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::::::::::Figures. I'm just a guy who hates incompleteness, so these lingering cases of incompleteness tend to bug me a lot. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 12:17, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::Figures. I'm just a guy who hates incompleteness, so these lingering cases of incompleteness tend to bug me a lot. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 12:17, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::For a while now already, I've been planning a massive edit project, where I go over '''every single''' page with a Stadium and Stadium 2 party template, and change the number of Poké Balls in the template(s) to 3 instead of 6 (since only three of the six Pokémon are always used per battle), as well as remove the word "Pokémon" from the game name, as it isn't that way in any other game party templates either. But that's why I've come here for you this time: in preparation for this project, could you edit {{template|Party/Single}} to include codes for Stadium and Stadium 2 in the game name section? And while we're on the topic of this template, do the Battle Chatelaines alone warrant a combined code for X, Y, OR, and AS, and the few version-exclusive Battle Tree Trainers from Generation VII codes for S/US and M/UM, respectively? PS. I hope you understood that last part. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 17:51, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::For a while now already, I've been planning a massive edit project, where I go over '''every single''' page with a Stadium and Stadium 2 party template, and change the number of Poké Balls in the template(s) to 3 instead of 6 (since only three of the six Pokémon are always used per battle), as well as remove the word "Pokémon" from the game name, as it isn't that way in any other game party templates either. But that's why I've come here for you this time: in preparation for this project, could you edit {{template|Party/Single}} to include codes for Stadium and Stadium 2 in the game name section? And while we're on the topic of this template, do the Battle Chatelaines alone warrant a combined code for X, Y, OR, and AS, and the few version-exclusive Battle Tree Trainers from Generation VII codes for S/US and M/UM, respectively? PS. I hope you understood that last part. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 17:51, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::Thanks. I saw you just doing this, and I'm honestly really grateful for it, but in case you didn't know, when we refer to "Pokémon Stadium", the link should go to "[[Pokémon Stadium (English)]]", instead of just "[[Pokémon Stadium]]". --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 07:37, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::Thanks. I saw you just doing this, and I'm honestly really grateful for it, but in case you didn't know, when we refer to "Pokémon Stadium", the link should go to "[[Pokémon Stadium|Pokémon Stadium (English)]]", instead of just "[[Pokémon Stadium]]". --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 07:37, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::Never mind. You noticed that yourself. Sorry. XP --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 07:38, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::Never mind. You noticed that yourself. Sorry. XP --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 07:38, 5 September 2018 (UTC)


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::::::I think we need a link template to make the Alola game links easier to create, as writing "<nowiki>[[Pokémon Sun and Moon|Pokémon Sun, Moon]], [[Pokémon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon|Ultra Sun, and Ultra Moon]]</nowiki>" for a link version of "Pokémon Sun, Moon, Ultra Sun, and Ultra Moon" again and again can get tiresome, plus it eats up a lot of unnecessary space. I'd do it myself, but I'm not sure how, so I've come to ask for your help again. Can you do it, or at least ask someone else to do it? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 09:30, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
::::::I think we need a link template to make the Alola game links easier to create, as writing "<nowiki>[[Pokémon Sun and Moon|Pokémon Sun, Moon]], [[Pokémon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon|Ultra Sun, and Ultra Moon]]</nowiki>" for a link version of "Pokémon Sun, Moon, Ultra Sun, and Ultra Moon" again and again can get tiresome, plus it eats up a lot of unnecessary space. I'd do it myself, but I'm not sure how, so I've come to ask for your help again. Can you do it, or at least ask someone else to do it? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 09:30, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Took a while to remember what the template was, but [[Template:Game4]] exists, though I edited it to add USUM. Typing the code <nowiki>{{game4|Sun|Moon|Sun|Moon}}</nowiki> should give you this: {{game4|Sun|Moon|Sun|Moon}}.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 11:54, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Took a while to remember what the template was, but [[Template:Game4]] exists, though I edited it to add USUM. Typing the code <nowiki>{{game4|Sun|Moon|Sun|Moon}}</nowiki> should give you this: {{game4|Sun|Moon|Sun|Moon}}.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 11:54, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Thank you! Also, another issue regarding link templates: when adding a link to a Pokémon's alternate form, it's usually written as <nowiki>{{DL|List of Pokémon with form differences|<Pokémon>|<Form name>}}</nowiki>, which, like the previous thing you fixed, is a bit lengthy, especially if done repeatedly. So I've been thinking about the creation of a link template to fix the issue, going something like this: <nowiki>{{form|<Pokémon>|<Form name>}}</nowiki>, which would lead to the correct section of [[List of Pokémon with form differences]], based on the contents of the second slot (the one with <Pokémon> in my example here). Do you think this could/should be made? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 13:58, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Also, I just noticed: your edit on {{template|game4}} was a bit flawed. The "Sun and Moon" part of the link includes the word "Versions", even though it's not supposed to. I saw you fixed this issue regarding the "Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon" part of the link, but it seems you still missed something. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 06:04, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Did you miss my above messages? Or have you just been too busy to answer yet? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 08:55, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::I purposely left the "versions" in the first link as I wasn't confident whether adding a switch would mess the template up and mess up other pages that are using the template, so I didn't risk it. I'll bring up to idea for a "form template" to the other staff members, though I think it's a fine idea.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 12:45, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::1) Oh. I see. Well, I've already used the template on a couple pages, so now what? 2) Thank you. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 13:32, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::Just leave the ones you've added. I'll tweak the template in a userspace at some point. As for the form template, [[User:Abcboy/Form|Abcboy]] has already made a template in his userpage, that'll be under consideration.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 13:03, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
{{indent}}Thank you. Also, whoa. It appears that this template idea wasn't as new as I thought. Let's hope it'll finally get mainspaced some day. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 14:04, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
:Thanks for helping me out with {{user|EternalDragonX}}. He also left a reply to your response already, just in case you haven't noticed yet. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 17:45, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
::He still doesn't believe either of us. Could you do something about it? And, if possible, could you continue the talk with him on his page instead of mine? PS. His refusal to use big capital letters in talk pages irks me. I know there's technically nothing wrong with it, but if you see fit to notify him about it too, then please do. If you don't, I won't hold it against you. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 16:18, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
:::A few days ago, he started arguing with me about [[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92#viridian gym|another subject (s)]]. Please help me. I'm seriously growing tired of this. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 18:39, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
::::I'll leave a message on their talk page.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 03:01, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::Thank you. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 05:55, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::After a bit of absence from this talk page, I'm back again. Regarding the [[Master Trainer]] article, how do we list the Trainers? Do we do it in the regular Trainer class Trainer list fashion, or some other way? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 15:21, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Hello? Did you miss my above post? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 10:14, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::It's currently being discussed by staff members, precisely to what extent do we want to detail the trainers. The trainers will be listed in table format, by the way.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 11:49, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::OK. In that case, I'll just wait and see how it'll be done. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 12:00, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::Immediately, another thing: as I'm now editing "Rocket Hideout" links to "[[Team Rocket Hideout]]", I discovered that [[Pokémon Reorchestrated: Kanto Symphony]] had been protected in 2016 because of "speculation crackdown". Whatever the issue was back then, I'm pretty sure it's long gone by now. Could the page be unprotected now? PS. Funnily enough, turns out that '''I''' was the last person to edit that page before it was protected, way back in 2015. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 12:16, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::Done.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 07:31, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::Thanks a ton! That's the last redirect link I need to edit! (Since I'm naturally not touching user or talk pages.) --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 08:17, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::My next thing is in regards to {{template|Sign}}. It hasn't been updated in years, and I personally feel like we need new sign styles for the games that have come out since. What do you think? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 10:59, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::::I've brought it up with the other staff members. Not too sure what the status of the template is, whether it's discontinued or not.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 04:53, 1 December 2018 (UTC)


== Undoing changes ==
== Undoing changes ==
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::Staff are aware of the issues and are looking into it.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 05:58, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
::Staff are aware of the issues and are looking into it.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 05:58, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
:::Thank you. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 19:19, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
:::Thank you. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 19:19, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
::::I'm not sure what's being done to rectify this problem, nor do I presume to know, but for the record, I'm still having these problems. Here's the latest one I got:
[39026dee922ac834907c8f6e] 2018-09-20 07:23:46: Fatal exception of type "Error"
::::[[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 07:25, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
:::::My apologies, but this problem is still happening for me. Is the staff still investigating the issue? Or did they think they found a solution and implemented it already? Not that I doubt anyone's effectiveness in this matter. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 23:43, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::Still haven't heard back on whether the problem was fixed or not, but I'll ping the higher ups about the issue.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 04:31, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Okay, thanks. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:45, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
== Transfer-only moves and ability changes ==
Can we add a section to every Pokemon page that lists all the moves the Pokemon can know only if it originated in an earlier generation (move tutors, old TMs, etc.)? Cross-checking multiple pages for this information is annoying. Second, can we change the Pokemon infobox template to make pages like {{p|Pelipper}} clear that Pelipper can't have drizzle in Generations 3-6? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:06, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
== Zlblosser18 ==
A little heads-up, it looks like in spite of [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AZlblosser18&type=revision&diff=2853997&oldid=2853990 your advice], Zlblosser18 is still [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Charmander_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29&type=revision&diff=2855104&oldid=2855092 removing templates]. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 20:22, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
:It also seems like they're disregarding [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Zlblosser18&diff=prev&oldid=2855095 my advice] that titles like [[Pokémon Origins]] and [[Pokémon Generations]] are not traditionally italicized here. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 20:25, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
::Looks like TiddlyWinks has given them a final warning. --[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 04:33, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Seems like it. I'll withdraw the complaint, then. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 05:02, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
== floor order cont ==
im confused, youre saying the ordering will be RBY>GSC>FRLG>HGSS regardless of floor order? so do you mean list all rby items before gsc or put them together if there are two items on the same floor? yes, i am using common sense by not putting an item deep in the dungeon first, but what if said deep item were to be on one of the earlier floors if not the earliest? then floor order dictates i would have to list said item before many of the other items i pass by before i even get to it. thats why floor order is bad. i know were not a walkthrough, but we have to list the items in one way or another, and like you said, it should make sense atleast right? I understand that it is not a "high" priority. but if i can list in an order that makes sense, why not? is floor order really a higher priority? again im trying to say that floor order is bad. --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 12:58, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
:Yes, the game order will still be the same regardless of the template going by floor order. If an items exist in more than one set of games and is in the same location, the games get put together.
:Just so we're on the same page here, when you say "deep" you mean tucked in the furthest part of the first floor, right? Because there's no way the place I just described could be the first thing you come across. If you mean if the player traverses from the opposite end (say Victory Road, Pokemon League entrance to Route 22 entrance), then that's not really important. The location ordering should be from the player's first run through of the area (so Route 22 to Pokemon League).
:Sorting by floor order helps users see what items are available at a certain floor in one grouping. It'd actually be ''more'' confusing if the listing were to alternate between "Floor 1" and "Floor 2", especially if there's suddenly a "Basement floor" in between them.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 14:43, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
::may i suggest instead of RBY>GSC>FRLG>HGSS, that it be RBY>FRLG>GSC>HGSS? because rby frlg are basically the same games and a lot of the time they will have items that are common to all of them, but also a lot of the time frlg will have some new items, and shoving gsc items in between would not only look weird, but confusing.
::yes i mean for example tucked away in a place on the first floor that also serves as the back exit. therefore in a regular playthrough, most players would pick up said item last, since you run by every other item before it. victory road is a perfect example of what im talking about. of course i wouldnt list the items as if they were going from indigo plateau to route 22. that makes no sense. if you look at the list: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Victory_Road_(Kanto)#Items i list guard spec ultra ball and full restore on floor 2 after overheat on floor 3. why? because those 3 items are grouped in an area in floor 2 that can only be accessible after passing through the entirety of floor 3; the area in this case being the exit. so in my head, this ordering makes perfect sense. blindly following floor order would mean i would list these items before the max revive, which again i dont think makes much sense since we talked about how they literally cant be come acrossed before the floor 3 items. --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 18:11, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Any unpredictable order is bad. A reasonable person would generally expect to see everything for a floor together. If I see several items that start with something like 1F, 2F, 1F, 3F, 5F (or whatever), it just looks messy to me. Nothing that extreme may occur in the games, but that's what your logic would demand. (And less extreme examples are still messy IMO.)
:::It's not exactly hard to look back to the "end" of a floor if there were items you just couldn't get to when you passed through the first part (if floors are grouped). But if floors aren't grouped, then if I see several items starting with "2F" and then that turns into "3F", I'm gonna think those were all the items on 2F in the list, and that can be very confusing. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:34, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
::::altho i still believe that 1F, 2F, 1F, 3F, 5F (or whatever) would be better if it made sense that you'd get the items that way, i have argued my point to the fullest and i can respect it if you disagree. however, still waiting on you force fire to answer my question about listing the items in region order rather than game order. aka kanto>johto>hoenn etc. over rby>gsc>frlg etc. --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 00:57, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::Ordering the games by RBY>FRLG>GSC>HGSS is fine, some (or a majority of) articles are like this.
:::::So we are talking about the same thing, that brings up the question of why you are concerned about having to place an item that is deep in a dungeon as the first item. As I said, the order should be listed on the players first run through of the area. You don't need to worry about those that'll traverse the opposite way.
:::::As for items that can only be accessed via another floor, group those under all the other Floor 2 items and say in the descriptor that it requires traversing through Floor 3. Putting those items below Floor 3 makes it a touch confusing, and also a bit walkthrough-ish. I guess it's just me being condescending, but players should be able figure that stuff (having to traverse through floor 3 to get to some floor 2 items) for themselves. And ass TiddlyWinks said, listing the items by floor looks much more cleaner and easier on the eyes.
:::::Also, I saw and checked that you changed the template to be one big listing rather than separate listings. Maybe that should've been discussed first before making the edit. --[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 04:47, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::i am concerned about having to place an item that is deep as the first item because if for example it was one of, if not the only, items on the first accessible floor (say floor 1), but not accessible unless you traverse one of the other floors (say floor 2), then we gotta list it first even tho you probably get the other items on floor 2 before it. you already answered this in your 3rd paragraph. like i said to tiddlywinks if u guys feel like floor order is cleaner then fine. i also like your solution of putting in the descriptor that it requires traversing through floor 3. i think ill do that. --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 14:33, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::about putting in the descriptor that obtaining an item requires traversing another floor.. would you just list that as a sentence at the end? or would you like put it in an asterisk at the end? --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 15:24, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Examples of these sorts of explanations/directions can be seen on pages like [[Frost Cavern]], [[Victory Road (Kalos)]], and [[Haina Desert]]. The descriptions should be easily readable, which tooltips are not (mobile users cannot read them at all AFAIK). The only reason to consider a tooltip would be if the detail is exceptionally long. (Because a very long description is, itself, also not the most readable thing.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:24, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
== Satomi Kōrogi ==
I need help moving the [[Satomi Kōrogi]] article. The romanization seems to prefer using Satomi K'''oo'''rogi instead but I am unable to move the article because of a redirect interfering. Thank you. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 22:33, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
:Moved.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 03:01, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
::Thanks! :D [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 03:18, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
== Transfer-only moves and ability changes  ==
Can we add a section to every Pokemon page that lists all the moves the Pokemon can know only if it originated in an earlier generation (move tutors, old TMs, etc.)? Cross-checking multiple pages for this information is annoying. Second, can we change the Pokemon infobox template to make pages like {{p|Pelipper}} clear that Pelipper can't have drizzle in Generations 3-6? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 20:34, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
:I personally see no need in listing transferable moves, it's common sense. Of course a Pokémon that only knows X move in Gen III is going to know it if you transfer it to a Gen vII game. And it's really not much of a nuisance. Want a to know a Pokémon's moveset from a specific generation? go to the separate learnlists. Want a specific move? go to the specific move article. It's not ''that'' annoying.
:The infobox templates is currently in discussions of an update. The update will accommodate having more abilities listed. Have patience.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 07:05, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
::The whole purpose of learnset sections was to put every move that a Pokemon can know in one place, right? If the learnset sections are not doing that, what other purpose do they have? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 19:47, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
:::It's to list moves a Pokémon can learn in the '''current''' generation. Transferring moves isn't exactly "learning a move by level up or breeding in Generation VII". If a Pokémon can only learn a move in a previous generation, go to that generation's learnset or the move's article. You're only clicking one link, not 500. It's not as mundane as you're making it out to be.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 04:29, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
::::It appears to me you're just saying how another question is easy to answer.
::::If you're seriously interested in this (not just stalling), let me suggest (with best intentions) to just try to answer "What moves can Pikachu '''''know''''' in a copy of, say, USUM?" by browsing Bulbapedia. I currently need more than 5 minutes, and I would consider this ''the'' central use case, and probably the most important question for competitive play. (It's not even easy to be confident the resulting list was exhaustive, so if you'd like, you may even post your list here, and let me see if I have any more.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 09:46, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::Saying "what can Pikachu learn in USUM" is literally the same as saying "what can Pikachu learn in Gen VII". Not Gen II. Not Gen IV. Saying a specific game means you're looking for a learnset from a specific generation. And it certainly does not take "more than 5 minutes" to find what you want. If you know what you're looking for, you have a Pokémon and move/generation in mind, it should only take you one minute top. A few clicks. You're not going to be scouring the entire site just to look for one move.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 11:43, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::Neither of these question were asked, you just continue to answer them.
::::::Pikachu can ''know'' moves in USUM that it cannot ''learn'' in USUM, {{m|Mega Kick}}, for example. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:10, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::It's called a learnlist for a reason, moves a Pokémon can learn in a game or generation. Of course it'll know a move from a previous generation if you transfer it to a current game, that does not need to be spelled out. No one is going to think that it won't know the move once they transfer the Pokémon. If users want to know what moves it can learn previously, they can browse the site.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 12:24, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
{{indent}}I'm not sure you understand me/us (or even try to, really). So, just for me to get this clear: Are you saying that, in your opinion, a) the question "What moves can <species> '''''know''''' in <game/generation>?" is not relevant, not worthwhile for Bulbapedia to easily provide an answer to, and that b) species pages should only provide moves a Pokémon can ''learn'' in the current generation? [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 14:14, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:It's not hard to find what you're looking for, all you're doing is clicking on one link, totaling up to a few seconds. If you had to go through page after page, I can get why it'd be annoying or hard. But it's not.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 14:39, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
::I'm beginning to feel confident you're just stalling. I'm asking questions, I don't get answers.
::I'll just continue trying to keep this simple: Please list all moves Pikachu can know (in a USUM game). If it's not hard, I'd be glad to hear that it's easily possible using Bulbapedia (and preferably also how). Also (and in particular if you're unable or unwilling to list all of Pikachu's moves), please answer the two questions I just asked, a) and b). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 15:02, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Bulbapedia is not a strategy guide. Comp is not our focus.
:::You're highlighting comp as your reason for a promoting "moves a [species] can know" angle. But there's a bunch of comp stuff we're never going to do. We're not doing tier lists. We're not gonna tell you what "good" movesets are. Comp is no reason that we would "have" to accomodate anything.
:::That's not to say we're thoroughly hostile to a list of "legacy" moves.
:::But kind of like ForceFire has said, learnlists ARE for what a Pokemon can learn ''within'' a generation. It doesn't ''strictly'' make sense to include "legacy" moves; that's a concern that comes from a pretty specific focus like comp/challenges.
:::Yes, it would be somewhat easier if we had a list of legacy moves. But (to repeat myself) that's not necessarily our focus and you ''can'' figure the information out if you really need to.
:::(And to repeat myself once more, we're not hostile to a legacy move list. I just can't tell you if/when it might happen at the moment.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:39, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
::::Thanks, Tiddlywinks.
::::I may be highlighting comp as the use case, and/but I know it's not our focus, I don't do so because I want to promote comp or anything. What I'm basically trying to do is rephrase Sumwun's question of what use case species (or learnset) pages currently try to serve; basically, why are they there, what are they supposed to easily provide an answer to:
::::"What move can <species> ''learn'' in <game/generation>?" may be equally sensible/important, but if the pages were focused (solely/primarily) on that, there would be no need to have an "By events" subsection (to a lesser extent, probably not even "By breeding"), and I think we can all agree that this information is valuable/sensible. What I'm thinking, and what I believe Sumwun thinks, is that a "By transfer from a prior generation" subsection is equally valuable/sensible.
::::Anyway, I know how that's a hassle to create or even design, and I'm not forcing it. But I'd like to stress that Sumwun's suggestion, in my opinion, is far from focusing on some weird, minor edge case, and is providing benefit. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:17, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::"Please list Pikachu's moves in USUM". Just go to its page. It's right ''there''. Want to know it's previous moves, go click on ''one'' link. Easy. And I'm answering sumwun's reasoning of "cross checking multiple pages is annoying", since he's the one that stated this conversation. All you're trying to do is justify sumwun's laziness.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 16:49, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::Right now, I can't just click one link. Depending on how old a Pokemon is, I may need to click 1-6 links, load 1-6 learnset pages, and scan 2-25 sections. I would consider reducing this to 0 clicks and 1 section a big and worthwhile improvement. If this kind of laziness is unjustified, why do we have any learnset pages at all? We might as well be saying, "Want to know whether <Pokemon> can learn <move>? Load ''one'' move article and do ''one'' ctrl f. Easy."
::::::By the way, I would also like to know the answers to Nescientist's 2 questions. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 22:05, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::That's an exaggeration. If you know what you're looking for, it'll only taking you one-two clicks. You can't be searching for what move a Pokemon can learn previously without a set goal. You're playing Ultra Sun, but you want to know what it can learn in '''Diamond''' version. Diamond is the key word which equates to '''Gen IV'''. So you're already looking for its Gen IV learnset. Go to its page and click on Gen IV. Done.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 11:54, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::I have moved this discussion to [[Bulbapedia talk:Project Pokédex/Structure#Adding moves available only by transfer from an earlier generation|a more public place]], so others have an easier opportunity to chime in (and so that possibly, ForceFire doesn't receive as much email notifications about messages not directed to them directly).
::::::::ForceFire, the question "What moves can Pikachu know in USUM?" does not include "Diamond", and [[Pikachu (Pokémon)]] does not mention Mega Kick. I have detailed some more about what pages you'd need to traverse where I have continued the discussion I'm interested in.
::::::::Tiddlywinks, I have addressed some of your comments there, and would appreciate to get to know your opinions. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:18, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::Pikachu cannot '''learn''' Mega Kick in USUM (hence why it's not there at first glance), but it can know it if you transfer it from another game (which is common sense, of course it's going to know Mega Kick if you transfer it, the game isn't going to force it to forget the move).
:::::::::I just gave an example of how it only take one-two clicks to find what you're looking for. And you misinterpreted my example. If you're thinking of a certain game, you're automatically thinking of a certain generation. Go to the page and click on that specific generation.
:::::::::You can convince me to change my mind, but so far, "it's too hard, annoying, and boring to sift through a few pages" is not convincing enough to change my mind.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 12:28, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::I don't understand. Please name the page(s) I need to answer "What moves can Pikachu '''''KNOW''''' in USUM?". [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:31, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
{{indent}}When you say "know" you're saying what it can learn via other means, and that includes transfer. The pages are the previous gen learnset pages, those are the moves Pikachu can know in USUM if you were to transfer it to USUM. Honestly...--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 12:35, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:And those are six, plus Pikachus page, that's seven. (I even mentioned other difficulties at the other page.) It's not easy, it's hard. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:37, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::If you have a game in mind, you have a generation in mind. You mentioned Mega Kick, Pikachu can only learn it in Gen I, III, and VI. So you're '''ONLY''' going to click '''one''' of those link, not the other links. Why would you. You already have the generation you need, you don't need to click on the others. If someone is unsure of the generation, they would look through the move article and ctrl+f "Pikachu".
::It's like if I wanted to watch a certain Johto league episode, but I don't know which number it is. I'm not going to watch the entirety of the XY series, I'm going to look through the Johto arc.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 12:44, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:::You're exactly right there, but you're answering "Can Pikachu know Mega Kick in USUM?", not "What moves can Pikachu know in USUM?". I have no prior knowledge that Mega Kick is a possible solution. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:47, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::::If you don't have a move in mind, then you have a previous generation in mind (to transfer from). If you have neither in mind, then you're not really looking for "what move can Pikachu know in USUM".--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 12:51, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::I'm positive that I have neither in mind, and that I am looking for "what moves can Pikachu know in USUM". [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 13:22, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::Then you're not transferring then. The only other viable option of wanting to know what moves Pikachu can ''know'' is events, since everything else it learns, and events are already listed.
::::::If you're transferring Pokémon, you already have either a generation or move in mind. You're either thinking "I want to transfer Pikachu from <game>, but am not sure what it can learn in that game", which you then click on the '''appropriate''' generation moveset. Or you're thinking "I know Pikachu can learn <move> in a previous generation, but I don't know what game", which you then go to the move page and ctrl+f PIkachu.
::::::If you're not thinking of neither of those, then you aren't looking to transfer Pokémon.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 13:46, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::I'm not thinking of a specific generation. I want to know the answer to "What moves can Pikachu know in USUM".
:::::::I can post some ''more special'' questions that require the same page traversion, such as "Can Pikachu know a sleep-inducing move?" (i.e., can I get a Pikachu on my copy of USUM with a sleep-inducing move, by whatever means?"), or "What is the most powerful move Magikarp may know in USUM?" (i.e., what's the maximum base power for any move a Magikarp may know in USUM, by whatever means).
:::::::These should be questions you may understand better. Please try to answer them. (If you do, you will find out that you won't find the answers at the species pages alone.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 15:50, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::If we are expected to be able to go to the move page and ctrl f the Pokemon's name for transfer-only moves, why are we not expected to do that for all moves? Why do we have full lists of level up moves and TM moves for each Pokemon?
::::::::By the way, another example of a question that would become a lot easier is, "What are all the ways I can get a Golem that knows a physical attack that is strong against psychic?" [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 22:20, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
{{indent}}Nescientist... what do you mean by "know"? Because a Pokémon can "know" a move via transfer or events. If you have neither a generation or move in mind, then you are '''''not''''' transferring. You are just blindly going through pages for no reason. If you're question ends so vaguely at "What moves can Pikachu know in USUM", then I don't know what you're looking for because you're not explaining the method. It's either "What can Pikachu know in USUM '''via transfer'''" or "What can Pikachu know in USUM '''via events'''". If you're talking about transfers, then I've already answered that many times.
Wanting to know what "sleep inducing moves" or "highest possible power" is competitive fluff. We are not a strategy guide. Casual gamers aren't going to care about that stuff. A casual gamer is going to want to know what moves their Pokemon can know in the game they have in their hands without outside influence (i.e. transfer or events). They're not going to care about sleep inducing move or highest based power. Not everyone is a competitive player.
Sumwun, don't be difficult. I don't even know what you're talking about. If you have a '''''move''''' in mind, go to the move page and ctrl+f. If you have a '''''game''''' in mind, go to the appropriate learnset page. You are '''''not''''' going to be looking through the learnsets to look for a single move. No one is going to do that. '''''No one''''' is going to blindly look through six learnsets looking for just one move, when they can just go to the move article itself. It's not that hard. I don't think you understand what the different kinds templates are for, and assuming they're all do the same thing.
You're Golem question, like Nescientist's "sleep inducing" question is competitive fluff. Again, we are not a strategy guide. And your question was '''even more vague'''. What is the method you seek? level up? breeding? TM? what? Be more specific in your searches. I like to think users are browsing the site fully aware of what they are looking for, not exact but an idea of what they are looking for. By the sounds of it, you're browsing the site without a single thing in mind. It stops at "What can Golem learn/know" rather than specifying "What can Golem learn/know via this specific method".--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 04:31, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
:I already rephrased what it means when I do not specify: it means "by whatever means", which means at all, by level-up or events or transfer or ''anything'' else. Moves a Pokémon may know in USUM. I'm explicitly ''not'' saying "by transfer only" (or anything else), I don't know why you insist I need to say that; because that is not what I'm asking.
:Anyway, you seem to have understood that my specific questions (and Sumwun's) are hard to answer, not easy. (Which is good, because that's why I mentioned them; my original question is ''more general''.)
:I would object to your take that it's only competitive fluff (and I did so [[Bulbapedia talk:Project Pokédex/Structure#Adding moves available only by transfer from an earlier generation|here]]). What do you think casual gamers would be looking for? If you're excluding what you call "competitive fluff", do you think they would need "By breeding"? (If so, why?) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:33, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
::If nobody goes through learnset pages for moves, what do people use them for?
::Transfer-only moves are not competitive fluff or strategy guides. They are real Pokemon information that is true even when nobody is competitive battling and is not at all fan-made, but they simply happen to be more useful to competitive battlers. If this kind of information isn't allowed on Bulbapedia, why do we have a page called "World Championships", which is pretty much the definition of competitive battling? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 03:10, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Nescientist: This discussion is about transfer moves, so I assume you're talking about and looking for transfer moves. If you're looking for "anything at all", then you're not looking for anything specific so the '''bare minimum''' is already on the species article, you do not need to click on anything else. Everything it can know at '''bare minimum''' is ''right there''.
:::I didn't even answer both of your questions. I basically said that they are irrelevant because we are not a strategy guide. We're not going to say "This Pokemon can know this move which is X power" because that is competitive fluff and strategy guide-ish. No casual gamer is going to think that specifically.
:::I just said what casual gamers are looking for "'''things their Pokemon can learn normally within the game they have in their hands, without outside influence like transfers and events'''". This includes, level up moves, TMs, and such. Breeding is game mechanic and should be listed, I don't regard it as competitive fluff.
:::Sumwun: I don't think you understand how these things work. People look through the learnsets to look for moves '''''from a specific game or generation'''''. They are looking for the '''entire moveset''', not just one move. '''The entire moveset'''. If you're looking for one move, go to the move article. Looking for a moveset for a specific game, look through the learnset. It's not that hard to understand.
:::"World Championships" is an article detailing an event. It's not detailing strategies. It's not detailing what moves would be better. It's not detailing which Pokemon would be better. It's just detailing the event. Again, it's like you have no idea what that article is about.
:::It's real information, yes. But it can be seen by going through the moveset pages, because like I said, someone looking to transfer their Pokemon over so they can have a Pokemon with a move they can no longer learn, already have a game or move in mind. They are not blindly looking through pages.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 06:23, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
::::Just going to put my 2 cents in here (I'm not strongly for nor against):
::::1) Firstly, I think an important question that needs to be answered first is: Does a section on transfer-only moves have any role outside of the competitive field? All the examples raised at the moment have all been competitive play-oriented which I agree shouldn't be Bulbapedia's focus. I can think of one question where a transfer-only moves section ''could'' help with (e.g. "A Corsola I received from a trade has Whirlpool, Sucker Punch, and Secret Power. Is it hacked?" - although it wouldn't be too hard to find this information elsewhere + it is quite a specific question).
::::2) Another point that should be discussed is that some (albeit a small number of) moves may not be obvious to some users whether they can be transferred or not - e.g. inability to transfer most HMs, ability to transfer from VC, ability to transfer certain HMs (e.g. Defog, Whirlpool)
::::3) Lastly, I should note that a transfer-only moves section is likely to be longer than most will think (esp. as most of it is made up of moves which lost their TM status in a new gen) - though the length isn't as important --[[User:Wowy|<span style="color:#AAAAFF">'''Wowy'''</span>]][[User talk:Wowy|<sub style="color:#B69E00;">'''(토크)'''</sub>]] 07:01, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::i don't think your example is all that great, because force fire is going to say you would just look up the move pages of each of those individual moves and ctrl f for corsola. an example i could think of which is pretty niche, but possible i think, is "im dead set on having a corsola for my playthrough of ultra sun. i want it to have the best movelist possible; im willing to transfer from prev gens to do so. is there a quick way i can get a list of all those moves without having to go through all the pages?" so imo this new section for moves learned from prev gens isnt useless; theres definitely a benefit. i think the question is, is it worth it.
:::::if you ARE going through the lists of previous gens, you already know what you ARENT looking for: every move learnable from the current gen. although i dont think going through lists for new moves requires THAT much work, i dont think the work is negligible either. --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 07:47, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::Yes, I completely agree with you (maybe I should have made that more clear). I was just trying to give an example of a question which would be less competitive play-oriented (because the examples already given are not), and I as I said, the information could easily be found elsewhere --[[User:Wowy|<span style="color:#AAAAFF">'''Wowy'''</span>]][[User talk:Wowy|<sub style="color:#B69E00;">'''(토크)'''</sub>]] 08:48, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::I don't know how I can be any clearer, but the question is "What are moves Pikachu can know in USUM", i.e. by whatever means; it is not, I repeat, NOT something else. The species page alone does not answer it: you need that and ''all'' previous generation learnsets, at minimum. (And that's all I'm saying, basically. I believe you, ForceFire, finally understood that.)
:::::::Wowy, I believe it would only be beneficial if you presented your opinion at [[Bulbapedia talk:Project Pokédex/Structure#Adding moves available only by transfer from an earlier generation|that other talk page]] (maybe even answered my question there). Anyway, I'm just gonna address your points here:
:::::::1. I wouldn't know how any question about moves would not have at least some relevance to competitive play; battles and moves are a central concept of the Pokémon franchise, and anyone who plays Pokémon should have some interest in competitive play. It's a different thing to talk about serious competitive battlers (like, those who maintain tier lists and whatnot), though; and I think they wouldn't really care what the answer to my two questions are (but I could be mistaken, because again, I'm not a competitive player myself). The Swinub I mentioned at that other page was purely non-competitive in that sense, too; I used it for a playthrough. As an aside, I guess the section I propose wouldn't necessarily answer your type of "legal" question; for example, a section would include both {{m|Pay Day}} and {{m|Mimic}} for Pikachu, but a Pikachu that knows both moves simultaneously would still be illegal (I think that's similar to how the current "By breeding" section cannot answer whether two Egg Moves at the same time are legal.)
:::::::2. I already said that at that other page when I explained that it is even harder to find out than I initially thought. (A "By transfer" section will ''not'' necessarily include all moves a Pokémon may have known at some earlier game (Pikachu ''can'' know {{m|Petal Dance}}, for example, but ''not'' in USUM by any means such as transfer); therefore, I also don't think Tiddlywinks' choice of the word "legacy moves" was exact for my proposal.)
:::::::3. I'm not sure it will be that long, but as you said, it shouldn't really matter.
:::::::Sumwun: I ''do'' understand what you're saying (and I agree), but you seem to derail the discussion with some of your more provocative questions (ForceFire never said Bulbapedia shouldn't cover anything that has anything to do with competitive play, for example). I hope that's not your intention, let's try to keep it simple. :)
:::::::ForceFire, moves listed under "By breeding" are not covered by the text you bolded (and by the way, in my opinion, those are about as much "competitive fluff" as "By transfer" is), "By events" even less. I think you didn't answer whether you think casual gamers would need "By breeding"!? (Or did you? I'm still - seriously - trying to get to the bottom of what you think move sections should cover and why.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:57, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::You didn't even read what I wrote, because I already answered that in my previous response. And I know it's an outright lie when you say you don't have a game or generation in mind, because the question is "What can Pikachu know in '''USUM'''". You've singled out '''USUM'''. That is that game you have in mind. And since you're not looking for anything specific, just the bare minimum (level up, TMS) and that's already on the article. All moves that Pikachu can know through '''normal gameplay (i.e. not anything specific, by any means)''' in '''USUM''' are already on the Pikachu page. The species page already has the most current (i.e. '''USUM''' or '''Gen VII''') moveset. Why are you even looking through the previous generation movesets if you're only looking for moves it can know in'''USUM'''? It's already on the species page, you don't need to click on anything else.
::::::::Breeding is a game mechanic. It's as important as TMs and level up moves. The move sections should cover all moves a Pokémon can learn '''through normal gameplay''' in the most '''recent game or generation'''. Transferring isn't '''learning through normal gameplay". Sure, neither are events, but I can look past that because those are generally one time things and should be noted.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 17:39, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::Nescientist didn't ask for moves that could be known "through normal gameplay". He/she/it asked for moves that could be known "by whatever means", which includes transfer as well as normal gameplay. Is this not a valid question to ask? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:14, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::Sigh.. Going through it step by step:
::::::::::# I did read your (whole) message.
::::::::::# I did not lie.
::::::::::# I am not looking for a bare minimum. (My question was on "moves Pikachu can know in USUM [by whatever means]".)
::::::::::# What Sumwun said (and everyone, including Sumwun, should be able to see how it is a ''valid'' question to ask).
::::::::::# I am looking through previous movesets because not all moves Pikachu can know in USUM are at [[Pikachu (Pokémon)]]; Mega Kick, for example, isn't. (We've been there before, I mentioned that way up above, even rephrased it repeatedly.)
::::::::::# Yes, I do need to click on something else to check, i.e. all previous movesets (at minimum).
::::::::::# Transfer is a game mechanic.
::::::::::# In my opinion, breeding is not quite as important as TMs and level-up moves, if only because I cannot&mdash;by no means&mdash;teach (an individual) Pokémon I already own its species' Egg Moves. (It's still important, though.)
::::::::::# Finally, a "definition" of what you think move sections should cover: moves Pokémon may ''learn'' through normal gameplay within the generation, plus event moves. I'll just mention that they do already cover more than that, for example how {{p|Cubchoo}} may learn Avalanche in USUM.
::::::::::Beyond that, of course, I can't be of any help to you when you claim that I didn't read your message and outright lied. And, up to this point, I was trying hard. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 20:02, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::I think the problem with the "outright lie" is that transferring a Pokemon requires 2 games. Nescientist knew that the END game would be US or UM. When Nescientist said he didn't have a game "in mind", he/she/it was referring to the START game, and his/her/its willingness to transfer a Pokemon FROM any game TO US or UM. Nescientist, is this right? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 20:52, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::Yes, in your words/example, the end game would be USUM, but the start game could be anything (including USUM itself, i.e. no transfer at all). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 16:42, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Should we bring this discussion to another administrator's talk page? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 17:22, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
== Need your help ==
Hi there! Can you please help me with [[User talk:Mikuri#Who's stalking whose edits?|this discussion]]? I am tired of explaining to them that their obsession with having the current revision of a page is more of a hindrance than a help. Aside from the examples I offered in my talk page, you can check GrammarFreak01's latest edits to [[Marian]]'s page. That sentence they edited was perfectly fine as it was, but they changed it for no reason other than being the last person to have edited the page.
In doing so, they added misleading information because they clearly have no knowledge on the matter, first by saying that Jessie was disguised as Jessedia "at the time", creating a false impression that she disguised as Jessedia on one occasion when in fact this is a recurring disguise Jessie has changed into at least three times, and then by saying she was "briefly disguised". Assuming you don't know, Jessie has appeared as Jessedia for the duration of the entire Kanto Grand Festival and the Wallace Cup's Battle Stage, as well as in DP093 when she was interviewing Fantina.
This is not what one would call "briefly". This is not a one-time disguise that is blown off by Ash and his friends at the end of the episode. It's a recurring thing, and GrammarFreak01 is apparently unaware of that and changing a sentence that was completely okay with their nonsense just to accomplish their "goal". It's getting tired and I'm asking for help because these are instances in which I got involved, but who knows the amount of wrong information they have added to the tons of pages they edit daily.
It's frankly discouraging to edit a page only to have its content vandalized (inserting gibberish into pages counts as vandalism, right?) by someone who has no idea what they're doing and are just trying to get the most recent revision of a page. Also, judging by their latest edit to my talk page, they expect me to be some sort of wizard who can see into the future and tell them that their edit is wrong ''before'' they even make it. I don't know how to respond to that and I'm not the only user who has complained about GrammarFreak01's bad editing habits. Something needs to be done about this situation and that's why I'm asking you to intervene. Please help. --[[User:Mikuri|<span style="color:#2b915e;">'''Mi'''</span>]][[User talk: Mikuri|<span style="color:#52cc91;">'''ku'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Mikuri|<span style="color:#8debbc;">'''ri'''</span>]] 15:12, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
:I am well aware of how long Jessie has been disguised as Jessedia and what she used that disguise for. [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Marian&type=revision&diff=2860143&oldid=2860142 The original sentence] in question just did not make sense to me from a grammatical standpoint. Also, for someone who constantly complains about me having a need to "have the current revision of a page", Mikuri has a nasty habit of editing articles hours and even minutes right after me, leading me to assume she is maliciously following me using my edit history. Examples of this are:
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Melody_(M02)&action=history Melody (M02)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Maren&action=history Maren]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Carol&action=history Carol]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Tobias_(M02)&action=history Tobias (M02)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Molly_Hale&action=history Molly Hale]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Liza_(Johto)&action=history Liza (Johto)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Oakley&action=history Oakley]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Annie_(M05)&action=history Annie (M05)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Ross&action=history Ross]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Butler&action=history Butler]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Rafe&action=history Rafe]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Jack_Walker&action=history Jack Walker]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Lugia_(M02)&action=history Lugia (M02)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Entei_(M03)&action=history Entei (M03)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Celebi_(M04)&action=history Celebi (M04)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Suicune_(M04)&action=history Suicune (M04)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Lucario_(M08)&action=history Lucario (M08)]
:If you've noticed in the edit histories I provided, much of the articles hadn't been edited in months prior to my original edits. Then, when I make an edit, Mikuri follows after, which I find to be a complete contradiction to their complaints about my editing practices. This was also a problem back in June, when I first [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMikuri&type=revision&diff=2809252&oldid=2808516 confronted Mikuri about it]. The articles in question were:
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Lillie_(anime)&offset=20180628163311&action=history Lillie (anime)]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Brock%27s_Vulpix&action=history Brock's Vulpix]
:*[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Matori&offset=20180818063550&action=history Matori]
:At one point in our argument, I said [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMikuri&type=revision&diff=2859786&oldid=2859767 this]. I admit that it was poorly worded due to my blinding irritation of the situation (and that I probably should've changed it once I calmed down). But what I was hoping to convey was that if Mikuri had a problem with me trying to hog the latest revision of a page, they should've tried to take it to the talk page sooner, just like what was usually done with me whenever there was a problem.
:Clearly, this is a problem that has been going on for months now and I would appreciate your mediation. I don't particularly care about any outcome anymore, so fire away. I only ask that this contradiction on Mikuri's part be addressed in some way. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 22:34, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
::I started "maliciously following" GrammarFreak01's edit history '''after''' I noticed they were stalking my edits. Usually after I finished doing a major edit to a page, they would appear to unnecessarily tweak image sizes (something Tiddlywinks has warned them about) or make another one of their pointless edits. I accused them of doing that in some of my edit summaries and they decided to [[User talk:Mikuri#You're being paranoid|come to my talk page]] and call me paranoid. I could provide a laundry list of that, but I don't feel like it's needed. For one, GrammarFreak01's talk page is chock-full of messages telling them to stop with the pointless edits (and some of them were left there by you, Force Fire). In addition, I am not the only user who has complained about their edit stalking habits, as there is a [[User talk:GrammarFreak01#Edit Stalking|message left by PardescanSlowbro]] detailing the exact same behavior.
::In their defense, all GrammarFreak01 had to say is that they receive email notifications after someone edits a page they have edited in the past. So what? This is no excuse to go around and make needless edits only to have the current revision of a page. And that is the main point of this discussion: GrammarFreak01's history of wholly unnecessary edits that add nothing to our pages. Correction: sometimes their edits make the page worse, as they add wrong information about a subject they know nothing about only to have the most recent revision, as was the case with [[Yuzo]]'s page. Their concern isn't quality content and accurate information, but rather an enormous amount of unverified nonsense. I honestly don't care if my revision isn't the current one and I don't have this kind of problem with any other user in this entire wiki, '''unlike GrammarFreak01'''. Several users have contributed to pages I had worked on, and you don't see me complaining about them. But GrammarFreak01 is not here to contribute, they're here to make unnecessary edits.
::So yes, I can admit that I have edited several pages upon seeing one of GrammarFreak01's edits, but I guess this comes as no surprise considering the recent changes are there for everyone to see, and again, this was '''after''' I noticed they were stalking my edits and making unnecessary changes to them. And there's one notable difference: it was never to add information that was untrue about a subject I know nothing about. My point isn't that they are editing after me, but that those edits are needless. Editing a page after another user isn't a blockable offense, but inserting gibberish into pages is, as is edit flood and edit wars, behaviors also exhibited by GrammarFreak01. And I think it is worth comparing our contributions: I usually do a complete overhaul by adding verified information I gathered and uploading high quality images to the Archives, while GrammarFreak01 has a long and documented history of making pointless edits that add no real content to Bulbapedia and edit warring. --[[User:Mikuri|<span style="color:#2b915e;">'''Mi'''</span>]][[User talk: Mikuri|<span style="color:#52cc91;">'''ku'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Mikuri|<span style="color:#8debbc;">'''ri'''</span>]] 00:34, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
:::If you read the entire discussion, you will see that [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AGrammarFreak01&type=revision&diff=2825193&oldid=2825153 I explained myself and asked PardescanSlowbro for examples] where my edits were unnecessary and clearly malicious. I was happy to address those concerns. But they did not get back to me on that. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 01:25, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
== False positive abuse filter triggers ==
Hello, recently I tried to move a message I misplaced on a user's talk page (see log [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Special:AbuseLog?wpSearchUser=Ozank&wpSearchTitle=&wpSearchWiki= here]) to the bottom where it should have been, but the abuse filter didn't let me. If you want to look into this, feel free. [[User:Ozank|Ozank]] ([[User talk:Ozank|talk]]) 16:43, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
:He already [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User_talk:GrammarFreak01#Re:_Heads_up responded to that]. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 17:39, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
::Yeah, I've already answered this on GrammarFreak's talk page. I think the system may have deemed moving sections (to the proper place) a drastic edit for a new user. Other than that, you should be fine once you've become a member for a period of time.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 06:20, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
== Mimikyu's name ==
Hi there,
Since you're the one who placed the warning in Mimikyu's "Name Origin", would you mind giving it a look [[Talk:Mimikyu (Pokémon)#Mimic_.2B_Q_2|here]]? Seeing that talking about it in the talk page was the recommendation, I'd like to discuss about it a little. Thanks. [[User:ExLight|ExLight]] ([[User talk:ExLight|talk]]) 01:46, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
== Mewtwo's voice actor ==
I just watched [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lrTmDZavVVc a video] where it was revealed that the English voice actor of the {{OBP|Mewtwo|original series|original series Mewtwo}} was actually ''not'' Philip Bartlett. That was a stage name, and the Philip Bartlett who died years ago was a completely different person, with the ''real'' English voice actor behind Mewtwo ''and'' the Philip Bartlett stage name being a man named Jay Goede. I feel like this is worth checking into. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 17:22, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
:[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Dr._Fuji_(anime)&diff=2200677&oldid=2192996 Judging by this] and [[Talk:M01#Dr. Fuji's voice|this]], it's been acknowledged back in 2014.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 09:38, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
::Ah. Okay. Sorry. Shouldn't there then be something like a tooltip on Mewtwo's page to indicate that "Philip Bartlett" is just a stage name? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 09:58, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Don't think it's too much of an issue to do so.
== Troublesome user ==
Heads up. Clearly [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cheekybutthole this user] is [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Probopass_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=prev&oldid=2868297 not here to contribute]. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 03:26, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
:Never mind, {{U|Abcboy}} took care of it. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 03:41, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
== links ==
is it all right to repeat links from an above section in a lower one. and u know that internal error that was mentioned above? im still getting it. also i couldnt help noticing ur ignoring a poor man's cry for help up above. not a very nice thing to do, wouldnt u say? :) --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 14:16, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
:If something has already been linked in a section, it does not need to be linked again. It's fine to have one link per section, '''only if said link isn't directly below the previous section'''. Once every few sections is fine, but not literally the next section below it.
:The internal error issue is being looked into. There has been no updates yet on its progress.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 05:41, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
::so lets say a link keyword is in every section. you'd want it to be linked in every other section? 1st, 3rd, 5th, etc. --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 06:10, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:::Use common sense. Also, you don't have to link every time the word "Pokémon species", "Pokémon trainer", or whatever appears.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 06:21, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
==Voice Actors==
Sent you an email with a list of voice actors from Lisa Ortiz, do I have your approval?--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]] ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 16:12, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
:Those are fine to be added.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 05:45, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
== Statistic  ==
Why did you undo my edit to statistic? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 17:56, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
:You're change wasn't necessary. It was basically saying the same thing.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 03:44, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
::I changed "take effect" to "start affecting turn order", which does not mean the same thing. Speed has other effects, such as determining the base power of gyro ball and electro ball, and those other effects immediately respond to changes to speed. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 04:52, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
:::The full sentence is " will not take effect until the following turn". What you changed it to is still saying that it wont take effect until the next turn.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 05:00, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
::::What it currently says is false because it implies that changes to speed do not start affecting the power of gyro ball and electro ball until the next turn. What I changed it to is true because it does not imply that. How can they say the same thing if one is false and the other is true? Would it be better if it said, "An in-battle change to a Pokémon's Speed stat will not start affecting turn order until the following turn, but otherwise takes effect immediately"? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:49, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::If I might butt in here, if what Sumwun is saying is true (I've not seen any information whether it is or not), then there 'is' a difference between the two, and I think Sumwun's edit should be reinstated. Speed has effect on more things than just turn order, and some might react to changes sooner than others. --[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 18:00, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::Why would you assume the sentence is talking about Gyro Ball or Electro Ball? It clearly isn't. It's talking about when a Pokémon's speed gets changed due to a stat change, it won't take affect until the following turn. Gyro Ball and Electro Ball are not moves that affect the user's speed, but rely on it, it's not going to get affected by a stat changing move.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 05:48, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Before commenting on the first 2 sentences of that comment, I just wanted to tell you that the last 2 sentences [https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-834770797 are false]. I will admit that Showdown! is the most reliable battle simulator available to me, and I'm sorry if that's not reliable enough. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 06:51, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::"Simulator", hence why it isn't reliable. You can change things with a simulator.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 07:17, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::The replay was done in "Anything Goes", a standard format that does not change any battle mechanics. Do you still not trust it? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 16:38, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::No.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 16:40, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::If not a Showdown! replay, what can convince you that changes in speed can take effect immediately? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 18:03, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::Gyro Ball and Electro Ball both depend on the user's speed, right? So why would you expect that changes to the user's speed wouldn't affect those moves? Regardless of whether it "clearly isn't" talking about them as you personally see it, it's better to be precise than to rely on implicit statements. --[[User:Felthry|Felthry]] ([[User talk:Felthry|talk]]) 23:38, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
== New Devolution ==
Hello Force Fire, I am a foreigner and reader on the Bulbapedia site. I only created an account in order to discuss a possible Pokémon capable of performing a Devolution, I mean Silvally (Type: Full).
Since originally this was his original form, however, he involuted to Type: Null after Faba added a helmet to his face, slowing him down. He will only be Silvally again when he destroys the helmet, that is, if it is valid I would like some moderator on the site to add this Pokémon to the article [[Devolution]]. [[User:NanayaShiki07|NanayaShiki07]] ([[User talk:NanayaShiki07|talk]]) 20:07, 10 November 2018 (~)
:Games=/=anime. I personally don't think it counts as anything. I also don't really care, mainly because the whole story behind Silvally and Type: Null, and how the latter is just the former with a helmet. It just unnecessarily makes things confusing and messes the whole concept of evolution in the franchise. So I don't have any strong opinions about this.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 05:48, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
== N as a rival ==
Don't put a message that says "Please do not add N, as he is not a rival" on the page, If you have an argument against it then put it in the talk page! [[User:Nightfall217|Nightfall217]] ([[User talk:Nightfall217|talk]]) 23:48, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
:As an administrator I ''can'' place a hidden message telling users what not to do until a consensus has been made.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 05:48, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
== Leaf Discussion Page ==
I noticed you left a note on my userpage telling me not to delete other people's comments. I want to assure you that I have not done so, and in fact had my comments removed twice by other people when they re-formatted the page. --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 07:16, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
== Spaceworld Mainspace ==
Hello, I was wondering if we could start slowly mainspacing some Pokémon Gold and Silver beta information, as the leaked Spaceworld ROM has been around for nearly a half a year now. A lot of the interest for adding this information onto the site has slowed down, and I thought that perhaps if only a little bit of information was added, like, for example, [[User:Celadonkey/Spaceworld/Dex|a list of Pokémon]], [[User:Celadonkey/Spaceworld#Chikorita_.28Pok.C3.A9mon.29.2FBeta|one or two Pokémon articles]], or [[User:Frozen Fennec/Pokémon Gold and Silver Spaceworld Demo|some information on the gameplay]], then maybe it would spur interest and additions to the wiki. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 16:39, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
:Spaceworld stuff shouldn't be the priority right now, clearly. The staff still hasn't decided on how to handle this. Please don't think you can just move them without permission.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 16:57, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
::I wasn't going to move it without permission, that's why I asked you. And alright. Please let me know when staff has reached a decision because this is something I am very interested in helping out with --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 17:02, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
== I want to turn a redirect into an article for something else, but I don't have the writing skills. ==
I asked Chosen 5 days ago, but he never responded. I asked Glik earlier today, but unfortunately he doesn't play the game and couldn't help.
Anyway, there's a substance called R in the game Detective Pikachu, and it's a big part of the game's story. When I went to search its article, it redirects me to the Trainer Tower instead. I am definitely not able to write the article myself (I sucked at Language Arts), but I also don't want to leave the page as this redirect. What can I do? [[User:Unowninator|¿¡Unowninator?!]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 01:24, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
:Write a stub or incomplete article? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 02:33, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
::You already created a userpage it seems. You can invite others to help flesh out the article. Sadly, I've never played Detective Pikachu, so I wouldn't know much.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 05:58, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
:::Well I did ask Abcboy, as he added the plot into the game's article. Hopefully he responds. *checks edit history* Maybe I'll ask GrammarFreak01 too. Thanks for the advice. [[User:Unowninator|¿¡Unowninator?!]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 16:29, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
== [[Sea Cottage]] and [[Trophy Garden]] ==
Hi there. You recently removed information relating to the Bill's Secret Garden rumour without engaging in discussion first, as I had explicitly requested on the talk pages for those articles. I have provided four different articles regarding Bill's Secret Garden and it's mentioned on numerous fansites, so I'm not sure what further evidence you require. It's an extremely notorious rumour. --[[User:Poppy Appletree|Poppy]] [[User talk:Poppy Appletree|:3]] 13:43, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
:I was in the midst of responding on those talk pages whilst you wrote this.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 13:54, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
:: Commenting 20 minutes ''after'' the removals isn't exactly a discussion. --[[User:Poppy Appletree|Poppy]] [[User talk:Poppy Appletree|:3]] 13:57, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Now that you have hopefully had some time to cool off, can I get you to re-appraise your behaviour? Condescending comments like "learn some patience" and referring to seeking a second opinion as "spamming" staff members do not convey respect to others, and I would appreciate it if you would apologise for these comments. Additionally, I would appreciate if you would acknowledge wrong-doing in burying the list of discussion materials I provided to show the scope of the Secret Garden rumour. Whilst you claim that you were trying to figure out how to add a collapsible section, I am genuinely unsure how I would be expected to intent for something you would not do for another hour. I'd like to encourage you to be more transparent: throughout our interactions yesterday you have seemed to think that I should know what you are doing when you provided no explanation for your actions.
I'd also like you to acknowledge that jumped the gun in issuing a warning, since you started reverting pages without offering discussion, and I have been actively trying to discuss the issues raised and establish consensus with other users. (For the record, your lone opinion isn't a consensus.) Please consider the effect that such actions will have upon others; if you disregard the views of regular users, that will have a chilling effect upon editing activity. Nobody wants to have their edits reverted immediately and then be insulted by admins, and treating people that way puts them off editing.
For the record, this isn't the first time you've been insulting towards me: [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User_talk:Force_Fire/Archive_3#Reversion_of_my_edit] That was a long time ago, but it's kind of telling that you didn't actually apologise. Perhaps we can try a different resolution this time, where you apologise for your behaviour? --[[user:Poppy Appletree|Poppy]] 11:34, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
: I actually just looked through the edit chain associated with that post, and it's interesting how similar your behaviour is to that of 8 years ago: edit warring whilst insisting your opinion is correct without engaging with others who are telling you that you're wrong. It would probably be a good idea to learn to be more open to the views of others, and apologise more readily when you step on people's toes. Without resolution, bruised feelings fester into resentment, which can result in long-standing feuds. It's so much easier to just apologise and let things drop. --[[user:Poppy Appletree|Poppy]] 11:39, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
::Wanting a second opinion is fine, but going to three different staff member's talk page is too much. It comes off as you being impatient and needy. A staff member will take notice of the Sea Cottage talk page at some point and weigh in. You don't need to go to every (not literally) staff member's talk page.
::I "buried" it because the talk page was going to be too long, if anyone wants to see the source, they can expand it. Readability should be taken into account here. Having to go through a wall of links just to get to the newest comment is rather inconvenient. As for me taking an "hour" to add the expandable code, I didn't remember it. The expandable tag isn't something I've toyed around with much, the last time I did anything with it was probably with my userpage infobox.
::You also do not know how I edit the wiki. I don't just have one tab open, I have multiple tabs open, and they are usually reversions I pick out from the recent changes. I check those reversion and then go back to whatever it is that needs attention. Hence why it took 20 minutes to respond to the Sea Cottage talk page or one hour to figure out how to make the list expandable.
::As I mentioned on your talk page, you did edit war. You added back information that was reverted. I admit I got the timeline wrong since your edit war with Finnish was on the Trophy Garden page and your edit war with me was on the Sea Cottage page, but it still doesn't change the fact that you chose to revert both of us rather than go to our talk pages. And I was editing the Sea Cottage talk page when you reverted my edit, which by the way I had on a different tab and refreshed after a few minutes just in case you added it back again which you did taking more time. And I usually do that when I undo a reversion, because there have been many times in the past where a user just adds back information that was removed.
::Now, I'm not saying that you should know how I operate, because I don't usually go around revealing how I edit the wiki, but understand that just because I take a while to respond doesn't mean I'm ignoring you or stalling. I multitask. And that takes while, especially when I want to get through the thing that don't take a long time to do (i.e. check reversions) out of the way first.
::As for the past. The past is the past. It's history. Don't cling too much on that. And looking back, yes I was wrong, but I already said my reasons why I made the edit. Sure, I didn't apologize properly, but that's already 8 years too late. Things should just be let go.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 12:09, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
== TM and Movesets Table for Let's Go ==
Hiya. Could you help update [[Template:TMtable]] to accommodate for the multiple Gen 7 TMs and [[Template:Learnlist/levelVII]] for LGPE movesets? Thanks! [[User:Lanthanum|Lanthanum]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum|talk]]) 11:01, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
:Late reply. I could tweak the TMtable, if I'm able to. As for the learnlist, staff are currently discussing ways to deal with it (whether to make a spearate table specifically for Lets Go since only Gen I Pokemon would need it, or merge it with SMUSUM).--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 16:11, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
::I think Let's Go is special case and should be split. While consistency is "sacrificed", Let's Go is really different from the other main series games, and the TM table being completely different alone make merging them really confusing. I think this game is an exception we could make - it's best we add the info in as soon as possible first. Revision is still possible of course. [[User:Lanthanum|Lanthanum]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum|talk]]) 23:31, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
:::Update: The learnset table is it to be separated, Spriteit is planning on doing the learnsets from tomorrow (his time), so discuss with him if you plan on adding learnsets. As for the TMtable, a overhaul of the TM pages to be like the item pages has been brought up (and someone has a mock up on their userpage), so it (the template) will have to be put on hold for now.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 12:22, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
:::[[User:Coffee/Sandbox/TM01|Proposed TM01 userpage by Chosen]].--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 09:36, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
==Marc Thompson M21==
Sent you an email containing a screenshot of Marc Thompson's email reply to who he voices in [[M21]] for your approval.--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]] ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 17:59, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
:That's fine by me.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 09:36, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
== Berry Template update ==
With revising the TM template and the introduction of new berry varieties, I think its time the Berry pages and templates could use some updating. Here are some things I think we can have changed/included:
* Adding buy and sell value for berries
* Removing descriptions/flavor text from infobox (to make it less cluttered) and placing it in the page ala Items (so we don't have to keep using the sup/ template)
* Revising the locations box to incorporate the gameabbrev template for less words ala Items
* A new Varieties section so we can place stuff like Golden Razz and Nanab there, with subsequent GO and Let's Go info
On an unrelated note, I've created new split Fossil pages on my userspace that I think would make the info more consistent with the current direction of templates and thus easier to read. I hope you check 'em out as well. [[User:Lanthanum|Lanthanum]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum|talk]]) 21:05, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
:I also agree that the Berry template needs work, and I think that there are some userpages floating around with updated versions of the template. However, rather than a completely new template, I think the format used on the updated item pages (such as [[Potion]]) would be much simpler/better (since Berries are items as well). With this, the Effect and Bag/tag descriptions can be moved out from the infobox, making it less cluttered, but keeping the rest there instead. I also prefer the Locations template used on the general item pages, over the Berry locations template. --[[User:Wowy|<span style="color:#AAAAFF">'''Wowy'''</span>]][[User talk:Wowy|<sub style="color:#B69E00;">'''(토크)'''</sub>]] 23:12, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
::[[User:SnorlaxMonster/ItemInfobox/Razz Berry|SnorlaxMonster has suggested an overhaul of the berry articles]].--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 04:35, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
:::That looks great! Is there anything that needs to be done that's preventing this from pushing through? [[User:Lanthanum|Lanthanum]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum|talk]]) 05:06, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
==Viren English VA==
Sent you a screenshot of an email from Lisa Ortiz for your approval regarding Viren's English voice--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]] ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 22:29, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
:That's good to go.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 04:23, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
==Wakana Kingyo==
Was wondering if [[User:BigDocFan/Wakana Kingyo]] warrants being mainspaced?--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]] ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 12:37, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
:She fits the first criteria, so it's fine to be mainspaced.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 12:41, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
==An Apology==
I just noticed that you protected the TMtable Template. I had noticed that the TMs for Pikachu & Eevee weren't listed yet and I just wanted to make sure that the information for the games were listed on the TM pages. I just want apologize if I shouldn't have edited the template. [[User:Sinjoh|Sinjoh]] ([[User talk:Sinjoh|talk]]) 22:11, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
==Harrychips8==
I wish to report Harrychips8 for making pointless edits to pages that involve events that didn't happen.--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]] ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 22:12, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
== Something I discovered in Wikipedia regarding documentation best practices for protected templates ==
Hello Mr. Admin,
I was reading {{wp|Wikipedia:Protection policy#Protection of templates}} and found out they have some sort of hybrid practice merging template protection with unprotected documentation. Wikipedia uses a meta-template called [[wp:Wikipedia:Template documentation|<nowiki>{{documentation}}</nowiki>]] that allows a template to have documentation transcluded from a "/doc" subpage, rather than written in the template page itself. This would allow a template to be fully protected (so that only admins can edit it during server maintenance) while still having an unprotected documentation subpage that almost anyone can edit as needed (without having to edit the template page itself).
I do not know if Bulbapedia has the <nowiki>{{documentation}}</nowiki> meta-template programmed in its software, but if it had, it would be a great improvement over the current situation where:
* sometimes one cannot supply documentation to a template page because it is protected ''(for obvious reasons)''
* one supplies documentation to an unprotected template but also inadvertently edits the template itself (by editing outside the designated &lt;noinclude&gt; area), potentially resulting in server stress if the template happens to be a very popular one among users ''(yes, I know, I had done that twice until you scolded me in my talk page, sorry about that)''
Incorporating <nowiki>{{documentation}}</nowiki> into Bulbapedia could allow high-traffic templates to remain protected while allowing autoconfirmed users like me to freely provide usage documentation to them by creating or editing the appropriate, unprotected "/doc" subpages and letting <nowiki>{{documentation}}</nowiki> automatically transclude the guides into the protected template pages. This is Wikipedia’s current best practice, and it should be Bulbapedia’s best practice too. BTW, [[WikiDex]], the Spanish arm of [[Encyclopædiæ Pokémonis]], has a similarly-named meta-template, [[:es:Plantilla:Uso de plantilla|<nowiki>{{uso de plantilla}}</nowiki>]], that does basically the same thing.
This could be done next time Bulbapedia needs to undergo server maintenance or software update (or any other reason that would temporarily require the server to go offline, hopefully not because of a reckless editor).
Thankee!
[[User:SilSinn9801|--SilSinn (Pokémon Sun TID: 768426&#59; Pokémon Ultra Moon TID: 123446)]] ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 06:15, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
:Anyone can freely make a documentation on the talk page if they wanted to, no need for a separate thing. We do have separate documentation pages for the bigger templates, they're mostly on project pages or the manual of style. For smaller ones like user tags, having it on the tag page itself or its talk page is fine. Though I wouldn't mind an article that documents usertag usage, might create it in my userspace at some point.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 07:32, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
==Bewear Rescues==
Although I created this page for fun, I was wondering if [[User:BigDocFan/Bewear Rescues]] might become a mainspace article similar to Clemont's inventions?--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]] ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 15:05, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
:I thinks that's fine for an article, since we do have similar pages. Do ask for second opinions, though.
== Sk8erPrince's edit warring ==
Hello, it seems Sk8erPrince doesn't quite want to heed your message and once again reverted a user who had reverted him in [[BW116|this article]], also causing Singaporean to engage. They're also both using the summary as a means to communicate about matters not concerning content of article itself. I don't know whether or not this warrants an admin's action, but just wanted to notify you in case it does. [[User:Kikugi|Kikugi]] ([[User talk:Kikugi|talk]]) 12:26, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
:If they continue or edit war on another article, then I'll give them a word. They seem to have stopped now.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 07:32, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
== If underleveled trivia is not notable... ==
...then why is it about Lance's Dragonite ? Why do I see trivias about his Dragonite being underleveled under Lv.55 ? -- [[User talk:Braviapert|<span style="color:teal">Bravi</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Braviapert|<span style="color:#2F4F4F">apert</span>]] 12:14, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
:If you see similar trivia, remove it.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 12:46, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
::Why remove it ? It has been there since I don't know how long, and it just has to be removed now ? -- [[User talk:Braviapert|<span style="color:teal">Bravi</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Braviapert|<span style="color:#2F4F4F">apert</span>]] 13:11, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
:::Because it's not notable. That trivia may have been overlooked or added back before trivia notability became so strict.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 13:39, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
==Mainspace==
Was wondering if you could comment on [[User:BigDocFan/Pikipek Line (anime)]] looks in regards to it being mainspaced?--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]] ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 11:55, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
:I've also been working on several anime related pages, hoping that they could be mainspaced. All the links are on my user page. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. [[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 08:52, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
::I think the "Pikipek line" article should be renamed something else, feels a little clumsy of a title and Rowlet isn't a Pikipek. Pardescan, I'll look through your userpages at some point, there's quite a bit to look through.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 12:10, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
:::Any suggestions on a better name? Rowlet's Foster Family perhaps?--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]] ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 12:18, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
::::Thank you ForceFire. As for you BigDocFan, perhaps the page could be called "Toucannon's flock {anime}" because Toucannon is the leader.[[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 23:16, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
:::::Thanks for the suggestion PardescanSlowbro, certainly sounds better than my own two suggestions--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]] ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 10:11, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
{{indent}}After looking through the articles, this is what I think is and isn't notable (note, this '''DOES NOT''' mean that you can move the notable ones into the mainspace. Repeat, '''DOES NOT''' mean you can move the notable ones into the mainspace).
:Notable:
::[[User:PardescanSlowbro/Deoxys (anime)]]
::[[User:PardescanSlowbro/Malamar (anime)]]
::[[User:PardescanSlowbro/Light trio (anime)]]
:Not notable:
::[[User:PardescanSlowbro/Loudred (anime)]] <-- this is a definite NO
::[[User:PardescanSlowbro/Lugia (anime)]]
::[[User:PardescanSlowbro/Spoink (anime)]] <-- this is a definite NO
::[[User:PardescanSlowbro/Suicune (anime)]]
::[[User:PardescanSlowbro/Weather trio (anime)]]
::[[User:PardescanSlowbro/Wynaut (anime)]]
::[[User:PardescanSlowbro/Groudon (anime)]] <-- this is a definite NO
::[[User:PardescanSlowbro/Hippopotas (anime)]] <-- this is a definite NO
::[[User:PardescanSlowbro/Kyogre (anime)]] <-- this is a definite NO
Again, does '''NOT''' mean you can move the notable ones into the mainspace, please wait until you get the all clear. Regarding ultra Beasts, a collective "Ultra Beasts (anime)" has been suggested, if you want to start on that in your userspace, feel free.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 06:46, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
:::Thanks for the update, and duly noted, I'll wait for an administrator to move the selected pages into the mainspace. For those marked not notable, I'm guessing it is their infrequent appearances and minimal impact on an episodes plot? I can at least use the information to update the [[Recurring wild Pokémon in the anime]] page. I'd be more than happy to start working on an "Ultra Beasts (anime)" page on my userspace. Thank you again. [[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 07:54, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
::::I noticed BigDocFan already started on an Ultra Beasts (anime) page a while back, which can be found [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User:BigDocFan/Ultra_Beasts_(anime) here]. It currently only contains Nihilego, but it might be handier to just work from one page. <span style="font-family:Arial Black"><span style="color:Red">☼ Blazing</span>[[User talk:Blazingfist|<span style="color:red">Fist ☼</span>]]</span> 15:07, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
:::::Its currently a work in progress page that I'm hoping other members will be kind to help, already mentioned it to PardescanSlowbro--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]] ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 15:17, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
{{indent}}The ones I've marked as unnotable is because they didn't do much and their articles are very, very short. If everything they've done can be summed up in one paragraph, then they're not notable. Quality over quantity.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 03:46, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
:Okay. I've since added the information from the pages marked as not notable, except for the Weather trio anime page, on to the [[recurring wild Pokémon in the anime]] page. As for the Lugia (anime) page, given that it also appeared in the manga, like [[Silver (Lugia)|Silver]], would that change its status to notable? And because the Weather trio (anime) page is actually about three characters, would that warrant it having its own page?[[User:PardescanSlowbro|PardescanSlowbro]] ([[User talk:PardescanSlowbro|talk]]) 03:32, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
== Who's That Pokémon Narration ==
The episode focuses on Ash, Sophocles, and Lillie. Therefore they should be narrating the Who's That Pokémon segment in shrunken voices. From, Sean 01:29, 18 December 2018 (UTC) {{unsigned|PokéSean}}
:Who knows. But it's definitely not an error.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 06:47, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
I have a theory that the person who is the main focus gets to narrate WTPKN since the SM series. Kiawe, Lana, and Mallow did find the others so they are the main focus. Maybe Ash, Lillie, and Sophocles did narrate in shrunken voices but it was hard to hear. SM078 probably just focus on the [[Ultra Guardians]]. From, Sean 01:07, 19 December 2018 (UTC) {{unsigned|PokéSean}}
:That's speculation. It's simply not an error.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 05:40, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
== Vandals ==
Hey! I just wanted to alert you to the presence of two vandals: {{user|Redrockboy}} and {{user|Fireball52}}. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 19:31, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
:The latter has been dealt with. The former I'll leave alone, since they haven't made any other edits.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 03:45, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
::Okay, thank you. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 02:47, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
== Templates for superscripted † and ‡ ==
I recently created templates for superscripted daggers † and ‡: [[Template:†]], [[Template:††]], and [[Template:‡]]. Since these two characters are almost always used in Bulbapedia in superscript form <nowiki><sup>†</sup> <sup>††</sup> <sup>‡</sup></nowiki> (and each instance takes 14 to 17 bytes in UTF-8), there is enough rationale for creating the templates, whose transclusions <nowiki>{{†}} {{††}} {{‡}}</nowiki> take up only 7 to 10 bytes each. Replacing every instance of <nowiki><sup>†</sup> <sup>††</sup> <sup>‡</sup></nowiki> with <nowiki>{{†}} {{††}} {{‡}}</nowiki> in the articles would result in shorter coding (desirable since shorter coding results in fewer bytes being eaten up from the server’s hard disks) and speedier page loading.
The only question remaining would be how to categorize such templates before applying the protection tag to them (given that they will be heavily used, and given that they don’t need any documentation since they take no arguments, template protection is heavily warranted). [[User:SilSinn9801|--SilSinn (Pokémon Sun TID: 768426&#59; Pokémon Ultra Moon TID: 123446)]] ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 06:07, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
And I see you deleted them. Why? Didn’t you get the benefits of typing less code through templates? Isn’t that the purpose of templates? Rather than typing <nowiki><sup>†</sup> <sup>††</sup> <sup>‡</sup></nowiki> in the code which wastes a lot of bytes, I would prefer typing <nowiki>{{†}} {{††}} {{‡}}</nowiki> for the same purpose (saving a lot of bytes). [[User:SilSinn9801|--SilSinn (Pokémon Sun TID: 768426&#59; Pokémon Ultra Moon TID: 123446)]] ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 06:10, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
:As I said on your talk page, there's no need for those as they're already on the character palette below the edit box. Also, the amount of bytes it takes up is miniscule compared to other bigger templates, it's not that big of a deal.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 06:13, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
::FYI, I don’t use the character palette, I just type their Alt+ codes instead (much easier for me and other keyboard-shortcut-savvy users, and no, I don’t plan to create a usertag for keyboard-savvy users, I would rather spend my energies on other more useful things). [[User:SilSinn9801|--SilSinn (Pokémon Sun TID: 768426&#59; Pokémon Ultra Moon TID: 123446)]] ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 06:18, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
== How do I let other users edit a subpage in my userspace? ==
I had recently started drafting an article page, [[User:SilSinn9801/List of common phrases from fortune-teller tents (Festival Plaza) in other languages]], in my userspace. Even though it resides in my userspace, I want to let other users make improvements to it (it does indeed need improvements, like changing colors and splitting the whole table into seven tables according to the fortune-teller tents providing such common phrases).
How do I let other users edit this subpage, until I deem it worthy of being moved into the mainspace? --[[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn]] (TIDs: 768426<b><sup style="color:#F1912B">S</sup></b>, 123446<b><sup style="color:#226DB5">UM</sup></b>) ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 06:52, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
:You can simply let other users know about it on their talk pages, and they will edit them if they want to. Regarding the last bit you said, that's not your call to make. A staff member will deem it notable and worthy to move to the mainspace.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 02:40, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
==More Mainspace==
Was wondering if you could confirm if [[User:BigDocFan/Ben Phillips]] and [[User:Super10ZX/Rosie Reyes]] were notable enough and ready to be mainspaced?--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]] ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 08:45, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
:I'd like you to look at the notability requirements listed [[Bulbapedia:Project_VA|here]] and judge for yourself (fwiw, they're both notable according to the requirements). I'd like to think that you would be more confident in figuring out what's notable and what isn't with your experience.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 04:52, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
::I think my problem is a lack of confidence, hence my checking with admin if they are notable enough or not. Went to do Rosie Reyes but got ''You do not have permission to move this page, for the following reason:
''A page of that name already exists, or the name you have chosen is not valid. Please choose another name.''--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]] ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 21:50, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
:::Ah, yeah the redirect exists. I've moved the article since it requires deleting the existing one. While you should always ask an admin about moving an article, my concern was more on wanting you to feel more confident in knowing what is notable considering that you've been here for a while.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 03:22, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
:Decided to take the initiative and went to mainspace [[User:BigDocFan/Vic Mignogna]] but encountered the same problem when I went to do Rosie Reyes--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]] ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 19:08, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
::Done.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 03:09, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
== Another vandal ==
We've got another vandal on our hands: {{user|GusMccarter3}}. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 01:15, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
== yo ==
should safari balls be listed under the items section. --[[User:EternalDragonX|EternalDragonX]] ([[User talk:EternalDragonX|talk]]) 21:55, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
== Trying to hide rejected table in a talk page via wikicode ==
I am trying to hide (via wikicode) a rejected prototype Fashion items table in [[Talk:Fashion item#USUM fashion items]] but cannot seem to get it to hide by default. On Wikipedia, I can do so by putting whatever I want to hide inside a table with <code>class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"</code>, but that does not seem to work here on Bulbapedia. I tried using <code>class="expandable"</code> (as per your [[User:Force Fire/Infobox|Infobox template]]), but again I don’t get to hide the table by default. Any help on doing this? --[[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn]] (TIDs: 768426<b><sup style="color:#F1912B">S</sup></b>, 123446<b><sup style="color:#226DB5">UM</sup></b>) ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 19:37, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
:If it's not needed, then just remove it. Why hide it? Also, please don't clog up the talk page with not one but ''two'' giant templates. Place them on a userpage instead and link to it. Having it on the talk page just takes up way too much space.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 04:52, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
::The only reason I put two or three sample tables on that talk page was to illustrate the proposed changes, because I don’t think Tiddlywinks takes his/her time to inspect other people’s user subpages, even if I put a link to such a subpage. But well, I see you removed them altogether. I think it would have been better to keep the tables, but with fewer item rows (only to illustrate the changed header and footer with one or two representative item rows rather than the whole rowset).
::As for the rejected table (which I wanted to either hide or remove): now that it was fully removed, I want to formally request the deletion of these four now-unneeded draft templates used only for that rejected table (I have no use for them, but I have no credentials for deleting pages):
::* [[User:SilSinn9801/UFashion/header]]
::* [[User:SilSinn9801/UFashion/s]]
::* [[User:SilSinn9801/UFashion/middle]]
::* [[User:SilSinn9801/UFashion/footer]]
::--[[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn]] (TIDs: 768426<b><sup style="color:#F1912B">S</sup></b>, 123446<b><sup style="color:#226DB5">UM</sup></b>) ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 05:21, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
:::They were just simply too big, hence why I decided to just outright remove them. TiddlyWinks, or any other staff member, will click on the link to check the template out, no need to worry about it being ignored. I've deleted the userpages as well.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 05:39, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
::::Thankee for the deletions! As a side question: why isn’t a user allowed to delete his/her own user subpages on his/her own? --[[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn]] (TIDs: 768426<b><sup style="color:#F1912B">S</sup></b>, 123446<b><sup style="color:#226DB5">UM</sup></b>) ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 05:42, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
:::::Deletion powers are things only staff has. If users were given the option to delete userpages, then a user could delete someone else's userpage out of spite.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 06:01, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
== Cyndaquil ==
Look, all I'm saying is that Cyndaquil is literally called the "Fire Mouse Pokémon." The GAME CREATORS THEMSELVES literally said this thing is a mouse. {{unsigned|Swil Phift}}
:I know where you're getting at. But the fact of the matter is, Cyndaquill looks nothing like a mouse. It's category means nothing. --[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 03:25, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
By that logic, Pikachu isn't a mouse either, considering that, like Cyndaquil, its resemblance to a mouse is also very vague. [[User:Swil Phift|Swil Phift]] ([[User talk:Swil Phift|talk]]) 03:28, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
:Ears, long tail, name being based off the onomatopoeia of a mouse squeaking, also we've got official confirmation that it is based on a mouse. Pikachu has more going for it in the mouse department than Cyndaquil.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 03:43, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
==Hiker Trio==
Was wondering the recurring hikers from sun and moon are worthy of receiving their own character page, have created [[User:BigDocFan/Hiker Trio (Alola)|one]] for mainspacing if they are--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]] ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 16:41, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
:Since they've only done something major in one of their two episodes, I'd say wait until any future appearances and see how much they impact the plot.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 03:09, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
::Fair enough--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]] ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 10:00, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
== Master Trainer references ==
I highly doubt those references are just coincidences. It'd be very unlikely for those naming patterns to occur at random. What's wrong with mentioning them on that page? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 10:10, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
:What do those Simpsons characters have to do with bird keeping or birds? What does Gamer Grumps have to do with ghosts? What does Cubone and Marowak have to do with Castlevania? Just having names that are the same isn't enough. Otherwise it's speculation to say that they are clear cut references (especially the Gamer Grumps one, like really?). This also extends to the Sesame street trivia on Route 19, what does Elmo have to do with swimming, or Bert and Ernie with bird keeping? We can't have trivia stating that things are references solely because of their names. Otherwise we'd have users going around saying a certain group of trainers on a route is a reference to some obscure tv show.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 10:38, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
::You're failing to see the point. It's not always about the Trainer classes or their Pokémon, but that they have something in common: All the Simpsons references are Bird Keepers. All the Gastly line Trainers are Psychics (and are all found in the same location), plus the Game Grumps have a history with Gengar. It's a reference if the characters share a Trainer class and/or area they're found in. I hope you understood my point. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 12:05, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
:::The only thing they have in common are the names. Anyone can pick out random group of trainers and say that they are a reference to some obscure show that no one knows. What do the Simpson characters have to do with bird keeping? Neither of those characters do anything remotely related to birds. It's a coincidence if they share a trainer class and are found in the same area, it also has nothing to do with what they are allegedly referring to.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 12:26, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
::::That's what I keep trying to tell you. The Trainer classes aren't '''supposed''' to represent what these characters are in their respective shows. They're only meant to make groups out of them and make the reference work. And in case of the HG/SS Sesame Street reference, the fact that all the Trainers with the reference names are in the same area serves the same purpose. Do we need some other admin to give their opinion on the matter to solve this debate? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 14:45, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
:::::Then it's a coincidence, not a reference.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 14:56, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
::::::Honestly? You consider naming multiple characters from a single show/whatever in a single class or area a coincidence? I consider this a rare case of me being disappointed by your judgment. I'm not giving up on this. It indeed seems like we'll need the opinion of another admin to settle this. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 15:51, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
:::::::If we allow references based off a group of trainers that just so happens to share the same name as characters in a tv show, then other users will try to say another group of trainers share the same name as some characters from some obscure tv show. That's what I'm trying to prevent by being hard on this. I don't think just having the same name and being in one area is solid enough, it's flimsy and most likely coincidental.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 16:10, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
== Yet another vandal ==
{{user|Blankrealmz}} is running rampant on the {{p|Shinx}} article. Just so you know. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 05:19, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
:Dealt with.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 05:51, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
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