User talk:Force Fire/Archive 7: Difference between revisions

User talk:Force Fire/Archive 7 (view source)

Revision as of 16:02, 25 October 2015

6,356 bytes added , 25 October 2015

→‎Pangoro Slash

05308

8,242

edits

@@ Line 458: / Line 458: @@
 Seriously, why are you an admin and whoever gave you the power of the undo button must want this site to burn. It is easily seen as Slash in XY071. Why don't you tell me what else it could have been when Pangoro grew its claws, turned them white, and SLASHED the opponent. Well it must have been Water Gun huh, how stupid of us. Stop doing counter productive things.--[[User:Pikablu|Pikablu]] ([[User talk:Pikablu|talk]]) 05:37, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
 :Could've been Scratch. Or False Swipe. Or Cut. Or Fury Swipes. Yes, I know it can't learn Scratch or Fury Swipes, but the anime can make it use those moves because... just because. Anyways, we don't assume the moves of a Pokémon unless it is stated by one of the characters. Just because it looks like a move, doesn't mean it ''is'' the move. Hydro Pump and Water Gun basically share the same animation in the anime. So does Bubble and Bubblebeam. So does Bite and Crunch. So does Thunderbolt and ThunderShock. So does HeadButt and Tackle. So does Explosion and Self-destruct. So does Wrap, Bind, and Constrict. Bottom line, many moves share an animation so don't just assume a move.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#AB2813">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#C87365">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#26649C">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#729ABF">ire</span>]] 05:59, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
+::Force Fire, I have to wonder weather you actually watch the anime? The suspected moves in question being Pangoro's Slash, Glaceon's Ice Shard, Flareon's Fire Spin, Vaporeon's Aqua Jet and Jolteon's Thunder; of these the only one that could be argued is perhaps Jolteon's Thunder, although I'd wager highly that Thunder was the move used. If the move is not named on screen how can we be sure what that move is? Well it turns out there is a precedent (an earlier event or action that is regarded as an example or guide to be considered in subsequent similar circumstances) for that.
+::When the episode BW007 aired we saw Snivy use an unidentifiable grass type attack; the move used a new animation and there was no way of telling what the move used was, the same happed in XY003 when the Flethcling Ash was battling used an unidentifiable move with its wings. In both cases the moves were not documented at the time whatsoever, other moves like Vine Whip and Double Team were not named in the respective episodes but they were assumed to be those moves as the animations are conclusive. The former two moves were later revealed to be Leaf Storm and Razor Wind, as the two Pokémon continually appeared with the main cast, and they were documented on Bulbapedia as if they were known from the start. The problem here is that none of these Pokémon are on the main cast and its not certain we'll get confirmation in the same way that we did with Leaf Storm and Razor Wind. However, nearly half of the moves used in the anime and indeed the moves documented on Bulbapedia were unnamed and assumed.
+::There are even moves used in the same episodes that were unnamed and yet assumed here. Further precedents take us back to "White—Victini and Zekrom" and "Black—Victini and Reshiram" where in the movie, Reshiram used a fire type move that was unnamed on screen. The head of the entire Anime project: Kenji- Girl was asked weather she thought the move was Flamethrower or Overheat, she decided it was Flamethrower and it is documented as such. Keji- Girl's example in this situation is to use our initiative and simply agree.
+::Furthermore, in Tangrowth's debut episode, it used a move where its arm glowed purple and it struck the opponent, unnamed in the episode but nevertheless documented as Poison Jab for several years before one user recognised the moves animation more closely resembled Power Whip, a move that had not been shown again and named for almost a year after Tangowth's debut. The appropriate changes were made one the '''consensus''' had been made.
+::In the case of Pangoro's attack, we have always assumed legitimate attacks before errors, ruling out Scratch and Fury Swipes, Cut has been shown in the XY anime and the animation is distinguishable. The case you put forward for False Swipes is the only one with grounds however my rebottle is that we, historically, assume a move that sees a lot of use over a move rarely seen. The move matches Slash and we have no false swipes to compare it to.
+::Glacoen's move, I can hardly believe is even subject to debate. The animation matches BW's Ice Shard. While was have not yet seen Ice Shard used and named in XY. We can surely assume the move is Ice Shard, same as we assumed that Golbat used Air Slash in XY052; the move was never named and it has not appeared at any other time in XY but we assumed it to be Air Slash as it shared the animation with the BW Air Slash.
+::Flareon's very clearly used Fire Spin as the stream of dire instantly began to form circles. This is what we've always recognised as the distinguishing factor between Flamethrower and Fire Spin. This has been used many times when the move was neither specified Flamethrower of Fire spin. Both pages have many times listed where the move was not named on screen but the initiative of the users arrived at a decision. On a side note, assuming you have actually seen the clip of the move in question, do you doubt the move is Fire Spin?
+::As with the case of Ice Shard, the animation of the move used by Vaporeon matches BW's depiction (and DP's, for that matter) of Aqua Jet. This move would be, however, an error and as I argued in Pangoro's case "''we have always assumed legitimate attacks before errors''". My aforementioned statement, while still having validity concerning Pangoro, has no bearing on Vaporeon and is in no way a contradiction. Anime move errors happen a lot, in the XY series we've seen a Fletchling use Feather Dance and a Slurpuff using Electro ball, two errors, however they were named. Nidoran♂'s Bite, Froslass's Slash, Dusknoir's Rapid Spin, Regigigas's Hammer Arm, Baltoy and Claydol's Shock Wave, Politoad's Jump Kick, Skunktank's X- Scissor, Uxie and Mespirit's Teleport, Chingling and Chimecho's Sing, Kricetune's Bullet Seed, Unown's Psychic and Tediursa's Pound are only half of the errors documented on bulbapedia that were not named onscreen. These are precedents that say the animation is conclusive. Your comment that "''the other[s] could be illegal moves as well''" is a nonsensical argument; you may as well argue that May caught another Venasaur rather than evolving it from Bulbasaur because it was never said to have evolved on screen. Or even that every time Ash's Pikachu has ever used Thunderbolt, it was a script error and the move was actually Thundershock. Your argument is pedantic.
+::Thuder, Thundershock and Thunderbolt have always been similar animations if not the same. However, Thunder has always made a louder sound. To leave this particular move of Jolteon's undocumented would mean most of the times these three moves and discharge are documented will have to be removed. We must come to an agreement as we always have done.
+::Finally, don't take my repeated use of the word "''assume''" as basis for a counter argument, as I'll reiterate that assumptions about moves have been made more than they actually have been confirmed. If you're sticking to the argument where unconfirmed moves should be left undocumented, you have a lot of editing to do because these are only the latest in thousands of instances of a move that has not been named. [[User:05308|<font color="blue">Diamond</font>]] [[Lanturn (Pokémon)|<font color="yellow">Lanturn</font>]] [[User talk:05308|<font color="red">CodeName: 05308</font>]] 16:02, 25 October 2015 (UTC)