Talk:Nacli (Pokémon): Difference between revisions

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Boblers

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-May I ask why the Nacli line has its very apparent video game(s) reference removed from it's  Origins section? It is clearly based on a Super Mario mushroom combined with a mushroom rock. As for the other two, they are based on the Minecraft aesthetic. This is not up for debate, it's simply what their designs are inspired by. Not including this vital information looks less like an attempt to be "neutral" and more like an attempt to ignore the elephant in the room. It's almost as if the info was purposely removed to annoy and throw off readers lol. Seriously, no favors are being done here by not including that information. This is especially unacceptable because Probopass DOES mention the Super Mario Series in it's Origin's section. This is Bulbapedia, not the Pokemon Wiki.
+May I ask why the Nacli line has its very apparent video game(s) reference removed from it's  Origins section? It is clearly based on a Super Mario mushroom combined with a mushroom rock. As for the other two, they are based on the Minecraft aesthetic. This is not up for debate, it's simply what their designs are inspired by. Not including this vital information looks less like an attempt to be "neutral" and more like an attempt to ignore the elephant in the room. It's almost as if the info was purposely removed to annoy and throw off readers lol. Seriously, no favors are being done here by not including that information. This is especially unacceptable because Probopass DOES mention the Super Mario Series in it's Origin's section. This is Bulbapedia, not the Pokemon Wiki. {{unsigned|Echo&TheBunearymen}}
+:Standard policy, basically. Bulbapedia is a site to document things, we do not misrepresent fanon or speculation as official. That's why Origin sections have to use those weird "may be"/"seems to be" kind of languages. That's also why we do not say that Pokémon designs reference other fictional characters or whatever, especially copyrighted ones. Franchises and general works are fine, i think the mods have loosened up on that after the whole Lokix debacle; but generally we do not want Bulbapedia to imply that a Pokémon's design is a copy of or inspired by another copyrighted character. Unless it is explicitly stated by the designer, of course, in which case we can go ahead and cite them (eg. {{p|Vanilluxe}}'s page where [[James Turner]] talked about Stay Puft as an inspiration).
+:(Also, the page for {{p|Probopass}} does not mention Mario at all in the Origin section, so i frankly have no idea what you're talking about.)
+:Btw, it's worth mentioning that the designer of the Nacli line, [[Hitoshi Ariga]], explicitly avoided answering any tweets replying to his Nacli design announcement on Twitter, asking if he designed them after Mario or Minecraft or whatever. He just replied "no, this is just salt rock and sedimentary rock" over and over — at least until he got fed up and turned off replies for that announcement tweet.
+:[[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 19:54, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
+Yeah because you recently just removed it so that you can claim that I don't know what I'm talking about lol. You really think it's a total coincidence that it's just based on a mushroom rock while bearing a striking resemblance to the Super Mushroom to make a visual pun? C'mon now lmao. Not only that but Naclstack's model is practically identical to the farm animal models used in Minecraft. You're just tip-toeing around the obvious at this point.{{unsigned|Echo&TheBunearymen}}
+:Do you not know [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Probopass_(Pokémon)&action=history how to check a page's history], or are you just gonna blame me for things i did not do (like editing the page for Probopass when the history for that page clearly shows i haven't done so since September)? And then ignore all the other points i made afterward? [[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 20:29, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
+:To be fair i kinda don't really care if you ignore my arguments, but i draw the line at accusing me of doing things i did not do. I mean, you have never edited the Probopass page either. [[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 20:31, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
+::All the points Anza said, and the designer has literally put it to bed regarding Nacli and it's evolutionary line being based off video game characters, they refuse to toy with that theory and just said it's salt and sedimentary rocks. End of.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#44BAE5">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#85D2EE">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#DA7D99">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#E7ABBD">ire</span>]] 01:54, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
+:::I think the user was referring to [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Probopass_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&oldid=2766614 this] old revision of the Probopass page, which has since been reverted. As stated above, I would have to agree that the Minecraft comparison is a complete coincidence, but Nintendo references its other properties so often that I think we should make an exception for other Nintendo properties. And the Super Mushroom is an item, not a character. But rules are rules, and the rules say no copyrighted stuff--and apparently, that includes other Nintendo properties. [[User:Buzzfan120|Buzzfan120]] ([[User talk:Buzzfan120|talk]]) 02:10, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
+::::Wow that is a pretty old edit. Glad that got undone though, lmao. Hell of a stretch if i've ever seen one.
+::::But also, i still don't know about the super mushroom thing. Like, i get it, it looks kinda similar, but they don't really have much else in common other than that superficial similar look? It's not like Nacli can give you powerups or spawn out of boxes or anything.
+::::Also this is admittedly pretty weak but i could argue that maybe the "Super Mushroom" look might be a coincidence. Like, if your design pitch is "it's a salt cube embedded in a rock that scrapes salt on the ground as it drags itself along the floor", of course you would put the salt cube on the bottom, and then the rock part on top. And you would make the rock look rounded and rugged to contrast the perfectly smooth salt cube. Bam, by sheer coincidence you end up making it look similar to a Mario mushroom. (that's how i think the thought process behind the design would probably go, anyway).
+::::[[User:Anzasquiddles|Anzasquiddles]] ([[User talk:Anzasquiddles|talk]]) 02:26, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
+:::::Pokémon and Mario are both owned by Nintendo. Nintendo isn't going to get in trouble for referencing one of its own properties. They do it all the time. That's why I think we should be allowed to mention other Nintendo properties. (However, I would have to agree that comparing Probopass' design to Mario is way too much of a stretch.) [[User:Buzzfan120|Buzzfan120]] ([[User talk:Buzzfan120|talk]]) 03:35, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
+{{indent}}Regarding the Minecraft thing, Naclstack's origin section currently says it may be inspired by voxel artwork. This is a generic term for the art style Minecraft uses, so it adheres to the rules. It's also more accurate honestly - it's not like Minecraft invented voxels, and they're certainly not the only piece of media that uses that sort of art style (look at [[Pokémon Quest]], for instance) --[[User:Boblers|Boblers]] ([[User talk:Boblers|talk]]) 14:46, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 == Snails? ==
 I'm looking at Nacli, and it sort of looks like a snail. Could this be another possible origin? [[User:Power-Point Panpour|Power-Point Panpour]] ([[User talk:Power-Point Panpour|talk]]) 04:43, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
+:No.{{unsigned|Echo&TheBunearymen}}
+::This might have some merit, I think. Nacli travels by sliding along the ground, and it leaves a trail, both traits similar to snails. There's some potential irony there too, since salt generally has adverse effects on snails. --[[User:Boblers|Boblers]] ([[User talk:Boblers|talk]]) 21:20, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
+:::Eh it's a fun fan theory but seems like a stretch otherwise. [[User:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><font color="F34134">'''Land'''</font>]][[User talk:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><small><font color="8334B7">'''fish7'''</font></small></span></span>]] 23:08, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
+::::Looks nothing like a snail...--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#44BAE5">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#85D2EE">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#DA7D99">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#E7ABBD">ire</span>]] 01:54, 19 January 2023 (UTC)