Should probably be merged with lawsuits. Under a new title. Evkl 20:53, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Good plan. Wonder why I didn't think that in the first place. - Ferret 20:59, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
The Swastika
Arty, the a Swastika-like symbol is in fact good luck in numerous cultures, notably some Native American ones.
Okay, but I think keeping the extrnal links would enlight some people that want more proof :)
I really need someone to get in here and change it to 'manji', which is what the symbol on the card really is. I still haven't figured out the hang of external links.
manji is merely the Japanese name for what is ultimately an Indian symbol, otherwise known as Swastika in English. - 刘 (劉) 振霖 12:58, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Really? Because what I saw is that the Manji goes the other way.
The term "swastika"[1] can describe the symbol either way it goes. Sheep 19:52, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The term swastika cannot describe the symbol going either way. read the original article and you will understand. they are both different symbols. the nazi's intentionally derived the swastika from the manji.
Wikipedia says: Manji (卍) is the Japanese word for swastika. and The word swastika is derived from the Sanskrit svastika, meaning any lucky or auspicious object, and in particular a mark made on persons and things to denote good luck. The two words are one in the same. To say otherwise would be the equivalent of saying neko and cat are two different things. However, I have read there and elsewhere that manji is used only for the swastika in the context of Buddhist art and scripture. So, we have a dilemma. Is manji acceptable given the context of the card? --Argy 22:51, 28 August 2005 (CDT)
We have a double context here - it's a swastika from the POV of the complainers, and it's a manji from the POV of the artist. The reason why both POVs are correct: they're the same damn thing at heart! Just different connotations.
Now, why don't we avoid all this ridiculous controversy and call it that damned symbol which appears to be a cross with its arms bent clockwise which invokes memories of facism and racism in the West and Buddhism in the East - 振霖T 01:23, 29 August 2005 (CDT)
Flying Kids
I happen to remember a story a while ago about children ins some far-flung country imitating Pokémon by jumping off of buildings and attempting to fly (Like a Pidgey I think it was) If anyone else remembers this story, can you link to somewhere documenting it? Thanks. - Ferret 11:02, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I think that was made up like the Superman story back in the 50s.
Jynx
I read a largish essay on a website once that explained that Jynx was actually unintentionally racist, due to how the Japanese culture is. Anyone know where I can find it? I'ld like to expand on this section a little. - Ferret 11:07, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
- I don't think you can be unintentionally racist. - Jshadias 15:18, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
I think you speak of this article, Ferret: http://www.bulbagarden.net/~dogasu/bashing/racist_jynx_01.html - Zeta
Am I the only one who just plain doesn't see the resemblance? I seem to recall a Nordic story about a witch who stayed out in the snow so long she turned black from the cold...--BJG
Yeah that's the article Zeta. Thank you. - Ferret 02:21, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
>The vauge legend about the ice princess who turned black is addressed in the article on Dogasu's Site - IE, no one can find solid proof of it. And it seems likely that someone just fabricated it to explain Jynx in an inoffensive manner. - Zeta
No, I'd heard it. I'd have to look it up. But I don't think she was a princess, though, which may be what throws people off--BJG
I think the Hela argument is the best one, considering its Japanese name ends in "ela", which I don't think many people spotted. Flicky1991 19:36, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Saudi Arabia
It should be noted in the article that Pokémon is completely banned in Saudi Arabia. I would avoid placing the mention in the "Jewish Plot" area since that is not (to my knowledge) the justification given by the Saudi government.
About the controversy section...
Ok, I just wanted to mention that something about this section seems... off, Could someone mention the part of sexism in the anime? I feel that this should be mentioned because i noticed quite a bit of it, especially in AG and DP in how the main girls act. In fact even in the first season there were slight traces of sexism (Though not in the main female) in the series, one infamous example is Beauty and the Beach, but another, little-known example is in Princess vs. Princess when they had almost every single girl (with the sole exceptions of Misty and Jessie) in the store (and even the contest hall) squealing like animals at least twice, and at most three times (one of which had Ash, Brock, Pikachu, James, And Meowth being trampled by those... Airheads like Mufasa with the wildebeest stampede). I know this one is an awful sexist stereotype because a relative of mine commented on it being awful and disliking it when she saw it, heck, at least 2 of my classes in my school agreed with me when i brought it up as part of a project. so, with your permission, i'd like to add these tidbits into the article.
- This is more about controversy from outside voices than controversies that only arise within the fandom. --FabuVinny T-C-S 17:02, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
umm... my relative IS an outside voice, and possibly some of my classmates who aren't exactly part of the forums. ~~Weedle_McHairybug~~
...Or were you meaning that we can only cite controversies that are within the fandom? because if that's what you were meaning, then most of these things REALLY have to go. Take the Jynx thing, that technically wasn't an "in-fandom" controversy (at least, not to the same extent that the VA Change or even Misty being removed from the main cast was), and yet that one is counted as a controversy. Same deal with the satanism controversy, the Uri Geller fine, the swastika/manji controversy, "Pokemon Kills", Pokemon TCG = Gambling, or the Jewish Plot = Pokemon Controversy. and anyways, it is also a controversy within the fanbase since I also have at least one person on serebiiforums and a few others who agree with me, or at the very least understand where I am coming from. So this is the rationale as to why I think it should be implemented.
~~Weedle_Mchairybug~~
- No, he means controversies outside of the fandom. Controversies inside the fandom are usually on the articles' pages, this stuff's about people who likely never played a Pokémon game and are just yelling about it being horrible because they're a bunch of not-our-generation people. TTEchidnaGSDS! 21:06, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
well, now that i know that he was Indeed meaning that we should mention only non-fandom sources, I'll go back to my original statement of "umm... My relative, as I have said Before, IS outside of the fandom since she doesn't really play the Pokemon Games. So i figured that that should be sufficient enough for this to warrant a mention."
~~Weedle_Mchairybug~~
It's really only 4 or 5 people that aren't doing anything about it. Now, if they were setting up huge websites and getting around 50+ people supporting the cause, then it'd deserve a mention. Mumbles 20:53, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Actually, it's between 900 and 1000 people. I know because that's the number of people who signed my petition to bring... you-know-who back, and many of them (Probably a sixth of them) ALSO signed it because they wanted to eliminate this stereotype as well (The BMB petition also served as a anti-FAS petition). the majority of them were from high school, but 200 of them came from the AWA convention, about 80 of them were from my neighborhood, and I also got my family to sign it. I'd say that's enough evidence to upload them onto the controversy section (most of them either weren't Pokémon fans at all, or haven't been fans for a LONG time.) Weedle Mchairybug 17:26, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
The gambling lawsuit
Is that still taking place? Or was it thrown out of court (crosses fingers)? Any news on it? I mean, WoTC hasn't been the producer of Pokémon TCG cards for, like, five years.' --ニョロトノ666 22:15, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
- Logically, two things would've happened: (1) the suit would be thrown out of court for being stupid, or (2) the lawsuit would eventually be against every single collectible card game ever. They still make CCGs and we haven't heard anything on the suit in a long, long time, so I'm thinking it got thrown out of court.--Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 22:45, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Swastika
In this article it is mentioned that the Swastika is associated with Buddhism. However, it is more associated with Hinduism than it is with Buddhism. Can an admin change it?--Maria♥♪♫δ 07:35, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
Registeel
My British friend (who got his copy of Diamond at a local store) just checked the Registeel sprite in his Diamond, and it's the Hitler salute sprite, but the page says it should be the other sprite.--エルレイド 21:18, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Garitina
There really is no section here in the discussion page to put this but some people believe that garitina resembles satinism because it resembles a serpent in its origin form thus the sickos believe it resembles what first happened in our origin and because it was banished from earth and because of the number of spikes on its wings,legs and cage like things on it. So would someone be kind enough to write this or at least answer why not? If you don't get the number thing look it up because I refuse to write those digits.VENUS,MEGA,SCEPT,TORTE,SERP 04:45, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
Uri Geller IS a psychic?
It is only what he claims to be, even if he earns money through it. He apparently refuses research into his abilities. There is no clear proof, so we should change in into who claims to be a psychic?
Renoir (talk) 04:44, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
On the topic of Geller, "This is why we can't have nice things." I do agree, I think it would go better as "claims to be" Your Buddy Bill (talk) 18:31, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Recent PETA 'joke'?
While I'm sure they'll fob it off as a joke, I'd like to suggest expanding the 'Animal Cruelty' section by including information from PETA's latest threat as well as the controversial and tasteless 'parody' game "Pokemon black and Blue". Lugia61617 (talk) 11:30, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
Registeel?
Can someone explain to me why there was a controversy over the Registeel's salute? It the wrong arm to be the "Nazi" salute. The Nazi salute it done with the right arm, not the left. So Unless, I'm looking at it wrong, Registeel is arising it left arm. Allen Knott, 6/16/13 4:24am E.S.T. U.S.Allen Knott (talk) 08:25, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
Electric soldier porygon and seizures
This episode has created a guiness world record for giving seizures to 685 children. Watch it in youtube AT YOUR OWN RISK!!! I think this should also be added in the controversies. Is not it?Mccoyzn (talk) 03:27, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
Lawsuits
The article is only covering lawsuits that were filed against the creators/owners of the pokemon franchise there are lawsuits that they have filed against others in regards to their franchise like recently a cafe manager was sued by TPC for using their IP for a party without their permission shouldn't that be covered on the article as well? --0551E80Y (talk) 14:44, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
Lavender Town
Just curious... is anyone else thinking there should be a section for all of the controversy over the "original" Lavender Town theme? the great MIKORO (talk to me) 02:56, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
- What's the story? Unowninator (talk) 18:28, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
- Either Google "Lavender Town Syndrome" and read the Creepypasta article, or take it from me. Apparently, not long after Red and Green were released in Japan two decades ago, when child/young teen players reached Lavender Town and listened to its theme music with headphones, adverse effects were induced such as hemorrhages, nose bleeds, strokes, seizures, and even suicides. It could all be a myth, but extensive studies have shown that the music does in fact contain binaural beats, which are often used for things such as hypnosis to manipulate human actions. Also, if one were to amplify the song and use a spectrogram to view the frequencies and sound waves, these beats can be heard by anyone, no matter how old they are. These beats are arranged to form the shape of the ghost sprite from Pokémon Tower, as well as another set of beats arranged in a way that spells "LEAVE NOW", using the different forms of Unown as letters. the great MIKORO (talk to me) 19:26, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
- Is there actually any truth behind any of this though? ☆The Solar Dragon☆ 21:45, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
- There's no way to know for sure, but it's very likely... all of the aforementioned reports all happened around the same time vicinity, and all of the discovered affected people were players of Pokémon, and their last location in Red/Green was Lavender Town. The tune was then studied, and the aforementioned binaural beats were found within the song, and further examined to figure out what they subliminally provoke listeners to do. the great MIKORO (talk to me) 23:34, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
- Pretty sure this is an untrue urban legend.Zakor1138 (talk) 01:09, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
- Look, the subject of this section isn't whether or not the myth is true, it's whether or not it deserves to be included in this article. If you think it doesn't, then that settles it; we just won't include it. the great MIKORO (talk to me) 01:25, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
- Then it shouldn't be included, because it isn't true. It could get a page on this wiki under Fandom. Also, why the hostility? Zakor1138 (talk) 01:30, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
- Oh that came across as hostile? So sorry, wasn't trying to be. And there's no way of knowing for sure if it isn't true, so there's no need to be presumptuous. And I'm fine with it not having a section on this page, I just wanted to know what everyone else thought. the great MIKORO (talk to me) 02:06, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
- Some of the things on this page stem from misconceptions (Nazi imagery) or personal beliefs/"panic" (religion...). By that token, if there was real panic or something, then it might be notable. But from what's been discussed above, I wouldn't bet it wasn't just a bull**** story put together/made up well after the fact of the games. Tiddlywinks (talk) 04:20, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
- There is no proof that it happened. This was just one of those game Creepypastas that people made on the internet. Zakor1138 (talk) 04:43, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
- This has been discussed to death on Lavender Town's talk page. It's just a rumor with no credible proof that there was an "original" Lavender tune.--ForceFire 05:24, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
- Oh that came across as hostile? So sorry, wasn't trying to be. And there's no way of knowing for sure if it isn't true, so there's no need to be presumptuous. And I'm fine with it not having a section on this page, I just wanted to know what everyone else thought. the great MIKORO (talk to me) 02:06, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
- Then it shouldn't be included, because it isn't true. It could get a page on this wiki under Fandom. Also, why the hostility? Zakor1138 (talk) 01:30, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
- Look, the subject of this section isn't whether or not the myth is true, it's whether or not it deserves to be included in this article. If you think it doesn't, then that settles it; we just won't include it. the great MIKORO (talk to me) 01:25, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
- Pretty sure this is an untrue urban legend.Zakor1138 (talk) 01:09, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
- There's no way to know for sure, but it's very likely... all of the aforementioned reports all happened around the same time vicinity, and all of the discovered affected people were players of Pokémon, and their last location in Red/Green was Lavender Town. The tune was then studied, and the aforementioned binaural beats were found within the song, and further examined to figure out what they subliminally provoke listeners to do. the great MIKORO (talk to me) 23:34, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
- Is there actually any truth behind any of this though? ☆The Solar Dragon☆ 21:45, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
- Either Google "Lavender Town Syndrome" and read the Creepypasta article, or take it from me. Apparently, not long after Red and Green were released in Japan two decades ago, when child/young teen players reached Lavender Town and listened to its theme music with headphones, adverse effects were induced such as hemorrhages, nose bleeds, strokes, seizures, and even suicides. It could all be a myth, but extensive studies have shown that the music does in fact contain binaural beats, which are often used for things such as hypnosis to manipulate human actions. Also, if one were to amplify the song and use a spectrogram to view the frequencies and sound waves, these beats can be heard by anyone, no matter how old they are. These beats are arranged to form the shape of the ghost sprite from Pokémon Tower, as well as another set of beats arranged in a way that spells "LEAVE NOW", using the different forms of Unown as letters. the great MIKORO (talk to me) 19:26, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
Citation needed
I recently added the "Citation Needed" to some of the facts on the article. They haven't been sourced so what should happen to the information? Should it get removed?Sly Fox (talk) 15:03, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
Where Jynx really came from
There have been several theories regarding where Jynx came from:
1) Jynx was inspired by ganguro, a Japanese fashion where women tan heavily, bleach their hair, and apply large amounts of makeup, instead of a black stereotype. This theory is mainly based on Jynx's long, straight, blonde hair, a common attribute of ganguro fashion.
2) Jynx is based on the Nordic goddess Hel, who was often depicted has having a face half white-half black. This theory is supported by the fact that Urd and her mother Hel (renamed Hild which is the name of another Norse goddess) are both depicted as being dark skinned in the manga series Ah My Goddess! Also Hel ruled Niflheim, primarily land of primordial ice and cold and who did not die a heroic or notable death (it was the closes thing the Norse had to a 'bad' place). They argue that Jynx's hair looks more like royalty than an African stereotype. They also say that being based on a Viking goddess who ruled a land of primordial ice and cold would explain why they are Ice type. This is further supported by Jynx sharing traits with the iconic opera singing "Fat Lady," who is pop-culturally portrayed dressed as the valkyrie Brünnhilde.
3) Matpat created a [Game Theory: Pokemon Racism, Jynx Justified] which goes into the Yama-uba theory in detail.
In moviebob's [Game Overthinker V8] and went into greater detail in [GAME OVERTHINKER V23] which gave more indication that Jynx wasn't racist. Heck, with the right mindset you could claim the 1990s Sailor Moon anime is pro-Nazi: blond haired, blue eyed reincarnation of a bunch of warrior superbeings (ie Master Race) fighting the life draining monsters in the Elders of Zion mold. It is effectively a variant of The Iron Dream. Is that insanely ridiculous? Sure it is, but it is on par with what was going on with Jynx.--BruceGrubb (talk) 13:26, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
- I've made an attempt at a compromise, but if I may speak very frankly, your confrontational tone and attempt to derail the section into a ramble about how Jynx allegedly isn't really racist feels very much to me like you may have underlying racial motivations. Please take a step back and look at the whole section from a neutral point of view, not just this one paragraph, and try to see that this one paragraph is not the point of the section. The point is what actually did happen, the accusations and Nintendo's response. Whether Jynx is or isn't racist, and what it might have been instead of a racial stereotype, is entirely a moot point. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 14:54, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
Should we bring up the Pokemon Go Battle League exploit as a controversy?
If you guys didn´t knew On june 2 2020 There was reports of a user that did an exploit in the GO Battle League , the pokemon used for the exploit was primarly Melmetal. People were adressing the situation and Niantic responded by banning the exploit user and putting the Go Battle League on hold. Should this be addresed here or in the Go Battle League page?- unsigned comment from LestherIvy (talk • contribs)
Manji on Charizard card?
We all know about the controversy with the Koga's Ninja Trick card. But I've heard there was a Charizard card with artwork that had to be changed for the same reason. Is this true, and if so, which Charizard card was it? Buzzfan120 (talk) 14:47, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
- Do you have any links regarding this? I've never seen or heard of a Charizard card that was censored. Frozen Fennec 15:26, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
- I guess whoever posted it on TV Tropes must have gotten mixed up, because they didn't post a link. See this article, which mentions both the Koga's Ninja Trick card and the (probably fake) Charizard card. Whoever posted it said they got it from "The Other Wiki", which is the TV Tropes nickname for Wikipedia, which is not always trustworthy because people sometimes insert false information. Buzzfan120 (talk) 20:51, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
- Never heard of such a card existing, if it did; would have been documented on one the Charizard (TCG) pages. Will run this by other admins just in case and see they have heard of it. Frozen Fennec 14:06, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
- After much discussion and researching, it has been noted that no such card has ever existed. The only known card to feature the manji in its original release is Koga's Ninja Trick. Frozen Fennec 18:16, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
- Ok, thanks. Since I often contribute to TV Tropes, I'm going to go fix it. Buzzfan120 (talk) 23:03, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
- After much discussion and researching, it has been noted that no such card has ever existed. The only known card to feature the manji in its original release is Koga's Ninja Trick. Frozen Fennec 18:16, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
- Never heard of such a card existing, if it did; would have been documented on one the Charizard (TCG) pages. Will run this by other admins just in case and see they have heard of it. Frozen Fennec 14:06, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
- I guess whoever posted it on TV Tropes must have gotten mixed up, because they didn't post a link. See this article, which mentions both the Koga's Ninja Trick card and the (probably fake) Charizard card. Whoever posted it said they got it from "The Other Wiki", which is the TV Tropes nickname for Wikipedia, which is not always trustworthy because people sometimes insert false information. Buzzfan120 (talk) 20:51, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
Page title
I think something should be done about it, but I'm not sure what. I think the current title sounds like it's an infamous single incident that's been all over the news, or maybe even a product invented by Silph Co. Nescientist (talk) 19:31, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
- I personally think the current page title is fine, but perhaps something like "Controversy surrounding Pokemon" or "Pokemon-related controversies"? Just spitballing. --celadonk (talk) 19:32, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
- Just an idea but what if it was changed from "Pokémon controversy" to "Pokémon controversies?" This would allow people visiting bulbapedia to know the page covers more than a singular controversy. Frozen Fennec 03:12, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- "List of Pokémon-related controversies"? I believe if it's a bunch of separate things, maybe it's a "List of" type of article!? (Any suggested title could redirect there.) Nescientist (talk) 10:31, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
- It's not really a list, though. At least, not in the way that we usually keep "lists". --celadonk (talk) 21:10, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
- To be honest, I always contrasted with articles like List of references to Pokémon in popular culture (or those in its "See also" section) in mind, since they're the most similar ones I know of; and they do start with "List of", too.
- But at this point, I think I'm not gonna suggest anything, then. There's no clear consensus for a better title. Nescientist (talk) 16:59, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- It's not really a list, though. At least, not in the way that we usually keep "lists". --celadonk (talk) 21:10, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
- "List of Pokémon-related controversies"? I believe if it's a bunch of separate things, maybe it's a "List of" type of article!? (Any suggested title could redirect there.) Nescientist (talk) 10:31, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
- Just an idea but what if it was changed from "Pokémon controversy" to "Pokémon controversies?" This would allow people visiting bulbapedia to know the page covers more than a singular controversy. Frozen Fennec 03:12, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
Highly Risky/Inappropriate Website Link
There is a legitimatly bad website which is linked to on this page and other pages on this Wiki. It's called Kotaku and I've known it to be questionable since I was 12 and saw some bad ads on it but I found a resource that verified all my concerns about this website. On Web of Trust, it implies Kotaku is a prostitute service which uses this to obtain money. This page also says that the Kotaku company had an adult video in an ad once. They are also extremely biased and racist, and only report on topics they care about. They rely on masquerading as a gaming website to get money from their supporters and some of their articles have very explicit sexual content.
https://www.mywot.com/scorecard/kotaku.com/
I would greatly recommend removing all links to Kotaku from Bulbapedia, and banning it from the website and the forums. I would also recommend informing other popular Pokemon sites such as Smogon and Serebii that Kotaku is unsafe and they should lock it out as well. Mario60866 (talk) 20:01, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
- Unless the website itself is known to be shady, a couple of bad reviews doesn't change anything. The site your using as reference says that it's considered safe under the "Is kotaku.com Safe?" sentence. Adult ads on other sites are, again, out of our control. Kotaku needs to deal with those ads, we can't do anything about their ads.--ForceFire 05:54, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
Zekrom Ku Klux Klan Night Hawk controversy
I dug up a controversy, and there are several reviews and complaints on sites like the Better Business Bureau, and there have been posts dug up. I think this needs to be looked into. I am new to the site and didn't see the discussion board. My theory is Pokemon GO triggered it in 2020, because the earliest I have found it was in 2020. It's simple, Zekrom looks like a KKK Night Hawk because of colors and his lightning bolt head. People are including Reshiram, White Kyurem, and Black Kyurem though. I can definitely see White Kyurem and Black Kyurem, but Reshiram doesn't really have that headshape, but he has the other details that are being complained about. --DonkeyKong364 (talk) 05:50, 2 January 2023 (UTC)