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Talk:Tier/Archive 2: Difference between revisions
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== we need some help == | == we need some help == | ||
We need to make some real big changes like empoleon should be in OU from all the resistances it has, and some other changes.{{unsigned|Nido3000}} | We need to make some real big changes like empoleon should be in OU from all the resistances it has, and some other changes.{{unsigned|Nido3000}} | ||
:Garchomp being Uber will never be true. It is counter-able by even some NUs, something that no Uber could ever be. <sup><big>[[user:chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">Cho</span>]][[user talk:chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">col</span>]][[special:contributions/chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">ate</span>]]</big></sup> 13:27, 25 October 2008 (UTC) | :Garchomp being Uber will never be true. It is counter-able by even some NUs, something that no Uber could ever be. <sup><big>[[user:chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">Cho</span>]][[user talk:chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">col</span>]][[special:contributions/chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">ate</span>]]</big></sup> 13:27, 25 October 2008 (UTC) | ||
::Been on Smogon lately? Garchomp is uber. It was tested by experts and its status was voted upon. It was all very professionally done. <small>- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' </small> 20:05, 1 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
:::Then explain how my "NU" Castform can kick its carcus hard with {{m|Blizzard}}. <sup><big>[[user:chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">Cho</span>]][[user talk:chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">col</span>]][[special:contributions/chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">ate</span>]]</big></sup> 01:07, 4 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
::::Or why Shedinja eats Kyogre. [[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 05:03, 5 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
== Uhhh == | == Uhhh == | ||
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:Don't all tier lists consist of opinion as well as a few facts? Don't like this one? Make your own. [[User:Gywall|<span style="color:#FF8800">'''Gyw</span><span style="color:#FFAE00">all'''</span>]]<sup>([[User_talk:Gywall|Talk]])</sup> 10:05, 15 October 2008 (UTC) | :Don't all tier lists consist of opinion as well as a few facts? Don't like this one? Make your own. [[User:Gywall|<span style="color:#FF8800">'''Gyw</span><span style="color:#FFAE00">all'''</span>]]<sup>([[User_talk:Gywall|Talk]])</sup> 10:05, 15 October 2008 (UTC) | ||
:Or take it to the forums for discussion. [[User:Gywall|<span style="color:#FF8800">'''Gyw</span><span style="color:#FFAE00">all'''</span>]]<sup>([[User_talk:Gywall|Talk]])</sup> 10:05, 15 October 2008 (UTC) | :Or take it to the forums for discussion. [[User:Gywall|<span style="color:#FF8800">'''Gyw</span><span style="color:#FFAE00">all'''</span>]]<sup>([[User_talk:Gywall|Talk]])</sup> 10:05, 15 October 2008 (UTC) | ||
::Mr Black, you have my thanks. I've been begging for updates for ages but to no avail. I agree on everything you've said so far (with only the possible exception of Blaziken) and this thing really needs work. | |||
::I've actually seen quite a lot of Tentacruel lately, and that's in OU. It's those decent defensive stats combined with Rapid Spin and Toxic Spikes that make him so valuable. | |||
::I have no freaking clue what Claydol is doing in OU. He's UU, sure, he's a top-quality UU, but he certainly should never be higher than BL. | |||
::Like I've said, the huge things that are really eating me are Garchomp and Scizor. Anyone who play competitively knows that almost every team has a Scizor, and that none of them have Garchomp because he's Uber. | |||
::Also, as much as I love Umbreon, he's not as good as he was back in ADV. Drop him down to BL. [[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 05:23, 5 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
==Garchomp Uber?== | |||
I'll say that Garchomp should be in the Borderline tier. I can OHKO a Garchomp with an Ice Beam easily. | |||
Yeah well I can due that to dragonite and salamence but without ice beam their good, doesn't matter what you can do. | |||
:My god. If you think Garchomp is BL, you are freaking retarded. I don't mean to be rude, but he's been known as one of the most devastatingly fearsome OUs since D/P came out, and now he's considered to powerful for OU and Smogon moved him up to Uber. <br> | |||
:The fact is, a Pokémon can't be considered weak just because it has one compound weakness. The vast majority of Pokémon actually do have one (think Scizor, one of the most popular Pokémon in the game right now.) Also, nearly all Garchomps carried Yache berries, meaning they can take an Ice Beam and KO you due to those powerful moves and a massive Attack stat. It was way too common for Garchomp sweeps to decide the outcome of a battle, so Smogon banned him. They did their research, too, it wasn't a hasty decision. They spent upwards of a month battling without him to see how the metagame would change, and his disappearance changed everything. <br> | |||
:You know a Pokémon's popular when people EV their Special Attack stat specifically to KO him. [[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 05:12, 5 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
== Can somebody, ANYBODY update this????? == | == Can somebody, ANYBODY update this????? == | ||
It's like, rotting in the garbage can... Garchomp is now uber... Articuno's UU, etc. You get my point. ---[[User:JirachiWishmaker0802|JirachiWishmaker0802]] 06:36, 15 October 2008 (UTC) | It's like, rotting in the garbage can... Garchomp is now uber... Articuno's UU, etc. You get my point. ---[[User:JirachiWishmaker0802|JirachiWishmaker0802]] 06:36, 15 October 2008 (UTC) | ||
:Please PLEASE update this list! I can't believe how long it's been! Does anybody even have the power to? Garchomp in OU and Scizor in BL are the huge killers for me. It's so horrible, and nobody's edited it in months! [[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 05:14, 5 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
::We're discussing DELETING it, dude. Calm down. --[[User:Martonimos|((<font color="#008000">Marton</font>]] [[User talk:Martonimos|<font color="#50C878">imos</font>))]] 05:18, 5 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
:::If it'd just be updated for once, it wouldn't need deleting! [[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 05:26, 5 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
::::Nah. We've decided that BP is not a competitive battling site, so it has no place here. At all. --[[User:Martonimos|((<font color="#008000">Marton</font>]] [[User talk:Martonimos|<font color="#50C878">imos</font>))]] 04:17, 6 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
==Clamperl?!== | ==Clamperl?!== | ||
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:I think more important than the fact that people don't come to Bulbapedia to see tiers is that having such a subjective list on this site will be too unmanageable. If we do become a resource for battling, we would have many, many people complaining about how this subjective list is not subjected to their own subjective views. --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 06:33, 31 October 2008 (UTC) | :I think more important than the fact that people don't come to Bulbapedia to see tiers is that having such a subjective list on this site will be too unmanageable. If we do become a resource for battling, we would have many, many people complaining about how this subjective list is not subjected to their own subjective views. --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 06:33, 31 October 2008 (UTC) | ||
::True no-one comes to Bulbapedia for tiers...only if there was an official tier list...--[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 06:37, 31 October 2008 (UTC) | ::True no-one comes to Bulbapedia for tiers...only if there was an official tier list...--[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 06:37, 31 October 2008 (UTC) | ||
:::If only. [http://www.smogon.com/dp/tiers/] [[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 05:30, 5 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
==overused?== | |||
How could {{p|Regice}} be in the Overused tier when {{p|Regigigas}} is not?! | |||
I do think {{p|Empoleon}} belongs in the Overused tier. {{unsigned|Masterdude}} | |||
:Regigigas ability makes it horrible. That's why it's not OU. Regice is OU because it is the best Special wall in the game; after one {{m|Amnesia}}, it isn't even 3HKO'd by super effective Special attacks. <sup><big>[[user:chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">Cho</span>]][[user talk:chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">col</span>]][[special:contributions/chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">ate</span>]]</big></sup> 22:30, 31 October 2008 (UTC) | |||
::Then what about Physical Attacks like Flare Blitz?<small>- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Masterdude|Masterdude]] ([[User talk:Masterdude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Masterdude|contribs]]){{ #if: |  {{{2}}} |}}''</small> | |||
:::seriously, empoleon, tortera and infernape are so OU. ~Masterdude~ | |||
::::Physical attacks also won't do much to a Pokémon with 100 base {{stat|Defense}}. Just think about it. Regice has 80 base {{stat|HP}}, 50 base {{stat|Attack}} and {{stat|Speed}}, 100 base Defense and {{stat|Special Attack}}, and a colossal 200 base {{stat|Special Defense}}. I think it's safe to say that Regice is OU. <sup><big>[[user:chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">Cho</span>]][[user talk:chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">col</span>]][[special:contributions/chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">ate</span>]]</big></sup> 01:00, 4 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
But I say that Regigigas is a definite OU if you use it properly in double battles.Just remove its ability with Gastro Acid or Skill Swap and Regigigas is back in action. {{unsigned|Masterdude}} | |||
:the tiers are gone, no more discussions about it, please. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#000033;">MAG</span>]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|<span style="color:#696969;">NE</span>]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#000033;">DETH</span>]]''' 02:45, 16 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
== Suggestion == | |||
Why not change this page to list different tier lists from prominent websites such as Smogon? Then, we wouldn't have people bitching about how it's done on this talk page, but rather they'd have to bitch about it on the website in question. <small>- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' </small> 20:07, 1 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
:Very true that would be a good idea--[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 05:07, 5 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
==Empoleon== | |||
I really think Empoleon belongs to the Overused tier due to its major resistances, 1 immunity, not effected by sandstorm and resists stealth rock. Also adding its super special attack stat makes this pokemon worthy of being OU. [[User:Masterdude|Masterdude]] 21:28, 5 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
:Look up in {{tt|the sky!|The top of the page!}} "''The tier list on this page is being considered for removal. Please do not discuss the contents of the tier list during this process, but rather make arguments for and against the removal.''"--[[Blastoise (Pokémon)|<font color="green">K</font>]][[Gary's Blastoise|<font color="green">kl</font>]][[Blastoise (TCG)|<font color="black">l</font>]][[User:Kkllnn|<font color="pink">nn</font>]] <small>[[User Talk:Kkllnn| blastoise]]</small> 21:34, 5 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
== Overhaul == | |||
the page has been completely redone. is everyone happy now? -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#000033;">MAG</span>]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|<span style="color:#696969;">NE</span>]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#000033;">DETH</span>]]''' 06:27, 10 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
:Except for the fact that you moved it into the wrong name space, I like the page a lot better now. <sup>[[user:chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">Cho</span>]][[user talk:chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">col</span>]][[special:contributions/chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">ate</span>]]</sup> 21:30, 10 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
::One more thing is that the '''Links''' should be '''External links'''. XD [[User:Tesh|<span style="color:#B7AD96; font-family: Georgia;">TESH</span>]][[User_talk:Tesh|<span style="color:#B7AD96; font-family: Georgia;">IGIGAS</span>]] 21:32, 10 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
:::Also, {{p|Beautifly}} and {{p|Butterfree}} are mixed up, and {{p|Exploud}} is UU, not NU. The NU tier only existed in [[Generation III]], [http://www.smogon.com/rs/pokemon/exploud but Exploud was UU then.] <sup>[[user:chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">Cho</span>]][[user talk:chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">col</span>]][[special:contributions/chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">ate</span>]]</sup> 21:34, 10 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
::::this ^^^ is exactly why we got rid of tiers. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#000033;">MAG</span>]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|<span style="color:#696969;">NE</span>]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#000033;">DETH</span>]]''' 23:27, 10 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
::::ive changed some Pokemon around. also, while it "was NU, and is now UU" may be, the fact of the matter is it ''was'' NU, and its their for definition. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#000033;">MAG</span>]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|<span style="color:#696969;">NE</span>]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#000033;">DETH</span>]]''' 23:46, 10 November 2008 (UTC) | |||