Bulbapedia talk:Project Routes

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Okay, so, Route 28: yes K-J map. Route 27: no. And I've had an idea: a combo map for the list, showing all of the areas in one big map. We could combine it canonically, since there's that one map floating around here... Maybe. I'll ask Zhen Lin about the animation later if you haven't already. Tom Temprotran 21:35, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I've been a bit busy lately, so if you could ask Zhen Lin, that'd be great. The large map idea for the list sounds like a plan as well, as that would really give added detail to the list page. Also, the main reason that I wanted to move this discussion here was that, believe it or not, this page was the #1 wanted article on Bulbapedia because of all the links created from the article footer template. =) --TMF T - C 04:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
All right. I shall do so. And as for the combined map: [1]. Should I fill in the empty spot to the west with some abrupt end to the continent? And to the south of Kanto and Johto, the Orange Islands? Or a giant AREA UNKNOWN sticker over ocean? And what about those cheesy region labels? Keep 'em, or out with them?
And... wow. Oops? How many is that, 40, 50 links? Ah well. I sent off an email message, so hopefully I'll get a reply today. Tom Temprotran 03:07, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Animation is fine, provided:

  1. The first frame is sufficiently informative - some people disable animated GIFs, so for them they will only see the first frame.
  2. If the animation loops, then the animation must not become irritating - so a slow strobe would work, but blinking is not good.
  3. Try not to exceed 200KB per image. - 振霖T 03:44, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

That works. TMF, what's your appraisal of this [2]? I've already added Route 1's to its article and modified the template, but we'll have to get cracking with the other regions fast. I should finish them all for Kanto by tomorrow night. Tom Temprotran 06:29, 25 August 2006 (UTC) (Modified 07:08, 25 August 2006 (UTC).)
That looks great. These'll be excellent additions to the articles. --TMF T - C 08:26, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
All right. I'll get to the Hoenn ones for the articles we have right now, then go back and start creating the articles we don't have yet in Johto and Sevii to implement the maps. Tom Temprotran 08:05, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
I changed the infobox to use "(Region) Route(Number) Map.gif" as the default map, so that should make the regionmap entry redundant for all of the numbered routes. For the named routes, the regionmap entry is still available so that the correct map can be shown. --TMF T - C 21:57, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
All right. That works, makes it a whole lot easier, then. All I gotta do is save the files to the right name. Tom Temprotran 01:07, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Hi there! I'm rather new around here but I wanted to help out with getting maps in for Sinnoh. I noticed TTEchidna's animated maps with route highlights and thought I'd try to replicate that for routes that are still displaying the default image. This is my attempt for Route 202. Should I keep making and uploading them? - ShadowtrooperMaster Ball III.pngTalk 01:06, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Well, it looks all right, I do think that the highlight should have rounder edges, though, but eh, that's just me trying to mimic the in-game dex location thingy. Just remember if you do one of those underground/in-cave/other thingy areas (like Three Isle Path is), that you wait for me to give you the go-ahead. I'm planning to use a red marking for those ones, like what appears for Carnivine's area in the dex.
Or heck, I could even give you all of the resources I use to make those maps, and you can go from those. If you're interested, contact me on AIM or something, or even on my talk page. --TTEchidna 01:34, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


Hey, Route people - how attached are you guys to the current style of the infobox? Because to be honest, the style bothers me each time I see the infobox, and more than once I've been tempted to edit it. Can something at least be done about the seemingly random background colors of the infobox's sections? --Pie 08:54, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

What do you suggest for it? For the colors, maybe having them differ depending on whether it's a majority-land, majority-sea, or majority-cave would break up the monotony, with it being shades of green for land, shades of blue for sea, and shades of light brown or grey for cave. It'd certainly make it easier for a person to tell at a glance which one it was, if the route doesn't yet have an in-game map of it available.
Just so long as it still incorporates all of the stuff we have in it now, I'm fine with changes. Especially the regional overview map that indicates its location, as I haven't yet had a chance to add that in on every route article made so far. Tom Temprotran 17:53, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I guess, and again that wouldn't be too hard to incorporate. I'd really rather just see a colorscheme that's less random than green, lightgreen, gray, gray, cyan.
And I don't see any problem with the content of the infobox. It's just the appearance that bothers me. --Pie 19:53, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Well, the new version looks awesome. Much more colorful. And leaving the type part out of Route 219 makes it just plain white. So that works out perfect, since we don't know if it's all water, or if it's more like 118, where you have to surf across a teeny strech of water to arrive at the rest of the route. And now to help add the type to all of the rest of the routes... Tom Temprotran 22:01, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Glad you like it. I think it also helps to combine some things into the same rows - such as having the alternate name with the normal name, so there's no empty 1px white line if there's no alternate name. I personally think it's a better fix than turning off rules entirely. --Pie 03:51, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
The revamped infobox looks real nice. To be honest, the old formatting and background colors were based on wp:Template:Infobox road, so I wasn't attached to the old formatting in the least bit. Again, Pie, great job with the new infobox coding!
I don't think the alternate name should be in the same row as the road name, though. After all, the name of Route 16 is not "Route 16 - Cycling Road", it is "Route 16". --TMF T - C 08:32, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Well, I tried it both ways - the problem is that if there is no alternate name, as is the case with many routes, the slot for the alternate names shows up anyway. It was invisible with no rules, but with rules, it's an annoying little strip between the title and the rest of the table. I think people can figure out that it's just an alternate name by the content of the article. --Pie 08:35, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
I would agree with you if I was able to see that white strip that you mention. I use Firefox 1.5, so the infobox renders as designed (no strip, alternate name or not). --TMF T - C 08:40, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Huh. Maybe it's just my version of Firefox, then. But if you can't see the dividing rules, why does it bother you, then? I mean, if we gave it a separate cell with a different background color, then you'd just have the problem I have when there's no alternate name - you'd see a 1px strip of the background color for no apparent reason. If we gave the separate cell the same background color, then it would look the same to you either way - but make the strip visible to me. I don't see how putting the alternate name in a separate cell could possibly help anything. --Pie 08:47, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
BTW - upgraded to 1.5, and the table still appears the same. --Pie 08:54, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

(back to the left) I have no idea why that would be the case, but that's interesting. Gotta love technology. =) In all seriousness, I made a tweak to the infobox coding so that the alternate name entry is optional. I removed the empty entry on Route 15, so check it out to see if making the entry optional fixes the bug. --TMF T - C 08:59, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

No, no, no, that's not the problem. See, the thing is that if there was no alternate name, it would do just as it was told - put no name. But it would still make an empty two-column cell in the table, between the title and the rest of the infobox information, 1px wide. The only way to fix this is to have an actual infobox on-off switch, so that the code does not include a "|-" in the line before where the alternate title would go - or, the easy way, to just include the alternate name in the same cell as the main name, and do away with that separator completely. Do you understand, or do I need to switch it temporarily to demonstrate the problem to you? --Pie 09:03, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I just found an easy way to show - check the infobox for Aura Sphere, which has a blank entry for its battle description and contest description. Note that the cell is still made - that's what happens if there's no alternate name and the alternate name has a separate cell. (Or can you not see the rules on that infobox, either?) --Pie 09:17, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Looking at the current coding of the infobox, the alternate name is already in the same cell as the main name of the road on a lower line, which I have no problems with.
(This just dawned on me) However, if you mean that the previous version of the infobox that gave the alt. name its own cell was the glitchy one, then please accept my apologies for misunderstanding. (It is 5 AM EST, so that explains my lack of clear thinking) --TMF T - C 09:20, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes, that was what I was talking about - and what I thought you were talking about. I had a feeling there was some sort of miscommunication. Glad we got it cleared up. ^^o (And it's the same ridiculous hour here - hi, Mr. NYer, I'm from RI. But I'm a little more used to operating at this hour, I guess...) --Pie 09:26, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
(Post-edit conflict): Yes, I can see the little 3px "blank cell" between the two sections. So that confirms you were referring to the previous version of the infobox. Sorry for the misunderstanding on a ton of levels (I'll go to bed before I come off as an ever bigger moron by making more stupid assumptions...) --TMF T - C 09:27, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Hey, it's all right. It's an understandable mistake - being a moron would require you to restore a page after I reverted it to a redirect four times with explanation, warning, and all. (But on another note, sleep isn't a bad idea, considering the sun's just starting to come up here...) --Pie 09:35, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Appearance percentages

One issue done, and onto another - since the Pokémon species articles have enough needing to be added without having a "game locations" table fifty pages long for the common species, but the locations table will link to the routes and locations they're found in anyway, perhaps on the route articles the exact appearance percentages and levels of Pokémon on each route could be added? Not immediately - though given how quickly you guys seem to be working, I wouldn't be surprised if it could be done sooner than it'll take to fully flesh out and organize the first fifty species articles... --Pie 03:51, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

That's a good idea. I've seen it on a few of the route pages so far, I figure we could do it for them all eventually. The levels would be a nice addition, too. If we used a table, maybe we could use little color boxes that'd represent the eleven versions, showing which ones they appear in, so the table doesn't strech. They could be labeled, like, a red one colored FF0000 have an R, a blue one colored 0000FF with a B, a yellow with FFFF00 with a Y... Then for similar-colored ones, like Ruby and Red, Ruby could have a darker or lighter color, I think. Maybe Groudon-red, which seems a bit darker than FF-red. Likewise, Sapphire could have a darker blue, like the one called sapphire in the list of colors on Wikipedia. And Emerald could have a darker green than LeafGreen. Heck, I'd think we should go by cartrige color, having the FR box be more orange than the R box, and the LG box being closer to 00FF00 green than the G one, which would be closer to the 008000 one, like (I assume) the cartrige. And maybe they could have links to each version, like R and B would link to Red and Blue, in case someone's still confused about it.
I dunno. Mine might not be a workable or even smart idea, I think it'd look cool, though, not that that's the important thing. Tom Temprotran 08:03, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
It's a good thought - but if I'm picturing this design correctly, I think the main problem would be that it might be even more difficult than it is currently to note the differences between the versions, including levels and appearance rates. Though if it were still split up by generation (which is never a bad idea anyway), it would be similar to the current design, but quicker and easier to understand with the visual aid. (In fact... hang on, I think I'm going to try semi-incorporating that idea into the Route 1 article.) --Pie 08:13, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Pie, that table looks excellent. The only question I have is where would I find the appearance rates? For the levels, I can get those for Gen. II easily, but I'd have to do some guesswork for Gen. I and III. --TMF T - C 21:36, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
I looked around - the only website I've found that has appearance rates is Psypoke, and it's difficult to convert that information - they have the percentage a Pokémon appears on a route for each version, but they don't have any pages with the whole route's appearance percentages. Other websites don't mention the appearance percentages at all, and I haven't found one yet that says the levels. If we can get that information - which we may have to do by playing our games a lot and checking published strategy guides instead of online ones - we'd probably be the best source out there for wild Pokémon encounters. --Pie 00:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I just noticed that the Japanese Pokémon Wiki lists Pokémon levels for every Generation (at least on Route 3). I wonder where they were able to obtain their information and, more importantly, if those levels would be correct for the English-speaking games. --TMF T - C 05:51, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Also, what colors should be used for Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald? --TMF T - C 23:12, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
I've mostly been using the ones I use in my user profile - and for Ruby and Emerald, I use fee and efe. However, those are really pastel on their own, and there's nothing wrong with reusing fcc, ccf and cfc - first off, RSE doesn't share any routes with RBY or FRLG, and if you notice both R and FR have fcc as their color anyway and it looks fine. --Pie 00:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Widening the scope?

This project already covers all numbered routes and major non-numbered routes and paths. Should we widen the scope to virtually anything that isn't in a town/city (which would widen our scope to include areas like Cerulean Cave, Viridian Forest, Rock Tunnel, Union Cave, etc.)? --TMF T - C 21:39, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't know - they don't really seem to fit, just by the fact that they're not Routes in any sense. Maybe you need to start a new project - or create an umbrella project for this, Project Cities and Towns, and all other locations - Project World or something. --Pie 00:23, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Well, some of the caves could count as routes, like Union Cave and Rock Tunnel, since they have two separate ends and need to be passed through to get to the next destination. Cerulean Cave wouldn't, though, since it's one-way, and doesn't connect two places, but instead serves more as an optional dungeon-- which everyone takes anyway. Or else we could move the caves and such to a Project Caves or Project Dungeons, leave the underground connector routes to here... We'd have to be careful about naming it, though, Ilex and Viridian Forests, and Petalburg Woods aren't really dungeons or caves. Tom Temprotran 01:18, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Point taken. I agree with you whole heartedly. In retrospect, I wouldn't consider Viridian Forest (which is completely encompassed by Route 2) or Cerulean Cave (which has only one way in and one way out) routes either. On the other hand, Union Cave, which links the Ruins of Alph, Route 32 and Azalea Town via Route 33, may fit in the same way that Diglett's Cave does.
As for the umbrella project, here's an idea for a hierarchy:
Parent Descendant Sub-Descendant
Project World Project Locations Project Cities and Towns
Project Routes
Here's my reasoning for the World/Locations parentage. Let's say someone wants to start a project for PokéMarts (including the three department stores). Instead of being an orphan project, it would fall under the realm of Project World. Also, similar to Wikipedia's U.S. Roads project, which encompasses all states that don't have their own project, Project Locations would cover all areas not covered by Cities/Towns or Routes. Thoughts? --TMF T - C 01:25, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Actually, come to think of it, World is a bit too large - in a sense, Pokédex, MoveDex, and BerryDex would all fall under it as well - the only thing that wouldn't would be stuff like Project TCGDex and Project TFGDex. Maybe just stick with the Locations umbrella for now, and later consider something with an umbrella that large. --Pie 03:17, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree there, Project World would be more like a huge parent project for the games' separate things. But the sub-project Locations could be used for things like landmarks, which Viridian Forest, Union Cave, and several other not-really-routes fall under. Heck, sub-sub-project Landmarks could fit all of the blue-dot-things in, like Lavender Tower, Victory Road, Mt. Moon, Mt. Ember, Mt. Mortar, the Tin and Brass/Burned Towers...
However, I do think that some of the caves and such fall under designations as both landmarks and routes, like Ilex Forest and Rusturf Tunnel. We could include them as part of both, could we not? Likewise, Indigo Plateau could fall under both Landmark and City, since it's not a city in the strictest sense, but still not just a minor landmark, like Rock Tunnel. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TTEchidna (talkcontribs).

(back left) I think that we need to adopt a set standard on what landmarks should be considered routes. Here's my proposal:

  • Tunnels and paths (Jagged Path, Diglett's Cave, Rusturf Tunnel): Yes
  • Inter-route single-level caves/forests (Union Cave, Diglett's Cave (again), Ilex Forest): Yes
  • Inter-route multi-level caves (Mt. Moon, Meteor Falls): No
  • Intra-route caves/forests (Rock Tunnel, Viridian Forest, Petalburg Woods): No

Anything that is a "No" above would be covered by Project Locations, which is the new parent of Project Routes. Also, the List of locations by name needs a good amount of expanding.

BTW, Project Locations covers everything from Pokémon Tower (Lavender Tower) to Cerulean Cave to Viridian Forest. I'd consider Indigo a city, personally. I dunno why, but when I think of Indigo, I consider it a city, as it has a Poké Center and a PokéMart like other cities. --TMF T - C 19:53, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like a plan to me. And the only reason I said that Indigo could be both is because in GSC, it's only a red dot on the map, not a square like the other cities. And there's not much else there in all three generations besides the league. Speaking of Indigo Plateau, would the two Victory Roads fall under the same jurisdiction, since one's technically in the middle of a city, while the other's an intra-route cave? Do they have separate articles, even?
Also, oops, I forgot to sign it. I could've sworn I did... Ah well. Tildes away: Tom Temprotran 22:06, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Both Kanto Victory Roads wouldn't be routes under the above proposal. The Gen. I/III Victory Road is an intra-route cave located entirely within Route 23. The Gen. II Victory Road is an inter-route multi-level (in this case, two levels) cave.
I see your point completely regarding Indigo as a combo landmark/city. Still, I'd consider it a city, but that's just me. --TMF T - C 23:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Would that count for Hoenn's too, though? Since it's in the middle of a city. It'd be like the Brass and Tin Towers, right? Those are in the list, so I figured I'd put the two VRs there too.
Also, what're your thoughts on the Tin Tower Pokémon distribution? Do you think that it's good enough for when we get to the Whirl Islands as well, for Lugia, and for Cerulean Cave, Mewtwo? Would it work for anywhere that there's a legendary catchable? Tom Temprotran 00:34, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
That would count for Hoenn's as well, as it meets two of the "no" requirements: an intra-route (city) cave and it has multiple levels. So yep, the three Victory Roads would fall under the realm of Project Locations, not Project Routes (so their inclusion on the list of locations page is OK). For the Tin Tower Pokémon distribution, I would use "Event" rather than "Special Encounter" personally. Everything else looks fine, though you could probably get away with combining all of the tables into a single table. See Cerulean Cave and Pokémon Tower for how I set the tables up. Now I just have to add Mewtwo to the Cerulean Cave list... --TMF T - C 01:13, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

(back to the left) All right. I'll get right on it. And I've just noticed something... We don't have an article with the definition of Route. Maybe we should make it so that people will know jut what is and what isn't a route when new stuff's released. And yes, it looks much better. Now to do the easiest two ever: Terra and Marine Caves. Tom Temprotran 03:44, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

That's a good idea. I'll make the Route article, complete with the definitions agreed upon above. --TMF T - C 03:49, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Summary of infobox changes

Here's a brief summary of the changes I made to the infobox today:

  • For numbered routes, the region map now appears automatically. For named routes, parameter "regionmap" must still be set.
  • The region name in the "region" parameter no longer needs to be wikified upon entry into the box as it is now wikified by the template - in fact, by wikifying it, it disables the automatic map retrieval.
  • Region_special has been implemented for routes that span two regions (currently, this is limited to only Route 28).
  • The "junction" parameter can be omitted for routes that have no junctions. In its place, the word "None" will be displayed for junctions. --TMF T - C 22:17, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

And another that was made a couple of days ago:

  • The "alternate name" parameter is now optional.

A lot of routes need to be tweaked to match the new coding, specifically the region name needs to be delinked, the alternate name parameter can be omitted where it is not used and, for numbered routes, the regionmap entry can be removed. Comments and questions are welcome. --TMF T - C 22:09, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I tried a while back to implement some sort of way to indicate on which of the Sevii Islands the routes there were, in the same place as the alternate name thing, but it ended up messing things up, so I changed it back. Is there any way to make it do that without screwing up the regular routes? Tom Temprotran 02:11, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes, there is, and I just did it. =) The "sevii_island" parameter should work now with no problems or conflicts with "alternate_name". --TMF T - C 02:34, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Perfect. Now it'll be easier for people who can't tell which island is which. But should I put it as the number or as the name, Knot or One Island, for example. I've always considered the numbers to be the town names, and the names to be what all of the parts fall under. Tom Temprotran 18:45, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, we should use the number (One Island) for the town on the island and the name (Knot Island) for the island itself. --TMF T - C 21:34, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Okay. So that'll be something to do in a little while, stop redirects from One Island and such to the named one, and give the numbered one the town infobox and so on. Or else, we could just plop the infobox into the named island... It's your call. Should we un-redirect them all, then use One, Two, etc. for towns, and the others (Knot, Boon, etc.) as something like sub-regions? We might have to fix considerable numbers of pages which might rely on the redirect... Tom Temprotran 00:47, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Here's an idea. The numbered island pages (One Island, Two Island, etc.) should probably be converted to disambiguation pages. On the page, it'd be something like
One Island can refer to two locations in the Sevii Islands:
*The island known as One Island, officially named Knot Island.
*The town named One Island on Knot Island.
The city infoboxes would then be placed on the (town) articles. The location infoboxes would go on the Island articles. The only place where a disambiguation page isn't necessary would be Floe Island, where the town and the island are the one and same. --TMF T - C 01:28, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

(back left) Perfect. Works well enough that it'd not be too much of a problem to change the names in the templates on the Island Route articles. Tom Temprotran 23:25, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, the first of the disambiguation pages has been made at One Island. Once the articles are made for the towns on the islands (ex. "One Island (town)", "Two Island (town)", etc.), I'll convert the rest of the redirects to disambiguation pages (with the exception being Four Island, of course). --TMF T - C 00:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
And now, what colors to use for them? One Island's reddish, because of the island's relation to fire, and I'd have a light blue for Four Island, if we do that infobox there. Also, speaking of the Sevii Islands, should all nine go under locations? That'd even allow us to break apart Four Island and Floe Island, with Four Island falling under Cities and Towns, and Floe Island talking about Icefall Cave and such, like I've sort of modified Knot Island to do. I'm already putting Birth Island and Navel Rock as locations. Tom Temprotran 06:42, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, the islands themselves should be under locations. You make a good point with Four/Floe Island there, as I forgot about Icefall Cave earlier. Oops. So, as you stated, Floe Island would be a location while Four Island would be the town. Birth Island and Navel Rock should be locations, as there are no towns called Eight Island or Nine Island on them anyway (at least, not to my knowledge). For the colors, as you said, Islands 1 and 4 are pretty obvious. Two Island has the waterfall north of town (so maybe a deep pastel blue), for Three Island, the area is densely populated with forest (green), Five Island has the nearby meadow (light green?), Six Island has the Ruin Valley (maybe the cave color from the route infobox) and Seven Island has Sevault Canyon (maybe cave again?). Those are some of my ideas. --TMF T - C 07:53, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I think they're all good, but maybe we could have either Six or Seven be a lighter, more sandy-brown color, instead of the dark cave brown. And remember, Six is also made up of the Green and Water Paths, Pattern Bush, and Outcast Island, though Seven might be good with cave colors in the infobox. I did have a hard time choosing for Navel and Birth, though... And I wonder, are there yet redirect pages for Eight Island and Nine Island to them? If there aren't yet, that's what I'm doing next. Tom Temprotran 09:02, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Routes or not?

Here's a small grab bag of locations that I couldn't make up my mind on whether they are routes or not, along with my personal opinion. Thoughts and comments are welcome.

  • Ruins of Alph - No
  • National Park - No

--TMF T - C 03:18, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Those two are definitely more landmark than route, even though they have more than one entrance. And since the Ruins of Alph refers to the outside area as well as the Unown caves, it's different than, say, Tanoby Ruins vs Tanoby Chambers. Tanoby Ruins is more of a route... well, mostly for how it appears on the map. And what of Fiery Path, is it more a route or a location, since it only goes within Route 112, like Viridian Forest stays within Route 2. Seaside Cycling Road is certainly a route, as Cycling Road in Kanto is, even if it begins and ends on Route 110. Tom Temprotran 06:27, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Very good point regarding Fiery Path. The lazy answer would be to say point #1 of the route definition (tunnels and paths are routes) makes Fiery Path a route. But even at 2:30 AM Eastern, I won't be lazy. =) To me, this is more about perspective than anything else. Fiery Path, IMHO, is a route because it is a named road and it is a straight-forward, point A to point B path. This is different than Viridian Forest mostly because with Viridian Forest, a trainer has to make no less than 10 or so turns to traverse the area, plus if you're not careful, you could get lost in Viridian Forest. If someone gets lost in the Fiery Path, well, it's time to buy them a Town Map. =) --TMF T - C 06:35, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
A good point. Eh, I suppose it could count more as a route anyway, after all, in-game it's more mandatory than Mt. Moon is. Tom Temprotran 07:38, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
How about Three Isle Path? It goes within Three Isle Port, and only that. Location or Route? Tom Temprotran 21:40, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Three Isle Path could go either way IMO. It could be a location for being within a route or it could be a route in the way Fiery Path is. My personal preference would be to make it a route, since it's fairly easy to navigate and it is similar in nature to Fiery Path and (in composition, not where it links) to the Rusturf Tunnel. --TMF T - C 22:04, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
All right. I assumed as much. I just added it on the list, so an article'll be coming up as soon as I get done with the next couple. Tom Temprotran 03:13, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Tengan Mountain Range: Route or not, for future reference? I'm kinda... iffy on it. Maybe we should wait for D/P to come out and people to get that far? After all, it seems to be some sort of overland path, with Route 211 going through maybe a tunnel underneath... Should we leave it unclassified for now, then add it to whatever list we decide later? I mean, it might be something like the Sevii Routes, just named, instead of numbered as 231. Tom Temprotran 11:11, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I'd say wait until D/P are released before we classify where it falls under. That'd be the safest bet. --TMF T - C 23:58, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Remaining Johto Routes

I probably won't have the chance to really finish them up until this November, since I didn't bring a GBA or SP with, just my DS. However, the Hoenn and Sevii ones I'll definitely be working on when I get the chance. As I've been adjusting to college, I'd say that next weekend's when I'll certainly be back to my full capacity. I'll try getting out something during this weekend, though. Tom Temprotran 03:34, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Exciting news!

Check it out! Routes 201-230! That's 15 each. Won't be too hard to get everything Wiki'd up by the time the game comes stateside, I don't think.

...only problem is that there are no WORKING ROMs for DS, so we're kinda... eh, limited with the map we have. Hopefully there'll be a better-res version (preferribly in PNG) soon... Ah well. I'm updating the list of routes with this new info from Serebii... Tom Temprotran 06:46, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good. I've been on a "Bulbabreak" for three weeks, so I'm more than ready to get back to work. --TMF T - C 00:00, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, and I haven't really been doing many of the routes, I've mostly been working on the Shin'ō dex order. Tom Temprotran 19:06, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Meh...apparently I won't have as nearly as much time as I thought I would, so I probably won't be able to get back to work on the route articles for another couple of months. Sorry. --TMF T - C 01:48, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
It's all right. We don't need them all done completely immediately. Besides, this is a whole community of editors, it'll all get done eventually, and probably STILL before DP comes out here, no matter how many of us are missing. Don't be down on yourself because of it. Tom Temprotran 04:16, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

A new participant! Chosen!

I have the pages for Resort Gorgeous and Water Labyrinth up. Obviously, there are things missing, but I put up Items and put the Pokémon in.

Well, they're looking all right. They could use a few improvements, though. Gotta stress the use of the preview. Tom Temprotran 06:55, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


I know if we actually put the music itself onto the server, it might get us into real trouble, usage and space-wise. Well, I dunno, would it fall under fair use? Eh, it's a bit big anyway, so we can safely say no to it. However, route music is, to me, one of the most memorable parts of the Pokémon games. I mean, tell you the truth, I was extremely happy at the inclusion of the Route 42, 43, 44/Lake of Rage music in the Sevii Islands routes. So happy, I literally jumped up on hearing it, and just sat there and took it in.

But since this is an encyclopedia on all things Pokémon, why don't we include some sort of reference to what the route music is, such as a link to a page on the track itself, or routes/areas with similar music? It could go into the infobox, no problem, however... I'm crap at trying to set those in, and I'd like the opinions on the others in the project before saying "let's plow forward with this!" Tom Temprotran 09:12, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I feel the same way about the route music (and, yes, I was just as excited as soon as I set foot on a Sevii Island route and heard some of the early Johto music). I think the best way to do it would be to create an entry in the infobox with a link to the "track", then create a page for the track that can mention what routes the track is used on. What the pages for the track should be called, I have no idea as, at least as far as I know, the tracks have no name. I could be wrong, though. --TMF Let's Go Mets - Stats 13:53, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
They have names according to the official CDs of the music... However, those are merely a reference to the Japanese names of the towns and such. For example, Routes 13, 14, and 15 are listed as "Road to Sekichiku - from Shion Town", and Oak's lab is listed as "Okido Research Institute". We could do it like the Japanese anime episodes' names, with the names as Japanese, but using the tt template for their English translation.
The only potential problems I see arising are from Nanashima, which is the name, according to the track, of the route music for the late Sevii routes. As you might know, Nanashima is the name for the Sevii Islands themselves. That'd be a problem if we were to have redirects from Japanese place names to their English-language counterparts, as we do with some. Tom Temprotran 08:10, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it would be a good idea just to have a little section on each Route artcile entitled "Music" and a rough description of what the music is like. For example, the Music section for Route 1 could say something like this: The background music played on Route 1 is a cheerful, bouncy tune. The same music can also be heard on Route 2 in Generations I and III. Taromon777 11:51, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


I don't know if anybody noticed this, but for Fiore locations, East Road was listed, but North Road was not, so I added it.

Pokémon Lists

New proposal for the Pokémon Lists.

The current one (taken from Route 6), would be...

Name Games Location Levels Rate
Pidgey R B Grass 13-16 35%
Y Grass 15-17 45%
Pidgeotto Y Grass 17 5%
Rattata Y Grass 14-16 25%
Jigglypuff Y Grass 3-7 10%
Oddish R Grass 13-16 40%
Meowth B Grass 10-16 25%
Mankey R Grass 10-16 25%
Psyduck Y Surfing 15 95%
Golduck Y Surfing 15 5%
Poliwag R B Y Good Rod 10 50%
Abra Y Grass 7 15%
Bellsprout B Grass 13-16 40%
Shellder R B Super Rod 15 50%
Goldeen R B Y Good Rod 10 50%
Y Super Rod 5-20 100%
Krabby R B Super Rod 15 50%
Magikarp R B Y Old Rod 5 100%

Why don't we make it a little more readable by doing...

Generation I

Name Games Location Levels Rate
Pidgey R B Grass 13-16 35%
Y Grass 15-17 45%
Pidgeotto Y Grass 17 5%
Rattata Y Grass 14-16 25%
Jigglypuff Y Grass 3-7 10%
Oddish R Grass 13-16 40%
Meowth B Grass 10-16 25%
Mankey R Grass 10-16 25%
Abra Y Grass 7 15%
Bellsprout B Grass 13-16 40%
Poliwag R B Y Good Rod 10 50%
Shellder R B Super Rod 15 50%
Goldeen R B Y Good Rod 10 50%
Y Super Rod 5-20 100%
Krabby R B Super Rod 15 50%
Magikarp R B Y Old Rod 5 100%
Psyduck Y Surfing 15 95%
Golduck Y Surfing 15 5%

Dunstvangeet 18:09, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Kinda redundant to say "surfing" and "fishing" when it says it in the line anyway, plus the morning/day/night things would screw things up. Perhaps coloring the location column would help, you tell me. TTEchidna 01:59, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

End of Routes

I have been wondering about this, and this seems like the best place to ask. I'm talking about the end of Routes. For example, on the Route 1 page it says:

North end: Routes 2/22 in Viridian

However, I find this to be wrong. Routes end when they run into another route (like Route 22 ending at the beginning of Route 23), or a town. Route 1 ends when it enters Viridian City, it does not go into the city, nor do any of the other routes, so why are many routes listed like this?

----HoennMaster 03:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Spinner008's Corner

I went and hacked out the encounter rates for all the Gen I games, and I can confirm that the Japanese Red and Green are the same as the English Red and Blue. The Japanese Blue has some different rates in most places though; is there a way for that to be added to the current look? Spinner008 07:54, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

All the towns in Johto have been adapted to the new look for the encounter rates. Is there a way that I don't know about for doing multi-row Pokémon (like Pidgey on Route 29)? Giving them each their own row looks too cluttered. Spinner008 07:54, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, if it somehow is different, I just put them in twice, once for GS, once for C. TTEchidna 14:13, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
I went and updated Route 29. Doesn't it look weird, though? It'll probably look even weirder the bigger the tables are, especially things like the Kanto Safari Zone and etc. But, I don't have any solutions on how to fix it, and if everyone else likes it the way it is, then that's not a problem. Spinner008 18:39, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Eh, it looks fine. After all, the wild Pokémon have separate entries in the games' ROMs... TTEchidna 22:33, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Relatedly, we still do not have the catch rates for the Japanese version of Blue; Spinner008, you said you had obtained them. Can you post a list/table/dump/whatever of all the information please? MK 23:54, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Heheh! Kinda been away for a while. I've been meaning to finish up adding my data for GSC, if no one else has done it yet. I've also got the Japanese Blue encounter data, if anyone wants it (or if the templates give me a way to do it myself). :) Spinner008 08:39, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


Pokémon appearing in the wild have their own template for which games they appear in, eg for Route 204:

Pokémon Games Location Levels Rate
Sunkern Sunkern
D P Pt
Poké Radar Poké Radar
6,8 22% 22% 22%
Larvitar Larvitar
D P Pt
Swarm Swarm
7 66% 66% 66%
Lotad Lotad
D P Pt
Sapphire Dual-slot
8 18% 18% 18%
A colored background means that the Pokémon can be found in this location in the specified game. A white background with a colored letter means that the Pokémon cannot be found here.

The "Games" column in this template gives the editor the ability to highlight in which versions they feature, while blocking out the others.

However, the trainers seem to have been abandoned somewhat. There is currently no template to combine the "Games" column of the above template with the Trainerentry table. Currently the most satisfactory way to show intra-generational differences, like those between Ruby and Sapphire and Emerald, is to bracket the changes in Emerald alongside the trainer's pokémon in Ruby & Sapphire, which does not parallel the standards set by the neat wild pokémon table, as seen on Route 102. Surely, for consistency, a template based on the old Trainerentry one, but including the "Games" column found in the Catchentry table, needs to be introduced to allow differences between trainers on RS/E and DP/Pt? H4r8z0r 09:50, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Eh, well, since it's very rare for trainers in an area to differ by much, if at all, between paired and third games... I'm kinda hesitant. How much of a difference in how many areas are there? TTEchidna 20:32, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
Well, as far as I've got with Platinum (Cycling Road), over 75% of battles involve different pokémon, levels and winnings to those for the same trainer on DP... So, basically, every Route up to & including R206, aswell as the gyms. Eg, Youngster Logan of Route 202 has his Shinx replaced by a Burmy in Platinum. On Emerald, the differences are few, and the R102 ones are largely exceptional cases. As for Yellow and Crystal, the differences are limited simply to the main characters (Leaders, Rivals and standard gym trainers). Still, if they've started changing trainers' pokémon for Gen IV third games, they'll no doubt carry it through into the future... H4r8z0r 21:09, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


I should point out for trainers found on the route for Ruby and Sapphire, the amount of money the player receives as well as the Pokémon levels are different in Emerald and already prior to joining this project I personally fished some of these errors on the Route pages out and corrected them. Just want people to know this. -Tyler53841 03:25, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Route exploration requirements

I posted this idea on the main talk page, but I am bringing it up here as well, just to double check. The idea was that I would add a new section to all of the Route articles, listing the requirements to fully explore the area (HMs, bicycles etc), so that people could see what they needed at a glance. I added this info to Kanto's routes, but some users said that it shouldn't have its own section in the article, and should be a sub-category in Route Description instead. I started adding the info to Route Description, but then someone advised me to stop for the time being, until the administrators had decided on the best place for the info. So I thought I'd check here, and see what everyone thinks! (If you want to see what I've done so far, have a look at the Kanto route articles. I won't be editing any more route articles until further notice.) Taromon 12:34, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

A new section is not needed for this. The main two reasons why me and the other administrators don't want this section to be added is:
  1. It looks messy. Lets face it, some articles will have a list of one HM and that's all. It hardly seems worth the space. We are trying to get rid of these extremely short lists.
  2. Bulbapedia is not a walkthrough. So we can't go, "Make sure you have a Pokemon that has learnt cut so you can get past the trees."
As I have said numerous times, add it to the "Geography"/"Route description" section of the article, or perhaps we can incorporate into the template somehow. But having its own section is not right. As Kogsy had said early, we will discuss this further.--Clarky13 14:17, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Ah, sorry, I thought you meant add a sub-category in route description, not just to add it to part of the route description! Adding it to the template sounds like a good idea, though. Taromon 14:53, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Trainer Rematches subpage?

I'm curious if there would be interest in adding a subpage to display trainer rematches for each route. It doesn't make sense to put all that data on the route page, but eventually it would be cool to have all the trainer rematch info (pokemon, levels, etc.) recorded somewhere. Something like Route_10/trainer_rematches. Good idea? Bad idea? --PagodaGiftShop 22:03, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Isshu route naming

I created a page for users to give their opinions about how Isshu's routes will be handled (they start over at Route 1): Bulbapedia:Isshu route naming. --Shiny Noctowl 02:58, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Route 1 (Isshu) draft

I've started a draft article for Isshu's Route 1; you can add any newly-revealed information to it. --Shiny Noctowl 03:31, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


Should we make redirects for "rt 1" etc.? →ΑΧΧΟΝΝfire 02:19, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

No. —darklordtrom 03:10, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Shiny Leaf

I mentioned this on the Shiny Leaf talk page, and it would be really useful and increase the quality of HGSS Route articles, if, someone added a section which could tell which natures can find shiny leaves onto the route template. ----Desukaan563's userpage has a Value Formula to measure Pokémon worth (talk) 04:36, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

This would fit nicely as a subsection of the "Items" section. —darklordtrom 06:20, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Required for navigation

What makes an HM move "required for navigation?" I'm asking because I just noticed that Route 228 has places where surf can be used but doesn't list surf as "required for navigation". sumwun (talk) 04:51, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Return to the project page "Project Routes".