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Talk:Pokémon Gold and Silver beta: Difference between revisions
Talk:Pokémon Gold and Silver beta (view source)
Revision as of 18:36, 13 August 2019
, 13 August 2019→Spaceworld Information: Moderators, please read this thread. We're well beyond a reasonable waiting time for this.
Celadonkey (talk | contribs) |
Celadonkey (talk | contribs) (→Spaceworld Information: Moderators, please read this thread. We're well beyond a reasonable waiting time for this.) |
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::::Any help that can be given with completing these is welcome.~ ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:teal">Frozen</span>]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:green">Fennec</span>]]'' 13:56, 2 December 2018 (UTC) | ::::Any help that can be given with completing these is welcome.~ ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:teal">Frozen</span>]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:green">Fennec</span>]]'' 13:56, 2 December 2018 (UTC) | ||
I hope I don't sound rude, but it's been well over six months since the public release of the Spaceworld demo, and all the chaos surrounding LGPE has passed. I believe it would be a grave mistake if we don't document this incredibly important piece of Pokémon history in the near future. I also believe that if we start mainspacing information on it little by little, such as [[User:Celadonkey/Spaceworld|a single page on one Pokémon]] or [[User:Frozen_Fennec/Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver_Spaceworld_Demo|a page summarizing the demo]], then it would spur more interest in adding more and more, and through the teamwork of the contributors of this website, we could very quickly have comprehensive information about the demo up. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 19:36, 2 January 2019 (UTC) | I hope I don't sound rude, but it's been well over six months since the public release of the Spaceworld demo, and all the chaos surrounding LGPE has passed. I believe it would be a grave mistake if we don't document this incredibly important piece of Pokémon history in the near future. I also believe that if we start mainspacing information on it little by little, such as [[User:Celadonkey/Spaceworld|a single page on one Pokémon]] or [[User:Frozen_Fennec/Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver_Spaceworld_Demo|a page summarizing the demo]], then it would spur more interest in adding more and more, and through the teamwork of the contributors of this website, we could very quickly have comprehensive information about the demo up. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 19:36, 2 January 2019 (UTC) | ||
:I have pretty much given up unless Bulbapedia gives any indication that they desire the SpaceWorld articles to ever be mainspaced, but [[User:Yoriven/SpaceWorld/Learnsets2|here]] is the work that I had done awhile ago on the moveset tables for all pokemon who were left out of the final version of the game. Good luck to anyone who is still working hard on this, you're real troopers! [[User:Yoriven|Yoriven]] ([[User talk:Yoriven|talk]]) 21:34, 15 May 2019 (UTC) | |||
::Frozen Fennec and I have been working hard at [[User:Frozen Fennec/Pokémon Gold and Silver Spaceworld Demo|this page]]-- I have already sent it to an administrator who said they would pass it on to the others. The future is, in my terribly optimistic opinion, looking bright for Spaceworld information on BP. --[[User:Celadonkey|<span style="color:#004EA2">cela</span><span style="color:#B60007">donk</span>]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 21:09, 16 May 2019 (UTC) | |||
== Spaceworld Information == | == Spaceworld Information == | ||
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:I don't see how HC's "Capumon mockup hack" undermines the authenticity of the leaked Spaceworld ROM. That mockup ROM was actually very easy to identify as it is a simple hacked version of an English-language Yellow ROM. It can be identified right away as such and it is obvious that an actual leaked ROM wouldn't look like this (it wouldn't be based on Yellow, work on GBC and be in English). It wasn't even intended as something meant to trick people, more like some kind of fan imagination (it was their error to present it in such a way, creating all that confusion among the fans). The Spaceworld GS demo does not have such betraying features - it has all traits of an independent ROM base, something that would be very hard (if not impossible) to fake in a convincing way. Also, if we take that Helix Chamber are a bunch of scammers who dedicate their time to fabricating fake leaks, why did they never finish the announced translation patch for GS97? This just doesn't make sense. Face it, arguing that GS97 ROM is a hack is nothing more than a conspiracy theory at this moment. Also, to me it sounds like a notable thing for article ''even'' if it is a fake (we have articles on numerous fandom phenomena with much less impact than it). My advice about making the article on Spaceworld demo is that I would draw a clear line between the accessible material (since this is actually something that has been made public) and all that unfinished stuff that are not accessible without cheating/debugging. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 20:00, 25 March 2019 (UTC) | :I don't see how HC's "Capumon mockup hack" undermines the authenticity of the leaked Spaceworld ROM. That mockup ROM was actually very easy to identify as it is a simple hacked version of an English-language Yellow ROM. It can be identified right away as such and it is obvious that an actual leaked ROM wouldn't look like this (it wouldn't be based on Yellow, work on GBC and be in English). It wasn't even intended as something meant to trick people, more like some kind of fan imagination (it was their error to present it in such a way, creating all that confusion among the fans). The Spaceworld GS demo does not have such betraying features - it has all traits of an independent ROM base, something that would be very hard (if not impossible) to fake in a convincing way. Also, if we take that Helix Chamber are a bunch of scammers who dedicate their time to fabricating fake leaks, why did they never finish the announced translation patch for GS97? This just doesn't make sense. Face it, arguing that GS97 ROM is a hack is nothing more than a conspiracy theory at this moment. Also, to me it sounds like a notable thing for article ''even'' if it is a fake (we have articles on numerous fandom phenomena with much less impact than it). My advice about making the article on Spaceworld demo is that I would draw a clear line between the accessible material (since this is actually something that has been made public) and all that unfinished stuff that are not accessible without cheating/debugging. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 20:00, 25 March 2019 (UTC) | ||
::That's a good call for that last part, I wouldn't have thought to do that. For individual Pokemon pages for Pokemon unavailable without debug mode, would it be best to put a statement like "This Pokemon is unavailable in the demo without the use of debug mode" or something similar? --[[User:Celadonkey|<span style="color:#004EA2">cela</span><span style="color:#B60007">donk</span>]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 20:06, 25 March 2019 (UTC) | ::That's a good call for that last part, I wouldn't have thought to do that. For individual Pokemon pages for Pokemon unavailable without debug mode, would it be best to put a statement like "This Pokemon is unavailable in the demo without the use of debug mode" or something similar? --[[User:Celadonkey|<span style="color:#004EA2">cela</span><span style="color:#B60007">donk</span>]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 20:06, 25 March 2019 (UTC) | ||
:::Any attempts to add anything about the spaceworld demo still needs approval from the editorial board. I've made my stance pretty clear on this.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 03:35, 26 March 2019 (UTC) | |||
::::We know that. We’re just discussing. --[[User:Celadonkey|<span style="color:#004EA2">cela</span><span style="color:#B60007">donk</span>]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 13:19, 26 March 2019 (UTC) | |||
:::::I'd encourage people to separate the information Helix Chamber received from the poorly-conceived and mismanaged way in which they chose to reveal it to the world. The source provided them with information in an extremely unhelpful manner (it's the digital equivalent of an amateur digging up an archeological site themselves and handing any artifacts they uncover to experts rather than allowing those experts to excavate and catalogue their findings scientifically) and they did what they could to verify its authenticity. [[User:ThomasWinwood|ThomasWinwood]] ([[User talk:ThomasWinwood|talk]]) 19:27, 20 April 2019 (UTC) | |||
So we are now approaching the one year anniversary of the public debut of the Spaceworld demo rom. That’s one year we’ve gone without any of this information on the site. And I get it, in the early stages it wasn’t exactly confirmed if it was real or not, but we’ve known that it is for a while now. And I know how the processes work here for approving changes to the site, but frankly, this shouldn’t ''need'' such a process— to be blunt, it should just be common sense that something so important to the history of Pokémon be allowed to be added without any kind of hesitation. Hell, even Wikipedia— a non Pokémon focused wiki— has an {{wp|Unused Pokémon in the 1997 Pokémon Gold and Silver demo|article}} dedicated to it. The point is, we can’t continue to call ourselves a Pokémon encyclopedia if we are to deliberately ignore such crucial information. We’ve tiptoed around this for a long time. It’s time to make a decision. --[[User:Celadonkey|<span style="color:#004EA2">cela</span><span style="color:#B60007">donk</span>]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 12:49, 6 May 2019 (UTC) | |||
:The editorial board is still debating this? Has the number of irrefutable proof of the demo's authenticity posted by Celadonkey and others been presented to them? [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 05:22, 27 May 2019 (UTC) | |||
::It has been presented but I doubt it's still being debated by mods, and honestly, I doubt it even has been to the extent to which you're picturing. Over the past year and a day (because, as of yesterday, the introduction of the ROM to the internet is a year old) it has been fruitlessly brought up probably more separate times that I can count on my hands. Personally, I've probably written enough about BP's treatment of the ROM both here and on the Discord to write a book, and I know others have too. But every time it is brought up it is largely ignored by people who, well, hold ANY power over the future of Bulbapedia. Either way, this is getting ridiculous. | |||
::My view on BP is getting exponentially more cynical as it continues to ignore something so crucial. Come on, guys. It's been over a year now and a lot of us still have to implore to include Pokemon information on a Pokemon wiki. We're better than this, right? --[[User:Celadonkey|<span style="color:#004EA2">cela</span><span style="color:#B60007">donk</span>]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 19:35, 27 May 2019 (UTC) | |||
:::I have to agree, this is ridiculous. This is about the only place on the web that refuses to acknowledge the demo's legitimacy. And even then, it seems to be mostly Bulbapedia's staff; people are tired of explaining that the demo has been proved legit, but it all seems to fall on deaf ears. How paranoid and (frankly speaking) clueless can the staff be regarding the subject? [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 12:22, 28 May 2019 (UTC) | |||
::::Seems my page has been being looked at for about 2 weeks now if I recall correctly. celadonk and staff member abcboy have both helped a lot on it. I am hoping sometime in the next week or two it could be approved so more people can help add on to the page itself as well. While it has been roughly a year since it was confirmed and NO STAFF MEMBER is saying it is "not valid information" and such as you seem to be accusing them of. We always need to wait for them to move the pages to the mainspace which I do not have as much of an issue with. Probably going to try adding a bit more to it later today and seeing if I can ask a little more about mainspacing the article one more time. :) ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:teal">Frozen</span>]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:green">Fennec</span>]]'' 13:47, 28 May 2019 (UTC) | |||
:::::So the staff isn't debating its authenticity? Ah, my apologies to them then. I'm just frustrated that it has been over a year and it's still not covered by Bulbapedia, userspace aside. I think that's the longest we have gone on without adding widely known verified information. [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 14:13, 28 May 2019 (UTC) | |||
::::::Frozen Fennec, I hope I don't come across as rude, but there has actually been a staff member who has expressed their <s>unfounded</s> opinion that the Spaceworld demo is not valid information, although I will not say who. (It's pretty easy to find out.) And we've been waiting for a year and two days now. We've known it was real for most of that 367-day period. Honestly, I personally ''do'' have an issue with continuing to have to wait for really any fruitful acknowledgement or progress. | |||
::::::I might try and work on some pages too but Bulbapedia is pretty low on the life priority list for me, especially as school comes to a close for the year. If I were to decide (which, to be clear, I'm not), I'd say that the article in your userspace is pretty much good enough to mainspace as a solid summary of the ROM, save for certain images that would need to be uploaded. --[[User:Celadonkey|<span style="color:#004EA2">cela</span><span style="color:#B60007">donk</span>]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 22:13, 28 May 2019 (UTC) | |||
The Pokedex format seen in the Spaceworld demo ROM can be seen at 10:33 of this video.: | |||
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFSFouk-iqc&feature=youtu.be | |||
[[User:Tyler11|Tyler11]] ([[User talk:Tyler11|talk]]) 14:28, 19 July 2019 (UTC) | |||
:The more footage from Spaceworld 1997 that comes up and matches up perfectly with the the "fake Spaceworld leak", the sadder it becomes that some people are still in denial of its veracity. Aside from everything SnorlaxMonster, Maxim, and others pointed out previously, it'd be impossible for it to be fake unless the person who made the leak was actually at Spaceworld 1997 themselves and explored everything possible in the demo, recreated it perfectly 20+ years later, then added in a bunch of inaccessible fake data. It's conspiracy theory at this point. [[User:Poliwhirl|Poliwhirl]] ([[User talk:Poliwhirl|talk]]) 14:44, 19 July 2019 (UTC) | |||
::At this point I doubt that there is anyone in denial apart from one nameless moderator. I think it's mostly just lack of discussion within the moderator team about how to implement it. I know that a few of the mods-- Spriteit and Abcboy come to mind-- have been pushing for action, so the issue at least isn't completely stagnant. | |||
::Apart from that, I don't really understand what decision making needs to be done apart from the obvious "yes" to whether we should put information on it on the site-- it's undeniably real, as we've been over many many times, and much of the groundwork has already been done by both average users and moderators in their userspaces. | |||
::It makes me wish that a) the mod team was less private/more transparent about important decisions that average members have been pushing for, such as this, and b) that average members had a little more say in what goes on here. That being said, I am very grateful to the two aforementioned mods for being very polite, cooperative, and transparent about this whole issue. | |||
::In the meantime, there's a page [[User:Frozen Fennec/Pokémon Gold and Silver Spaceworld Demo|here]] that is basically ready to go. | |||
::Idk if this is too optimistic or not, but hopefully if I come back in two or so years the all clear will have been given. --[[User:Celadonkey|<span style="color:#00A1E9">cela</span><span style="color:#BF004F">donk</span>]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 16:40, 19 July 2019 (UTC) | |||
I find it extremely odd that the Spaceworld information hasn't been implemented yet. It is borderline indisputable that this is real, there are far too many coincidences. Hell, I have further proof that it's real: the fact Tyranitar isn't in the demo. The MicroGroup Game Review Magazine specifically says that Tyranitar wasn't canon (as were none of the other designs), and this was released in April of 1997. The accurate translation only came to light after the demo's leak [https://plaguevonkarmabeta.weebly.com/blog/microgroup-game-review-vol14-sugimori-retranslated when Plague von Karma bought the magazine herself and had Obskyr look at it]. Tyranitar wasn't added in until after Spaceworld 1997, quite clearly. The rest not even being in the ROM furthers the evidence of this demo's legitimacy as well as a result of this. The person releasing this could not have known any of this without retranslating this magazine themselves. Why go through all that effort for such a hoax? --[[User:Pichu Madman26|Pichu Madman26]] ([[User talk:Pichu Madman26|talk]]) 03:50, 9 August 2019 (UTC) | |||
:I don't think that's the best piece of evidence, but it shouldn't really matter, because we already are 100% sure it's real. The issue is that most of staff seems to be ignoring this completely. | |||
:Other than that, I just want to bump this thread again. I rarely even use Bulbapedia anymore these days but it still disappoints me to see this still being pleaded for. | |||
:If any mods are reading this, please at least let us know what's going on. --[[User:Celadonkey|<span style="color:#00A1E9">cela</span><span style="color:#BF004F">donk</span>]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:36, 13 August 2019 (UTC) | |||