View source for Talk:Mythical Pokémon

==An errors==
All the sections should not start with one (1) = and then move upwards but instead start with two (2) == and from there move onto three (3) and four (4) etc. --[[User:Raltseye|<span style="color:#FF6464">R</span><span style="color:#11BB11">alts</span>]][[User talk:Raltseye|<span style="color:#6890F0">e</span><span style="color:#6464FF">y</span><span style="color:#6890F0">e</span>]] 12:23, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
:Thank you for the information. It should be fixed now. Were there any other errors with the page's layout that you noticed? [[User:Pacack| <span style="background:#000000"><span style="color:#ffe700">'''Pa'''ᗧ•••</span><span style="color:#0000FF">ᗣ'''ck'''</span> </span>]] 17:16, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
::Yes 
::1. Add a see also section as follow:
::<nowiki>
==See also==</nowiki>
::* [[Legendary Pokémon]]
::* [[Event Pokémon]]
::* [[Special Pokémon]]
::* {{redlink|Myths and legends involving Legendary Pokémon}}
::* [[Sinnoh myths]]
::* [[History of the Pokémon world]]
::* [[Pseudo-legendary Pokémon]] (mayby)
::2. Mayby adding a average stats template and seperate the Legendary Pokémon template to a Mythical Pokémon template and add that here but that can be done when this has been mainspaced instead perhaps. --[[User:Raltseye|<span style="color:#FF6464">R</span><span style="color:#11BB11">alts</span>]][[User talk:Raltseye|<span style="color:#6890F0">e</span><span style="color:#6464FF">y</span><span style="color:#6890F0">e</span>]] 15:42, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
:::I'll definitely add a see also section. I'll also add an average stats and "If you were looking for" section. However, those are coming after the bulk of the article is finished.
:::May I ask what you mean by separating the Legendary Pokémon template from the Mythical Pokémon template? [[User:Pacack| <span style="background:#000000"><span style="color:#ffe700">'''Pa'''ᗧ•••</span><span style="color:#0000FF">ᗣ'''ck'''</span> </span>]] 04:07, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

== Is it worth mentioning that PMD's Alakazam considers Lati@s mythical? ==

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAADAAADV0aGGv6oMQ

I will be honest, I still consider mythicals to be legendaries. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 06:22, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
:The image shows Alakazam saying mythical (lowercase) not Mythical or Mythical Pokémon. The word "mythical" =/= "Mythical Pokémon", otherwise Arcanine would be a Legendary Pokémon, etc. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 06:36, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
::Ah, didn't realize capitalization mattered. Sorry. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 06:37, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
:::Also, Red/Blue Rescue Team are from [[Generation III]], and the English localizations didn't start distinguishing between Legendary and Mythical Pokémon until [[Generation V]]. Anything from before Gen V can't reliably be used to prove things one way or the other. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 06:51, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
::::Really? That's good to know, thanks. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 15:30, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

== Trivia ==

Is it worth mentioning that, if Arceus holding the Mind Plate is counted, every generation has introduced at least one Psychic-Type Mythical Pokemon?--[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 00:03, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
:I wouldn't think so. We don't typically count Arceus as anything but Normal for the purposes of trivia. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 01:33, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

== Poodle is a dog. ==

Aren't Mythical Pokemon still Legendary Pokemon? You wouldn't say a poodle isn't a dog. {{unsigned|TsukikoKoizumi}}
:That's not logic. You're completely presuming that Mythicals are Legendary, not "proving" it in any way.
:I'm not entirely familiar enough to tell you why, but it has been our clear policy that Legendaries and Mythicals are separate. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 07:27, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
::"Mythical Pokémon [...] are a group of Legendary Pokémon seen so rarely in the Pokémon world that some question their very existence." --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:29, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
Ok, tell me, not counting Phione, who is still debatable as a Mythical Pokemon, how many Mythical Pokemon can you get that have no legend attached to them? The definition I've been given is "Event-only Pokemon". Personally, I agree with Super goku, that makes the most sense. [[User:TsukikoKoizumi|TsukikoKoizumi]] ([[User talk:TsukikoKoizumi|talk]]) 07:35, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
:"Legendary" Pokemon are not defined by having a "legend". Rather simply, only Pokemon that official sources call "Legendary Pokemon" are Legendary Pokemon. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 07:44, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
::The definition I've been given is "Event-only Pokemon" (which, btw, would include Surfing Pikachu, and I'm pretty sure we can all agree that isn't a Mythical Pokemon.), while the best description of a Legendary Pokemon I've gotten from your site is a Pokemon you can only get once per game cartridge. Well, that definition includes Mythical and Starter Pokemon, so a better explanation would be "A Pokemon that, in-universe, has a legend associated with it", but that would include Mythical Pokemon, hence why I suggested stating they were a ''class'' of Legendary Pokemon. So, to sum it up, it'd be inaccurate to say they aren't Legendary as well. Personally, I agree with Super goku, that makes the most sense. {{unsigned|TsukikoKoizumi}}
:::The definition of Legendary Pokémon is "a Pokémon that Game Freak has explicitly defined as Legendary," and likewise for Mythical, period, end of story. Game Freak treats them as non-overlapping classes (note the phraseology is always "Legendary ''and'' Mythical Pokémon", implying separateness), so we do too. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 07:58, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
::::Yes, that. Official sources call certain Pokemon Legendary and certain ones Mythical consistently. It's not up to you or us to conflate them because we think it makes "better sense". (And "Surfing Pikachu" may be event-exclusive, but ''Pikachu'' is not.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 08:01, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::I hate to interrupt, but I was just quoting the article at the time I saw it and did not notice that it was your edit, TsukikiKoizumi.  There is apparently a rule that conversation chains cannot be broken up, so I had to follow Tiddlywinks comment.  Either way, I just thought that you were asking a question that was answered by the article, not that I was agreeing with you. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]])
I have an idea, since we can't see eye to eye (Mythical Pokemon have been Legendary Pokemon this whole time. Using a different term to better identify them doesn't change that. Eeveelutions are still evolutions of Eevee), tomorrow, we get Magearna. The Alola Pokedex separates Pokemon based off of Legendary/UB/etc, so surely if Mythical and Legendary are so different, it'll notify us, right? I'll be getting it too, so I can check for myself. If it shows them as completely different beings, I will apologize. Either way, I'll try to get a picture. [[User:TsukikoKoizumi|TsukikoKoizumi]] ([[User talk:TsukikoKoizumi|talk]]) 08:10, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
:If I remember the data leaks correctly, Magearna has the same colored background as Cosmog's line/Necrozma/Zygarde. But please note that [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Legendary_Pok%C3%A9mon&diff=2547107&oldid=2547079 per guidance by SnorlaxMonster, who is a staff member], the Pokédex's background colors do not take priority over more explicitly clear definitions by Game Freak, which have unwaveringly treated Legendaries and Mythicals as separate groups. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 08:35, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
::If you register a Mythical Pokémon in your Pokédex, Rotom comments "''Zzzrk?! Wait... Izzz that— Izzz that a Mythical Pokémon?!''". If you're talking about the [http://imgur.com/a/1xkGy Pokédex backgrounds], Legendary and Mythical Pokémon use the same background in the Pokédex (although it's not like it's stated anywhere that it's exclusively for Legendary Pokémon, it's simply the two sharing something just like how they can be excluded by the same GTS filter). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 08:37, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
Well then that brings forth a conundrum, as that would mean Mythical is just a term being used to identify them more easily. And thus wouldn't make sense if Mythicals eren't also Legendaries. [[User:TsukikoKoizumi|TsukikoKoizumi]] ([[User talk:TsukikoKoizumi|talk]]) 08:41, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
:::@SnorlaxMonster: Ah, yes, that's exactly the album I've been looking for but hadn't been able to find! And I didn't realize Rotom would give a specific line for Mythicals. Thanks for pointing both of those out. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 08:44, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
I actually meant the Rotom Quote. I guess that's kinda confusing then; them sharing the background would make it see Mythicals would be Legendaries. Or at leaest cousins, like how legends are stories with a bit of truth, but myths, while in the sae family as legends, are fabrications with little to no basis in fact. Would that make sense, them being cousins? (To make it a bit easier to think about, it's like Alolan variants. They are the same species, but radically different, maybe?) [[User:TsukikoKoizumi|TsukikoKoizumi]] ([[User talk:TsukikoKoizumi|talk]]) 08:52, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
:They ''were'' one and the same before, but the Legendary/Mythical split was made apparent only by last year when, as the article states, non-japanese media started to follow the japanese media.[[User:Animaltamer7|Animaltamer7]]09:14, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
::It wasn't last year, it was much earlier: Generation V. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 09:22, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
:In fact, Mythical Pokémon is a branch of Legendary Pokémon. Otherwise why the movie called Lugia a "Mythical Pokémon"? Why did Pokemon Special manga places them on the equal footing in volume 40? And why Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina are called Legendary Pokémon, but Arceus is not since Mythical Pokémon is not Legendary Pokémon? [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 09:58, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
::Lugia isn't a Mythical Pokémon, so I agree that the Japanese name of [[M02]] is a bit strange, but you bringing this up seems like you're arguing that Legendary Pokémon are the same group as Mythical Pokémon, rather than Mythical Pokémon being a subset of Legendary Pokémon.
::You'll have to clarify what you mean by placing them on "equal footing" in volume 40, but there's no reason that Legendary and Mythical Pokémon shouldn't be, even as separate groups.
::There's no conflict between the [[creation trio]] being Legendary and Arceus being Mythical. I don't see what the issue there is at all. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 11:12, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
::Mythical Pokémon being a subset of Legendary Pokémon. Yea that's my mean. I think I might have some misnomer. [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 11:26, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
For E9310103838, lookup at the thing about Lati@s, that should clarify that. [[User:TsukikoKoizumi|TsukikoKoizumi]] ([[User talk:TsukikoKoizumi|talk]]) 17:26, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

== Legendary as of Gen 7? ==

Considering the Rotom Pokédex lists Magearna and Marshadow as Legendary Pokémon, would this mean that Mythical Pokémon count as subcategories of Legendaries again? [[User:Nintendocan|Nintendocan]] ([[User talk:Nintendocan|talk]]) 19:27, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
:Since when does the Rotom Pokédex list them as Legendary? The quote that comes up when you register them explicitly calls them Mythical Pokémon. If you're referring to them sharing the same colored background, that seems to be simply designating tournament-legal versus tournament-illegal Pokemon. That's the hypothesis that makes the most sense, anyway, since all evidence points to the tapus, Type:Null/Silvally, and the UBs being either Legendary or Mythical. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 19:35, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

== New suggestion ==

Could Phione be considered mythical since we have evolutionary line legendaries.
--[[User:Pokemonfansuper|Pokemonfansuper]] ([[User talk:Pokemonfansuper|talk]]) 13:24, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
:It was created before the Cosmog line, so no. Also, Phione doesn't even evolve into Manaphy. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] ([[User talk:Ataro|talk]]) 13:30, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

== Zeraora reveal date ==

It's a small thing, but this page says Zeraora was revelaed on 8th April, while {{p|Zeraora}} page says 9th April. [https://nintendoeverything.com/zeraora-officially-revealed-as-a-new-pokemon-latest-pokemon-the-movie-everyones-story-trailer/ This page] is from the 8th as well. I am not sure which is correct and which country we're considering (Japan, I assume?) but these should be consistent. ~[[User:KingisNitro|'''KingisNitro''']] <small>([[User talk:KingisNitro|talk]])</small> 23:36, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

== Mew sentence needs to be split. ==

"Its success was mirrored in the west with the eventual release of Pokémon Red and Blue, making Mew a prominent character of the first generation, co-starring in the first animated movie, Mewtwo Strikes Back." should be "Its success was mirrored in the west with the eventual release of Pokémon Red and Blue. Mew was a prominent character of the first generation, co-starring in the first animated movie, Mewtwo Strikes Back."

The first movie was released in Japan two months before the first games came out in "the west".

[[User:Satorukun0530|Satorukun0530]] ([[User talk:Satorukun0530|talk]]) 07:05, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

== Ho-oh and Lugia ==

Weren't they considered Mythical Pokémon in FR, LG and Emerald? Shouldn't they be mentioned here? [[User:Golden Trainer|Golden Trainer]] ([[User talk:Golden Trainer|talk]]) 01:37, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

:I always have seen them called Legendary Pokemon. [[User:Lava Spire|Lava Spire]] ([[User talk:Lava Spire|talk]]) 01:41, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

::The games themselves treat them as mythical, since they're not required for completing the Pokédex for the Diploma. [[User:Golden Trainer|Golden Trainer]] ([[User talk:Golden Trainer|talk]]) 01:44, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

:True, but the problem is "mythical" and "legendary" aren't well defined and we always have to wait for official sources to name Pokemon with their title, and it just never happened with Ho-Oh and Lugia and the title "mythical".--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|<span style="color:#CC0000">Rocket</span> <span style="color:#666666">Grunt</span>]] ([[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|<span style="color:#CCCCCC">Report To Me</span>]])''' 12:15, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

== Deoxys ==
As Mythical Pokémon are classified by being unobtainable in-game without an event, shouldn't Deoxys be reclassified as a Legendary Pokémon and not a Mythical? If this is the case, then Deoxys is the only Mythical Pokémon to later be reclassified as a Legendary. --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 00:38, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
: Even if being "demoted to Legendary" was correct (I don't think it is), The Virtual Console version of Pokémon Crystal made Celebi available without an event as well. Does this mean that Celebi doesn't count as a Mythical? [[User:PDL|PDL]] ([[User talk:PDL|talk]]) 04:39, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
:: We do specify ''With few exceptions'' to be fair too, we don't choose these groups, through various medias and releases, it's TPCi and Nintendo that do it. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 05:42, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

==Still legendaries==
In this last years I saw a lot people saying mythicals and legendaries are completly different things now, despite we got a lot of sources in the past that still call the mythicals as legendaries, but people simply decided that they are different things despite literally not existing any official sources that state that, probably because someone thinked about a retcon I suppose.

In any case, in this last months we got the announcment of Pokémon LEGENDS: Arceus, and the title itself is pretty auto-explanatory, and then we got this:

https://preview.redd.it/8aym1p6u63h71.jpg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=607e22d016456c5e0075940e516f748486c7aa84

https://preview.redd.it/kam428cu63h71.jpg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8682ca4119dd74b40ba8fa4cb86219ab548f3d13

This is clear as the day that Arceus is refered as a legendary instead of a mythical. Not saying he is not a mythical, I'm saying mythicals are STILL legendaries, one thing don't exclude the others. Is like before the release of SM, a lot of people thinked that the UBs was a completly different things from Pokémon and in the end the UBs was just a "sub-group" of Pokémon.

So... wouldn't make more sense talk about the mythicals in the legendary page too instead that only here? If still was any doubt about mythical still being legendaries, now this don't exist anymore--[[User:Zarxiel94|Zarxiel94]] ([[User talk:Zarxiel94|talk]]) 07:23, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

:In Japanese, the Legendary and Mythical have always been separate groups. For instance, since Generation I, Mew is referred to (in Japanese) as a Mythical Pokémon (幻のポケモン) in the video games, the first movie, the manga Pokémon Adventures, the manga Pocket Monsters etc.
:The English version used to lump both groups together and translate them as "Legendary" before (so that would mean Mew and Mewtwo were both "Legendary" in the translation). But then Legendary / Mythical started to be treated separately in English as well. That is not really a retcon, it's just properly translating from Japanese (although "Illusory Pokémon" would be a closer translation).
:Thanks for these Pokémon Masters screenshots anyway. I also checked the Japanese text in the game, which also says it's about a Legendary Pokémon (伝説のポケモン) from Sinnoh that changes type. So looks like Arceus is really being called a Legendary for once at least. I think this actually looks like a mistake in the game text. This is also a spin-off game so it would probably not affect the [[canon]] as much as core series game. I don't think this is enough to do such a big change like treating Mythical as a subgroup of Legendary. That said, maybe the fact that Arceus was implied to be called a Legendary could be at least mentioned as a trivia point. --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 09:38, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
::With ''Pokémon Legends: Arceus'' already being announced at the time, I rather suspect that Masters wanted to make a nod or align with that upcoming game, whose name and trailer already suggest that Arceus will rather be considered a legendary Pokémon there, or at least a Pokémon of the legends. Mew was introduced as a mythical Pokémon in Masters.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:02, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
:::I think mythicals are just a sub-category of legendaries... there is literally no source that deny that, and exist a lot of sources that call mythicals as legendaries--[[User:Zarxiel94|Zarxiel94]] ([[User talk:Zarxiel94|talk]]) 21:07, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
::::Zarxiel94 - Are you talking about English or Japanese sources? Are there many Japanese sources using the word "伝説" (Legendary) for Mew, Celebi, Deoxys, etc.? The Pokémon franchise was created in Japan, so we are basically using the Japanese groupings: 伝説 (Legendary) and 幻 (Mythical). English has used the word "Legendary" for both groups together in the past, but it mostly stopped doing that anyway. --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 02:05, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

== Comprehensive list of still obtainable Mythical Pokemon ==

My list of obtainable Mythical Pokemon was removed because it's "unnecessary and info in the individual articles". I disagree with this sentiment as having all the information in one place would be much easier, more convenient, and more concise for readers. Also, much of the information I mentioned within my edit was not information already available on this wiki already, let alone the page it was on. I can understand if it would go at the bottom of the trivia or something, but I would just like to see if it can be re-added or moved somewhere else on the wiki. It's a tool I wish I had when I started Mythical hunting recently after getting back into Pokemon again for the first time in a while. [[User:FenomOO|FenomOO]] ([[User talk:FenomOO|talk]]) 09:30, 1 January 2022 (UTC)