View source for Talk:Multi-strike move

==Article creation==
Hi this is a page that will include the list of multi-hit moves and details on them, similar to [[one-hit knockout move]] [[User:Pokepranav|Pokepranav]] 02:30, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
:Dude, you can't just make a nearly empty page and expect everybody else to fill it in for you.  When you make a new page here, you gotta make it look good, add as much detail as you can, and categorize it.  Not use the talk page to tell everybody what it's gonna be like eventually.  And editing that same comment constantly.  <small>- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' </small> 02:33, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
::Would it be better if this was a category instead? Then Pages would automaticlly fill it's self up. Thoughts? [[User:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">--Pokemaster</span>]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">97</span>]] 02:38, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
:::Thanks for the help and sorry for making you mad, I'll start working on the category.Thanks Pokemaster97.(I can't believe I didn't think of that.[[User:Pokepranav|Pokepranav]] 02:42, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
::::There already ''is'' a category. You may have noticed that I initially redirected the article to it. I'll leave it alone for a little if someone can make this a proper article, comparable to the OHKO one. If it's just a list, then I'm going to redirect it to the category again. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:48, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
:::::I think I got it off to a decent start so far.  I'm working on adding more details now.  <small>- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' </small> 02:50, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
::::::That was fast. Thanks for taking interest in my idea, I'm new to Bulbapedia and I'm still getting used to editing these pages
:::::::Thought you might be when you moved it. Thanks for that MM. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:57, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
::::::::No problem.  <small>- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' </small> 03:17, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

==Move to Multi-hit move?==
Personally, I'm of the opinion that both this page and the category Swipe moves should be renamed to multi-hit moves. The name swipe seems a bit inaccurate, given that Fury Swipes is the only move that uses a swiping movement. Unless there's something else I'm missing? - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 21:42, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
:I only moved this to "Swipe move" to match the category. Not sure why the category is called what it is. <small>- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' </small> 02:50, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
::Agreed. Multi-hit moves is the best name for them. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 10:18, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

==Beat Up==
Is {{m|Beat Up}} a swipe move? It hits multiple times, and [http://veekun.com/dex/moves/search?multi_hit=y veekun] says it it's a multi-hit move. --[[User:Enervation|Enervation]] 02:22, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
* If it hits more than once, it's obviously a multi-hit move.  It just doesn't match any of the existing categories on the page. --''[[User:Stratelier|Stratelier]]'' 13:49, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Average vs. Effective power==
The use of "average" and "effective" power for {{m|Triple Kick}} is misleading, I'm going to swap them.  "Effective" should be the cumulative power if all hits of a move connect, with "average" taking the move's base accuracy into account (as this is the amount of damage you can expect to inflict {{tt|on average|statistical mean; total damage dividied by # uses}} in a real battle). --''[[User:Stratelier|Stratelier]]'' 13:50, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:Actually, I see no reason to put the max amount of damage (60) in the infobox at all. I don't know why I included it in the first place as it can just as easily be mentioned in the sentence that details how the damage is accumulated. Since Triple Kick takes accuracy/evasion into account to an extent, it's not the same as other multi-strike moves. How about we call its calculation Effective power, since 47.07 is '''effectively''' the average amount of damage, given that we've factored the 90% probabilities? Please reply your thoughts here and I'll do the edit if you agree. --<font face="Segoe UI"><span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em">[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|<font color="red">IWanna</font>]]BeThe[[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|<font color="white">VeryBest</font>]]</span></font> 20:25, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::It's been over a week. I'll go ahead and do it. --<font face="Segoe UI"><span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em">[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|<font color="red">IWanna</font>]]BeThe[[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|<font color="white">VeryBest</font>]]</span></font> 20:02, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

=={{m|King's Shield}} and {{m|Spiky Shield}}==
It needs to be determined whether the effects of these moves activate multiple times from a multi-strike move. --<font face="Segoe UI"><span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em">[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|<font color="red">The</font>]]Very[[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|<font color="white">Best</font>]]</span></font> 00:55, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
:Already did. They don't. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 03:12, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

==A few questions==
* Does {{m|Endure}} behave like Focus Band, Focus Sash, and Sturdy in Generations II-IV and V-VI?
* If the user of a MSM is burned mid-attack by Flame Body, are the remaining strikes weakened?
* If poisoned, paralyzed, or burned by Flame Body, Poison Point, Effect Spore, or Static, does {{a|Guts}} boost the remaining strikes?
** Similarly, if Zangoose uses Fury Swipes or Double Hit and is poisoned by Poison Point or Effect Spore, does {{a|Toxic Boost}} buff the remaining strikes?
* Does each strike have an independent chance of activating {{a|Cursed Body}}? Smogon says, "Cursed Body has a separate chance of activation on each hit of a contact multi-hit move, but will not stop any multi-hit move before it has been completed", but Bulbapedia says that even non-contact moves can activate Cursed Body.
* Does each strike of Pin Missile, Twineedle, and Beat Up activate {{a|Rattled}}?
* Does each strike of Water Shuriken activate {{a|Storm Drain}}, {{a|Water Absorb}}, and {{a|Dry Skin}}?
* Using {{a|Parental Bond}} and an Electric-type move, does each strike have an independent chance of activating {{a|Lightning Rod}}, {{a|Motor Drive}}, and {{a|Volt Absorb}}? --<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em">[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|<font color="red">The</font>]]Very[[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|<font color="white">Best</font>]]</span> 22:02, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
::Regarding the first question, Endure lasts for one entire turn, so regardless of whether it endures one hit or four hits, it will still have one HP left. Interestingly enough,{{tt|*|in Generation III at least}} multi-strike moves will hit only the amount needed to knock out a Pokémon. So, say one of those moves would have potentially KO'd a Pokémon, it would hit only once instead of repetitively saying that it endured the hit. The game probably treats the amount of hits as if the Pokémon that was hit were to faint. [[User:Ht14|<span style="color:#FF1111"><sup>'''''ht'''''</sup></span>]][[User talk:Ht14|<span style="color:#11BB11"><small>''14''</small></span>]] 01:08, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
:::I seem to remember hitting an Enduring Pokemon mutliple times at "1" HP in B/W... That should probably be checked if anyone was thinking of mentioning it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 01:22, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
::::Tiddywinks, yes, that is correct. As I mentioned, Endure, if successful, lasts for the entire turn. [[User:Ht14|<span style="color:#FF1111"><sup>'''''ht'''''</sup></span>]][[User talk:Ht14|<span style="color:#11BB11"><small>''14''</small></span>]] 02:54, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
:::::Each strike has an independent chance to trigger Cursed Body. Each hit of a multi-strike move will trigger Abilities like Rattled and Justified that trigger upon taking damage from a move of a specific type; Abilities that prevent damage, such as Storm Drain and Volt Absorb, will only trigger once if a multi-strike move is negated by them. In Gen VI at least, it looks like burn/Guts/Toxic Boost applies straight away, so all hits after that of a multi-hit move will be powered-up/down (this is what I expected, since Parental Bond Assurance's first hit counts for previously taking damage for its second hit). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 05:45, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

== Move effect simplification ==

I propose to tremendously simplify the individual moves' Effect sections by just referring readers here for all details. (I guess they're hard to update, and I believe all of them are already missing something somewhere.)

For example, I think {{m|Barrage}} should just read something like:
<blockquote>Barrage is a [[multi-strike move]] that hits the target 2-5 times per use, inflicting damage with each strike.

As with other multi-strike moves, the chance of hitting changes between generations:
* From [[Generation I]] to {{gen|IV}}, there is a 37.5% chance that it will hit 2 times, a 37.5% chance that it will hit 3 times, a 12.5% chance that it will hit 4 times, and a 12.5% chance that it will hit 5 times.
* From [[Generation V]] onward, there is a ~33.3% chance that it will hit 2 times, a ~33.3% chance it will hit 3 times, a ~16.7% chance it will hit 4 times, and a ~16.7% chance it will hit 5 times.

From Generation VI onward, Barrage has no effect on targets with {{a|Bulletproof}}.</blockquote>
I don't think the average powers that are currently present are necessary, but we could also include them if that's just my opinion. Some moves would have some additional contest information, Water Shuriken changes its category, and obviously Twineedle, Triple Kick and Beat Up have some personality, but I guess that's as special as it gets. Any opinion? [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 12:06, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
:I think that makes a lot of sense. Details inherent to being multi-strike moves can just be documented on this page. {{a|Parental Bond}} already does that (so that it has room to go into excessive detail about specific moves). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 09:08, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

== Multiscale? ==

Does Multiscale only halve damage from the first strike of a multi-strike move, or all strikes? [[User:Shawn|Shawn]] ([[User talk:Shawn|talk]]) 13:24, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it only affects the first hit. [[User:ThighFish|ThighFish]] ([[User talk:ThighFish|talk]]) 06:37, 4 December 2020 (UTC)ThighFish

== Interaction with "type-resist" berries ==

Very strange that these berries ([[Chilan Berry]] and all 17 variations of [[Chople Berry]]) have no official grouping name on Bulbapedia, but I'll call them type-resist berries here. 

Do multihit moves have their total or just first hit damage halved by such berries? I believe it is the latter, but am not confident enough to edit without further testing. I'm also not sure where in the article this should be added. - [[User:Swampboat|Swampboat]] ([[User talk:Swampboat|talk]]) 12:27, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

== Accuracy checks? ==

Is it known which gens have separate accuracy checks for each hit of multi-hit moves and which gens don't? [[User:ThighFish|ThighFish]] ([[User talk:ThighFish|talk]]) 17:01, 4 December 2020 (UTC)ThighFish
:Only Triple Kick (and now Triple Axel) has accuracy checks for each hit, which it has had since Gen II. Other multi-hit moves have only one accuracy check. --[[User:AmbientDinosaur|AmbientDinosaur]] ([[User talk:AmbientDinosaur|talk]]) 17:17, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

== Inconsistency in number of multi-strike hit probabilities ==

I have noticed that the probabilities for number of hits given for generation 5 onwards are different on this page, compared to individual move pages, such as double slap. I do not know which probabilities are the correct ones, but thought this should be brought up.
[[User:Qwertyuiop13|Qwertyuiop13]] ([[User talk:Qwertyuiop13|talk]]) 11:08, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
:It looks like the numbers of this page [[Special:Diff/3326350|were updated in February this year]] (by a game mechanics researcher, so I assume those numbers are accurate), but the individual move pages were not. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 09:05, 1 June 2021 (UTC)