Talk:Base stats: Difference between revisions

::By this point, the XY pre-release discussion which sparked the whole situation is temporally closer to the English release of Ruby/Sapphire than it is to today, and yet the community is no closer to adopting these terms. If anything, "effort values" has become ''more'' entrenched over the past decade. Because of just how contentious these page moves will be, community input is a must, and it's very possible these will be moved later on the agenda while the easier stuff (such as the already-moved Starter Pokémon ➜ First partner Pokémon) gets done first. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 00:53, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

:::crossposting from my post on the effort values talk page, but there is too much focus on "technicality" for an internal term, as even mentioned in this thread. This is a case of where common usage should trump "official" usage. "This is supposed to be a resource that helps people understand these mechanics, not further alienate them from the concept. The majority of players who actively play by large still use the term "Effort Values" and do not use "Species Strength" for "Base Stats". This is something ingrained over at least 20 years of competitive play at this point and to try to force a change because its "technically" right is just gross wiki culture at work. These are not terms used in game nor understood by the players at large. A change like this will negatively impact competitive communities which are the primary users of such terms when trying to communicate with new players. This is at the end of the day a *fan* site and thus you do NOT need to adhere to some sort of strict rules to match exact terminology and should in fact actually focus on accessibility for the target audience. A wiki page should accurately reflect a term's usage. Language is defined by its users, not by an arbitrary group of people. This is similar in vein that you cannot redefine what a term's name is just because a translator decided to make something previously unnamed into something the community does not use. Top VGC players such as Wolfey even use these terms when creating content about these games - these are widely recognized as official terms for the community. If you want to show that it's been named "Base Stats" elsewhere, sure, but do not try to force confusion on the playerbase with this change without due community input." Fans create terms all the time for mechanics that are not named in games, and those should trump arbitrarily created names from creators that refuse to listen to their fanbase with regards to these mechanics. [[User:DkKoba|DkKoba]] ([[User talk:DkKoba|talk]]) 05:14, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

::::'''Strong oppose''' for the reasons above. Players both casual and competitive have been referring to these as [[Effort values]], [[Base stats]], etc.: no one uses the "official" names for any of these. These names are very seldomly mentioned in official media and most readers probably don't even know official names for these even exist. Abritarily forcing the wiki to use only official names is going to have no benifit and instead cause confusion for readers who have been using these unofficial terms for decades. Yes, official names should be the priority for most stuff, but not for ''everything'': using unofficial names for things like internal mechanics is different from using fan names for characters or Pokemon. Moving EVs to Base points is especially going to be contentious because it overlapps with what fans know base stats as: people searching for base stats are ''not'' looking for EVs, they're looking for what ''they'' know as base stats. Why make things confusing for readers over an arbitrary decision TPC made? Even if official names are going to be pushed elsewhere on the site, this should be an exception at the very least.  '''''[[User:Supatoad64|<span style="color:crimson">Ultimate</span>]] [[User talk:Supatoad64|<span style="color:deepskyblue">Toad</span>]]''''' 18:46, 27 March 2024 (UTC)