Talk:Toxicroak (Pokémon)

Why aren't the different sprites of Toxicroak seen in the page? Shouldn't it be there? File:Ani448MS.gifJmathFile:Ani447MS.gifTalkFile:Ani448MS.gif 13:01, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I think we didn't upload them yet (don't ask me to!) Optimatum^Talk|♊13:02 7 Mar 2008

I saw one of the sprites on Saturn's page. File:Ani448MS.gifJmathFile:Ani447MS.gifTalkFile:Ani448MS.gif 13:08, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

That was the basic shiny sprite...not the ones that added the 'm' and 'f'...Optimatum^Talk|♊13:15 7 Mar 2008

But don't we add the shiny sprites to the article as well? File:Ani448MS.gifJmathFile:Ani447MS.gifTalkFile:Ani448MS.gif 13:18, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Is Saturn's shiny or not I mean it looks shiny but ppl say it isn't and I'm confused! User:Crystallucario/Sig 13:32, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

The shiny color seems right but...Optimatum^Talk|♊13:33 7 Mar 2008

• I know but everyone says it isn't!

User:Crystallucario/Sig 13:35, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Wait, I'll settle the sprite prob first...

Template:Png and Template:Png or Template:Png. See? Optimatum^Talk|♊13:37 7 Mar 2008

Does the Pokédex [entry] look absolutely exactly like the Toxicroak? Strange.. my Pokédex, despite a shiny Flygon being the first Flygon I had, it doesn't list it as shiny. I know about the anime =/= games thing, but STILL! Also, look at Croagunk, and compare it to the regular sprite. Orange and blue. Typical. Now compare Toxicroak to the POKÉDEX image and the sprite. Damn different. Tina ^δ♫ 16:14, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Please, stop this bullshit. Ash scanned the toxicroak and the image of the pokedex showed the blure-greenish colour. The pokedex always shows the regular pokemon ( when the shiny noctowl was scanned back in jotho, a brown noctowl was displayed at the pokedex). So the "shiny" colour is the normal anime colour. Live with it. All the toys of toxicroak look like the anime version: do you really think they would sell only the shiny version of the pokemon? I will edit the toxicroak article every time until you come to your senses... DocDoak. 18:40, 7 March 2008

Someone needs to interview an Art Director, or we need to see Croagunk evolving to be absolutely sure. --Dman dustin 18:05, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Ash scanned a shiny noctowl and the pokedex showed him a normal noctowl. Ash scans this toxicroak and the pokedex showed him..guess what? THIS toxicroak. it is a normal one. We don´t need an interview or something like that. http://serebiiforums.com/showpost.php?p=7636013&postcount=25 <- look at all of the toys. btw, the toys are much older than this weeks episode, so , no, it isn´t a toy-line for the episode. Toxicroak is not the first pokemon which looks different in the first games it was released in than the other medias. think about bellosom or ariados... DocDoak, 18:12, 7 March 2008

People, people, please. Whomsover has seen the anime episode can end this war by ansering this question.

• When Toxicrak was released from it's Poké Ball, did stars appear like they did with Noctowl?
  • If yes, Toxicroak is shiny.
  • If no, Toxicroak is not shiny.

Can't get simpler than that. Personally I blame GameFreak for not being creative with their shiny colours (tch, light blue!). (P.S. I haven't seen the episode so I can't answer the question.) TESHIGIGAS ⁴⁸⁶ 18:14, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I saw the episode and their wasn´t a sparkle. there was a effect which some people might think is the shiny effect, but it was just for show of and was shown like this several time before that on non-shiny pokemon. My Pokédex argument still stands. DocDoak, 18:19 7 March, 2008

All right, this debate on whether that Toxicroak is shiny or not is really getting out of hand. If the Toxicroak was really shiny, wouldn't someone mention something about it being shiny (I'm talking about in the show). But no one said anything about it. It was like with anything else. They see a Pokémon, scan it and the episode goes on. I am not saying the Toxicroak is not shiny but wouldn't it be better to wait for another Toxicroak to appear and note whether they have same color or not. If they do, it's definitely not shiny but if the other one is blue instead, we can agree this one is shiny. File:Ani448MS.gifJmathFile:Ani447MS.gifTalkFile:Ani448MS.gif 18:36, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree. That is the reason why I edited "speculated to be shiny" in the article inthe last few days, but for some reason, people edited it away. I still think that the toys, the episode and the pokedex pretty much confirm that it isn´t shiny,but I can agree on a "unsure if shiny or not"-compromise. DocDoak, 18:29, 7 March 2008

If an admin leaves it shiny for now, then leave it. TESHIGIGAS ⁴⁸⁶ 18:45, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I will, WHEN an admin will do it. And , seriously, why can´t you answer on my points about it being not a shiny pokemon? Just stopping the discussion won´t get you any further.. DocDoak, 19:33

Quoting TTEchidna's summary for the recent edit on Alternate coloration: It's shiny until we see seventy Toxicroak together with the color, since the shiny sprite is the exact color. This indicates that we already have a sysop view of this whole situation, which means anyone who says it's not alternate-color is disagreeing with a sysop.

Even a sysop can be wrong, though (where TTE expects 70 bloody Toxicroak to come from, I don't know). I thought this site was supposed to stay neutral? Otherwise this site could end up with egg on it's face if and when Brock's Croagunk evolves. - Cassius335 14:11, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

As for my 2¢: The Toxicroak in question is to be considered an alternate-color unless significant evidence within the anime exists otherwise. Besides, if the anime WERE to be considering that Toxicroak normal-color, odds are it would consider Brock's Croagunk to be an alternate-color (since Croagunk's color scheme does not change when it evolves), which would set a backwards standard for the evolution line.

As for the effect listed, remember that different generations have different versions of the alternate coloration's effect in the games. Ash's Noctowl was caught in Generation II and hasn't been used since then. DP069 is a Generation IV episode, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the effect would change if Ash brought Noctowl back onto the team, probably to the one seen on this Toxicroak. Besides, if people are using the Poké Ball effects as evidence, then we'd have to say that the purple Shuckle in EP170, the gold Magikarp in AG092, the brown Donphan in AG114, and especially Lance's Gyarados are also not of the alternate-colored variety.

Keep in mind that the anime also has colors not found in the games--note the Pink Butterfree, a purple Kecleon in EP205, a blue Breloom in AG151, and a light-blue Marill also in AG151 don't have the standard normal or alternate-color color schemes from the games.

At this point, I think we should do more research on that green-eyed Jigglypuff in AG138...--Shiningpikablu252 22:52, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I've seen the sticker with anime's version of Toxicroak certain time ago and it was colored just like in this episode. This means it's just anime coloration and Toxicroak wasn't shiny. --Maxim 19:58, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree. I don't think it was shiny as much as I think it's the anime's way of coloring it. I mean look at Ash's Gligar. It's pink for crying out loud. --File:Ani048MS.gifケンジFile:Ani183MS.gifガールFile:Ani123MS.gif 03:43, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes but the difference is that Gligar's Shiny form is Blue not pink --Dman dustin 04:38, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes but that's not the pointPokeManiac102 04:41, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Then the point of bringing up Gligar? --Dman dustin 05:30, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I'd say take this as you will. I for one believe the Toxicroak in question is shiny because the 'light' it comes from promptly turns into smaller star shaped lights before disappearing...--Tsum [1]

To Dman dustin, I brought up Gligar as an example of how the anime changes the color of Pokémon. Besides, Toxicroak in the anime had differences from the shiny form. It has a much more tourquoise tone and the sack under its chin was red, not pink. It also did not sparkle when it emerged from its Poké Ball. It's just an anime recolor that just happened to look like the shiny form. --File:Ani048MS.gifケンジFile:Ani183MS.gifガールFile:Ani123MS.gif 05:48, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

The bright part (not covered in shadows, but not the brightest part) is actually dark pink http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink as shown in that link. When something is covered in darkness it's color is often indistinguishable, like dark blue and people confuse it with black. Judge the color that's not covered in shadows, as that gives the best detail And it was dark the whole time Toxicroak was out so it's colors seem darker. But I bet when the sun is out. Toxicroak would look like its shiny form 100%. Whether that's to say it is a shiny in regards to the anime is still up for debate. And I also realize the point in bringing up Gligar, but again, its not the same case with Toxicroak, which is why I said Gligar's shiny form is blue. --Dman dustin 06:20, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

All right, I said this before and I will say it again. Don't you think if it was shiny, someone would mention it. But no one said anything about it, not a damn thing. They just treated it as another new Pokémon that they see. Also the anime doesn't always follow the games exactly in every detail. File:Ani448MS.gifJmathFile:Ani447MS.gifTalkFile:Ani448MS.gif 08:09, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

In other words: SAY IT IS SPECULATED TO BE SHINY!!! IT MAY OR MAY NOT BE SHINY U ASSES!!! Optimatum^Talk|♊11:51 8 Mar 2008

Protection request...

Anyone with the abilities to protect this page, should probably do so. I think this edit war is getting out of hand, but I'm gonna try and avoid this debate as much as possible >_> Tina ^δ♫ 19:39, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I don´t see the problem with a debate. instead of closing the page from edits, why not try to argue for it? why is it allowed that the DP068 page can say it is shiny, and a "speculated to be shiny" entry ( which is more true) will be edited? that´s a doubel standart. Why can´t we say that it is unsure? DocDoak, 19:45, 7 March 2008

Way too much protection on Bulbapedia, methinks. GlinnFile:Ani202MS.gif 04:32, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Ya got that right Glinn. Btw, TOXICROAK AIN'T SHINY. WATCH THE EPISODE AND LOOKPokeManiac102 04:35, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm always right. :P

Amazing, you managed to turn this section into part of the debate as well! Oh well. No matter. GlinnFile:Ani202MS.gif 06:47, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Blah...PokeManiac102 13:49, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Well I'm asking Sketchies right now if he can protect it.....hopefully he responds...User:Theryguy512/Sig 13:51, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Wait! I think that we should block the user for a couple of days insteadPokeManiac102 13:54, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

FOR THE SAKE OF THE ARTICLE IT AIN'T SHINY!!! JUST USE CASSIUS'S NEUTRAL POINT OF VIEWPokeManiac102 14:09, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Guys, just look at them:

Template:Png ------------------- File:Toxi.JPG and then look at the regular one: File:Dokurog.png

IT IS SHINY!!! User:Theryguy512/Sig 14:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Have you ever heard of brightened coloring?PokeManiac102 14:37, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Yup it's not shinyPokeManiac102 14:39, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Dude, It toally IS shiny! Why else would Toxicroak be a different color than Brock's Croagunk???:

File:CroagunkToxicroak.JPG That's solid proof that it's shiny. User:Theryguy512/Sig 14:45, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

No, that's solid proof that it looks shinyPokeManiac102 14:46, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

.....A.K.A. IT IS shiny. User:Theryguy512/Sig 14:50, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Well they didn't brighten up gliscor in the anime while gligar is so that can't really be proof-User:Darkmaster0/signature14:50, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

It's okay, the eyes can easily deceive. Just go to the eye doctorPokeManiac102 14:52, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

How can you say it's not proof???? It has all the aspects of a shiny one, and none of a regular Toxicroak! User:Theryguy512/Sig 14:54, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

No, it's darker than a shinyPokeManiac102 14:55, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

No it's not. And if it is, it's not by much. It's a lot different than the normal one! User:Theryguy512/Sig 15:00, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

What is your definition on normal?PokeManiac102 15:01, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

The normal one has blue skin, red middle toe and finger, and red mustache looking thing and air sac. The shiny one has aqua skin, pink middle toe and finger, and pink mustache looking thing an air sac. User:Theryguy512/Sig 15:08, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Watch the episode again. Look at the picture in the Pokédex. Then watch the episode with the Shiny Noctowl. Look at the image of the dex. It doesn't show shiniesPokeManiac102 15:09, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I never watched the episode. But are you now saying that Ash's Noctowl isn't shiny too? They both are!User:Theryguy512/Sig 15:11, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

WILL YOU FREAKIN PAY ATTENTION! Let's say that Ash sees a shiny Magnezone. If he were to point his Pokédex at it, the image of the Magnezone on the Pokédex won't be shiny.PokeManiac102 15:16, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I know that, and Toxicroak wasn't shiny on the dex. But what does that proof??? User:Theryguy512/Sig 15:18, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

<_<' we will all know when Brock's Croagunk evolves... you know that right? User:Crystallucario/Sig 15:19, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

If you take the picture on the dex, and you take the picture of the toxicroak, and you put it on paint, they will be the same color. Therefore the Toxicroak is not shinyPokeManiac102 15:19, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

It is shiny and Brock's will prove it...User:Crystallucario/Sig 15:22, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Well did you ever think that the colors just made an error and put it shiny on the dex??? User:Theryguy512/Sig 15:23, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

What happens if it doesn't evolve?PokeManiac102 15:24, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

What if it does.User:Crystallucario/Sig 15:27, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I asked you firstPokeManiac102 15:28, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Touchē User:Crystallucario/Sig 15:30, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

TouchéPokeManiac102 15:31, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

If it doesn't evolve one should appear sometimeUser:Crystallucario/Sig 15:33, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

And how would you know that?PokeManiac102 15:34, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Most Pokémon appear in the Anime. (Exept the Porygons)User:Crystallucario/Sig 15:37, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes and Toxicroak already appeared, in that episode!PokeManiac102 15:39, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I mean a diffrent one!User:Crystallucario/Sig 15:41, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

UnlikelyPokeManiac102 15:44, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Likely enough.User:Crystallucario/Sig 15:46, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

That's your opinion. But it does seem unlikely, not my opinionPokeManiac102 15:47, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

At this point I say we protect that page until another Toxicroak appears. G2G. User:Crystallucario/Sig 15:50, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

What happens if one doesn't?PokeManiac102 15:56, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

As far as we know, the Pokédex showing the debated colors of Toxicroak is not surefire proof that the anime considers that the standard coloration of Toxicroak. For all we know, the model 7 Pokédex (the one Ash and Dawn use now) has pictures of multiple color variations for each Pokémon programmed into it. Given that its game counterpart can display multiple variations, it's distinctly possible that the anime Pokédex can also display multiple variations. It probably detected the alternate color and showed that instead of the normal. Pokédex technology has very likely progressed with each model--recall that model 2 (the one Ash used between EP050 and EP116) displayed Vileplume's normal petal pattern even when a Vileplume was shown with a different one.

Besides, since it's a known fact that Croagunk doesn't change its colors when it evolves, it's pretty much certain that the anime considers either Saturn's Toxicroak or Brock's Croagunk to be alternate coloration. And I'm certain fans would revolt if it's revealed the former is considered the normal color...--Shiningpikablu252 17:28, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Probably, or it could just be the anime coloring. Then again, it probably is an alternate colorPokeManiac102 17:46, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Why can't we say that it is speculated to be shiny rather than saying for sure it's shiny or not? What if one of them turns out to be wrong? File:Ani448MS.gifJmathFile:Ani447MS.gifTalkFile:Ani448MS.gif 18:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Exactly, that's what I want. But Theryguy512 keeps insisting that it is a shinyPokeManiac102 18:37, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

And there are countless others that insist it's not alternate-color. And apparently both sides have been rejecting this middle ground, with most of those insisting it's not being rookies. --Shiningpikablu252 18:41, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

SurePokeManiac102 18:42, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Here is my opinion. In DP069, a Toxicroak speculated to be shiny appears. or possibly A Toxicroak speculated to be shiny appears in DP069. That sound good? Tina ^δ♫ 20:33, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I find it funny that people assume Saturn's Toxicroak is just a brightened version of it's game coloring when in fact it isn't. Had Toxicroak been Sky Blue (like the TCG Toxicroak) we wouldn't be debating this. The only way Toxicroak could look like the one shown in anime is to add another color and I mean green/yellow. Sky blue would just be a different tint of Toxicroak's normal coloring. -sigh- Sometimes I wish Toxicroak had been all red, or black in the anime. And for know I like what it says on the Toxicroak page (assuming no one edits it while I'm writing this). And I hope it stays until we have absolutely know what Saturn's Toxicroak is in relation to the anime (shiny or normal coloration). --Dman dustin 01:47, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Does everyone remember Purple Kecleon? :) GlinnFile:Ani202MS.gif 03:14, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Aug. Don't even start. It is the same color as the shiny sprite so it speculated to be shiny. User:Crystallucario/Sig 11:50, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

As far as we know, the Pokédex showing the debated colors of Toxicroak is not surefire proof that the anime considers that the standard coloration of Toxicroak. For all we know, the model 7 Pokédex (the one Ash and Dawn use now) has pictures of multiple color variations for each Pokémon programmed into it. Given that its game counterpart can display multiple variations, it's distinctly possible that the anime Pokédex can also display multiple variations. It probably detected the alternate color and showed that instead of the normal. Pokédex technology has very likely progressed with each model--recall that model 2 (the one Ash used between EP050 and EP116) displayed Vileplume's normal petal pattern even when a Vileplume was shown with a different one.

Besides, since it's a known fact that Croagunk doesn't change its colors when it evolves, it's pretty much certain that the anime considers either Saturn's Toxicroak or Brock's Croagunk to be alternate coloration. And I'm certain fans would revolt if it's revealed the former is considered the normal color...--Shiningpikablu252 17:28, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Shining, you're basically using speculation as evidence. Since there's no canon tec-specs on the "Model 7" available, there's no proof that it shows Shiny Pokemon pictures for Pokemon. Possible, sure. Proven? No. For all we know, the setup remains the same as the model 2 and shows the normal colouration as the default. Could go either way, frankly, but there's no proof.

And you really should avoid using the phrase "since it's a known fact", since the possibility exists that when Brock's Crogunk evolves, it'll have the same colouration as Saturn's Toxicroak, which (since, so we've been told, a non-shiny will remain a non-shiny) should settle this little row once and for all.

To everyone who still thinks that Toxicroak is Shiny, I'm going to invoke Gravy's argument: why does every piece of merchandise use Toxicroak's in-game shiny colours and not the in-game normal coloration?

And again, I'd like to remind everyone of this: "Toxicroak is Shiny" is not a neutral viewpoint. "Toxicroak is not Shiny" is not a neutral viewpoint. This site is supposed to adhere a neutral viewpoint.

Rant over. - Cassius335 14:42, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

I rewatched "Fowl Play" the episode Ash's Noctowl is debuted and captured. And you'll be interested to know Ash never scans his shiny Nowctowl. He scans a normal colored noctowl but that's it.--Dman dustin 07:28, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Maybe this is just a miscolouration. Salamence was the wrong colour in Gen 3, but is the right colour in DP and in the anime. User:Porygon-Z/Sig 10:42, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

CUT IT OUT!

WE SAY IT IS SPECULATED TO BE SHINY AND THAT'S FINAL! -grrr- Optimatum^Talk|♊07:44 12 Mar 2008

No-one had said anything for 3 days... The article is fine how it is. GlinnFile:Ani202MS.gif 09:54, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Good, and let's keep it that way. Optimatum^Talk|♊10:19 12 Mar 2008