Talk:Proton: Difference between revisions

Talk:Proton (view source)

Revision as of 22:10, 5 April 2010

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→‎Whether or not Proton and Petrel existed

AndyPKMN

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 Alright, that's my two cents, now someone shoot me down. For some reason, it happens every time I try to bring an argument to the table on a talk page, no matter what wiki I'm on and no matter how much I've thought my argument through. XD [[User:Teamrocketspy621|Teamrocketspy621]] 22:55, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
+:I think it's obvious that the Executives originally weren't called Proton and Petrel or designed originally to be like them, but it's probably simpler to leave things as they are, and list the Executives on Proton and Petrel's pages, and just assume that Game Freak meant for Pro. and Petrel to directly take those original Executive's places. [[User:Takoto|<span style="color:#2E0854"> - <b>Takoto</b></span>]] 23:02, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
+::Exactly. Game Freak meant for Proton and Petrel to be those two Executives. BUT, the article words it as though they have ''always'' been Proton and Petrel, and I see that as more of a misconception, since they obviously weren't. [[User:Teamrocketspy621|Teamrocketspy621]] 18:02, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
+:::Names aren't everything. They're meant to be the same Executives. Why wouldn't they? Their existence doesn't retcon anything or even contradict with GSC, so why wouldn't we call them same characters? Sure, when they were creating GSC they had no idea that they'd give those generic Executives new designs and names. But why should we delete that just because they didn't intend it from the start? There were many things that weren't intended from the start. TMs weren't always intended to be CDs. GSC male wasn't always intended to be Ethan. But now they are. The only thing we should care is canon. Canonically, they're the same characters. Dismissing the canon facts because of some assumption "what Game Freak could be thinking eleven years ago" is idiotic. All that matters is what there IS, not what COULD BE. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 18:30, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
+:Just a question... how similar are Proton and Petrel's dialogue to the executives they replaced. Canonically speaking, a character's dialogue reveals the most about them in most cases. But I don't remember exactly... is their dialogue similar enough that they should be considered the same? Allowing for changes, of course, such as Petrel's Giovanni disguise (which I'm pretty sure is brand new). --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 18:41, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
+---------
+::::Proton's lines in Radio Tower were changed completely because of the fact that the player has meet him in Slowpoke Well already. The "Team Rocket fortress" thing is gone. However, after the battle in Slowpoke Well he gives a very similar line to the final Grunt in the Well in GSC.
+*GSC: ''"Yeah, TEAM ROCKET was broken up three years ago. But we continued our activities underground. Now you can have fun watching us stir up trouble!''
+*HGSS: ''"Humph... Team Rocket was indeed broken up three years ago. But we continued our activities underground. A small obstacle like you won't be much of a problem for our mission. I advise you to be very afraid of what is to come!"''
+Petrel's lines are also changed in Mahogany Hideout because of him dressing as Giovanni and the part with Murkrow opening the door with voice was added (originally, Petrel's voice wasn't needed to open the door, just the password). However, he also says "I... I couldn't do a thing... GIOVANNI, please forgive me..." upon defeating, as in HGSS. Also, he DOES mention that the place the player met him in the Rocket Executive is supposed to be Giovanni's office in GSC as well! When the player battles him in Radio Tower, the dialogues are also very different. However, the text he says after battle is very similar to the original, just longer.
+*GSC: ''"We stashed the real DIRECTOR in the UNDERGROUND WAREHOUSE. It's at the far end of the UNDERGROUND. But I doubt you'll get that far."''
+*HGSS: ''"Listen carefully. We stashed the real Director in the underground warehouse. It's at the far end of the Goldenrod Tunnel. I am a nice guy. I will give you the Basement Key to get to the underground warehouse. Take it with gratitude!"
+Ariana's texts are practically the same as in GSC in Mahogany Hideout.
+*GSC: ''"Hold it right there! We can't have a brat like you on the loose. It's harmful to TEAM ROCKET's pride, you see. However strong you may be, you can't take both of us at the same time. Sorry, baby. Now get ready to be thrashed.Hey! Don't be so selfish. Spread the fun around. What? You had an accomplice? Where is your sense of honor? As the interim boss in place of GIOVANNI, I'll show you how wrong it is to meddle with TEAM ROCKET!"''
+*HGSS: ''"Hold it right there! We can't let a brat like you do as you please forever. It'll hurt Team Rocket's pride over and over again. Making it lessen, you see. ...So, it's time to finish you. However strong you may be, if the two of us fight at the same time, you'll have no chance of winning. Don't you agree? Hee hee hee! Sorry, baby. Now, get ready to be thrashed. What? You had an accomplice? Where is your sense of dignity? As interim boss in the place of Giovanni, I'll show you how wrong it is to meddle with Team Rocket!"''
+And a bit changed, but still similar in the Radio Tower.
+*GSC: ''"Remember me from the HIDEOUT in MAHOGANY TOWN? I lost then, but I won't this time."''
+*HGSS: ''Hey, you... Remember me from the hideout in Mahogany Town? This time... Hee hee hee. This time... it looks like you're really all alone. All alone... So it should be quite easy. Bring it! Let's finish this!"''
+Her dialogue after battle in HGSS makes the same sense as the one from GSC but is expanded and reworded.
+*GSC: ''"A brat like you won't appreciate the magnificence of TEAM ROCKET. That's too bad. I really admire your power."''
+*HGSS: ''"What a waste... not to use your strength to do bad things! Feh... People like you will never in a million years understand our brilliance! It's too bad... I've really come to respect your strength."''
+And, last but not least - Archer. His texts are practically the same, with only minor changes.
+*GSC: ''"Oh? You managed to get this far? You must be quite the trainer. We intend to take over this RADIO STATION and announce our comeback. That should bring our boss GIOVANNI back from his solo training. We are going to regain our former glory. I won't allow you to interfere with our plans."''
+*HGSS: ''"Oh? You managed to get this far...? You must be quite the Trainer. We intend to take over this Radio Tower and officially announce our comeback. That should bring our boss Giovanni back from his solitary training. We are going to regain our former glory... I will not allow you to interfere with our meticulous plans!"''
+*GSC (after battle): ''"How could this be? Our dreams have come to naught. I wasn't up to the task after all. Like GIOVANNI did before me, I will disband TEAM ROCKET here today. Farewell."''
+*HGSS: ''"How could this be...? Our dreams have come to naught. I was not up to the task after all. Like Giovanni has done before me, I will disband Team Rocket here today. Farewell..."''
+Keep in mind that many texts in HGSS were changed, especially those given by important characters. Executives's texts were expanded in order to expand their personalities, instead of giving the same texts from the time that they were characterless, designless, nameless drones. But there are similarities after all.
+[http://mltreq.alwaysdata.net/etc/crysdump.txt Tohjo Falls' Crystal Text Dump was my choice on the GSC texts.] --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 19:26, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
+:Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to see. I think that's suitable evidence that they're the same characters. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 22:10, 5 April 2010 (UTC)