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Was it ever mentioned that winning the Pokémon League makes you that region's Champion in the anime? Tobias and Cynthia seem to be extremely different cases. In fact, I would think that winning the league would allow access to the Champion League, which as far as I understand it, is an invite-only tournament for Elite Four members, the regional Champion, and probably "Sinnoh League Victors" to compete in. That is speculation, but so is assuming that winning the league automatically makes them the Champion. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 11:14, 24 November 2011 (UTC) | Was it ever mentioned that winning the Pokémon League makes you that region's Champion in the anime? Tobias and Cynthia seem to be extremely different cases. In fact, I would think that winning the league would allow access to the Champion League, which as far as I understand it, is an invite-only tournament for Elite Four members, the regional Champion, and probably "Sinnoh League Victors" to compete in. That is speculation, but so is assuming that winning the league automatically makes them the Champion. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 11:14, 24 November 2011 (UTC) | ||
:No from what I remember in the anime Ash only got a cup when he won a League. It seems like a yearly event. Then next year another winner is crowned and given the cup. I dunno if they obtain the title of "Champion". Also the definition of "Champion" in the anime has not been explained well. All they keep saying is that they are the best trainer in the region yet. They don't seem to have any special role with the Pokemon League unlike the Gym Leaders (Cynthia is an example). [[User:Blueknightex|Blueknightex]] 11:06, 18 May 2012 (UTC) | :No from what I remember in the anime Ash only got a cup when he won a League. It seems like a yearly event. Then next year another winner is crowned and given the cup. I dunno if they obtain the title of "Champion". Also the definition of "Champion" in the anime has not been explained well. All they keep saying is that they are the best trainer in the region yet. They don't seem to have any special role with the Pokemon League unlike the Gym Leaders (Cynthia is an example). [[User:Blueknightex|Blueknightex]] 11:06, 18 May 2012 (UTC) | ||
::Despite being over four years old, I would like to bump this section (given recent events in the anime), since it still has not been addressed. To my knowledge, the anime has never stated that winning a Pokémon League Conference makes you the Champion, yet we are still labeling pages as if it does. On the other hand, we have evidence that this is not the case (e.g. Flint challenging Cynthia for the title of Champion), so I really don't see why we continue to assume this is the case. The way the conference winner and regional Champion are portrayed is completely different. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 12:12, 18 August 2016 (UTC) | |||
== All champions' music remixed. == | == All champions' music remixed. == | ||
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He's clearly talking about Red, since in the remake they don't keep things about Red secret like in the original GSC, and just the fact that he's in the Champions Tournament of the World Tournament should tell you even more that he is a Champion. [[User:Lamarfll|Lamarfll]] ([[User talk:Lamarfll|talk]]) 02:09, 27 October 2012 (UTC) | He's clearly talking about Red, since in the remake they don't keep things about Red secret like in the original GSC, and just the fact that he's in the Champions Tournament of the World Tournament should tell you even more that he is a Champion. [[User:Lamarfll|Lamarfll]] ([[User talk:Lamarfll|talk]]) 02:09, 27 October 2012 (UTC) | ||
==Red as Champion== | |||
I think we can all establish the fact that there is canon evidence to support Red being Champion (eg. HG/SS reference, actual Champion title given, he can be fought, etc.). However, the only problem I have with this piece of information as it is would be the location. Red shouldn't be under Indigo Plateau, rather it should be Mt. Silver because he is not fought in Indigo Plateau itself. He shouldn't be categorized with Blue and Lance. [[User:Zorocario|Zorocario]] ([[User talk:Zorocario|talk]]) 03:23, 28 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
I think | :To put something on top, "The player has always met the Champion before challenging the Elite Four"? I don't remember seeing him in GSCHGSS before Mt. Silver. Shouldn't we correct that? [[User:TeudowEthan|TeudowEthan]] ([[User talk:TeudowEthan|talk]]) 08:20, 23 April 2014 (UTC) | ||
::Red is not the Champion in GSC/HGSS. He was the Champion at one point, but now Lance holds that title. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 09:19, 23 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
== Name. == | |||
Blue [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgNm2WZtGWY#t=7m52s refers] to himself as "League Champ" in FRLG. Oddly enough, seconds later he refers to the player as "Pokémon League Champion". [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 20:40, 27 December 2012 (UTC) | |||
== N as Champion? == | |||
Just out of curiosity, would N be canonically considered a Champion? He DOES beat Alder himself in Black and White, and you do have to fight him as (one of) the final boss after beating the Elite Four. I think he would fall under the same category as Blue, being a Champion only temporarily, and like Red, not listed as a Champion when fought. These are just my thoughts, but I'd like to know what you guys think. [[User:Zorocario|Zorocario]] ([[User talk:Zorocario|talk]]) 19:09, 9 February 2013 (UTC) | |||
:Quote from N just after he defeated Alder: | |||
::''"It's over! Never again will Pokémon be made to suffer or be held captive by humans. It's all thanks to my friend, Zekrom/Reshiram! <b>You may have the title of Champion…</b> But you can't stop me with just a title. Your soft heart has left you weak. Years ago, you lost your Pokémon, your partner, to sickness. In order to forget the pain in your heart, you wandered Unova… Who knows how long it's been since you've had to fight with your full strength? I actually kind of like that about you, though. <b>As a Trainer who far outmatches the Champion</b>, I shall issue an order across Unova: Trainers of the world, free your Pokémon!"''' | |||
:This seems to indicate that while he defeated Alder, he chose not to be Champion. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 03:49, 10 February 2013 (UTC) | |||
Yeah, but you can't choose to be champion. I think the champion is the strongest trainer in the region, or in the case of Indigo, regions. Basically, the champion is whoever defeats the last champion. I think while Alder had the legal title of Champion, but N was the true champion- he just didin't formalize it. I think it's sorta like how Lance is Champion in G/S/C/HG/SS, but Red is obviously stronger and was known to have beaten Lance a few years before. Maybe we should just include both of them. [[User:Unsuspectingfool|uNsUsPeCtInG fOoL]] ([[User talk:Unsuspectingfool|talk]]) 18:38, 20 April 2013 (UTC) | |||
:I don't think we should add him unless something explicitly says he's considered a champion to be honest. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 18:43, 20 April 2013 (UTC) | |||
::The Champion is not necessarily the strongest Trainer in the region, it's just the one who currently retains the title, who gets it through Pokémon League protocol. I don't believe N collected 8 Badges, so while he defeated the Elite Four, he wouldn't qualify to become Champion anyway (and he let Alder keep the title). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 13:30, 24 April 2013 (UTC) | |||
:::I know this isn't the newest thing ever, but I'd like to point out some things in favour of him being a storyline champion, like Red. I don't believe N would force his way through the Gates that check for badges, nor would he evade them. As you remember, he truly believed he was doing right, and he clearly didn't try and be a criminal, and I doubt he would enter the league without the badges. My second point being in the Super Music Collection for Pokemon Black and White, his battle theme is listed as "決戦", which translates to Decisive Battle. This title is only ever used by Champion Steven and N. Thoughts? [[User:ArtistKyurem|ArtistKyurem]] ([[User talk:ArtistKyurem|talk]]) 05:25, 10 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
::::The "''far outmatching the Champion''" phrase seems pretty clear. It's never been stated you're not allowed to refuse the title anyway. | |||
::::The name of the battle theme can be explained by the fact that the guy just summoned his [[N's Castle|Castle]] to [[N#In the games|attach]] to the Pokémon League, and that you're battling his {{p|Zekrom}}{{sup/5|Bl}}/{{p|Reshiram}}{{sup/5|W}} with your {{p|Reshiram}}{{sup/5|Bl}}/{{p|Zekrom}}{{sup/5|W}}, putting each others' beliefs on the line for the future of Unova.<p> | |||
::::So my thinking is: | |||
::::'''Did he have all the Badges?''' | |||
:::::→ '''No:''' If you're thinking you're gonna save the world, then Badges can probably wait. It's very possible for him to have said <nowiki>'</nowiki>''look over there!''<nowiki>'</nowiki>, and then storming in. | |||
:::::→ '''Yes, did he know that makes you the Champion?''' | |||
::::::→ '''No:''' He's ignorant. | |||
::::::→ '''Yes:''' He refused it. ''(the currently accepted solution)'' | |||
::::--'''<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em; font-size:110%">[[User:Det|<span style="color:gold">D</span><span style="color:orange">e</span><span style="color:red">t</span>]][[User talk:Det|<sup><font color="white">talk</font></sup>]]</span>''' 19:08, 15 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::::Keep in mind that the entirety of N's Castle is past thee Badge Check Gates; N was raised on the other side of them, so going between the main region and his home would not be necessarily intentionally evading them. The entirety of Team Plasma, even those who followed Rood and N in B2W2 and actually loved Pokémon, was past the Badge Check Gates, so I don't think it is appropriate to think about the members evading the gates as much as just having their base of operations past them. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 09:24, 23 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
::::::Well, it was and it wasn't. I think you're overlooking the fact that the [[N's Castle|Castle]] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifikhFHOcpk&t=1m58s dug out] from ''behind'' what was the [[Pokémon League (Unova)|Pokémon League]], and let's stress that: it was ''underground''. So this doesn't necessarily mean the entirety of [[Team Plasma]] were some mole men digging into the surface, climbing past the back wall of the Pokémon League, negligently passing [[Alder]], the guards and the difficult terrained [[Victory Road (Black and White)|Victory Road]] on their evil missions to do evil deeds to good people. | |||
::::::If the whole Castle can levitate that easily, I'm betting it has some kind of highly advanced, energy-efficient undetectable excavation system as well. Perhaps based on [[Wikipedia:Perpetual motion|perpetual motion]], as breaking the [[Wikipedia:Laws of physics|laws of physics]] seems big deal. --'''<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em; font-size:110%">[[User:Det|<span style="color:gold">D</span><span style="color:orange">e</span><span style="color:red">t</span>]][[User talk:Det|<sup><font color="white">talk</font></sup>]]</span>''' 00:50, 30 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
:I definitely think N is a Champion like Blue, AKA a temporary Champion. He should also be listed.--[[User:BlackButterfree|BlackButterfree]] ([[User talk:BlackButterfree|talk]]) 00:57, 10 May 2014 (UTC) | |||
::Are you mocking his intelligence, too? --'''<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em; font-size:110%">[[User:Det|<span style="color:gold">D</span><span style="color:orange">e</span><span style="color:red">t</span>]][[User talk:Det|<sup><font color="white">talk</font></sup>]]</span>''' 18:01, 20 May 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::Whose intelligence am I mocking? O.o N beat the current Champion, and even if he denounced the title, it's still his. Then the player beats him and then beats Adler. --[[User:BlackButterfree|BlackButterfree]] ([[User talk:BlackButterfree|talk]]) 18:43, 2 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
::::Like I said, he either didn't have all the badges to qualify for the title, or if he did, the phrase <i>"As a Trainer who far outmatches the Champion"</i> either means he's ignorant enough not to know that or he refused the title (e.g. being against the whole ideology). | |||
::::So basically, only if he was ignorant, would he had been the temporary Champion. --'''<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em; font-size:110%">[[User:Det|<span style="color:gold">D</span><span style="color:orange">e</span><span style="color:red">t</span>]][[User talk:Det|<sup><font color="white">talk</font></sup>]]</span>''' 23:27, 10 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::::N is not a Champion because he did not take the helm of the Champion, like Blue did.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#025DA6">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#5A96C5">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EA1A3E">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#F16A81">ire</span>]] 02:50, 11 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
== If Red is considered a champion, shouldn't all protagonists be considered champions as well? == | |||
After you beat the champion in any game technically you are the new champion. So, shouldn't the other protagonists be put on the list of champions? | |||
I can't really think of a reason why Red is the only one there except you can actually met him in game unlike other protagonists. Still, that shouldn't exclude other character from the list. | |||
I think Red should be put in another list. A "non-active champion" section, since Red never actually plays the role of the champion in any of the games (unless you count the Pokemon World Tournament which I don't because a champion's main role is to be the final challenger in the Pokemon League and the PWT isn't a part of that). | |||
[[User:Coolcatkim22|Coolcatkim22]] ([[User talk:Coolcatkim22|talk]]) 15:01, 24 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
:My memory is a bit fuzzy on this, but wasn't Red mentioned to be a former Champion in GSC/HGSS?--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#025DA6">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#5A96C5">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EA1A3E">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#F16A81">ire</span>]] 01:03, 25 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
::I am fairly sure Blue implies Red overtook his position or something along the lines when you met him on the Cinnabar Island (or what left of it). [[User:Eridanus|Eridanus]] ([[User talk:Eridanus|talk]]) 06:50, 25 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
== Pseudo Legendary Pokemon == | |||
We should place something in the trivia about how each champion with the exception of red wallace and Alder own pseudo legendary pokemon--[[User:Just a simple edit|Just a simple edit]] ([[User talk:Just a simple edit|talk]]) 15:37, 7 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
:Three exceptions out of nine means that that trivia is hardly notable. —[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy<sup>P</sup><sub>K</sub><sup>M</sup><sub>N</sub>]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 15:51, 7 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
== Iris and Diantha == | |||
Since Iris is the champion in Black 2 and White 2, the Opelucid Gym Leader in White, and is expected to run the gym in the anime, should it be stated that Iris is the first Champion Ash battled? Or does that bit of information go to Diantha? I think I left something about this on Diantha's page, but I can't remember, and this topic has my curiosity piqued. [[User:WATERWARRIOR67|<span style="color: #000080">WATER</span>]][[User talk:WATERWARRIOR67|<span style="color: #4cbb17">Warrior</span>]]<span style="color: #000080">6</span><span style="color: #4cbb17">7</span> 18:50, 9 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
:Iris is not a Pokémon Champion in the anime, so you can't say Ash was battling a Champion when battling her. And Diantha wasn't the first Champion Ash went up against, Alder was.--[[User:Mikuri|<span style="color:#2b915e;">'''Mi'''</span>]][[User talk: Mikuri|<span style="color:#52cc91;">'''ku'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Mikuri|<span style="color:#8debbc;">'''ri'''</span>]] 00:05, 10 December 2014 (UTC) | |||
== Alder == | |||
How do we know that Alder specializes in Bug types? [[User:WATERWARRIOR67|<span style="color: #000080">WATER</span>]][[User talk:WATERWARRIOR67|<span style="color: #4cbb17">Warrior</span>]]<span style="color: #000080">6</span><span style="color: #4cbb17">7</span> 16:23, 7 May 2015 (UTC) | |||
== Trivia == | |||
While it's true that all champions are met by the player before the Pokemon League challenge. Isn't it a moot point that Blue isn't a Champion until then?--[[User:Benayla|Benayla]] ([[User talk:Benayla|talk]]) 17:34, 23 August 2015 (UTC) | |||
== Name + opening line == | |||
How come the page's name is "Pokémon Champion" but the opening line talks about the "Pokémon League Champion" and say that it's often shortened to "Pokémon Champion"? It doesn't seem to make sense that the page's name is the shortened one, does it? [[User:MannedTooth|<span style="color:#FF8000"> MannedTooth </span>]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 05:53, 8 December 2016 (UTC) | |||
:Pokémon League Champion is what it's officially called, but people are more likely to search for Pokémon Champion instead.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#F1912B">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#F6B775">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#5599CA">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#90BDDC">ire</span>]] 06:00, 8 December 2016 (UTC) | |||
::Why not just move it to Champion, then? That's also listed as a common shortening, and it seems to me like that would be even more likely for people to search. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 06:02, 8 December 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::Well, there is a redirect for the word Champion. I never quite understood why we don't use the official name but rather the commonly known name if redirects exist, take for example [[Professor Oak]], instead of being called "Samuel.........Oak", the page's name is Professor Oak, why not use the official and let redirects do their job ? :o [[User:MannedTooth|<span style="color:#FF8000"> MannedTooth </span>]] ([[User_Talk:MannedTooth|Talk]]) 06:20, 8 December 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::Champion might be too broad of a title. [[Master]] is a disambiguation page, rather than have Pokémon Master being just Master, so it's probably the same case here.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#F1912B">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#F6B775">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#5599CA">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#90BDDC">ire</span>]] 06:33, 8 December 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::::At risk of bringing up a dead conversation (talk page necromancy!), I think it seems reasonable to move to "Pokémon League Champion" with redirects from "Pokémon Champion" and "Champion". The latter may be a disambiguation, though, since as you mentioned it's a rather broad term. --[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 01:17, 25 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
::::::I think it shouldn't be moved there. I guess it makes sense to have articles at what they're commonly referred to, even if it's not the most official title. (For example, I vastly favor "''Prince William, Duke of Cambridge''" over "''William Arthur Philip Louis, Duke of Cambridge, Earl of Strathearn, and Baron Carrickfergus''".) However, I think "Champion" might be the most appropriate title (it's the Trainer class), and in contast to "Master", I can see no issues that would arise. (But it's also fine where it is now, I don't care too much.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 14:03, 26 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
== Hoenn Elite 4 == | |||
In [[PS251]], the Elite Four are said to be the winners of past tournaments, meaning they were Champions. When Wallace wins the tournament, Steven, a confirmed champion, was going to be moved to the Elite Four. [[User:Iml908|Iml908]] ([[User talk:Iml908|talk]]) 17:56, 24 December 2016 (UTC) | |||
In round 251, it also said the front rank of several from previous tournaments are selected as the elite 4 (Japanese 上位入賞者). So they are also probably a second place, third place, etc. [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 16:35, 25 December 2016 (UTC) | |||
== Alola Champion == | |||
Why is Prof. Kukui is not inserted as the Champion of Alola League? [[User:Rockapheller|Rockapheller]] ([[User talk:Rockapheller|talk]]) 22:38, 25 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
:Because he's not the champion; he just organized the Pokémon League and made himself the final challenger for the first champion (you). —[[User:Minimiscience|Minimiscience]] ([[User talk:Minimiscience|talk]]) 22:50, 24 January 2017 (UTC) | |||