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Talk:List of Pokémon by availability: Difference between revisions
Talk:List of Pokémon by availability (view source)
Revision as of 16:38, 17 September 2023
, 17 September 2023→It's time to split this up
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:::Don't forget to roundy it too. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 04:44, 11 November 2012 (UTC) | :::Don't forget to roundy it too. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 04:44, 11 November 2012 (UTC) | ||
::::It's bad idea to replace Snagging with C, as C is used for Poké Spot Pokémon. Also deleted Pal Park, as nothing uses it (and aside from event Pokémon, the only that could use that are Regis). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 15:10, 11 November 2012 (UTC) | ::::It's bad idea to replace Snagging with C, as C is used for Poké Spot Pokémon. Also deleted Pal Park, as nothing uses it (and aside from event Pokémon, the only that could use that are Regis). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 15:10, 11 November 2012 (UTC) | ||
:::::Okay well I tidied up, fixed a few errors and added Pokéwalker info. I might start on the Dream World column soon since in places such as [[ | :::::Okay well I tidied up, fixed a few errors and added Pokéwalker info. I might start on the Dream World column soon since in places such as [[List of event Pokémon with in-game effects|here]] it has it's own box with a pink styling, so a column to match that will do. [[User:EV Love|EV Love]] ([[User talk:EV Love|talk]]) 04:29, 12 November 2012 (UTC) | ||
::::::Need help with that? I could add it for you. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 04:45, 12 November 2012 (UTC) | ::::::Need help with that? I could add it for you. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 04:45, 12 November 2012 (UTC) | ||
:::::::Yeah go ahead, remember to change the Avail template for each gen. [[User:EV Love|EV Love]] ([[User talk:EV Love|talk]]) 18:27, 12 November 2012 (UTC) | :::::::Yeah go ahead, remember to change the Avail template for each gen. [[User:EV Love|EV Love]] ([[User talk:EV Love|talk]]) 18:27, 12 November 2012 (UTC) | ||
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:* And so on. | :* And so on. | ||
: --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 13:24, 12 December 2020 (UTC) | : --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 13:24, 12 December 2020 (UTC) | ||
::I'm working on it but I struggle to harmonize the columns' widths: [[User:Kristak/Sandbox/List of Pokémon by availability (Mystery Dungeon)]]. Does anyone know why it happens?[[User:Kristak|Kristak]] ([[User talk:Kristak|talk]]) 16:02, 24 February 2022 (UTC) | |||
== Dream World == | == Dream World == | ||
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:Yes, I agree. In my opinion, the Dream World should be removed from this list as you said. But let's also make sure some other page lists the Pokémon that were once available in the Dream World anyway (for historical value if nothing else, even if they are unavailable now). --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 14:09, 12 December 2020 (UTC) | :Yes, I agree. In my opinion, the Dream World should be removed from this list as you said. But let's also make sure some other page lists the Pokémon that were once available in the Dream World anyway (for historical value if nothing else, even if they are unavailable now). --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 14:09, 12 December 2020 (UTC) | ||
:Personally I believe that the Dream World should instead be included in the BW/B2W2 columns in a similar way to how the Friend Safari is included in the XY columns, since that doesn't remove it entirely from the list but still removes the extra column, and only shows a Pokémon as having to come from the Dream World if that was the only way to obtain one in Gen 5 without transferring up from previous generations. [[User:Gameskiller01|Gameskiller01]] ([[User talk:Gameskiller01|talk]]) 14:21, 12 December 2020 (UTC) | :Personally I believe that the Dream World should instead be included in the BW/B2W2 columns in a similar way to how the Friend Safari is included in the XY columns, since that doesn't remove it entirely from the list but still removes the extra column, and only shows a Pokémon as having to come from the Dream World if that was the only way to obtain one in Gen 5 without transferring up from previous generations. [[User:Gameskiller01|Gameskiller01]] ([[User talk:Gameskiller01|talk]]) 14:21, 12 December 2020 (UTC) | ||
::Would this be above event in priority or only above trading/transfer? [[User:Eridanus|Eridanus]] ([[User talk:Eridanus|talk]]) 22:11, 12 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:::I would say that it should have a higher priority than events, since at least Dream World Pokémon were universally available for the time that it was up while events weren't, and neither are available anymore. [[User:Gameskiller01|Gameskiller01]] ([[User talk:Gameskiller01|talk]]) 22:25, 12 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
::::Either that, or honestly I wouldn't mind having it as is, and just mentioning at the beginning of the section that PW is now defunct. If the glaring color is what is bothering you (as that usually indicates "can get this right now", we could just make it light-colored or striped via the template!? [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 13:09, 13 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
== PokéWalker == | |||
Could it be a good idea to merge the PokéWalker column with the HGSS columns, similar to how the Dream World column was merged with the BWB2W2 columns and the Friend Safari column was merged with the XY columns previously? With the recent addition of the BDSP columns, and potential future addition of a Legends Arceus column, I believe that some of the tables are getting a bit too big, especially for Gen 1.<br>I think it would be for the best if the amount of columns was minimised, which would involve creating a separate Key entry for the PokéWalker and removing that column from the table and merging the information with the HGSS columns instead, much like how the Friend Safari and Dream World were merged into their respective columns in the past. Plus, with the existence of a separate "[[List of Pokémon found through the Pokéwalker]]" page, I don't think it's necessary to duplicate all of that information on this page. Thoughts? [[User:Gameskiller01|Gameskiller01]] ([[User talk:Gameskiller01|talk]]) 14:48, 29 June 2021 (UTC) | |||
:I agree that we should merge the Pokéwalker column with the HGSS one by putting priority over the main games over the Pokéwalker for Pokémons that can be found in both HGSS and the Pokéwalker like Woobuffet which can be found in the Dark Cave and the Noisy Forest. [[User:Kristak|Kristak]] ([[User talk:Kristak|talk]]) 15:42, 29 June 2021 (UTC) | |||
== Sinnoh Trophy Garden: S instead of C? == | |||
For Pokémon that can only be caught by using the "special" slot of the Trophy Garden, like Meowth and Porygon, the mechanics of that location are remarkably similar to swarms. Since S is presumably separate from C to convey a specific message--"This Pokémon is not reliably available to catch all the time, but rather only if you get lucky and have it chosen as the one possibility that's active for the day"--is there any reason that same philosophy can't apply to Trophy Garden? [[User:SadisticMystic|SadisticMystic]] ([[User talk:SadisticMystic|talk]]) 22:14, 13 October 2021 (UTC) | |||
:Sounds pretty reasonable to me, yes. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 10:10, 16 October 2021 (UTC) | |||
== It's time to split this up == | |||
I know this article is far from largest on the site, but for this type of the data and the way it's presented, it has gotten to the point that we need to split it up. This layout would be fine for Google Sheets or something, but not as a series of hardcoded tables. I honestly feel the only way to split it up would be by generation column-wise (so RBY gets its own article, GSC its own, etc). I can’t even view all of gen I on my computer screen anymore without having to scroll or zoom, and it’s going to get worse with every new game if we stay with this format. | |||
Nowadays with more people using this site on mobile, having each table be only 3-7 columns wide would fit perfectly on screens. Trying to see if an early gen Pokémon is in a later gen game is currently a nightmare, and most people only need to look at the generation of games they’re playing anyway. If they really need multiple gens side by side, they can easily paste the table into Sheets/Excel/etc. I’ve been making occasional edits to this page since gen IV and even back then it was a pain in the butt to tell which row or column you’re reading or changing, but now it seems even messier with all the regional variants added (with more on the way in Legends Arceus). | |||
So by splitting the article "vertically", we can eliminate all the blank space from the earlier game tables for regional forms or anything else added in a later gen. We can also simplify the symbols by giving each page its own key since we have so many symbols we need to use to distinguish ways of obtaining Pokémon in different gens. Columns removed long ago due to space concerns could be reinstated, such as the Pokéwalker in gen IV and Dream World in gen V (even though it’s retired, it’d still have some historical value). We could even add an event column to each article for distributions that occurred during those gens, but I digress. The articles should still have a different table for each generation of Pokémon (for situations like gen VII not needing a Let’s Go column for everyone), and the huge “Availability by generation” section could be separated into each article. Lastly, we could add sorting functionality to each table which would be very convenient. | |||
I know this was previously discussed and we were considering splitting it up horizontally (meaning split by generations of Pokémon instead of games), but this wouldn’t solve the readability issues and probably be even more of a pain to someone wanting to see everything available in the game they’re playing. Even though it’s not the largest article, it still seems to take as long to load, if not longer than the largest articles on the site possibly due to all the formatting. In general, I feel like this overhaul would solve more problems than it could cause. Anyone agree? [[User:EV Love|EV Love]] ([[User talk:EV Love|talk]]) 17:37, 8 January 2022 (UTC) | |||
:I'm torn on this. On one hand, I quite often look at a Pokémon's availablity across the entire series, as I like to find the earliest game where a Pokémon can be found in "mint condition" so to speak (as in, not having to evolve in order to obtain it). On the other, I recognise that that's probably a very niche use-case, and that the page being very difficult to read on mobile is probably a more pressing issue. I have also found that it can be extremely difficult to edit as it's very hard to tell which column you're actually editing. But back on the other hand again, having all of the information available in 1 single place is far more convinient than having it split across 8+ different articles. I will say that if the page is to be split, I definitely agree that it should be split vertically. Splitting it horizontally would've made it a massive pain to find which Pokémon are available in each game, as you mention, but splitting it vertically at least allows people to see all of the Pokémon available in a certain game on 1 page. [[User:Gameskiller01|Gameskiller01]] ([[User talk:Gameskiller01|talk]]) 17:59, 8 January 2022 (UTC) | |||
::That’s a good point as I myself am very into checking data like that (especially for legality purposes), but I feel like the game locations section on each individual Pokémon’s article usually suffices for situations when looking across all generations is necessary. I've also noticed that a number of other lists on the site are split by generation (such as the Pokémon index numbers, and those could easily fit into one page of tables without being overwhelmingly large). I know the article doesn’t seem too intimidating to those of us who are familiar with it or have worked on it, but I can’t say the same for casual players. I remember when my friend was playing through Let’s Go rand asked me if there’s a list somewhere of Pokémon who can only be obtained through evolving. I sent him this page and he responded “I’m not even going to try reading that”. I don’t mean to criticize anyone who has worked on this article as the data integrity is very good and accurate, it just needs to be presented better. I initially thought of grouping together gens that had a significant level of interfacing into one page (such as gens 1 & 2 or 3 & 4) but this gets subjective and the lines are blurry. So for consistency with other lists on the site I think it’d be best to just have 8 pages. I would definitely be willing to help out on the editing necessary as well. [[User:EV Love|EV Love]] ([[User talk:EV Love|talk]]) 06:42, 9 January 2022 (UTC) | |||
:With the death of the 3DS eShop pretty much cutting off the older games from HOME for most new players, I think it should be split into two pages. The main page should have only the games that are compatible with HOME, so LGPE onward, and there should be a separate "pre-HOME" page that has everything up to USUM and maybe the Pokéwalker/Dream World columns. If emulated versions of some of the old games come to Switch they would be on both pages. If the Switch eShop sticks around, the table will probably get just as big in 10-20 years but people will still be picking up SwSh and transferring Pokémon from the latest game into them. [[User:Pikcahu|Pikcahu]] ([[User talk:Pikcahu|talk]]) 16:37, 17 September 2023 (UTC) | |||
== Space-time Distortions == | |||
For [[Pokémon Legends: Arceus]], should there be a separate symbol for Pokémon that can only be caught in space-time distortions? -[[User:Ratboy Jr.|Ratboy Jr.]] ([[User talk:Ratboy Jr.|talk]]) 19:46, 30 January 2022 (UTC) | |||
== Changing "D" for dual-slot to the more all-encompasing "CC" instead == | |||
I think it makes more sense, pretty much every other way that Pokémon can be caught after communicating with another game is already under CC, I don't think dual-slot mons need their own denomination. Plus, since D is already used as a suffix to indicte Pokémon caught through DLC I think it could get a bit confusing. [[User:Gameskiller01|Gameskiller01]] ([[User talk:Gameskiller01|talk]]) 17:01, 3 December 2022 (UTC) | |||