon he might have intellectual property rights to in their games, in perpetuity. Why would they need Shudo's permission to include a characterization of Mewtwo, a Pokémon no one would seriously argue he created or designed, but not his permission to include a Pokémon he allegedly created, in the video games? The answer is pretty clear – he isn't Lugia's creator. If that is good enough for the law, it should be good enough for Bulbapedia. But that's not even what I'm looking for here.
+It's really just about cutting this rumor off from being spread as 'fact', and Bulbapedia is a reputable source on this circle of the internet. What cannot be demonstrably proven should not be left up on the site until proven false. I am not looking for this article or Shudo's article either, to act as staging grounds to revert this 'fact' from continuing to spread online. What I'm looking for is a concession that we don't know for sure the degree to how involved, detailed, or exact Shudo's request is – we also don't know for sure whether they didn't just give Shudo a new version of a beta design they had already been working on.
+Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. No evidence exists to suggest Shudo created Lugia. --[[User:INTERNETFRIEND|INTERNETFRIEND]] ([[User talk:INTERNETFRIEND|talk]]) 21:40, 24 September 2022 (UTC)