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Talk:Tier/Archive 1: Difference between revisions
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*NOTE*: Before you make comments on a pokemons' tier, be sure the conditions are fair. Lower ranked pokemon can beat higher ranked pokemon. This does not mean the tiers need to be fixed. Just because a Butterfree can KO Heracross with Arial Ace does not mean that either pokemon is in the wrong tier. Thank you. | *NOTE*: Before you make comments on a pokemons' tier, be sure the conditions are fair. Lower ranked pokemon can beat higher ranked pokemon. This does not mean the tiers need to be fixed. Just because a Butterfree can KO Heracross with Arial Ace does not mean that either pokemon is in the wrong tier. Thank you. | ||
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</ab> | </ab> | ||
Any more Questions? Oh. And one more thing, THERE IS NO MU TIER! There is Uber, OU, UU, and NU. BL's are OU's but are used less.(This is why I loooooooooooooooooooove reading Smogon.) | Any more Questions? Oh. And one more thing, THERE IS NO MU TIER! There is Uber, OU, UU, and NU. BL's are OU's but are used less.(This is why I loooooooooooooooooooove reading Smogon.) [[User:Midnight Celtic|<span style="color:#9966CC;">Midnight Celtic</span>]] 16:54, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
Yea, I dunno what's up with the MU tier here, but anyways: | Yea, I dunno what's up with the MU tier here, but anyways: | ||
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Articuno. You know, most tourneys don't allow that kind of crud. Articuno is a one trick pony, with its trick being banned 99.9% of the time. | Articuno. You know, most tourneys don't allow that kind of crud. Articuno is a one trick pony, with its trick being banned 99.9% of the time. | ||
Good day | Good day [[User:Midnight Celtic|<span style="color:#9966CC;">Midnight Celtic</span>]] 18:41, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
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IF, and that is a mighty big IF, Crud like that is allowed, Smeargle, believe it or not does a better job, since it can trap, sleep, read, and OHKO. ANYTHING with Mind Reader/OHKO Move could be considered Uber due to your logic. | IF, and that is a mighty big IF, Crud like that is allowed, Smeargle, believe it or not does a better job, since it can trap, sleep, read, and OHKO. ANYTHING with Mind Reader/OHKO Move could be considered Uber due to your logic. | ||
[[User:Midnight Celtic|<span style="color:#9966CC;">Midnight Celtic</span>]] 20:21, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
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lol, I'm not sure, I know we started arguing, then I said 65 is better than 60, or annoyer. then you said it was an annoyer, so I think we agreed. | lol, I'm not sure, I know we started arguing, then I said 65 is better than 60, or annoyer. then you said it was an annoyer, so I think we agreed. | ||
Ummm, no. just becaus something can do mind reader/OHKO, does not mean it's uber. Most of the Pokémon with both move means they have horrible stats. | Ummm, no. just becaus something can do mind reader/OHKO, does not mean it's uber. Most of the Pokémon with both move means they have horrible stats. [[User:Midnight Celtic|<span style="color:#9966CC;">Midnight Celtic</span>]] 16:23, 4 January 2008 (UTC) | ||
The thing about Weavile is that it has five great moves: Ice Punch, Brick Break, Night Slash, Pursuit, and Ice Shard (Occasionally they carry Aerial Ace, Focus Punch or Swords Dance as well). Of those five moves, All Weavile will have at least three. It actually isn't rare to see a Weavile with both Ice Punch and Ice Shard. Ninjask is probably a decent opener overall if you pair it with the right pokemon (Heracross, physical Infernape, etc.). | The thing about Weavile is that it has five great moves: Ice Punch, Brick Break, Night Slash, Pursuit, and Ice Shard (Occasionally they carry Aerial Ace, Focus Punch or Swords Dance as well). Of those five moves, All Weavile will have at least three. It actually isn't rare to see a Weavile with both Ice Punch and Ice Shard. Ninjask is probably a decent opener overall if you pair it with the right pokemon (Heracross, physical Infernape, etc.). | ||
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== Tropius is NU? == | == Tropius is NU? == | ||
Does that mean I've used an NU Pokémon to beat the Elite Four in Emerald? [[Image:Psychic-attack.png|Psychic | Does that mean I've used an NU Pokémon to beat the Elite Four in Emerald? [[Image:Psychic-attack.png|Psychic]] '''[[User:Optimus35|<span style="color: #000080">Optimus35</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Optimus35|<span style="color: #000080">Talk</span>]] | [[User:Optimus35/Diamond&Pearl|<span style="color: #B0E0E6">D</span><span style="color: #FFC0CB">P</span>]]''' </sup>[[Image:Fighting-attack.png|Fighting]] 09:53, 28 September 2007 (UTC) | ||
The Elite four don't have anything to do with the tier list. Face it: they've got brains of cow droppings. This list is solely applicable in player vs player single battles.[[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 20:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | The Elite four don't have anything to do with the tier list. Face it: they've got brains of cow droppings. This list is solely applicable in player vs player single battles.[[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 20:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
===Dewgong!=== | ===Dewgong!=== | ||
Dewgong shouldn't be NU either. I used it in the Battle Tower to beat a Dragonite '''and''' a Garchomp in one move each, and they're both OU. | Dewgong shouldn't be NU either. I used it in the Battle Tower to beat a Dragonite '''and''' a Garchomp in one move each, and they're both OU. [[User:Shiny Noctowl|<span style="color: #221202">S</span><span style="color: #554535">h</span><span style="color: #887868">i</span><span style="color: #BBAB9B">n</span><span style="color: #EEDECE">y</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|<span style="color: #775500">?</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|<span style="color: #775500">!</span>]]</sup> 18:00, 10 November 2007 (UTC) | ||
Hate to say it but Dewgong is NU. He has a horrible movepool and some sad stats. And hello? Dragonite and Garchomp both have 4x weaknesses to it's STAB attack! How could it not OHKO?[[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 20:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | Hate to say it but Dewgong is NU. He has a horrible movepool and some sad stats. And hello? Dragonite and Garchomp both have 4x weaknesses to it's STAB attack! How could it not OHKO?[[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 20:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
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The list, however, is totally unrelated to doubles. Even then, the doubles environment is really suited more toward fast hard-hitters like Weavile and Infernape, and pokémon with 95 attack and a miserable 30 speed really shouldn't be used. [[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 03:29, 24 May 2008 (UTC) | The list, however, is totally unrelated to doubles. Even then, the doubles environment is really suited more toward fast hard-hitters like Weavile and Infernape, and pokémon with 95 attack and a miserable 30 speed really shouldn't be used. [[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 03:29, 24 May 2008 (UTC) | ||
:OK, you got me there with Parasect's typing.... But Huntail's miserable speed is easily adjusted with one Rain Dance. And its HP isn't THAT bad! ESPECIALLY, now with Platinum out, Huntail can learn Sucker Punch. A slow Pokémon with a STAB first strike move. <small>- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' </small> 10:33, 27 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
==Protected page, please== | ==Protected page, please== | ||
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Maybe it should be protected, but it should be accurate first, I would think. [[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 01:41, 3 January 2008 (UTC) | Maybe it should be protected, but it should be accurate first, I would think. [[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 01:41, 3 January 2008 (UTC) | ||
:I'm talking to TTEchdina right now and I'm suggesting it to him......--{{Ani|155}}{{Ani|476}}'''[[User:Theryguy512|<span style="color:#FF7F00">Theryguy</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">5</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">1</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">2</span>]]'''{{Ani|473}} | :I'm talking to TTEchdina right now and I'm suggesting it to him......--{{Ani|155}}{{Ani|476}}'''[[User:Theryguy512|<span style="color:#FF7F00">Theryguy</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">5</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">1</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">2</span>]]'''{{Ani|473}} 01:45, 3 January 2008 (UTC) | ||
==Delete It== | ==Delete It== | ||
There is no official tier list. Many people/websites have their own tier lists. For example, some people say that Wynaut is Uber, while some say that it is BL. What is up with that? Obviously, the Tier List has no true content. May we delete it? | There is no official tier list. Many people/websites have their own tier lists. For example, some people say that Wynaut is Uber, while some say that it is BL. What is up with that? Obviously, the Tier List has no true content. May we delete it? | ||
:Hold you're horses, Cowboy! Before putting a ''Delete'' tag on it, ask other users about what they think. This is like the | :Hold you're horses, Cowboy! Before putting a ''Delete'' tag on it, ask other users about what they think. This is like the The Great Bulbapedia Turkey Shoot. Many people think that it should be delete, yet some do not. <span style="background:#5CDDFF">[[User:Theryguy512|<span style= color:#FF0000>M</span><span style= color:#177245>E</span><span style= color:#FF0000>R</span><span style= color:#177245>R</span><span style= color:#FF0000>Y</span>]] [[User talk:Theryguy512|<span style= color:#177245>C</span><span style= color:#FF0000>H</span><span style= color:#177245>R</span><span style= color:#FF0000>I</span><span style= color:#177245>S</span><span style= color:#FF0000>T</span><span style= color:#177245>M</span><span style= color:#FF0000>A</span><span style= color:#177245>S</span>]]17:40, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
::I kinda think that we should delete it. After all, this is one of the things that people could put their own shit in it (Along with the Great Turkey Shoot. That page is a steaming pile of crap now, thanks to people overreacting to vandals. :/) and.. yeah. Although, if many people think that we should keep it, protect it instead from either new members or only admins. [[User:Tina|Tina]]<sup> [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]</sup> 17:44, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | ::I kinda think that we should delete it. After all, this is one of the things that people could put their own shit in it (Along with the Great Turkey Shoot. That page is a steaming pile of crap now, thanks to people overreacting to vandals. :/) and.. yeah. Although, if many people think that we should keep it, protect it instead from either new members or only admins. [[User:Tina|Tina]]<sup> [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]</sup> 17:44, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
:::I'm for deleting it too, it's a unofficial fan list that may have too many errors in it. Plus there is no official list since it was fan-made. | :::I'm for deleting it too, it's a unofficial fan list that may have too many errors in it. Plus there is no official list since it was fan-made.[[User:Pokemaniac102|<span style="color:#F05030;">'''Poke'''</span>]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|<span style="color:#007FFF;">'''maniac'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|<span style="color:#4B0082;">'''102'''</span>]] 17:47, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
::::Lol. I could care less for both this page and the Turkey Shoot. <span style="background:#5CDDFF"> | ::::Lol. I could care less for both this page and the Turkey Shoot. <span style="background:#5CDDFF">[[User:Theryguy512|<span style= color:#FF0000>M</span><span style= color:#177245>E</span><span style= color:#FF0000>R</span><span style= color:#177245>R</span><span style= color:#FF0000>Y</span>]][[User talk:Theryguy512|<span style= color:#177245>C</span><span style= color:#FF0000>H</span><span style= color:#177245>R</span><span style= color:#FF0000>I</span><span style= color:#177245>S</span><span style= color:#FF0000>T</span><span style= color:#177245>M</span><span style= color:#FF0000>A</span><span style= color:#177245>S</span>]] 17:48, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
:Tiers are just a bunch of bullsh*t anyway. I've had my Glaceon kick a Garchomp's a$$ countless times, and they say that Glaceon is UU/BL? Pssshh. [[User:Tina|Tina]]<sup> [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]</sup> 17:50, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | :Tiers are just a bunch of bullsh*t anyway. I've had my Glaceon kick a Garchomp's a$$ countless times, and they say that Glaceon is UU/BL? Pssshh. [[User:Tina|Tina]]<sup> [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]</sup> 17:50, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
::Hey, mine did too! '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc><sup><span style=" color:navy">[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]</span></sup>Hi''' 04:07, 27 December 2007 (UTC) XD | ::Hey, mine did too! '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc><sup><span style=" color:navy">[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]</span></sup>Hi''' 04:07, 27 December 2007 (UTC) XD | ||
:::Now do we all agree to delete it? | :::Now do we all agree to delete it?[[User:Pokemaniac102|<span style="color:#F05030;">'''Poke'''</span>]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|<span style="color:#007FFF;">'''maniac'''</span>]][[User:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|<span style="color:#009900;">'''1'''</span>]]</sub><sub>[[User talk:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|<span style="color:#5218FA;">'''0'''</span>]]</sub><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|<span style="color:#3B444B;">'''2'''</span>]] 04:08, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
Either that or move it to the Appendix.'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc><sup><span style=" color:navy">[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]</span></sup>Hi''' 04:11, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | Either that or move it to the Appendix.'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc><sup><span style=" color:navy">[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]</span></sup>Hi''' 04:11, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
:I don't think we should do that. | :I don't think we should do that.[[User:Pokemaniac102|<span style="color:#F05030;">'''Poke'''</span>]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102<span style="color:#007FFF;">'''maniac'''</span>]][[User:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|<span style="color:#009900;">'''1'''</span>]]</sub><sub>[[User talk:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|<span style="color:#5218FA;">'''0'''</span>]]</sub><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|<span style="color:#3B444B;">'''2'''</span>]] 04:15, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
::It's totally fanon. Appendix...'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc><sup><span style=" color:navy">[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]</span></sup>Hi''' 04:16, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | ::It's totally fanon. Appendix...'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc><sup><span style=" color:navy">[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]</span></sup>Hi''' 04:16, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
:::I guess... | :::I guess...[[User:Pokemaniac102|<span style="color:#F05030;">'''Poke'''</span>]][[User talk:Pokemaniac102|<span style="color:#007FFF;">'''maniac'''</span>]][[User:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|<span style="color:#009900;">'''1'''</span>]]</sub><sub>[[User talk:Pokemaniac102/Riddle|<span style="color:#5218FA;">'''0'''</span>]]</sub><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Pokemaniac102|<span style="color:#3B444B;">'''2'''</span>]] 04:18, 27 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
No way should it be deleted! This is probably the most important list ever for the competitive battler! It does need some work though. | No way should it be deleted! This is probably the most important list ever for the competitive battler! It does need some work though. | ||
:I think that it should <strike>be deleted</strike>. Well, now that I see that it is in Appendix, I guess it could stay. --{{Ani|155}}{{Ani|476}}'''[[User:Theryguy512|<span style="color:#FF7F00">Theryguy</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">5</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">1</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">2</span>]]'''{{Ani|473}} | :I think that it should <strike>be deleted</strike>. Well, now that I see that it is in Appendix, I guess it could stay. --{{Ani|155}}{{Ani|476}}'''[[User:Theryguy512|<span style="color:#FF7F00">Theryguy</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">5</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">1</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">2</span>]]'''{{Ani|473}} 02:53, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
::By the way, the Appendix namespace is for 'useless' stuff, seeing as many scientists think that the {{wp|Appendix}} is useless...'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc><sup><span style=" color:navy">[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]</span></sup>Hi''' 04:23, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ::By the way, the Appendix namespace is for 'useless' stuff, seeing as many scientists think that the {{wp|Appendix}} is useless...'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc><sup><span style=" color:navy">[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]</span></sup>Hi''' 04:23, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
:::Yea, I know. And sometimes, appendixes get removed from the body.......get my connection? --{{Ani|155}}{{Ani|476}}'''[[User:Theryguy512|<span style="color:#FF7F00">Theryguy</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">5</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">1</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">2</span>]]'''{{Ani|473}} | :::Yea, I know. And sometimes, appendixes get removed from the body.......get my connection? --{{Ani|155}}{{Ani|476}}'''[[User:Theryguy512|<span style="color:#FF7F00">Theryguy</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">5</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">1</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">2</span>]]'''{{Ani|473}} 13:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
::::I was wondering what it was doing in the main namespace in the first place...and I do get what you mean. '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc><sup><span style=" color:navy">[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]</span></sup>Hi''' 13:35, 4 January 2008 (UTC) | ::::I was wondering what it was doing in the main namespace in the first place...and I do get what you mean. '''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|{{tt|Optimatum♏|Optimus35}}]]</sc><sup><span style=" color:navy">[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|♊]]</span></sup>Hi''' 13:35, 4 January 2008 (UTC) | ||
::::They get removed if they're diseased. Does this appendix look diseased to you? --[[User:Clorox|Clorox]] ([[User talk:Clorox|diskussion]]) 01:00, 27 June 2008 (UTC) | ::::They get removed if they're diseased. Does this appendix look diseased to you? --[[User:Clorox|Clorox]] ([[User talk:Clorox|diskussion]]) 01:00, 27 June 2008 (UTC) | ||
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== Hitmonchan UU?! == | == Hitmonchan UU?! == | ||
I really think Hitmonchan should be a Border Line. It knows Three STAB Piority First Moves, Can Learn the All Mighty BoltBeam Combo (With Ice/Thunder Punch, of course) And for Crying Out loud, it can Own Blissly In one shot, or atleast Mine can. So please put Hitmonchan in BL, not UU.--<span style="color:#A020F0">[[User:Quick Man|Quick Man | I really think Hitmonchan should be a Border Line. It knows Three STAB Piority First Moves, Can Learn the All Mighty BoltBeam Combo (With Ice/Thunder Punch, of course) And for Crying Out loud, it can Own Blissly In one shot, or atleast Mine can. So please put Hitmonchan in BL, not UU.--<span style="color:#A020F0">[[User:Quick Man|Quick Man]] 17:00, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
:Uh.. *shrugs* We didn't come up with this list, so.. yeah. Can't help you there. Tiers are crap anyway -- they seriously, imo, mean absolutely nothing. And I'm a big competitive battler too. [[User:Tina|Tina]]<sup> [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]</sup> 03:45, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | :Uh.. *shrugs* We didn't come up with this list, so.. yeah. Can't help you there. Tiers are crap anyway -- they seriously, imo, mean absolutely nothing. And I'm a big competitive battler too. [[User:Tina|Tina]]<sup> [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]</sup> 03:45, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
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Well, maybe he could be BL. He'd have really nice type coverage from a Choice set like this: Close Combat, Stone Edge, ThunderPunch, Ice Punch. Unfortunately, His Base Attack is too low to use on a Scarf set, or with a Band set, he'd be a pretty slow pokemon. Overall, however, Heracross massively outdoes him. [[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 20:09, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | Well, maybe he could be BL. He'd have really nice type coverage from a Choice set like this: Close Combat, Stone Edge, ThunderPunch, Ice Punch. Unfortunately, His Base Attack is too low to use on a Scarf set, or with a Band set, he'd be a pretty slow pokemon. Overall, however, Heracross massively outdoes him. [[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 20:09, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
I beg to Differ! --<span style="color:#A020F0">[[User:Quick Man|Quick Man | I beg to Differ! --<span style="color:#A020F0">[[User:Quick Man|Quick Man]] 17:00, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
I agree with Quick Man. I've used Hitmonchan consistantly in OU battles with Elemental Punches + Drain Punch. (Yes I know that move is crud. but try using it with an Iron Fist Hitmonchan against TTar. I've Recovered almost full health from brink of disaster. | I agree with Quick Man. I've used Hitmonchan consistantly in OU battles with Elemental Punches + Drain Punch. (Yes I know that move is crud. but try using it with an Iron Fist Hitmonchan against TTar. I've Recovered almost full health from brink of disaster. [[User:Midnight Celtic|<span style="color:#9966CC;">Midnight Celtic</span>]] 17:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
== Maybe Tiers have Seperate Articles? == | == Maybe Tiers have Seperate Articles? == | ||
Okay the more I look at this talk page, the more "Why the hell is so-so in so-so when he can.. blah blah" I start to see. After awhile, it's going to be too much room for the talk page to handle don't you think? So I thought... that if we ARE gonna keep the tier list (Which I hope we do being a fan of competitive battling) that we make seperate articles for each tier? | Okay the more I look at this talk page, the more "Why the hell is so-so in so-so when he can.. blah blah" I start to see. After awhile, it's going to be too much room for the talk page to handle don't you think? So I thought... that if we ARE gonna keep the tier list (Which I hope we do being a fan of competitive battling) that we make seperate articles for each tier?[[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] | ||
:Hmm.. that's a nice idea.. although like, if we do seperate the tiers into different pages we should have descriptions of what's mostly in there anyway. Like for example, we could say that OU Pokémon have very high stats and a large movepool, and some such as {{p|Tyranitar}} and {{p|Blissey}} can compete in Uber battles because they are strong enough. [[User:Tina|Tina]]<sup> [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]</sup> 03:48, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | :Hmm.. that's a nice idea.. although like, if we do seperate the tiers into different pages we should have descriptions of what's mostly in there anyway. Like for example, we could say that OU Pokémon have very high stats and a large movepool, and some such as {{p|Tyranitar}} and {{p|Blissey}} can compete in Uber battles because they are strong enough. [[User:Tina|Tina]]<sup> [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]</sup> 03:48, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
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We should put each Pokémon's tier on that Pokémon's page. <span style="background: #808080"> | We should put each Pokémon's tier on that Pokémon's page. <span style="background: #808080">[[User:Shiny Noctowl|<span style="color: #221202">S</span><span style="color: #550E01">h</span><span style="color: #880901">i</span><span style="color: #CC0500">n</span><span style="color: #FF0000">y</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|<span style="color: #221202">?</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|<span style="color: #FF0000">!</span>]]</sup> </span> 14:56, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
:That works too. But either way, I don't really care which way is done... it's just I don't want to see anything cluttered and such. :P [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] 16:08, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | :That works too. But either way, I don't really care which way is done... it's just I don't want to see anything cluttered and such. :P [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] 16:08, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
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==Medicham== | ==Medicham== | ||
Why is Medicham OU? It has horrible stats and a rather small movepool, so it should be moved down to BL. <span style="background: #808080"> | Why is Medicham OU? It has horrible stats and a rather small movepool, so it should be moved down to BL. <span style="background: #808080">[[User:Shiny Noctowl|<span style="color: #221202">S</span><span style="color: #550E01">h</span><span style="color: #880901">i</span><span style="color: #CC0500">n</span><span style="color: #FF0000">y</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|<span style="color: #221202">?</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|<span style="color: #FF0000">!</span>]]</sup> </span> 15:02, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
I think its Pure Power ability has something to do with it, which DOUBLES its attack stat. | I think its Pure Power ability has something to do with it, which DOUBLES its attack stat. | ||
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|} 15:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | |} 15:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
I Agree with Shiny Noctowl! I think Medicham DOESN'T have what it takes to be a OU! I say BL, or even MU.--<span style="color:#A020F0">[[User:Quick Man|Quick Man | I Agree with Shiny Noctowl! I think Medicham DOESN'T have what it takes to be a OU! I say BL, or even MU.--<span style="color:#A020F0">[[User:Quick Man|Quick Man]] 17:02, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
Have YOU ever eaten a Pure Power Elemental Punch? Not pretty. | Have YOU ever eaten a Pure Power Elemental Punch? Not pretty. [[User:Midnight Celtic|<span style="color:#9966CC;">Midnight Celtic</span>]] 17:15, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
:Well, although I haven't studied Medicham yet... I kinda have to agree about the Pure Power thing. But I'm also going to side on both sides here, cause it still has bad stas and a not so nice of a movepool... although it does have roles under its belt. :P [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] 17:31, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | :Well, although I haven't studied Medicham yet... I kinda have to agree about the Pure Power thing. But I'm also going to side on both sides here, cause it still has bad stas and a not so nice of a movepool... although it does have roles under its belt. :P [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] 17:31, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
@Quick Man: (Bear in mind this is not directly at you) BL is just OU that is used less. Try again. | @Quick Man: (Bear in mind this is not directly at you) BL is just OU that is used less. Try again. [[User:Midnight Celtic|<span style="color:#9966CC;">Midnight Celtic</span>]] 18:45, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
I think probably BL. He's just a bit too fragile. BL is not OU that is used less, It's actually supposed to be for those too strong to be UU. However, here we have MU for some reason...[[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 20:01, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | I think probably BL. He's just a bit too fragile. BL is not OU that is used less, It's actually supposed to be for those too strong to be UU. However, here we have MU for some reason...[[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 20:01, 31 December 2007 (UTC) | ||
Look on Smogon, Pg13 of tier discussions, second post. Look. Oh and btw, look at OUR list again. No MU. | Look on Smogon, Pg13 of tier discussions, second post. Look. Oh and btw, look at OUR list again. No MU. [[User:Midnight Celtic|<span style="color:#9966CC;">Midnight Celtic</span>]] | ||
== TIRES DON EXITS == | == TIRES DON EXITS == | ||
Should we have a tier list for the Smash Brothers games? --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] <sup>[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Fabu-Vinny|C]]-[[User:Fabu-Vinny/Sandbox|S]]</sup> 16:29, 4 January 2008 (UTC) | Should we have a tier list for the Smash Brothers games? --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] <sup>[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Fabu-Vinny|C]]-[[User:Fabu-Vinny/Sandbox|S]]</sup> 16:29, 4 January 2008 (UTC) | ||
:Wait.. there's tiers for SSB too? [[User:Tina|Tina]]<sup> [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]</sup> 16:56, 4 January 2008 (UTC) | :Wait.. there's tiers for SSB too? [[User:Tina|Tina]]<sup> [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]</sup> 16:56, 4 January 2008 (UTC) | ||
::WHAT? Seriously? But....they're only like 20 characters for the SSB games! Is the list like.....10? --{{Ani|155}}{{Ani|476}}'''[[User:Theryguy512|<span style="color:#FF7F00">Theryguy</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">5</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">1</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">2</span>]]'''{{Ani|473}} | ::WHAT? Seriously? But....they're only like 20 characters for the SSB games! Is the list like.....10? --{{Ani|155}}{{Ani|476}}'''[[User:Theryguy512|<span style="color:#FF7F00">Theryguy</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">5</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">1</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Sandbox|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">2</span>]]'''{{Ani|473}} 20:08, 4 January 2008 (UTC) | ||
:::Tier lists are about defining the hierarchy of effectivenenss. With the amount of variables between the different characters, yes, the serious competitive players have come to a consensus on who it is wise to use or not use in the tournament scene. National tournament-winners of Melee almost always use Marth, Fox, Falco or Sheik. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] <sup>[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Fabu-Vinny|C]]-[[User:Fabu-Vinny/Sandbox|S]]</sup> 02:50, 5 January 2008 (UTC) | :::Tier lists are about defining the hierarchy of effectivenenss. With the amount of variables between the different characters, yes, the serious competitive players have come to a consensus on who it is wise to use or not use in the tournament scene. National tournament-winners of Melee almost always use Marth, Fox, Falco or Sheik. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] <sup>[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Fabu-Vinny|C]]-[[User:Fabu-Vinny/Sandbox|S]]</sup> 02:50, 5 January 2008 (UTC) | ||
::::On consideration, I think I'll just note the individual tournament status for {{p|Pikachu}}, {{p|Jigglypuff}}, {{p|Pichu}} and {{p|Mewtwo}} in their own articles. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] <sup>[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Fabu-Vinny|C]]-[[User:Fabu-Vinny/Sandbox|S]]</sup> 12:19, 6 January 2008 (UTC) | ::::On consideration, I think I'll just note the individual tournament status for {{p|Pikachu}}, {{p|Jigglypuff}}, {{p|Pichu}} and {{p|Mewtwo}} in their own articles. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] <sup>[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Fabu-Vinny|C]]-[[User:Fabu-Vinny/Sandbox|S]]</sup> 12:19, 6 January 2008 (UTC) | ||
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Since Smash is somewhat related to Pokémon, maybe the Smash lists should be somewhere. And yes, there are huge differences between Smash characters, especially in Melee, that require a tier list. [[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 03:35, 24 May 2008 (UTC) | Since Smash is somewhat related to Pokémon, maybe the Smash lists should be somewhere. And yes, there are huge differences between Smash characters, especially in Melee, that require a tier list. [[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 03:35, 24 May 2008 (UTC) | ||
There shouldn't be a SSB tier list, since in that game it's possible to beat any character with any character. Hell, there's people who say Kirby is only good at edge-guarding (and that he sucks at even that), but I kick unbelievable *** with him against characters that are supposedly the only ones you should even think about using competetively (like Mario, Captain Falcon, and Ness)! And I don't edge-guard at all! [[User:Diachronos|Diachronos]] 17:13, 29 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
== Wobbuffet == | == Wobbuffet == | ||
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''[[Glitch Pokémon]]. [[Pokémon|Official Pokémon]]. There is no real difference between the two. [[User talk:Missingno. Master|In my opinion]], the two should be considered equal!<span style="color:#FF0000">--</span> quoted by [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno]][[User:Missingno. Master/The Order of the Glitch|.]] [[User:Missingno. Master|Master]] | ''[[Glitch Pokémon]]. [[Pokémon|Official Pokémon]]. There is no real difference between the two. [[User talk:Missingno. Master|In my opinion]], the two should be considered equal!<span style="color:#FF0000">--</span> quoted by [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno]][[User:Missingno. Master/The Order of the Glitch|.]] [[User:Missingno. Master|Master]] | ||
</small> 15:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC) | </small> 15:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC) | ||
:Agreed, although I highly doubt it will happen. Oh, and I think (last time I checked) there was some support for moving Garchomp to Uber. I haven't looked recently, so I don't know. | :Agreed, although I highly doubt it will happen. Oh, and I think (last time I checked) there was some support for moving Garchomp to Uber. I haven't looked recently, so I don't know. [[User:Midnight Celtic|<span style="color:#9966CC;">Midnight Celtic</span>]] 17:47, 13 February 2008 (UTC) <!-- By the way, are you af any relation to the Missingno.Master on Nintendo's NSider? Just curious... --> | ||
::The agreement now is that Wobby is definetly Uber, and although the Garchomp to Uber thing did get some support, nearly all reputable tier lists still have him in OU. [[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 02:27, 23 June 2008 (UTC) | ::The agreement now is that Wobby is definetly Uber, and although the Garchomp to Uber thing did get some support, nearly all reputable tier lists still have him in OU. [[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 02:27, 23 June 2008 (UTC) | ||
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Dragonite is a VERY rare sight on OU battles, since it can't match Salamence and Garchomp, and since BL are for OU-strengh Pokémon with few appearances, I suggest it is moved down to it. | Dragonite is a VERY rare sight on OU battles, since it can't match Salamence and Garchomp, and since BL are for OU-strengh Pokémon with few appearances, I suggest it is moved down to it. | ||
This works for many other Pokémon in the same situation, such as Ambipom.<span style="background:#000000;">{{ani|277}}[[User:Greysky|<span style="color:#FF0000;">'''''Grey'''''</span>]][[User talk:Greysky|<span style="color:#FF0000;">'''''sky'''''</span>]]{{ani|135}}</span> 03:58, 18 February 2008 (UTC) | This works for many other Pokémon in the same situation, such as Ambipom.<span style="background:#000000;">{{ani|277}}[[User:Greysky|<span style="color:#FF0000;">'''''Grey'''''</span>]][[User talk:Greysky|<span style="color:#FF0000;">'''''sky'''''</span>]]{{ani|135}}</span> 03:58, 18 February 2008 (UTC) | ||
:Yes, It's not used often, but no, it shouldn't be moved. Moving a Pokémon with that power would overcentralize the BL Metagame. Everyone would be forced to carry the strongest Ice Pokémon in BL (I haven't checked who it is). Yes, BL is Pokémon who can solidly compete in OU, but not seen, but it is also for Pokémon too powerful for UU, which is where most BL Pokémon fit. Besides, other than Shelgon, which is rarely seen, Dragonite is the best Dragon-type tank. | :Yes, It's not used often, but no, it shouldn't be moved. Moving a Pokémon with that power would overcentralize the BL Metagame. Everyone would be forced to carry the strongest Ice Pokémon in BL (I haven't checked who it is). Yes, BL is Pokémon who can solidly compete in OU, but not seen, but it is also for Pokémon too powerful for UU, which is where most BL Pokémon fit. Besides, other than Shelgon, which is rarely seen, Dragonite is the best Dragon-type tank. [[User:Midnight Celtic|<span style="color:#9966CC;">Midnight Celtic</span>]] 13:36, 16 March 2008 (UTC) | ||
::No one plays BL enough to say there is a metagame. And besides, BL, like Uber is merely a ban tier. Even if people start playing enough of it to have a metagame, its basic purpose is a ban tier. By definition, Dragonite is technically BL last time I checked usage statistics (which was april lol, but not like that changed) | |||
--[[User:Outrage DD|Outrage DD]] 00:52, 15 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
== Opinions? == | == Opinions? == | ||
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--[[User:Outrage DD|Outrage DD]] 00:47, 15 September 2008 (UTC) | --[[User:Outrage DD|Outrage DD]] 00:47, 15 September 2008 (UTC) | ||
I say that the Admins should get together and come up with Bulbapedia's own tier list, rather than using Smogon's (which, quite frankly, is a piece of $#!*; there's Pokémon that should be in at least BL, if not OU or even Uber, but are in UU just because people don't use them as much as others). Maybe establish a list of criteria that each Pokémon needs to meet/pass to be classified in each tier (example: for OU, they must capable of learning a moveset that can trump at least 7 types, as well as high Attack/Special Attack and high Speed), instead of just going by how often it gets used? [[User:Diachronos|Diachronos]] 16:21, 7 October 2008 (UTC) | |||
== Gallade == | == Gallade == | ||
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===HELLO, POSTSCRIPT:=== | ===HELLO, POSTSCRIPT:=== | ||
Garchomp was moved to Ubers by Smogon. While they don't really dictate what is and what is not in which tier, would it be worth moving him here as well? Just a thought. — <strong><span style="color:#0066CC">[[User:Antarctica|antarctica]]</span> | <span style="color:#99CCFF">[[User talk:Antarctica|talk]]</span></strong> 14:21, 14 September 2008 (UTC) | Garchomp was moved to Ubers by Smogon. While they don't really dictate what is and what is not in which tier, would it be worth moving him here as well? Just a thought. — <strong><span style="color:#0066CC">[[User:Antarctica|antarctica]]</span> | <span style="color:#99CCFF">[[User talk:Antarctica|talk]]</span></strong> 14:21, 14 September 2008 (UTC) | ||
:Smogon basically does decide the tiers. [[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 18:34, 21 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
== So what? == | == So what? == | ||
Are you people actually doing these tiers based on usage for OU and UU and what Pokemon is jsut broken there (hence Uber and BL) or is it done by usefulness/strength? | Are you people actually doing these tiers based on usage for OU and UU and what Pokemon is jsut broken there (hence Uber and BL) or is it done by usefulness/strength? --[[User:Outrage DD|Outrage DD]] 00:37, 15 September 2008 (UTC) | ||
:It's done by usefulness/strength. Take into account base states, types, move pool, abilities, etc., and you can create some seriously powerful pokémon, or just pieces of crap. Farfetch'd, for example, can unfortunately never be good. The only time I am aware of the metagame actually dictating where a pokémon goes is recently when Smogon bumped Garchomp from OU to Ubers, and that's going to reshape the whole game (we hope). Go read Smogon or something if you want to know in-depth. — <strong><span style="color:#0066CC">[[User:Antarctica|antarctica]]</span> | <span style="color:#99CCFF">[[User talk:Antarctica|talk]]</span></strong> 18:03, 15 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
::And don't forget that you can't judge whether a Pokémon is in a particular tier or not just by looking at a few things. Rayquaza might be an Uber, but that doesn't mean that it can easily beat an OU Ice Punching Weavile. [[User:Diachronos|Diachronos]] 17:37, 29 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
:::I know how Rayquaza can be beaten by OU Pokemon. Heck, standard Kyogre is beaten by Shedinja. Why is it then that you use usage terms that Smogon uses on their tier list when you aren't tiering by usage statistics (and what is generally broken)? Here's the perfect example: Magneton in 3rd gen. It is crap, yet OU merely because it was used as much as Skarmory just to beat Skarmory.. its crap everywhere else, but still OU. If you aren't going to use usage statistics than wouldn't different terms be more useful here? It conflicts with already existing terms. BL Pokemon aren't Pokemon inferior to OU half the time. They are merely Pokemon who are not over used but are broken in the lower tier. --[[User:Outrage DD|Outrage DD]] 00:48, 5 October 2008 (UTC) | |||
== Garchomp == | |||
is ubers. [http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/garchomp Garchomp][[User:Scarfcrosspwns|Scarfcrosspwns]] 18:13, 21 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
== Maybe add some notes to the bottom of the page? == | |||
Should explain why certain Pokémon are in certain tiers. Like Wynaut in Uber (still don't get that-as if it could take hits like Wobbuffet, and even then, Wobbuffet is far more manageable these days, what with Shed Skin, U-Turn, Roar, Whirlwind, Gastro Acid, Skill Swap, Worry Seed, the list goes on and on. Then there's Sableye and Spiritomb, both unnaffected by Counter AND Mirror Coat.), Regigigas in BL (For those who don't know how truly awful Slow Start is), and- wait, why hasn't Garchomp been moved into Ubers on this list? Smogon's ubers list has Garchomp, and it's not like they just added it to ubers on a whim, they took an entire month to test how battling would change w/o Garchomp, then they took the most experienced battlers, and had them vote on the matter. The overwhelming majority of votes were for Uberizing Garchomp. <small>- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' </small> 10:41, 27 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
== Stop complaining == | |||
Everyone who's complaining that "This Pokémon should be OU instead of BL" or "How is this Pokémon OU when it should be UU"; KNOCK IT OFF. I agree that you can't just chuck a Pokémon in a spot based on a small number of statistics, but you have to remember that how powerful a Pokémon is is based off of how it was raised. | |||
*Example: A Houndoom (BL) with SolarBeam goes up against a Groudon (Uber). The Houndoom knocks out the Groudon with only one hit. Does this mean that it's impossible for Groudon to be an Uber, or for Houndoom to be a BL? NO. [[User:Diachronos|Diachronos]] 17:32, 29 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
== Deletion of the list == | |||
Why can't we just delete the list? There is no official list, and each tier list can greatly vary. <span style="color:#0000FF">--'''''Posted by'''''</span> [[User:Deadlymethane|<span style="color:#7BA05B">'''''Deadly'''''</span>]][[User talk:Deadlymethane|<span style="color:#7BA05B">'''''methane'''''</span>]] <span style="color:#DA3287">'''at'''</span> 20:52, 30 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
::I second that motion. Also because this tier list does not seem to be using usage statistics yet are using the traditional usage terms. They completely misclassify what a UU/OU/BL?Uber Pokemon is because of that. Yeah there is a corrolation between usage and usefullness, but things like 3rd gen Magneton completely destroys their definition when outside from killing Skarmory, it was shit yet was OU because it was used as much as Skarmory.--[[User:Outrage DD|Outrage DD]] 00:42, 5 October 2008 (UTC) | |||
== {{p|Garchomp}} is in Ubers == | |||
Garchomp has gone up to Uber. So can someone edit the page and put him in Uber? [[User:Master Lucario|Master Lucario]] | |||
:Uh... not that I've heard. I'll start a topic on it on the forums, but until we can get a consensus on the issue, Garchomp isn't an uber. --[[User:Politoed666|<span style="color:#30D5C8">ニョロトノ</span>]][[User talk:Politoed666|<span style="color:#FF69B4">''666''</span>]] 21:14, 4 October 2008 (UTC) | |||
::Well, Smogon put him there because he overcentralized OU. He's been there for at least a couple of months now. [http://www.smogon.com/dp/tiers/uber Link here] [[User:Master Lucario|Master Lucario]] | |||
:::A Donphan with {{m|Ice Shard}} can 3HKO (sometimes 2HKO) Garchomp, yet Donphan's not Uber. So neither is Garchomp. --[[user:Baby G|<span style="color:#FF4500;">Baby G]]</span> <small>([[user talk:Baby G|<span style="color:#D1E231;">talk to me]]</span>)</small> <small>([[Special:Contributions/Baby_G|<span style="color:#B87333;">see my edits]]</span>)</small> 01:06, 5 October 2008 (UTC) | |||
== I must applaud this article... == | |||
...for the simple reason that it is the most viewed article in the Appendix space. '''[[User:Optimatum|<span class="explain" title="Optimus35"><sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc></span>]]<sub>[[User talk:Optimatum|Talk]]|[[User:Optimatum/sig/Pikachu|Links]]</sub> | |||