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WOW!!! Though your new, you put up a very good, strong point in arguements! I congratulate you on that! You should start making edits on regular pages, not just talk pages. Good Job!!! --[[Image:Spr 3e 059.gif|70px]][[Image:Spr 3e 132.gif]]'''[[User:Theryguy512|<span style="color:#FF7F00">Theryguy</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">5</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">1</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Games|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">2</span>]]''' [[Image:Trozeiani025.gif]] 22:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
WOW!!! Though your new, you put up a very good, strong point in arguements! I congratulate you on that! You should start making edits on regular pages, not just talk pages. Good Job!!! --'''[[User:Theryguy512|<span style="color:#FF7F00">Theryguy</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">5</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Mission Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">1</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Games|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">2</span>]]''' 22:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


== Errors ==
== Errors ==
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:::''Yes, he is. Misty and the others are main characters but the anime basically revolves around Ash. ESPECIALLY in the original series in which you keep insisting Misty is the center of the series. What did Misty do? Was it Misty who competed in the Gym Battles? Was it Misty who competed in the Pokémon League? Was it Misty who was deciding where they were heading next? She was basically a character like Brock, Tracey, and Max are. One of Ash's friends who follows him and really doesn't do anything that greatly impacts the direction of the series. This does not mean that they are not important but they are basically behind Ash and are not his equal in anyway. The beginning of the Japanese openings never said "Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi". They always said "Satoshi". It wasn't until the Diamond and Pearl that it was changed to "Satoshi and Hikari". It was the Advanced Generation were they decided to share the main point of the series with another character, May. ''
:::''Yes, he is. Misty and the others are main characters but the anime basically revolves around Ash. ESPECIALLY in the original series in which you keep insisting Misty is the center of the series. What did Misty do? Was it Misty who competed in the Gym Battles? Was it Misty who competed in the Pokémon League? Was it Misty who was deciding where they were heading next? She was basically a character like Brock, Tracey, and Max are. One of Ash's friends who follows him and really doesn't do anything that greatly impacts the direction of the series. This does not mean that they are not important but they are basically behind Ash and are not his equal in anyway. The beginning of the Japanese openings never said "Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi". They always said "Satoshi". It wasn't until the Diamond and Pearl that it was changed to "Satoshi and Hikari". It was the Advanced Generation were they decided to share the main point of the series with another character, May. ''


Actually, she did greatly impact the series, as if it wasn't for her, Ash would have DIED. Since you guys are saying that he IS the Anime, then, if it wasn't for her, the anime would have ended right then and there. Besides, the only time relating to battles where the focus was undeniably on Ash was in the Leagues (The Gyms are debatable, as the Gym episodes seemed to focus more on the characters appearing than on Ash himself, or in the case of the Rudy Gym Episode, focused almost exclusively on Misty.). Besides, the point of the poll was how much screentime she really got compared to the Girls, and to be honest, I wasn't even anticipating the results to be as high as it was.
:::Actually, she did greatly impact the series, as if it wasn't for her, Ash would have DIED. Since you guys are saying that he IS the Anime, then, if it wasn't for her, the anime would have ended right then and there. Besides, the only time relating to battles where the focus was undeniably on Ash was in the Leagues (The Gyms are debatable, as the Gym episodes seemed to focus more on the characters appearing than on Ash himself, or in the case of the Rudy Gym Episode, focused almost exclusively on Misty.). Besides, the point of the poll was how much screentime she really got compared to the Girls, and to be honest, I wasn't even anticipating the results to be as high as it was.


:::''You seem to be misunderstanding what I meant. I didn't mean every single episode is Ash focused. I'm saying that the anime in general is Ash focused.''
:::''You seem to be misunderstanding what I meant. I didn't mean every single episode is Ash focused. I'm saying that the anime in general is Ash focused.''
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:::No I wasn't. And anyways, if Ash was truly the center of the show as you claim, please explain to me why the writers actually considered replacing Ash twice. You know exactly what I mean, the special Raikou: The Legend of Thunder was released midway through Johto, where Ash wasn't even in that special, period, much less the Main Character, and some fans even stated that the special was a prototype for a series that wouldn't have involved Ash at all. Later, they revealed a Poster advertizing for a DP anime that had Dawn, Dawn, and Dawn alone on it, absolutely no sign of Ash on it, period. Some of the fanbase thought they were actually replacing Ash for the series because of that (and Dogasu even admitted that the reasoning behind the belief was legitimate). Now granted, they decided to keep Ash on, but the mere fact that they even thought of that special and making that Poster in that way implies that the writers felt that even Ash was expendable, which implies that, even back in the original series, Ash wasn't the star of the show (The writers wouldn't even THINK of doing the Raikou special if they felt that Ash was truly the star of the show.). So who's being more biased now? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 14:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:::No I wasn't. And anyways, if Ash was truly the center of the show as you claim, please explain to me why the writers actually considered replacing Ash twice. You know exactly what I mean, the special Raikou: The Legend of Thunder was released midway through Johto, where Ash wasn't even in that special, period, much less the Main Character, and some fans even stated that the special was a prototype for a series that wouldn't have involved Ash at all. Later, they revealed a Poster advertizing for a DP anime that had Dawn, Dawn, and Dawn alone on it, absolutely no sign of Ash on it, period. Some of the fanbase thought they were actually replacing Ash for the series because of that (and Dogasu even admitted that the reasoning behind the belief was legitimate). Now granted, they decided to keep Ash on, but the mere fact that they even thought of that special and making that Poster in that way implies that the writers felt that even Ash was expendable, which implies that, even back in the original series, Ash wasn't the star of the show (The writers wouldn't even THINK of doing the Raikou special if they felt that Ash was truly the star of the show.). So who's being more biased now? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 14:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
You know Weedle, Ash IS the main character of the show. That doesn't mean he has to get the focus in ''every'' episode. It's on his goals that the anime revolves around not on any other characters. Its been like that since the beginning of the series. Ash always seems to be there when everyone else isn't. And the part about Misty saving Ash, do you really think a main character would '''die'''? That's never going to happen. Sure they may be life-threatening moments but they would never ''die''.
Naruto is a perfect example of being the main character but not given the focus in every episode. Its just like that with Ash. [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''Jm'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #000099">'''a'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''th'''</span>]] 15:38, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:I really don't think your experiment should have been done in the mainspace--[[User:RexRacer|'''<font color="#E7CE6B">Rex</font>]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|<font color="#42528C">Racer</font>''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''<font color="#FF5A00"><small>''-talk''</small></font>''']] 15:53, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:Technically, he did die, twice. In the episode "The Tower of Terror", Haunter took Ash and Pikachu's souls out of their bodies after they caused the Chandelier to fall on them. The second time was in the first movie, where, after Ash got in the way of Mewtwo and Mew's attack, he turned to stone, couldn't awaken, and the only reason he was even alive now was because of the tears and he was, both clinically and truly, up to the point of the tears, dead. So, yes, they did "Kill" Ash. 
:Anyways, not focusing on him is one thing, as there were plenty of episodes in the original series (a bit too much if you really think about it, even WITHOUT Misty), that didn't actually focus on him. No, my point was they not only were he was '''not''' focused upon in the ''[[The Legend of Thunder]]'' special, but he didn't even appear in it, period. A similar thing happened when they revealed that they had plans of making a DP Anime. They unveiled a poster of it, and the way they unveiled Dawn for the first time ever made it seem as though she was not only replacing Ash, but that Ash was NOT going to be appearing in the anime. That's my point. I mean, think about it, Even IF the writers didn't give Ash the focus in every single episode, if they felt that Ash was the Be-all-end-all of the show, why would they do [[The Legend of Thunder|a special]] that didn't even have a cameo from Ash, or a Promotional Poster for DP that focused on Dawn alone, and made it seem as though Ash was going to leave the Anime, and Dawn would take up the mantle of the star of the show. I mean, in the DP poster's case, it was one of the biggest discussions at the time. Those, to me, implied that the writers viewed even Ash as expendable.
:As for that comment for RexRacer, care to suggest where else I could put this experiment then? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:02, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Sure at the time of the poster, people may have thought Ash was going to be replaced but the writers never specifically stated it. They may have been referencing the fact that a new girl is going to play a important role in the anime not as in being the only one. And Ash could not be in the Raikou special since he was at Hoenn at the time and the special happened in Johto. And you can't say from one incident that Ash is expendable. Again, I state the example of Naruto. There have been episodes in which he hasn't appeared at all.
Sure Ash may have kinda "died" but he always came back almost immediately instead of staying dead. Which means a ''lot''. [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''Jm'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #000099">'''a'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''th'''</span>]] 16:14, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:No, The Raikou Special actually took place (And AIRED in Japan, don't bring Chronicles into it) between Hatching a Plan, and Dues and Don'ts. And it wasn't a chronicles episode (Heck, Pokemon Hoso hadn't even been aired yet.). They even referenced several parts involving the special in the Johto League when Ash fought Jackson/Vincent.). As for referencing a new girl, They had a poster showing a new character named May and they had Ash with her as well when it was first unveiled, so that cannot be it.
:As for Naruto, were these main episodes, or were these episodes from a spinoff series similar to Hoso/Chronicles? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:31, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Okay whatever. That doesn't mean that one special is enough to disprove Ash's status. The characters of the special hasn't been given a major appearance ever since then except Vincent but he appeared for one episode anyway. And for the poster thing, Dawn is kinda more important than May was. In all the DP movies, she is given equal importance with Ash unlike May who was only given importance in '''1''' movie.
::And the Naruto episodes were the main ones. I don't know if there were spinoffs but it doesn't matter. [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''Jm'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #000099">'''a'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''th'''</span>]] 16:43, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:::I think that a member of BMGf by the name of Rhyperior pointed out that it was Ash who saved Alamos/The world in Movie 10, and that Dawn ultimately took the back seat, anyways (The only remotely important thing that she did within the movie was save Ash) as it was Ash who told Pikachu and Pachirisu to reactivate the device, according to him, thus saving the world/Alamos, and he also scolded Palkia. Also, in the Shaymin Movie, other than the fact that she and brock tried to stop the Glacier (which even then, they weren't even the ones who actually stopped it, it was Regigigas), she didn't really do much. I mean, did she pair up with Ash and the two of them together, along with Shaymin, Muten, and Giratina, utterly defeat Zero? No, Ash was the one who ended up stopping him once and for all. So, in actuality, she actually had the same role May did, meaning she never was important to begin with. And, arguably, May wasn't given any importance in any movies, considering the fact that the climax of the 9th movie had her act like a total coward and didn't even attempt to save Manaphy (Instead, it was Ash who ended up saving the day, as usual.). So, in any case, I still say that Ash was expendable, as the character didn't appear, and the special, according to many, was a test to see what Audiences would feel, which implies that they had plans to replace Ash. Plus, the Poster, not to mention. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Ash and Dawn were both on the tower activating the music device not Ash alone. It wasn't just Ash's Pikachu but Dawn's Pachirisu that also helped in it. In the Giratina movie, both Ash ''and'' Dawn went to the Reverse World not just Ash alone. She interacted with Shaymin almost as much as Ash. And how could you say May wasn't given any importance in the 9th movie? Its not about how she acted. A main plot point in the movie was May interacting with Manaphy and treating it like its mother. Whatever she did in the movie near the end doesn't matter since their relationship was shown for a major portion of the movie.
::::And like I said before, the writers haven't made any move to remove Ash from the story. The special is a seperate entity with its characters almost never appearing again in the anime. They may have looked to have tried a few attempts to remove him but the fact that they keep bringing Ash back show that he IS important. [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''Jm'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #000099">'''a'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''th'''</span>]] 17:46, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::Sigh, look, if you want to mention this to anyone, tell it to Rhyperior, assuming you are also a member of BMGf, all I did was just quote him. As for the part about the Reverse World, I know they both were in the Reverse world in the first visit, but during the second visit, it was Ash, and Ash alone who defeated Zero once and for all (Dawn was stuck trying to stop the glacier that, in the end, only Regigigas was able to stop, remember?). I mean, the summary of that movie even stated this.
:::::As for your point as to how she raised and interacted with Manaphy in the movie, if the same deal with Misty interacting with Togepi wasn't even considered even remotely important despite some episodes focusing on Togepi, then, Titular pokemon or not, her interacting with Manaphy isn't important either.
:::::As for thinking he's important, so what, Brock stays on the show for barely as long as Ash has, and he's not even as important as him, so Episode lengths aren't a detemining factor. And anyways, in order for someone to be a central character, not only do they NOT replace the character, they also are unable to even think about replacing it (Which, at least twice, they did think of replacing him.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 17:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Ash hasn't been replaced in the main anime. That's what matters not some random special. The anime is more important than the Chronicles or the raikou special. Its even more imortant than the movies. I know Brock has been there for a good portion of the series but he doesn't do that much anyway. This is Ash's story not anyone else's since he is in every episode.
Misty has interacted with Togepi to what extent in the movies? She practically just holds it for a major portion of the movies. May did a ''lot'' with Manaphy. It also helps that Manaphy is the titular Pokémon for the movie.
:Let's see, she fed it, she discovered some of it's metronome abilities, had it fight against Pikachu at one point, heck, her Togepi was also integral to defeating Colonel Hanson and reclaiming the Togepi Paradise. Besides, if we want to get technical, what did May ''actually'' do with it. She also, for the most part, held it, and heck, when it got kidnapped, what did she do? just stand there!
:They may not have done it, but they have certainly thought about it. I mean sure, they didn't replace him, but the point was they thought about replacing him. And anyways, considering how they referred to that special in the main series, anyways, it's a main series episode in and of itself. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 18:21, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::I am talking about the movies. Misty hasn't done anything with Togepi in a movie. Sure Togepi has had its share of screentime in the anime but only in a few episodes. Out of the entire Johto season, Togepi might have had only less than 10 episodes that truly concentrate on it. It did ''nothing'' for the rest.
::And as long as Ash isn't replaced and keep appearing in every episode, he is the main character. [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''Jm'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #000099">'''a'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''th'''</span>]] 18:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Just so you guys know, the fact that this conversation is taking place is hilarious. I don’t even see why we have these categories that are almost solely based on opinion; it’s not as if we don’t have enough categories already (over two ''thousand''). [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 19:08, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:Well, in the Movies case, I can name one thing it did. It was implied that Togepi was the one who freed Zapdos and Moltres, as we saw it doing that "metronome" arm wave thing when Tracey told everyone to get down in regards to the whole Fire, Water, and Electricity combinations = an explosion. (In case you don't recall that scene, it's because 4Kids cut the scene out when they localized the film.). Besides, what did May do with Manaphy, anyways? I mean, she didn't battle with it (which is what the fanbase thinks of when they say "doing anything" in regards to a character.). And even IF Ash is the main character, the template already listed Brock, Misty, May, Dawn, and even the likes of Tracey, Max, and Todd as main characters, so either way, he's not THE main character (He's only A main character.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:55, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Again I state, as long as Ash keeps appearing in every episode in the main anime, he is the main character. Once he gets replaced, at least for a few episodes, then I will agree with you. [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''Jm'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #000099">'''a'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''th'''</span>]] 08:17, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
== The reason ==
The reason why Brock, Tracey, and Misty had information about them getting replaced is because a staff member from the show actually explained the situation. The Dawn replacing Ash thing is all fan speculation and no one from the show EVER said that they were considering replacing Ash. --[[Tracey Sketchit|<span style="color:#33CC66;">'''ケンジ'''</span>]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#6600CC;">'''の'''</span>]][[User:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#FF00CC;">'''ガール'''</span>]] 21:52, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
:So What?! The GSDS article was still fan speculation in and of itself, and yet you freely chose to keep it on despite that. Heck, the whole Misty issue was actually placed into Misty's article BEFORE Masamitsu Hidaka's revalation. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
== Edit War ==
Thank goodness you guys somehow resolved it...under normal circumstances, you both would be blocked, depending on the amount of edits against...keep that in mind next time... [[User:Ht14|<span style="color:#CC0000"><sup>''ht''</sup></span>]][[User talk:Ht14|<span style="color:#00CC00"><small>''14''</small></span>]] 14:02, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
:I was just trying to put that out due to the fact that the circumstances of whether capturing them was the cause of the events of the second movie or if it was just territorial disputes (since the film implied that both were the cause.), and besides which, none of the Other times a Legendary bird was captured did a weather anamoly occur, which I pointed out with the events of Jack Walker capturing that Zapdos and riding it, as well as the fact that, other than the lake being almost a biological hazard, it's near-death didn't impact the weather. Jmath had to insist that they controlled the weather just because Lawrence III set the chain of events in motion (Even though Zapdos explicitly told Pikachu that it was conquering Fire Island, which definitely implied that Territorial disputes were a main cause of the events.) {{Unsigned|Weedle Mchairybug}}
::It doesn't matter. We resolved it. [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''Jm'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #000099">'''a'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''th'''</span>]] 14:13, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
== Pokémon ==
Pokémon is not spelled "pokemon", it's "Pokémon". [[User:Chocolate|<font color="6D351A">Chocolate</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Chocolate|<font color="6D351A">Chat with Me</font>]])</small> 23:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:I'm not sure if you should changed Haunter, but if you were to do it, you msut remember to chang it on Ash's page to be consistence.--[[Bulbapedia:Project Custom Sprite|<font color="brown"><small><sup>☆</sup></small></font>]][[User:Tavisource|<font color="teal">Tavis</font>]][[User talk:Tavisource|<font color="gray"><small>ource</small></font>]] 00:09, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
== Your trivia ==
The fact that multiple admins have reverted your edits to High Touch should be an indication that it is not needed. Please stop adding the information, as it is not relevant to anything. --[[User:PAK Man|PAK Man]] <sup>[[User talk:PAK Man|Talk]]</sup> 22:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
== That trivia ==
Let's put it this way...Take a small 5-6 year old kid. Ask him/her to do some advanced mathematics. Do you really expect the kid to suddenly do it. He just won't understand what you're saying to him. Does that make him disobedient??? Same with Psyduck. I don't remember any time where Psyduck actually battled with any determination to win. Its just basically clueless and once it gets a headache, it just releases its power. Chimchar also doesn't fall in the disobedient category. [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''Jm'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #000099">'''a'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''th'''</span>]] 14:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:It's disobedient, no matter whether it's intentional or not. Besides, if you want to get technical, Chimchar, during the events of ''[[DP081|Chim-Charred]]'', was very similar to Psyduck, and yet is also listed in it's trivia section as being the second fire type belonging to Ash that disobeyed him (and fourth of Ash's Pokemon overall to disobey him), the first being Charizard. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::It's not disobedient because of ignorance, it's disobedient because of stupidity. That's different. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 15:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Were you talking to me or to Jmath? BTW, were you for the part of relocating of that trivia to it's own bit? Because it was still disobediance, therefore, Dawn's only the second main character other than Ash to have a disobedient pokemon, regardless of whether it's clueless or deliberate. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 15:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::::I know I'm just getting involved because of RC watching, but my two cents is--who cares?  Will this "(Character) is the (n)th person shown to have a Pokémon, in this case (whoever), disobey" format continue for ALL disobedient Pokés? If so, that seems...kinda unnecessary. -- '''[[User:evkl|<span style="color:#000099">evkl</span>]]''' <sub>[[User_talk:evkl|<span style="color:#006699">(need to talk?)</span>]]</sub> 15:57, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Well, I guess you might as well remove most of those things in Dawn's Trivia section, since almost half of it just compares her to some characters. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:03, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Read my first post. Its NOT disobedient. [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''Jm'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #000099">'''a'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''th'''</span>]] 20:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:Look, Obedience means following orders. It doesn't matter if the character is rebellious or just plan clueless, if they don't follow orders, they're disobedient. it's that simple. It's a moot point anyways, since Kenji-girl, one of the high ranking members of the site, has already stated that, whether he was intending to be disobedient or not, it still counted as a disobedient pokemon, and therefore, Dawn's only the second main character aside from Ash to own a Disobedient pokemon. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 20:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::Could you blame a child for being disobedient for not knowing advanced mathematics??? Then why don't people punish them or something? [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''Jm'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #000099">'''a'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''th'''</span>]] 22:58, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::When did Ash actually punish Charizard? when did Dawn actually punish her Mamoswine? I don't recall them actually punishing their pokemon. In fact, the only character whom I would say actually punishes pokemon would be Paul. And anyways, no matter how hard you argue, unless you have another mod on your side, it's already written that Misty already owned a disobedient pokemon before Dawn ever appeared on the show (and considering how, like you, she also thought I obssess about Misty, that's saying quite a lot.) [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:04, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::::Sure...Its real smart to punish powerhouses like Mamoswine and Charizard. They are going to eat you alive! And you still haven't answered my question. [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''Jm'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #000099">'''a'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''th'''</span>]] 23:08, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Mamoswine is a vegetarian, so it can't eat dawn even if it wanted to (It's based off of the Wooly Mammoth, a herbivore.). You do have a good point on Charizard, though, though then again, Paul was known to punish any of his most powerful pokemon (I mean, he probably was going to do something bad to his Torterra when found oud it was teaching Ash's Grotle how to improve itself.). Anyways, I thought that question about Charizard and Mamoswine WAS my answer. either way, please stop, as Kenji-Girl had already agreed with me about the entire thing about Misty being the first main character other than Ash to own a disobedient pokemon. If you have a problem with it, take it to her. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:19, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
I looked up "disobedience" and it means '''willful''' refusal to follow orders. Chimchar and Psyduck both don't fall in this category. That proves your point wrong. [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''Jm'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #000099">'''a'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''th'''</span>]] 23:23, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
:even still, she still agreed with me, as, willful or not, it still didn't follow orders. Again, I suggest you take the complaint to Kenji Girl, as she was the one who agreed with my views and put the thing in. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 23:25, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
::So what? We have proof that Psyduck didn't "disobey". And Kenji-girl probably didn't know the exact meaning of the word. (I didn't until I looked it up) [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''Jm'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #000099">'''a'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Jmath|<span style="color: #000033">'''th'''</span>]] 23:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
== Look ==
No matter how you twist it, it's still speculation. I've protected the talk page for now so it doesn't suffer anymore clutter. Now find something useful to do besides arguing with everyone. No one agrees with you. It's speculation. You can't compare speculation to fandom and fansite articles. So knock it off already. --[[Tracey Sketchit|<span style="color:#33CC66;">'''ケンジ'''</span>]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#6600CC;">'''の'''</span>]][[User:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#FF00CC;">'''ガール'''</span>]] 02:25, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:Even IF everyone agreed with me, it's still speculation. And besides, Wikis ALSO have a code where they DON'T allow Fanwank on them. Also, Pokeshipping is still speculation, which means it shouldn't even exist on Bulbapedia. Besides, how is that confirmation from Hidaka not speculation. Heck, if I made something up in regards to my company and what we were doing, REGARDLESS if I was a CEO or not, I'm still speculating. This only proves that you don't know what speculation is, or even if you did, you're too arrogant to actually see it. I mean, heck, even you yourself bring in speculation into articles, should you be removed due to that? [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:31, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:P.S. Another thing, seeing how WPM has actually BEEN with him, AND has had actual experience with the interview, it's NOT speculation. I mean, in order for it to be speculation on WPM's part, he has to not have been there, and only have heard of it. Even IF it were actually speculation, by that logic, seeing how the writers make mistakes in their judgement most of the time, even someone who works for the Pokemon Company/Gamefaqs is speculating, seeing how even they themselves don't know what's truly in store. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:36, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
::Why do I even waste time talking to you?
:#Shipping has its own space. We warn that it contains speculation.
:#If Hidaka actually confirmed something by speaking, such as the reason why Tracey replaced Brock, than it's not speculation. If he has a weird reaction to a question and you assume its because he's not allowed to speak of Platinum, than it is speculation. I don't care how much experience WPM has with interviewing people. He's not psychic. His thoughts are not confirmation.
:#I know what speculation is. You apparently can't tell the difference between fanon and speculation.
:#What speculation do I bring? Please show me. Not counting Shipping of course. --[[Tracey Sketchit|<span style="color:#33CC66;">'''ケンジ'''</span>]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#6600CC;">'''の'''</span>]][[User:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#FF00CC;">'''ガール'''</span>]] 02:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
::What are you talking about? I wasn't saying that he wasn't allowed to speak of Platinum. I was saying he didn't know about platinum. If anyone was actually saying he was not allowed to talk about Platinum, it was J-J-M. Stop crediting/blaming things on me that I didn't even do!
::And I don't care if Hidaka WAS the original director or not, What he says still counts as speculation, because he doesn't have absolute knowledge of the franchise.
::As for things like... your speculations, other than the Shipping part, you've speculated on comparisons between sonic characters and pokemon characters. Personally, I don't see why Shipping shouldn't count. I mean, if it's speculation, it's speculation, and if the rules absolutely forebade speculation, then Shipping articles shouldn't exist, period, no matter what your stance on them is. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 02:55, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::LOL that's what you're talking about? Those comparisons are on my USERPAGE. Userpages are NOT part of the mainspace. Neither is Shipping. Masamitsu Hidaka IS on the mainspace. Now I get it. You clearly don't know the difference between userpages and mainpages. Hey if you want to mention your speculation on whether he knew of Platinum or not, put it on your userpage. That would be acceptable. --[[Tracey Sketchit|<span style="color:#33CC66;">'''ケンジ'''</span>]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#6600CC;">'''の'''</span>]][[User:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#FF00CC;">'''ガール'''</span>]] 03:03, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::@Weedle-SHIPPING HAS ITS OWN SPACE. HOW MANY TIMES DOES SHE HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT? ''IT'S NOT IN THE MAINSPACE. NEITHER ARE USERSPACES''. AND TAKE AN ENGLISH CLASS! WITH ALL THOSE GRAMMATICAL MISTAKES, NO WONDER EVERYONE HATES YOU! DAMMIT FIND SOMETHING MORE CONSTRUCTIVE TO DO THAN F***ING ARGUING WITH EVERYONE, YOU...
@KG-What userpage? He doesn't even have one. [[User:Alpha Totodile|<span style="color:green;">'''Alpha'''</span>]] [[User talk:Alpha Totodile|<span style="color:blue;">'''Totodile'''</span>]]
::::Now now, everyone, let's respect the {{bp|code of conduct|COC}}. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#DAA520">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">chidna</span>]]''' 00:38, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
== éééééééééééé ==
Use the '''é'''. It's Pokémon, not Pokemon. It's right there on the character palette begging to be clicked. --[[Tracey Sketchit|<span style="color:#33CC66;">'''ケンジ'''</span>]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#6600CC;">'''の'''</span>]][[User:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#FF00CC;">'''ガール'''</span>]] 00:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:Remember this. I see you don't still use the é. By not using it, you cause extra work to other people correcting your grammar. Also, "dub" and "original" are not proper nouns. <font color="#3fff00">'''UltimateSephiroth'''</font> <sup>([[User:UltimateSephiroth|<font color="#3f7f00">about me</font>]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|<font color="#3f7f00">chat</font>]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|edits]])</sup> 21:42, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
== Your grammar ==
is absolutely horrendous. The amount of times people have had to point out your grammar mistakes--the spelling of Pokémon, the difference between it's and its, and random capitalization--is absolutely ridiculous. I speak on behalf of all of the community here at Bulbapedia: it's time for you to actually heed warnings and make improvements. If any of us don't see any honest improvement with your edits, it will become a punishable offense. You must learn the rules of grammar--because the lack of proper grammar makes this site seem like it is run by a bunch of ten-year olds. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 15:04, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
== Reverting ==
If an edit of yours is reverted, it's a bad idea to go back and undo it. If you really feel that strongly about your edits, discuss it on the talk page. Don't get into an edit war. --[[User:PAK Man|PAK Man]] <sup>[[User talk:PAK Man|Talk]]</sup> 16:24, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
:I discussed it on DP049 with other users. In fact, it happened long before the League was even planned out. But just in case, I made a response on [[Talk:DP049]], where we did have this discussion. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 16:32, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
== Norman ==
Can you tell me where Norman actually says he is supposed to be the third Gym Leader faced?  In the games and in the anime, he winds up fifth in each case, and IIRC his only reference to three (see my edit to [[Badge]]) is in AG003 saying three Pokémon are needed.  If he does say he's supposed to be third, I'd like to know where because I've never seen that.  If my understanding is correct, Hoenn is therefore handled by Ash and his friends like all regions before it (Norman came fifth because they were "near Petalburg" again, which doesn't make sense in the games; convenience, I guess, in the anime), and Norman's Gym requirements are the only thing that stopped him challenging there first.  [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 15:52, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:That might have been a mistake (claiming he was actually supposed to be the third gym leader, I mean). But Norman DOES state in the ending of the episode that Ash was supposed to actually challenge him later on, and then points to Rustboro as being the first gym Ash should face. That would imply that there was indeed supposed to be a specific order trainers were supposed to face the gyms, at least in Hoenn. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 15:58, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=R3vMoSgzBIM#t=1166 Here's the episode.]  I set it to start at the beginning of the final segment, but you can watch it in full if you'd like.  Norman NEVER said he should be challenged later on.  If you can show me where he says it, then that's fine, I just don't see what you say proven in the anime.  [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:::This is from the summary of the episode on this website: "Later back in front of Norman's Gym, Norman explains that he's actually a Gym Leader Ash is supposed to fight later on. The first Gym he should try is the one in Rustboro City" This is right near the end. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 16:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
::::I'll visit there, then.  Here are Norman's lines from the ending:
::::*"Your brother does know a lot about Pokémon and just might be a big help to you."
::::*"Ash, would it be too much of a bother if Max traveled along with you and May?"
::::*"I have a little something to give the both of you: a badge case to hold your winning Gym badges."  (A grammar error here, too.)
::::*"And son, this is for you."
::::*"With one of those, you'll always know exactly where you are."
::::*"I suggest that you first travel to the closest Gym from here, and that's located in Rustboro City."
::::*"You do your best!"
::::Nothing about being faced later, so I'll go edit that article too.  Thanks for the tip.  [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:16, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Never mind, that's another Website.  I think I've proven that the other Website is not reliable.  Do you have a link?  [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:17, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:Never mind again, I've edited [[AG003]].  [[User:CycloneGU|CycloneGU]] ([[User talk:CycloneGU|talk]]) 16:20, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
== Blocked ==
Weedle, you have been blocked for a duration of seven days for your edit war on [[Mewtwo Returns]]. You are well aware that edit warring is not permitted on Bulbapedia, and that the proper course of dispute resolution is to use the article's talk page to discuss the changes in dispute. Take this time to re-familiarize yourself with Bulbapedia policy. Thank you, - [[User:Kogoro|'''<span class="sc" style="color:#DA70D6;">Kogoro</span>''']] '''-''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<span class="sc" style="color:#FFB6C1;">Talk to me</span>''']] - 22:14, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
== Pocket Monsters: The Animation ==
Can you refer to it as ''[[Pocket Monsters: The Animation]]'' so that it shows up on the wanted pages and shows that it needs to be created? Also, do you personally have a copy of the book? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:04, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
:Sure thing, I'll do that in my next edit. Also, I don't personally have a copy of the book, but I do know someone who does: http://cindysuke.tumblr.com/post/34817930237/the-facts-about-pokemon-world-lol [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:06, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
== The Preview Button ==
Instead of editing a page several times in a row, try using the preview button to make sure your edit looks the way you want it to. It's right next to the Save Page button. Please try it out, so as not to clog up the Recent Changes. Also, if you want to edit multiple sections of the page, make sure that you click "edit this page" at the top of the page rather than editing it by section. Thanks!  --'''<span style="color:#F85888;">—<small>★</small></span>[[User:Reshii|<span style="color:#EE99AC;">レシイラム</span>]]'''<sup>'''[[User talk:Reshii|<span style="color:#F16A81;">talk</span>]]'''</sup> 11:16, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
== TV Ratings ==
Do you have a source for that? If you do, then state the source. Don't make other users guess and think that it's BS. If the source is Dogasu, then state that you got it from Dogasu. You have been here longer the I have to know that you should always source your information.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#AB2813">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#C87365">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#26649C">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#729ABF">ire</span>]] 04:35, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
== Serebii ==
Hi! I just want to make sure you know that we cannot take any information from Serebii as it appears you have done for [[Special:Diff/2462919|this Simisear information]]. If you see something on Serebii, make sure you can source it elsewhere first, and even then make doubly and ''triply'' sure that whatever you end up writing here still does not end up copying Serebii. Again, we ''cannot'' take things from Serebii. I hope you understand. =) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 23:21, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
:[[Special:Diff/2500010|This]]... Just to hammer this home: '''''NOTHING''''' is ever to be taken from Serebii, '''''period'''''.
:So, tell me... What is your source regarding XY137? Is it just Serebii? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:05, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::Serebii made it pretty clear that it came from Newtype Magazine. Here's what it had to say of the episode:
::"'''The Newtype magazine in Japan has revealed another new episode title, this time for the fourty-fourth episodes of Pokémon XY & Z.''' These episodes is set to air on October 6th, following another week break on September 29th. This episode features Clemont helping rebuild Lumiose City Gym after the Team Flare attack.
Episode 940: We Start at Zero! Clemont's Decision!!"
::If that doesn't qualify as a source besides Serebii, I don't know what does. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 15:20, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::I'm honestly just disappointed, Weedle. You have been here for a good amount of years and are still making the most simplest of mistakes. Serebii does not qualify for a source, regardless of what he says. He doesn't even post an image of the magazine scan, so no, it's not clear it came from a magazine scan. Saying something does not immediately make something true if you don't show the evidence.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#AB2813">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#C87365">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#26649C">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#729ABF">ire</span>]] 15:28, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::::Given your comment [[Special:Diff/2499984|here]], I was also curious where you got "はじまりはゼロ！シトロンの決断！"? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:31, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::I got it here: http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/XY137 [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 16:53, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
::::::Pokemon Wikia isn't a credible source either, because they could add that title just like you could add it here. It isn't an official website. Once there's a picture for the title, it will be posted. [[User:Playerking95|Playerking95]] ([[User talk:Playerking95|talk]]) 16:58, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::::In short, keep in mind that these things should always be ''verifiable''. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:02, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
I'd like to add, if your only source for English translations of new episode titles is Serebii, please don't try to use that (even changed a bit) to add the episodes here. That's still basically copying Serebii. Just leave it until someone else can make an independent translation. At worst, post the sources somewhere and let someone else create the episodes with independent translations. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:07, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
== PokeSpe reference ==
You are not right by saying that the implication of Silver being Giovanni's son in FR/LG and the subsequent confirmation of this fact in HG/SS is a PokeSpe reference in the games. It was the games that first mentioned the fact. PokeSpe decided to make Silver Giovanni's son only in FR/LG Chapter, which was after the release of FireRed and LeafGreen. So, it is the manga that referenced the game, not the other way 'round. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 16:14, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
== New episode pages ==
When creating a new episode page, please use the {{template|New episode}} template. Otherwise, you get copy/paste errors like with what you did for [[XY138]] and [[XY139]]. Thank you. --[[User:Carmenstar97|<span style="color:#95EB5C">Carmen<small>★</small></span>]] <small>''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|<span style="color:#FEBEE8">(Talk |</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|<span style="color:#A6DAFC">contribs)</span>]]''</small> 13:33, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
== Linking moves ==
Whenever you're linking to a move article, it's important to use the <nowiki>{{m}}</nowiki> template, as shown, to avoid using redirects. For example, <nowiki>{{m|Dark Void}}</nowiki> is the correct usage, not <nowiki>[[Dark Void]]</nowiki>. Just so you know. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 00:16, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
== English Celebi ==
Are you playing a game set to the Japanese language or a system and game from the Japanese region? I have doubts about Celebi having English text for the Japanese region. '''[[User:Lady Ariel|<span style="color:magenta">Lady</span>]] [[User talk:Lady Ariel|<span style="color:orange">Ariel</span>]]''' 02:00, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
:I'm playing an English game set to the English language and I downloaded the game from the Nintendo eShop channel on the English Nintendo 3DS. Nothing Japanese at all regarding the game (well, aside from it in general was originally made in Japan, I mean.). I also managed to [https://otnesse.tumblr.com/post/179272822979/proof-that-the-wondercard-description-is-in photograph] it as well. Sorry for it being low quality, but I'm not sure how to get it directly from the game a'la Serebii.net. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 10:01, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
:EDIT: Sorry, now I see what was going on. Shouldn't have done that, dang it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 10:03, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
== Link templates ==
Hey! I'm going to have to encourage you to read the site's {{bp|list of link templates}} again. Using <nowiki>{{an|Rotom Pokédex}}</nowiki> or simply <nowiki>{{Rotom}}</nowiki> is highly encouraged, not <nowiki>[[Rotom Pokédex (anime)|Rotom]]</nowiki>. Thank you. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 20:24, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
== Using Serebii as a source ==
Once again, you are using Serebii as a source when you know full well that he is not a valid source. It doesn't matter if he's right, just do no use his site as your source. Period. Your source should be the official Japanese site, not someone repeating what the Japanese site is saying.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#44BAE5">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#85D2EE">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#DA7D99">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#E7ABBD">ire</span>]] 13:49, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
== "Advantage" ==
While I acknowlege some of your Team Rocket vs. Caterpie argument, "advantage" doesn't mean that Ash was guaranteed to beat Misty; it simply means that he was objectively in a favorable situation prior to the battle being interrupted (and since this was acknowledged by both Trainers, it's not simply speculation). I decided to rewrite that particular part entirely anyway, but I just wanted to clarify that. In the future, please try to use the talk page instead of edit warring (although I admittedly shouldn't have made that last revert either, so I apologize for that).
Additionally, I never claimed that you were being biased: I actually think you removing the previous wording of "about to win the battle" was the right decision, hence why I  decided to try slightly rewording it instead. However, if you're going to say things like "regardless of my views on Misty", "even IF I believed Ash was owed a genuine win", and "my own personal views on the match were irrelevant"... of course I'm going to begin to question if you're truly attempting to be impartial here (especially given your history of Misty-related edits over the past 15 years). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 10:18, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
:Fine, I'll grant you that much regarding your points, and that your wording was better. Though to be fair, Caterpie was also in extremely low health at that time as well thanks to its earlier near-death against Pidgeotto and... well, you know the rest of that battle and how it turned out for everyone involved (and it was also fairly explicit that it was weak even before the fight against Pidgeotto, much less Team Rocket. After Ash's attempt at capturing Pidgeotto outright without weakening it first just resulted in it escaping easily, Misty reminded him that he needed to battle it first, and also specifically stated the only reason Caterpie got easily captured without a fight was because it was already weak beforehand). I might be fanatically loyal to Misty, I'll admit that much, but I still would have avoided using "advantage" even if I had the exact opposite emotional views of Misty (and in fact, back when I was still on Bulbagarden and the discussion popped up whether Ash or Misty would have won, I gave pretty firm arguments why it wasn't necessarily confirmed Ash was going to win, and made it very clear that my being a Misty fan had absolutely nothing to do with my rationale, and that if anything my rationale actually was tied far more to something that happened with Ash than it ever did with Misty and then cited that particular battle. Granted, PDL pretty much mocked my argument when I cited that battle, but still...). Yes, it's true that Starmie was explicitly low on health, but it's also true that it was still close enough to the water's edge that it merely needed to hop back in and regenerate, though it might need a bit more effort to pull it off. And I mostly had to mention that stuff repeatedly in case someone DID try to accuse me of being biased towards Misty due to past experiences on Serebii, Pokecommunity, and BMGf where they did repeatedly do that. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:50, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
::A bit late on this one to reply (eh, still less than 6 months), but your talk page comment for Misty's Starmie (which I replied to, but I figured it would be appropriate to go into a bit more detail here) got me to rewatch EP007 in both Japanese and English, and I believe you misremembered Staryu's situation. What Staryu was actually doing when it dived into the water was negating the usage of Stun Spore and Sleep Powder (kind of similar to Natural Cure, but with water rather than switching out), not healing itself, so the argument that Starmie could still regenerate itself in the water doesn't really hold up. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:46, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:::I didn't actually mention Staryu at all in that argument (my main focus was Starmie, and if anything I didn't even CONSIDER Staryu's earlier dive into the water to alleviate itself of Stun Spore.), and for the record, Starmie's core wasn't even damaged (ie, it didn't crack. The blinking light simply meant it was low on health), which is the only way it won't be able to heal at all barring maybe a Pokemon Center. And even if we were to somehow use that rationale for how it doesn't hold up, Bye Bye Butterfree made it very explicit that Starmie (and presumably Staryu) most certainly can heal itself (and by that, I specifically mean heal its HP back upwards, not simply negating a status effect) when exposed to water, at least as long as its core was intact (there was a scene during Ash, Misty and Brock's confrontation with Team Rocket over the poached Butterfree where James used a sledgehammer on Starmie, landed a direct hit on it and sent it flying into a wall, causing it to slump down in a similar manner to its situation in Waterflowers of Cerulean City, then Misty grabbed a water cannon (presumably from within Team Rocket's hideout) and proceeded to spray a torrent on it, and then it came right back to full strength). And that's not even getting into how Starmie's Pokedex entries back then make it explicit that it can regenerate as long as its core remains intact. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 09:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::"''I didn't actually mention Staryu at all in that argument (my main focus was Starmie, and if anything I didn't even CONSIDER Staryu's earlier dive into the water to alleviate itself of Stun Spore.)''"
::::You may not have mentioned Staryu, but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP007&diff=3592528&oldid=3592393 you stated here that Starmie could recover by jumping into the pool], which is what Staryu did earlier to negate Stun Spore/Sleep Powder, so I don't feel like it was unreasonable for me to assume that you used Staryu as a basis for that. If that's not the case, then I apologize.
::::"''For the record, Starmie's core wasn't even damaged (ie, it didn't crack. The blinking light simply meant it was low on health), which is the only way it won't be able to heal at all barring maybe a Pokemon Center.''"
::::I'm pretty sure my stance from the very beginning was simply that Starmie was in an objectively disadvantageous position. I never mentioned anything about its core cracking.
::::"''And even if we were to somehow use that rationale for how it doesn't hold up, Bye Bye Butterfree made it very explicit that Starmie (and presumably Staryu) most certainly can heal itself (and by that, I specifically mean heal its HP back upwards, not simply negating a status effect) when exposed to water, at least as long as its core was intact (there was a scene during Ash, Misty and Brock's confrontation with Team Rocket over the poached Butterfree where James used a sledgehammer on Starmie, landed a direct hit on it and sent it flying into a wall, causing it to slump down in a similar manner to its situation in Waterflowers of Cerulean City, then Misty grabbed a water cannon (presumably from within Team Rocket's hideout) and proceeded to spray a torrent on it, and then it came right back to full strength).''"
::::Bit of a sidenote, but it was Jessie that used the sledgehammer. As for the rest: I mentioned this on the talk page for Misty's Starmie as well, but I don't think using future episodes is the greatest counterargument. There are many instances of Pokémon displaying a certain trait for the sake of the progression of the episode, only for it to never be used again (which I'm pretty sure is also what happened here as well).
::::"''And that's not even getting into how Starmie's Pokedex entries back then make it explicit that it can regenerate as long as its core remains intact.''"
::::Those are Staryu's Pokédex entries you're thinking of, which is specifically for lost appendages rather than fully healing itself.
::::My main issue with your argument is that it's built too much on theoretical scenarios rather than what was actually presented within the episode itself. Sure, it's true that Starmie didn't "lose", but I never claimed that it did. I only stated that it was in an disadvantageous situation, which was acknowledged within the episode itself.
::::Also, you mentioned earlier that people have called you biased on Serebii, PokeCommunity, and the Bulbagarden forums. I only say this to try to offer some constructive criticism, but if there are three separate communities saying the same thing, I fear that there may be some truth within their words. If your initial talk page post on Misty's Starmie had been something like "Misty didn't really lose since the battle was interrupted, but I agree that it needs to be rewritten", I would completely understand. Instead, your post contained a fairly lengthy paragraph about the exact circumstances of the battle, theoretical ways in which the battle could have progressed, and a comparison to a separate episode. I feel like that's a bit much considering Temari44 only mentioned the Gym battle in a small part of their post. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 11:55, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::"''You may not have mentioned Staryu, but [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=EP007&diff=3592528&oldid=3592393 you stated here that Starmie could recover by jumping into the pool], which is what Staryu did earlier to negate Stun Spore/Sleep Powder, so I don't feel like it was unreasonable for me to assume that you used Staryu as a basis for that. If that's not the case, then I apologize.''"
:::::I guess you could say Staryu might have been a factor, but even without Staryu, the episode Bye Bye Butterfree already made clear it can fully heal from being exposed to water. And that's not even getting into how Generation III later had Staryu and Starmie have an ability to outright heal from water type attacks (and it wouldn't be the first time they did abilities for Pokemon based on an earlier episode. See Rhydon and it having Lightning Rod as an ability in a direct reference to the infamous Aim for the Horn situation during Blaine's Gym Battle).
:::::"''I'm pretty sure my stance from the very beginning was simply that Starmie was in an objectively disadvantageous position. I never mentioned anything about its core cracking.''"
:::::It still would have been a definite factor in whether or not Starmie would have been in a disadvantageous situation or not (and I define "disadvantageous" as "absolutely no way to get out of trouble", not "small chance of getting out of trouble" but "literally 0% chance"). The only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it was during the battle against Giselle when it was knocked into the pool (which, BTW, the person specifically referenced and I even agreed with him), and even there it was explicitly shown that Starmie's core had been smashed beforehand (which actually backs up its Pokedex entry if anything). If they wanted to actually indicate Misty was inevitably going to lose, they should have made sure to have Starmie's core explicitly crack from impact and then flash to imply that the core was damaged and thus cannot heal. And I realize full well they acknowledged it was that, but that unfortunately isn't enough since I've seen plenty of instances where they outright state an opponent is at a disadvantage with the person winning attempting to press the attack, only for the winning individual to end up defeated at the last second (like Tealc's fight against that fake Jaffah rebel leader for example, or to keep it contained to Pokemon like how Caterpie defeated Jessie and James, heck, how Ash turned the tide against Jessie during his Viridian Gym Match), or otherwise it being made clear afterwards that they weren't in any danger and just trying to increase drama [the latter bit I'm specifically thinking of how Gotenks in an attempt at staging a dramatic finish exaggerated how Super Buu is cleaning his clock, only for Piccolo to take it seriously and seal the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and it then being revealed after the fact that Gotenks was actually bluffing about losing meaning Piccolo blew up the entrance for nothing].). I would have said the same thing if it were Ash and Pidgeotto in their shoes (well, okay, maybe not quite to that level since unlike Starmie, Pidgeotto doesn't heal from absorbing water).
:::::"''Bit of a sidenote, but it was Jessie that used the sledgehammer. As for the rest: I mentioned this on the talk page for Misty's Starmie as well, but I don't think using future episodes is the greatest counterargument. There are many instances of Pokémon displaying a certain trait for the sake of the progression of the episode, only for it to never be used again (which I'm pretty sure is also what happened here as well).''"
:::::Fine, I stand corrected regarding who used the sledgehammer, but my point still stands. And for the record, what you used as a counterargument is a very bad argument in itself, since I can easily use that exact argument to just shut down the wiki altogether and delete all articles precisely BECAUSE they do progression and never bring it up again, thus can't qualify as facts, thus can't allow for an encyclopedia or even summaries (I'm an all or nothing kind of guy). Either way, the fact that Staryu and Starmie later on got Water Absorb would indicate they thought specifically of that scene when deciding on those abilities for them (similar to Rhydon having Lightning Rod), so more likely than not it has that ability. Heck, Misty's Starmie's article even specifically noted that it carried at the very least a similar ability to Water Absorb and cited that particular scene.
:::::"''Those are Staryu's Pokédex entries you're thinking of, which is specifically for lost appendages rather than fully healing itself.''"
:::::Being the evolved form of Staryu, I'm pretty sure Starmie probably retained that ability. Heck, its article even indicated it had regenerative abilities as well.
:::::"''My main issue with your argument is that it's built too much on theoretical scenarios rather than what was actually presented within the episode itself. Sure, it's true that Starmie didn't "lose", but I never claimed that it did. I only stated that it was in an disadvantageous situation, which was acknowledged within the episode itself.''"
:::::As I stated above, the problem is that there have been plenty of instances where they stated they were in a disadvantageous situation in an episode or even a game (both inside the Pokemon anime and even in other franchises), yet the person at a disadvantage outright prevailed against the superior opponent, so that unfortunately isn't even enough to acknowledge that bit (as when I think of disadvantageous situations, I specifically have in mind instances where there's no way to get out of trouble, and by "no way" I mean literally 0% chance of survivability, let alone prevailing.). That's why I still think the situation was very ambiguous ESPECIALLY given Starmie's later being revealed to have a similar ability to Water Absorb during the events of Bye Bye Butterfree. Heck, if anything, Ash's Caterpie came far closer to actually BEING in an explicit disadvantageous situation when he fought Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth due to having the entire deck stacked against him (aside from the illegal at the time 2-on-1 match that Team Rocket forced Ash into, their Ekans and Koffing had significantly more experience than it, plus the fact that both were Poison-types, which gave them a type advantage over his bug-type status, and they had even managed to easily take out Ash's Pidgeotto, who at that time nearly made Caterpie its lunch thanks largely to Ash's stupidity earlier, and that's not even getting into how it was close to fainting by that point thanks to that earlier battle, and even without the Pidgeotto battle was weak enough that Ash didn't even need to battle it just to capture it. Note that I said "came far closer to", not actually WAS a disadvantageous situation, because ultimately Caterpie prevailed).
:::::"''Also, you mentioned earlier that people have called you biased on Serebii, PokeCommunity, and the Bulbagarden forums. I only say this to try to offer some constructive criticism, but if there are three separate communities saying the same thing, I fear that there may be some truth within their words. If your initial talk page post on Misty's Starmie had been something like "Misty didn't really lose since the battle was interrupted, but I agree that it needs to be rewritten", I would completely understand. Instead, your post contained a fairly lengthy paragraph about the exact circumstances of the battle, theoretical ways in which the battle could have progressed, and a comparison to a separate episode. I feel like that's a bit much considering Temari44 only mentioned the Gym battle in a small part of their post.''"
:::::Hey, I tend to get very detailed in my replies. It's basically a quirk of mine due to both my aspergers and also my parents specifically demanding I get more detailed in my answers rather than saying "just because", "I felt like it", or even going extremely general about who "they" are when I say "people". As far as that big about Bulbapedia, Pokecommunity, and Serebii.net, usually it's just the same people who happen to be members of all three sites, and either way, just because three entities claim something doesn't necessarily make it true. Just ask the coverage about the Vietnam War by the major networks. All showed the worst aspects about Vietnam, yet it eventually came to light that all of them, especially the so-called "most trusted man in America" Walter Cronkite, were extremely biased against the war and in Cronkite's case may have even up and out lied through his teeth during the Tet offensive. A similar story can be shown with the Trayvon Martin case. And I only replied in that sense because he specifically said that Misty lost that battle (and I wasn't even disagreeing with his overall argument that Misty's Starmie was weak. If anything, I fully agreed with his argument, including its loss against Giselle's Graveler, and only had a minor quibble with Misty's Starmie being stated to have lost the Cerulean Gym battle, and that's only because there was literally nothing to suggest it lost before Team Rocket interfered.). [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 21:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::"''I guess you could say Staryu might have been a factor, but even without Staryu, the episode Bye Bye Butterfree already made clear it can fully heal from being exposed to water. And that's not even getting into how Generation III later had Staryu and Starmie have an ability to outright heal from water type attacks (and it wouldn't be the first time they did abilities for Pokemon based on an earlier episode. See Rhydon and it having Lightning Rod as an ability in a direct reference to the infamous Aim for the Horn situation during Blaine's Gym Battle).''"
::::::Neither Staryu nor Starmie have Water Absorb as a possible Ability.
::::::"''It still would have been a definite factor in whether or not Starmie would have been in a disadvantageous situation or not (and I define "disadvantageous" as "absolutely no way to get out of trouble", not "small chance of getting out of trouble" but "literally 0% chance").''"
::::::The definition of disadvantage is "an unfavorable circumstance or condition that reduces the chances of success or effectiveness"; it does ''not'' mean "0% chance of prevailing". Misty's Starmie was explicitly stated to be low on energy (but not actually knocked out), which means it was at a disadvantage.
::::::"''The only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it was during the battle against Giselle when it was knocked into the pool (which, BTW, the person specifically referenced and I even agreed with him), and even there it was explicitly shown that Starmie's core had been smashed beforehand (which actually backs up its Pokedex entry if anything).''"
::::::I'm fairly sure that this "water healing" attribute was only ever displayed once in EP021. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to say "the only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it" when it only happened ''once''.
::::::"''If they wanted to actually indicate Misty was inevitably going to lose, they should have made sure to have Starmie's core explicitly crack from impact and then flash to imply that the core was damaged and thus cannot heal. And I realize full well they acknowledged it was that, but that unfortunately isn't enough since I've seen plenty of instances where they outright state an opponent is at a disadvantage with the person winning attempting to press the attack, only for the winning individual to end up defeated at the last second (like Tealc's fight against that fake Jaffah rebel leader for example, or to keep it contained to Pokemon like how Caterpie defeated Jessie and James, heck, how Ash turned the tide against Jessie during his Viridian Gym Match), or otherwise it being made clear afterwards that they weren't in any danger and just trying to increase drama [the latter bit I'm specifically thinking of how Gotenks in an attempt at staging a dramatic finish exaggerated how Super Buu is cleaning his clock, only for Piccolo to take it seriously and seal the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and it then being revealed after the fact that Gotenks was actually bluffing about losing meaning Piccolo blew up the entrance for nothing].). I would have said the same thing if it were Ash and Pidgeotto in their shoes (well, okay, maybe not quite to that level since unlike Starmie, Pidgeotto doesn't heal from absorbing water).''"
::::::Again, a disadvantage is not an unwinnable situation. I also don't think the Gotenks situation is comparable since it was made clear to the readers/viewers that he was faking it even before Piccolo destroyed the door (and truth be told, Gotenks ultimately ''did'' fail to beat Super Buu because he's an idiot and refused to actually take the fight seriously until much later). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::"''Fine, I stand corrected regarding who used the sledgehammer, but my point still stands. And for the record, what you used as a counterargument is a very bad argument in itself, since I can easily use that exact argument to just shut down the wiki altogether and delete all articles precisely BECAUSE they do progression and never bring it up again, thus can't qualify as facts, thus can't allow for an encyclopedia or even summaries (I'm an all or nothing kind of guy).''"
::::::I'm sorry, but I feel like this is a huge stretch. My argument is based on information specifically presented in the episode itself, while yours is theorizing on how Misty could still make a comeback based on information ''not'' presented in the episode. I don't see how Starmie displaying a one-time attribute of being rejuvenated from a water blast in a later episode should be used as an argument for the Gym battle; Misty never said anything like "If I can just get Starmie into the water, I still have a chance".
::::::"''Either way, the fact that Staryu and Starmie later on got Water Absorb would indicate they thought specifically of that scene when deciding on those abilities for them (similar to Rhydon having Lightning Rod), so more likely than not it has that ability. Heck, Misty's Starmie's article even specifically noted that it carried at the very least a similar ability to Water Absorb and cited that particular scene.''""
::::::Just to reiterate: '''Neither Staryu nor Starmie have Water Absorb as a possible Ability'''. Their regular abilities are Illuminate and Natural Cure, along with gaining Analytic as a Hidden Ability starting with Gen V.
::::::"''Being the evolved form of Staryu, I'm pretty sure Starmie probably retained that ability. Heck, its article even indicated it had regenerative abilities as well.''"
::::::Again, this is used in the context of lost body parts. It's certainly not something like an immediate healing factor.
::::::"''As I stated above, the problem is that there have been plenty of instances where they stated they were in a disadvantageous situation in an episode or even a game (both inside the Pokemon anime and even in other franchises), yet the person at a disadvantage outright prevailed against the superior opponent, so that unfortunately isn't even enough to acknowledge that bit (as when I think of disadvantageous situations, I specifically have in mind instances where there's no way to get out of trouble, and by "no way" I mean literally 0% chance of survivability, let alone prevailing.). That's why I still think the situation was very ambiguous ESPECIALLY given Starmie's later being revealed to have a similar ability to Water Absorb during the events of Bye Bye Butterfree. Heck, if anything, Ash's Caterpie came far closer to actually BEING in an explicit disadvantageous situation when he fought Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth due to having the entire deck stacked against him (aside from the illegal at the time 2-on-1 match that Team Rocket forced Ash into, their Ekans and Koffing had significantly more experience than it, plus the fact that both were Poison-types, which gave them a type advantage over his bug-type status, and they had even managed to easily take out Ash's Pidgeotto, who at that time nearly made Caterpie its lunch thanks largely to Ash's stupidity earlier, and that's not even getting into how it was close to fainting by that point thanks to that earlier battle, and even without the Pidgeotto battle was weak enough that Ash didn't even need to battle it just to capture it. Note that I said "came far closer to", not actually WAS a disadvantageous situation, because ultimately Caterpie prevailed).''"
::::::Again, a disadvantage is not an unwinnable situation, just a situation that is harder to win from. There's nothing wrong with saying that Starmie was at a disadvantage, since that's what was displayed and stated within the episode itself.
::::::"''Hey, I tend to get very detailed in my replies. It's basically a quirk of mine due to both my aspergers and also my parents specifically demanding I get more detailed in my answers rather than saying "just because", "I felt like it", or even going extremely general about who "they" are when I say "people". As far as that big about Bulbapedia, Pokecommunity, and Serebii.net, usually it's just the same people who happen to be members of all three sites, and either way, just because three entities claim something doesn't necessarily make it true. '''Just ask the coverage about the Vietnam War by the major networks. All showed the worst aspects about Vietnam, yet it eventually came to light that all of them, especially the so-called "most trusted man in America" Walter Cronkite, were extremely biased against the war and in Cronkite's case may have even up and out lied through his teeth during the Tet offensive. A similar story can be shown with the Trayvon Martin case.'''''"
::::::This is an ''extreme'' comparison. One person's conduct on the Internet in regards to a fictional character from an anime is not at all equivalent to '''war or murder'''. At the very least, it's undeniable that a lot of conflict that you've run into on these sites are related to Misty (honestly, I can just look at earlier posts on this very talk page even before this particular discussion started). It's one thing to claim that you're not being biased and another to actually showcase that you're not being biased. You even admitted earlier that you're "fanatically loyal to Misty". [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 22:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::::If I were to be biased regarding Misty, I'd have rewritten every loss she had to be eradicated and thus indicated she never lost (either that, or if I genuinely hated Misty, rewrite everything to outright EXAGGERATE her loss ratio to imply she has a similarly bad track record to Team Rocket). Not only did I not do that, I actually agreed with the guy who tried to defend Starmie's overall track record that the Giselle bit WAS indeed a loss (a story-required loss, yes, but a loss nonetheless, and if I agreed that the Giselle bit was a loss, that is indeed showcasing I'm NOT biased. Someone who truly IS biased towards Misty in terms of liking her would never agree to her having a single loss at all). No, I'm not being biased, even if I do have fanatical loyalty to Misty (someone who's truly biased would literally rewrite the entire wiki to either avoid listing any, and I do mean literally ANY flaws she might have, or exaggerate her flaws to such a degree that they come across as the absolute worst person to ever live). Heck, I have an absolute hatred of May and to a lesser extent Dawn, yet you don't see me editing their articles to paint them in the absolute worst light imaginable (which WOULD be the very definition of bias, BTW). If anything, I AM attempting to be VERY objective in my edits especially regarding Misty. Also, a huge amount of stuff on here literally only happened in single episodes, or so few episodes that they barely even matter, yet they're still noted as actually having happened as if they had any importance, so that's far from a rebuttal regarding whether or not Starmie could indeed heal from it (and once is more than enough to indicate it would happen). I might as well also point out that I focus on the connections between generalities and details, so I DON'T limit myself to whether it's demonstrated in a single episode or not. Otherwise, Ash's Ho-Oh connection is meaningless since they never bring it up since the beginning of DP, and his Aura abilities also only showed up a few times in DP. And I do agree ultimately Misty's Starmie was weakened, but we have no conclusive proof that it would have lost, period, hence why I tried to rewrite it the way I did earlier as that's the only actual way to write it. [[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] ([[User talk:Weedle Mchairybug|talk]]) 02:13, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::::Everything that you're describing is simply bias taken to the logical extreme (i.e. to the point of being completely unreasonable), which is an exaggeration and doesn't actually disprove whether or not you're partial to Misty (which I think is fairly obvious at this point). Again, what's important in this instance is the info presented in the episode itself, which is less speculatory than thinking of ways that Misty "could" win or not. Again, I never said she actually lost. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 03:27, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
== Pokémon ==
When writing "Pokémon" or "Poké", don't forget to write the "e" as "é". Also, the word "Trainer" is capitalized. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 00:06, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
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