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Talk:Personality value: Difference between revisions
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what is the Unown calc in the second games? (Gold silver crystal) --[[User:Hanmac|Hanmac]] 16:16, 6 July 2009 (UTC) | what is the Unown calc in the second games? (Gold silver crystal) --[[User:Hanmac|Hanmac]] 16:16, 6 July 2009 (UTC) | ||
==Gender== | ==Gender== | ||
Maybe no one else noticed this, but the gender equation doesn't work correctly. If it was a 100% female (base gender of 254), then the ''p<sub>gender</sub>'' could potentially be 255 which is higher than 254 resulting in a male Pokémon when that Pokémon is supposed to be female-only. --[[User:Naokohiro|Naokohiro]] 22:30, 7 August 2008 (UTC) | Maybe no one else noticed this, but the gender equation doesn't work correctly. If it was a 100% female (base gender of 254), then the ''p<sub>gender</sub>'' could potentially be 255 which is higher than 254 resulting in a male Pokémon when that Pokémon is supposed to be female-only. --[[User:Naokohiro|Naokohiro]] 22:30, 7 August 2008 (UTC) | ||
:What it does is it first checks the base gender stat. If the BGS is 0, the Pokémon is automatically male; if it's 254, the Pokémon is automatically female; if it's 255, the Pokémon is automatically genderless. For any other value, it will make the equal-to-or-greater-means-male comparison. Otherwise, Female-only Pokémon could be male 1/128 of the time, and genderless Pokémon could be male 1/256 of the time. --[[User:JoeMoron2000|JoeMoron2000]] 16:15, 29 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
== Wurmple == | == Wurmple == | ||
Can someone tell me what personality a Wurmple needs to become a Dustox. I don't understand this equation at all. Plus it would just be so much easier to list the ones that work. | Can someone tell me what personality a Wurmple needs to become a Dustox. I don't understand this equation at all. Plus it would just be so much easier to list the ones that work. {{unsigned|Mystrich}} | ||
:That's [[nature]], determined itself from personality value. You'd need to go through many more calculations than simply looking at what nature the Pokémon is to see if it's gonna become a Silcoon or a Cascoon. <span style="background:#FF9030">'''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#000000">chidna</span>]]</span> | :That's [[nature]], determined itself from personality value. You'd need to go through many more calculations than simply looking at what nature the Pokémon is to see if it's gonna become a Silcoon or a Cascoon. <span style="background:#FF9030">'''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#000000">chidna</span>]]</span><span style="background:#664444">[[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|<sup><span style="color:#FFD700">G</span></sup><sub><span style="color:#E0E0E0">S</span></sub><span style="color:#000000">DS!</span>]]'''</span> 02:43, 18 February 2008 (UTC) | ||
::Ah, well do you think you would be able to explain how to figure it out. I've captured an evolved a lot of wurmples and not one has been a cascoon. | ::Ah, well do you think you would be able to explain how to figure it out. I've captured an evolved a lot of wurmples and not one has been a cascoon. {{unsigned|Mystrich}} | ||
:::I really don't know myself... Just get lucky, I guess... <span style="background:#FF9030">'''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#000000">chidna</span>]]</span> | :::I really don't know myself... Just get lucky, I guess... <span style="background:#FF9030">'''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#000000">chidna</span>]]</span><span style="background:#664444">[[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|<sup><span style="color:#FFD700">G</span></sup><sub><span style="color:#E0E0E0">S</span></sub><span style="color:#000000">DS!</span>]]'''</span> 20:14, 18 February 2008 (UTC) | ||
::::Does the personality value's effect on nature imply that certain natures of Wurmple are more likely to evolve into Silcoon than Cascoon? [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 04:05, 20 February 2008 (UTC) | ::::Does the personality value's effect on nature imply that certain natures of Wurmple are more likely to evolve into Silcoon than Cascoon? [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 04:05, 20 February 2008 (UTC) | ||
:::::It might... though Wurmple's evolution is determined by the lowest word value, while nature is on the overall p doubleword. <span style="background:#FF9030">'''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#000000">chidna</span>]]</span> | :::::It might... though Wurmple's evolution is determined by the lowest word value, while nature is on the overall p doubleword. <span style="background:#FF9030">'''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#000000">chidna</span>]]</span><span style="background:#664444">[[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|<sup><span style="color:#FFD700">G</span></sup><sub><span style="color:#E0E0E0">S</span></sub><span style="color:#000000">DS!</span>]]'''</span> 05:04, 20 February 2008 (UTC) | ||
:::::Yes, it may, but only veeeeery slightly. Think of it this way: | :::::Yes, it may, but only veeeeery slightly. Think of it this way: | ||
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The formula for determining shininess is redundant. You don't need the variables E or F at all - the formula boils down to (p<sub>1</sub> xor p<sub>2</sub>) xor (ID xor SID), which is just p<sub>1</sub> xor p<sub>2</sub> xor ID xor SID. Xor is associative and commutative. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 17:51, 28 January 2010 (UTC) | The formula for determining shininess is redundant. You don't need the variables E or F at all - the formula boils down to (p<sub>1</sub> xor p<sub>2</sub>) xor (ID xor SID), which is just p<sub>1</sub> xor p<sub>2</sub> xor ID xor SID. Xor is associative and commutative. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 17:51, 28 January 2010 (UTC) | ||
:*If that's the actual formula Nintendo uses, I need a word with their programmers. | :*If that's the actual formula Nintendo uses, I need a word with their programmers. | ||
: It's not that it's redundant, it's just that it uses more memory than necessary. You're still doing three xor operations in both cases, it's just that this way makes it easier to comprehend... or something like that. --[[User:JoeMoron2000|JoeMoron2000]] 16:20, 29 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
:: Well, by redundancy I meant with memory, but alright. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 18:50, 29 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
== Gender AND Unown letter? == | |||
The gender byte doesn't matter on Unown, right? Because having 11111111 (for genderless) would cause to never span certain Unown shapes (only modulus would be 3, 7, 11, etc.) --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 07:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC) | |||
:It doesn't have to be that number, that is the 'base stat' for the Pokemon. In otherwords it can be anything for any individual Pokemon. The Pokemon's value is then compared to the base stat value (in this case 11111111), if it is lower it is female (except for genderless species) and if it is higher then it is male. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</sc> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 07:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC) | |||
::Oh, I get it now :) So it's just a flag for the species which is used for comparisons only on unisex species. Thanks for the answer. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 01:45, 8 August 2010 (UTC) | |||
== Shiny imposibility == | |||
With all the ⊕ing is it posible that some trainers with insainly high IDs and SIDs cant posibly get a shiny. I personaly dont understand the math of an ⊕ so could sombody please explain and awnser my question.--[[User:Megamaxxor|<span style="color:#0047AB">'''''Mega'''''</span>]][[User talk:Megamaxxor|<span style="color:#E5E4E2">'''maxxor'''</span>]]-- 01:00, 11 February 2011 (UTC) | |||
:It's always possible to get a shiny. Given a player with ID ''a'' and SID ''b'', a Pokémon with a personality value in which ''p<sub>1</sub>'' is 0 and ''p<sub>2</sub>'' equals ''a'' xor ''b'' (among many other possible personality values) will be shiny. —[[User:Minimiscience|Minimiscience]] 01:28, 11 February 2011 (UTC) | |||
::To clarify a little more, since Megamaxxor doesn't quite understand the ⊕ operation: If what Minimiscience said is true, then let's go with that example. | |||
::*Let's take the numbers ''a'' (trainer ID), ''b'' (trainer SID), and the Pokémon's personality value and convert them into binary representation (base 2). In binary, ''a'' and ''b'' have 16 bits, or digits. | |||
::*When we do ''a'' ⊕ ''b'', we're checking each bit to see if they're the same between ''a'' and ''b''. For example, suppose we're checking the 5th bit of ''a'' and ''b''. The 5th bit of ''a'' ⊕ ''b'' will be 0 if the 5th bit of ''a'' is the same as the 5th bit of ''b'', and 1 otherwise. We then get another 16-bit number in ''a'' ⊕ ''b''. | |||
::*Now we check the personality value's binary representation, which is a 32-bit number (unlike ''a'' or ''b''). If the leftmost 16 bits of the personality value are all 0, and the rightmost 16 bits of the personality value are exactly the same as what you got for ''a'' ⊕ ''b'', then the Pokémon with that personality value is shiny. | |||
::Since trainer and secret IDs can each be anywhere (in binary) from 0000000000000000 to 1111111111111111, and a Pokémon personality value can be anywhere from 00000000000000000000000000000000 to 11111111111111111111111111111111, what's actually impossible is finding a situation where you can't find a possible shiny combination in that example that I referred to. Of course, as Minimiscience said, the example that I referred to is just one possible combination of ID, secret ID, and personality value for a shiny Pokémon. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 03:27, 11 February 2011 (UTC) | |||
Thanks for the brife explanation so your saying that all numbers in the ⊕ combonation except for the last (Befor final ⊕) have to be the same. But if were olny working with zeros and 1's why does the equation say below 8 if there are olny two posible combonations?--[[User:Megamaxxor|<span style="color:#0047AB">'''''Mega'''''</span>]][[User talk:Megamaxxor|<span style="color:#E5E4E2">'''maxxor'''</span>]]-- 18:55, 11 February 2011 (UTC) | |||
:When they said "less than eight" they meant 8, in binary representation. The number 8 in 16-bit binary representation is 0000000000001000, so you can think of "less than eight" as any 16-bit binary number whose leftmost 13 bits are all 0. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 20:24, 11 February 2011 (UTC) | |||
==Finding out your Secret ID== | |||
So, if I'm correct, (and I'm probably not) you could catch a bunch of shiny Spinda or Unown, and use the spot locations (or letter) to find out part, if not your whole Secret ID? --''[[User:PichuMaster|<span style="color:yellow">Pichu</span>]]'' ''[[User_talk:PichuMaster|<span style="color:red">Master</span>]]'' 18:25, 19 May 2011 (UTC) | |||
== Update needed in the Shiny section == | |||
Since the chance of finding a Shiny has increased in Gen VI, the article section on shininess needs updated to reflect this. I have no head for math or anything like that, so someone who knows what they're doing will need to update the section accordingly. [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 14:52, 22 January 2014 (UTC) | |||
==Gender and Ability== | |||
I think there is something wrong with either the gender or ability section, the way it's currently written would suggest that all male only species have and PV ending with 00000000 which makes the PV even and gives the first ability, all female only species a PV ending with 11111110 which again is even with the first ability and genderless species ending with 11111111 which gives an odd PV and therefore the second ability, yet the examples given Magnemite and the Nidorans all have 2 possible abilities. {{unsigned|Purple}} | |||
:Those values do not refer to an individual Pokemon's PV, they are gender thresholds (values that are set for every species of Pokemon and compared against the individual's PV). In any case, logically, the game ''must'' handle all-female species (and therefore likely all-male and genderless as well) specially; if not, it would be possible for a Pokemon's PV to be interpreted as an invalid gender. A Pokemon's PV should be able to be absolutely anything for all-male, all-female, or genderless Pokemon. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:11, 17 May 2014 (UTC) | |||
== Nature in Gen V? == | |||
The page says, "''From Generation V onward, the nature is untied from the personality value, and stored separately.''" | |||
Does that mean that the nature ''never'' has anything to do with the personality value, and is calculated on its own at some point? Or does it just mean that the nature is initially calculated from the personality value and ''then'' stored in an independent location so that it doesn't have to be recalculated every time it needs to be known? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 14:38, 9 August 2014 (UTC) | |||
:The reason it was done was that the Masuda method was clashing with the Everstone in Gen IV, and the Shiny Charm would have just caused more issues with Synchronize. I would assume it means they are completely separate. Based on Shiny event Pokémon that have random Natures (and can be any Nature) and fixed Trainer IDs/Secret IDs, I'm fairly sure this is the case. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 15:25, 9 August 2014 (UTC) | |||
== Encryption constant == | |||
I don't know the specific details, but apparently now Spinda's spots, Wurmple's evolution, and the characteristic in the case of a tie are determined by the Pokémon's "encryption constant" instead of its personality value. From what I've read, the encryption constant is equal to the PID for Pokémon from previous generations, so there's no backwards compatibility issues. If someone with more knowledge could address this in this article (and maybe make an article for the "encryption constant", since it seems to determine more things in Gen VI than PID does), that would be appreciated. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 11:49, 3 June 2016 (UTC) | |||
:Now that I look at it again, a separate article on the encryption constant will be/is too similar to this article. A better long-term solution might be to have an article about the Gen VI data structure instead. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 08:39, 16 June 2016 (UTC) | |||
::If the encryption constant substitutes perfectly for the PID where it's been implemented, then we could perhaps just redirect encryption constant here and add a bit of detail here. Outside of a few things the PID used to do (and, obviously, encrypting the Pokemon data structure), does the encryption constant do much else? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 13:42, 16 June 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::To the best of my knowledge (assuming that there is no new feature/mechanic introduced in gen VI which would have otherwise depended on PID in a previous generation), no. Also, someone else might want to confirm if "encryption constant" is a fan designator. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 17:57, 30 June 2016 (UTC) | |||
== The relationship between PID and gender == | |||
This is no longer true with the introduction of a new byte in the Pokemon's data. I extracted data from a gen VI savefile and checked against Pokemon which are known to be legit (generated in-game, and untouched), and confirmed that the PID has no effect on gender. The opposite is also true–the game does not generate a PID to "fit" the Pokemon's gender (and thresholds). | |||
A bit more about this byte: gender is determined by a bit field in 0x1D in gen VI, presumably primarily intended to store the forme (if any) of the Pokemon. It seems that this particular byte was introduced in gen IV at offset 0x40. I don't have a gen IV savefile to check against at this moment, but I suspect, given gen IV's quirks when it comes to PID generation, while PID may not affect gender in gen IV, the opposite could be true in the sense that gender will affect the final PID generated. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 17:54, 30 June 2016 (UTC) | |||
== Litleo and Pyroar's ideal ratio == | |||
Does anyone have a guidebook that says what their ideal ratio (or percentage) is? We currently say it's "1:7", but just from the numbers, I guess it could actually be ''intended'' to be "1:8" (and/or just buggy). [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 13:28, 11 June 2017 (UTC) | |||
:The ratios are logically based on powers of 2. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 15:48, 11 June 2017 (UTC) | |||
::Please see [[User talk:Nescientist#Gender ratios|here]] for why I ask for explicit confirmation of their intention (and/or your logic) for those two. (I agree that they're "logically powers of 2" for the others.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 19:16, 11 June 2017 (UTC) | |||
:::Without wading through that wall of text, if you agree the others are logically powers of two, it's basically nonsensical to doubt that Litleo is also a mirror of one of those. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:36, 11 June 2017 (UTC) | |||
::::Whoa! You can't say that a theory is nonsensical without even trying to understand it thoroughly. I believe my theory is absolutely worth being investigated (or at least mentioned), even more so when {{u|Earthoul}} [https://twitter.com/earthoul_0xf9/status/873010165145935873 apparently] had the very same idea, independently (and within a 140 character limit). It's okay if ''you'' don't want to pursue this in any way, and this discussion petering out wouldn't be the end of the world, but please don't make it look like an answer isn't desirable or sensible. | |||
::::Some official confirmation (either way) would be really neat. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 15:51, 13 June 2017 (UTC) | |||
:::::...All your referencing of arguments/justification makes it seem like you're trying to actually argue for it to be changed, which has made me want to say, no, there's not good reason to change it yet. If an explicit confirmation one way or another of the intentions is all you want, it'd be much cleaner/less confusing if that was all you said (at least in your responses). I've come to understand now. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:43, 13 June 2017 (UTC) | |||
== Official name of Personality value == | |||
It is called an "individual random numbers (Japanese:こたい らんすう, 個体乱数)" among developers. You can find out this name from unused text data of 4th Gen Japanese ROMs.--[[User:Rosenwaldt|Rosenwaldt]] ([[User talk:Rosenwaldt|talk]]) 08:47, 16 March 2018 (UTC) | |||
==table== | |||
i noticed something. apparently in gen 6,the only thing determined by personality value is shininess. so in gen 6,how is wurmple's evolution determined?[[User:Pikachu210|Pikachu210]] ([[User talk:Pikachu210|talk]]) 22:05, 16 November 2018 (UTC) | |||