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Talk:Shellder (Pokémon): Difference between revisions
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== Edit request == | == Edit request == | ||
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Shellder can learn every move with shell in its name? [[User:Meearaimeng|Meearaimeng]] 12:10, 17 January 2011 (UTC) | Shellder can learn every move with shell in its name? [[User:Meearaimeng|Meearaimeng]] 12:10, 17 January 2011 (UTC) | ||
:Because there is {{m|Razor Shell|only}} {{m|Shell Smash|two}}, it's not notable.----'''''無限の知性''''' ◎ [[User:Dennou Zenshi|<font color="#BF0B17">ＤＥＮＮＯＵ</font>]]'''[[Special:Random|◆]]'''[[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|<font color="#1250A6">ＺＥＮＳＨＩ</font>]] 14:48, 17 January 2011 (UTC) | |||
::Also, neither has an English name yet either. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 14:53, 17 January 2011 (UTC) | |||
But what about if we count its move effect like clamp and withdraw there also show shell effect which shellder can use all of it[[User:Meearaimeng|Meearaimeng]] 03:04, 22 January 2011 (UTC) | |||
:No, because there are other water type Pokemon than just Shellder capable of learning it. It's not really a signature move of it either. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 03:16, 22 January 2011 (UTC) | |||
== Leech like properties. == | |||
pulled from the article | |||
Its parasitic relationship to Slowpoke may be inspired by leeches. Interesting enough, Slowbro is known as the Hermit Crab Pokémon and many real-world parasites, including leeches, often target crabs. Also despite many common misconceptions, most leeches are not just parasites but also predators. Leech(es should stay leeches sorry) often hunt small invertebrates, which they then devour whole. This can explain why instead of merely attaching itself to Slowpoke's flesh, they instead attempt to bite onto and even consume the head or tail of the host Slowpoke. | |||
Ok, I can cite right now that the Eelektrik articles lists the leech a possibility with no more "evidence" then shellder. Pokémon are not cut and dry, and unless we interrogate the Game Freak staff, we likely won't know for sure which Pokémon are based on what, if any plant or animal. We had this same problem on the Chestnaught article with people saying it can't be based off any animals other than hedgehogs just because that is what Chestpin is based on. [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 10:22, 19 January 2014 (UTC) | |||
:Where is the evidence that Shellder is attempting to consume Slowpoke instead of merely latching on, though? I'm sorry, but to me merely latching on to something and not letting go does not describe leech-like properties. Leeches are worm-like creatures that suck blood, while Shellder is clam-like and has been stated to each scraps of Slowbro's meals. Shellder has a symbiotic relationship with its host, while most leeches certainly do not. Eelektrik,on the other hand, has the serpentine leech shape, jaw shape, and behavior to an extent. I'm not going to sit here and say that Shellder cannot possibly be based on a leech, but that the evidence is really weak and hazy, and therefore very unlikely. Not everything that latches onto something else is a leech, there are many other kinds of parasites - including a clam with a parasitic lifestage. The wording of this is also somewhat poor. "Interestingly" is an opinion, and really shouldn't be here. And most of the evidence after that is very circumstantial and a little speculative, since as I said there's no evidence that Shellder is trying to ''consume'' Slowpoke. If we want to include leeches, it should be based on what evidence we do have. Which would just be the parasitic relationship, or "Its parasitic relationship to Slowpoke may be inspired by leeches" and ''possibly'' "This is also supported by its beneficial toxins". Since some leeches do produce a toxin in their saliva that is useful to the host. [[User:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#9F00C5">Crystal</span>]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#FF00FF">Talian</span>]] 19:13, 19 January 2014 (UTC) | |||
:: I don't know why you wrote that message in the edit summary, the venom thing and the leech thing were two separate things entirely. Plus I had posted on your talk page to explain the reasoning for the edit, after the edit... so telling me to wait for a response was a little too late in that regard. Still, let me address everything here on this talk page. | |||
:: Shellder gains the Jaw shape of a leech, albeit while in a shell. As for the trying to consume part, I am not sure if you have access to any of the 3D games, but watch Slowbro and the shellder in Stadium and more recent XY's Pokémon-Amie. In stadium the shellder occasionally chomps down hard, causing the slowbro to jolt up in pain. I believe this is also present in Snap as well, where Slowbro is tormented by the Shellder's Malicious chomps shortly after evolving. In Pokémon-Amie, it also does a chewing motion, which, although this doesn't result in the same jolt as Stadium/Snap animated, it still shows it has the ability to chew on its host. Still, as I said in stadium/snap it was much more violent/comedic looking. Even if it doesn't want to Fully consume the host in some way, it still illustrates behaviors that make it seem likely. | |||
:: Now for the most part, most of the things you are calling into question were pieces added to the leech thing which were only recently added by myself. The part about leeches, parasites and crabs was up for months before I added a little more body to it based on research on leeches and learning they are more than parasites but also predators that prey on invertebrates. | |||
:: Also, I don't believe I was the one who added the "Interestingly enough" part to that description, that really isn't my flair to typically add things like that. Even if it was me, that only means it needs better wording so that it doesn't seem to imply opinion. Depending on how you read context, anything could be an opinion. | |||
:: Not everything is black and white, cut and dry. People view leeches as parasites, but that is only one side of a multi-sided story. People think maggots are disgusting, but they are quite beneficial. You can have a festering wound, put maggots into it and they will clean it better then most modern day medicines without the risk of something becoming a resistant strain. Its all in the matter of perception, humans cast judgement onto things and decide its the law, but scratch beneath the surface and you can find details you wouldn't normally comprehend in a certain fashion. The word Symbiotic is thrown around a lot with these two, but at the end of the day Shellder is still refereed to as a parasite. | |||
::: As for the Venom side of things, You seem to be misunderstanding the context of Slowking's dexes. | |||
:::Slowking Pokédex Entry: | |||
:::*Silver: '''When''' its head was bitten, toxins entered '''Slowpoke's head''' and unlocked an extraordinary power. | |||
:::*PDPt: '''Being bitten''' by Shellder gave it intelligence comparable to that of award-winning scientists. | |||
::: The Dex says "Slowpoke's head" not Slowking. If it was Slowking's head then the shellder would already be in its spiraled form. | |||
::: You are stating that Shellder is in its Spiral Shelled state when this happens. No, It is regular Shellder until the Evolution. It bites onto Slowpoke's head as a regular Shellder, Venom surges into Slowpoke's brain, it unlocks the great power and then they evolve. Afterwards, the Shellder's shell becomes spiraled and just like a bee stinger left to itself will keep pumping venom long after the sting and the bee's death, Shellder keeps chomping down and releasing venom, especially when Slowking yawns. | |||
::: The radioactive/bio-engineered spider that bites Peter Parker, gave him his powers and allowed him to become Spider Man was not radioactive/bio-engineered because it bit Peter, that is what it was beforehand. [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 00:00, 20 January 2014 (UTC) | |||
::::No, not everything is black and white. But we must have good reasoning for adding something to origins with good basis, otherwise a million things can be added. If you looked at the page, leeches are listed with all the basis we have. Anything additional is really too speculative. Chewing =/= consuming. Dogs chew on chew toys without eating them. I think what's there now is a fair enough compromise. | |||
::::As for the venom, I stand firmly on saying that there it should not be changed. Regardless of when or where Shellder has the venom, there's is no evidence that it uses it anywhere but on Slowpoke. I understand the dex entries perfectly fine. They say the Slowpoke is injected with venom. They ''do not'' say that Shellder hunts with venom nor that it is used on any other species of Pokemon. Just that it injects Slowpoke. [[User:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#9F00C5">Crystal</span>]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#FF00FF">Talian</span>]] 03:55, 20 January 2014 (UTC) | |||
Upon unrelated research on if ticks and mosquitoes were parasites, I have discovered by definition Parasitism is non-symbiotic. This is a complete contrast to the relationship between Shellder and Slowpoke, who have historically been classified as both symbiotic and beneficial to both parties involved. So in the mean time I have hidden the leech part until it can be decided/figured out if parasitic is the right word. | |||
Although I've hidden it in the mean time, I can admit this seems to be the rock that will sink the leech thing altogether. But it should still be discussed so that no possibilities are completely off the table without certainty.[[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 16:54, 25 January 2014 (UTC) | |||
==Anime Pokédex Entries== | |||
Says to visit the pages of Slowbro and Slowking for Pokédex entries of Shellder. But when a person visits either of those pages, they will find what I found, that the anime pokédex for either Slowbro or Slowking says nothing about Shellder whatsoever. The anime pokédex entry section should be removed as what it currently says is inaccurate. [[User:DarienLeonhart|DarienLeonhart]] ([[User talk:DarienLeonhart|talk]]) 04:23, 18 May 2014 (UTC) | |||
==Egg moves== | |||
Missing Bubble Beam as Egg Moves {{unsigned|Erwincole}} | |||
== Biology section == | |||
I noticed how long the Biology section is for Shellder, when compared to other Pokémon, however it's striking how it goes to such great lengths to describe the anime-only connection with the Slowpoke family, but not a single line on its own evolution to Cloyster. | |||
I guess what I'm trying to say is, shouldn't the whole discussion on Slowpoke be on the Slowbro/Slowking pages (with a minor mention here) and, instead, go deeper on how Shellder evolves to Cloyster and gains Ice-typing in the process? Thoughts? [[User:Raven-14|Raven-14]] ([[User talk:Raven-14|talk]]) 17:14, 11 February 2017 (UTC) | |||
:I agree that this Biology section is a bit overwritten, but the Sheller/Slowpoke connection is not at all anime-only — look at the Pokédex entries for {{p|Slowbro}} and {{p|Slowking}}. I think it's necessary to mention at least somewhat here, although it could definitely be heavily trimmed. As for its evolution into Cloyster, afaik anything relevant to regular evolution is usually mentioned on the evolved form's article rather than the basic Pokémon's. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 18:02, 11 February 2017 (UTC) | |||