Talk:Eternatus (Pokémon)

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Eternamax in Eternabeam

The article mentions that Eternatus changes into its Eternamax form when it uses Eternabeam... is this merely an aesthetic/animation thing or is it a legitimate form change? --celadonk (talk) 15:32, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

From what I have seen it is just like the case with Solagleo's and Lunala's from-like transformation as both can only assume the forms during an attack or traveling. Also its like the Case with Black Kyurem and White Kyurem, both are official from and form-like transformations. While Eternatus is turning back into its original power-up form, its not an offiical form changes Game Freak have not give that option in game, unless we get an event in the future that allows access to this form. In short, it is just an attack animation and an official form in Pokédex. But that's my opinion on the subject.--Jacob Kogan (talk) 15:57, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
Ok.... is anyone able to check inside the game or do some tests to find out what's happening? I think it would be useful to clarify once we know all the facts. --celadonk (talk) 17:01, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
All the footage I've seen so far suggests that its use of Eternamax form in the Eternabeam animation is purely aesthetic. While Eternamax is indeed an official form given that it has a Pokédex entry and different base stats, the BST combined with the circumstances in which it's encountered (a Max Raid Battle in all but name) make it clear that the form exists solely as a "boss" of sorts rather than something meant to be legitimately used by the player. --UB00 (talk) 20:42, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Eternatus is a Legendary

Why is there any debate about it being a Legendary? Alolan Ninetales (talk) 19:49, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Because there is no "proof" at the moment per the stats quo from what I get, we need an official source form Game Freak or Pokémon website. A similar happened with the Tapu and Silvally before in the past. When Eternatus is obviously a Legendary, the change won't happen until official confirmed, hence why there's a current debate at the moment.--Jacob Kogan (talk) 20:03, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
Since when does something with an effing BST of 1000+ need official confirmation that it's a Legendary?! Shiramu Kuromu (talk) 00:50, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, I think we should change it unless Nintendo/Game Freak confirms it's NOT a legendary. Alolan Ninetales (talk) 00:56, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
We're not going to call it a legendary until the games explicitly calls it a legendary. Regardless of the fact that everything points to it being a legendary. Unless the games call it a legendary, we're not calling it a legendary. Just wait. It'll be called a legendary in games eventually and we'll call it a legendary at that point. Have patience.--ForceFire 05:55, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
I agree. ----TotallyTob 08:05, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
That's ridiculous. How can the last Pokémon in the current National Dex not be a legendary? Name a single time that was the case. To say that it's not a legendary it's a far greater reach. Golden Trainer (talk) 13:04, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
Mew is a mythical. Just because we don't say that it's a legendary, doesn't mean we're implying that it's not a legendary. We can't say it's a legendary because the games hasn't called it a legendary yet. The game could easily call it a mythical.--ForceFire 15:07, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
So we're treating legendaries and mythicals as separate, and are waiting for confirmation on which one Eternatus is? Fair enough, but that still doesn't explain why we haven't put it in the Legendary Pokémon template[1] yet, as it covers both groups.
The reason I said that we're implying Eternatus is not a legendary is that the Legendary Pokémon article says the following: "In Generation VIII, two more Legendary Pokémon were introduced, the lowest amount since Generation VI." That outright says that Gen VIII has two legendaries, disqualifying Eternatus. Golden Trainer (talk) 15:55, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
Because it's neither been confirmed to be a mythical either. The legendary page says two because only two (well, five now) have actually been called "legendary" either by the games or Nintendo Direct. Eternatus will be called something in the future, but for now, we don't know because the game hasn't said what it is. So it gets left as ambiguous.--ForceFire 16:09, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
My point is that the template doesn't distinguish between legendaries and mythicals, it just lists both. It's also titled "Legendary and Mythical Pokémon". So shouldn't Eternatus be included already? It doesn't matter if it turns out to be legendary or mythical, either way it qualifies. Golden Trainer (talk) 16:26, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
As I said, it's not confirmed to be either of those things. The games doesn't say what it is. If the games doesn't say what it is, then it's neither a legendary or mythical for the time being. The expansions may even confirm it for us, so have patience.--ForceFire 16:45, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
The thing is it was specifically said in-game that the legend of the darkest day was caused by Eternatus/ Eternatus was the darkest day itself which in it self is a legend/myth... so basically Eternatus is a legendary pokemon. Also I don't think this must be said again but we have 2 online ranked competition live again and the rules specifically said no legends allowed and Eternatus is ban for the competition hence them saying it is a legendary.Badwolf1234 (talk) 01:23, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
Being able to describe something as "legendary", a simple adjective, is not the same thing as labeling it a Legendary Pokemon. Arcanine's species/category is literally "Legendary Pokemon" but that doesn't put it in the company of Zapdos, Mewtwo, etc.
Can you link to the rules for the competitions? We've accepted such clauses before, but the devil is in the details. Tiddlywinks (talk) 04:04, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
Here's one source, you got to give Serebii credit for this https://www.serebii.net/swordshield/onlinecompetitions/galarbeginnings.shtml--Jacob Kogan (talk) 04:09, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
Unlike past gen where we have global link for the specific rules of the ranked competition this gen the rules is merged in the y-com but here is the news post on the official site https://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-news/clash-with-gigantamax-pokemon-for-great-prizes-in-ranked-battles-january-season/ And here is serebii's page for ranked battle allowed pokemon https://serebii.net/swordshield/rankedbattle.shtml. Even the newcomer's competition which only allows gen 8 pokemon does not include Eternatus and the rules says special pokemon like zacian and zamazenta are not included.Badwolf1234 (talk) 21:19, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

(resetting indent)All I see is a few lists. From what I can tell, you're saying that Zacian and Zamazenta are Legendary and banned, and Eternatus is banned, so it must be Legendary too. But that logic would mean that Mew, who is also banned, "must" be Legendary.

In short, if all we have is a purely factual list of which Pokemon are banned, we can conclude nothing. Show me something (official) from the competition that actually mentions Legendary Pokemon in any way. Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:54, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

You do forgot that Mew is a "Mythical" a type of legendary pokemon. But sure we could wait for "official" confirmation. Badwolf1234 (talk) 11:57, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
Mythical and legendary are not the same thing, they are two separate groupings. So Mew is not a legendary, it's a mythical Pokemon.--ForceFire 12:42, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
There are things I want to say to you and other staff members but I’m not dumb enough to say them on this website. So instead I’m going to say that Eternatus is obviously a Legendary Pokémon and this is another situation where you guys will inevitably be proven wrong. How many times does this have to happen before you accept that things don’t need “official confirmation” when there’s enough evidence to prove that something is a fact?Flain (talk) 17:31, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
This is an encyclopedia, meant to catalog all official information about the franchise. That means there is no room for assuming things that have not been confirmed by official sources. If there has been no source placing Eternatus in the official category of "Legendary Pokémon", then we should not claim that it is. Circumstantial evidence doesn't matter, if it still requires a leap in logic then it can't be relied on. Waiting for official word before putting it on the wiki does not hurt anybody, being "proven wrong" doesn't mean anything, and I think a good number of us are expecting that Eternatus WILL be confirmed eventually and will not care that we had to wait. In contrast, there are certainly cases where people have made assumptions that turned out to be wrong when official information was finally released. So why not just wait? --Neumannz (talk) 21:30, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
That line of thinking is one of the reasons I don’t think highly of any of the staff members on this site at all (sorry but it’s true). So forgive me if I don’t trust your judgment. Flain (talk) 00:55, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
Newsflash. Everyone on staff thinks it's a legendary as well. But we're not going to say it's a legendary on the article because the games, anime, manga, TCG, figurines, Game Freak themselves have not said that it's a legendary. We need that official confirmation, because if we add it and Game Freak later says "lolno, it's an Ultra Beast", we'd be the fools for "assuming things".--ForceFire 04:53, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
Does anyone has the guidebook (both volumes)? Does it say anything? (both english and japanese guide) -Pokeant (talk) 15:55, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
I own both Guide Books, it does not mention Eternatus being a Legendary. So we just have to wait for proof from other official sources.--Jacob9594 (talk) 16:03, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

Pokemon HOME officially confirms Eternatus as a legendary pokemon.[2] Badwolf1234 (talk) 11:58, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

We know. The page has already been updated.--ForceFire 12:51, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Eternatus Eternamax Form

Hey can add Eternatus Eternamax game picture from Pokédex to main Eternatus because from what i have seen from Pokédex guide book, there may not be an official artwork for that form. So makes sense to add them in, same thing fro forms like Alcremie and Cramorant for example. I eellike that will save time and unless it shows up in future, might as add to main page of Eternatus, like with Cosplay Pikachu for example.--Jacob Kogan (talk) 04:03, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

The "Origin" section has tenuous claims

I understand that Eternatus is not 1:1 for any particular figure in Welsh or Anglo-Saxon mythology and is likely a mixture of several sources, but the Origin section here has taken that to an extreme by being far too broad and generous in its theories.

> Eternatus may be based on several accounts of antagonistic giants in mythology and literature, specially Ysbaddaden, the king of the giants that resides in a nigh unreachable castle.

This is a bizarre assertion, because Eternatus is a dragon, but the giants of Welsh and Anglo-Saxon myth are humanoid. The specific reference to Ysbaddaden only confuses things further, as Eternatus hardly "resides in a nigh unreachable castle", nor shares any other aspects of Ysbaddaden's depiction (who is so old and feeble he holds his eyelids open with a fork, and who gives Culhwch many impossible tasks to complete). As far as I can see, the only connection here is that both are physically large, and both are important (Ysabadden's title is "Chief of the Giants"), but that is hardly enough to make the prime inspiration.

> It may also be based on the monsters killed by the hero King Beowulf, in the epic poem Beowulf, consisting of two giants and a poisonous dragon.

This is a theory that only makes sense when presented in as vague terms as possible; it falls apart when considering Beowulf's actual foes beyond those descriptors. The giants mentioned are Grendel and his mother, who are generally depicted as beastly humanoids covered in thick hair/fur, and described as "a creature of darkness, exiled from happiness and accursed of God, the destroyer and devourer of our human kind". The dragon, meanwhile, does indeed have a poisonous bite… but it's much better known for being the first fire-breathing dragon in European myth. If anyone were to base a character off of Beowulf's dragon, it's the fire they would pick up on, not the totally-incidental poison. Again, these inspirations only make sense if you distill the creatures down to the vaguest and broadest terms and divorce them from their actual context, at which point a supposed origin becomes irrelevant.

I know these sections are speculative, but that doesn't mean that all speculation is equally valid and worth including. These supposed origins don't stand up to scrutiny and shouldn't be included. The Uther Pendragon one seems the most plausible to me, accounting for both its dragon design and extraterrestrial origin, and should be the lead sentence; the St George's Dragon also should not be discounted due to its explanation of the poison typing. But the rest? Maybe a line saying that Eternatus' sheer size was inspired by giants, but even that's pushing it. Charchetype (talk) 19:54, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

I am also having a bit of trouble seeing the similarity between Eternamax Eternatus and the Naga King. I don't think just having a coiled body with some powerful and significant entity (the core) sitting on top is enough to make a connection to a giant snake-deity serving as a living sofa for Vishnu. If anything, Eternatus seems closer to a Lovecraftian style eldritch abomination. --Adelon (talk) 20:21, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
> I definitely think Saint George's Dragon is the most likely candidate here. I'm absolutely convinced after I saw an old ceramic carving of Saint George and Saint Christopher standing together as dragon slayers, mirroring Zacian and Zamazenta's carving to a tee. There's a ton of similar pieces done of Saint George with Saint Theodore. PartyTom (talk) 03:01, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Wrong Image Being Linked for Eternamax Eternatus

The image should be File:890EMS-dot-png. Dorkfishie (talk) 16:14, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

No, it's the correct format. Just because the image hasn't been uploaded yet doesn't mean it's incorrect. The image will be uploaded once we get the artwork. And some red links are okay, especially for things that we'd actually want.--ForceFire 16:23, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Possible origin for Eternatus

Is it possible that Eternatus is based on radiation? It’s poison type, it emits massive amounts of energy but also causes destruction, Dynamax and Gigantamax forms could be seen as “mutants” created by the radiation, and its body resembles an x-ray scan. MrFeeds (talk) 17:06, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

I think that is a very reasonable assumption. You could go ahead and add that Pallukun (talk) 18:23, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

Eternatus Eternamax Artwork

So Pokemon Home has a great 3d Artwork of Eternamax Eternatus so should we add it in?--Jacob9594 (talk) 05:31, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

How does Home confirm its legendary status?

How does Home confirm its legendary status? ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 06:00, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

Because of the Legends of Galar Research Task as only Legendary Pokémon were required to complete it hence, the Legendary Status being officially confirmed. It first proof that identifies it as a Legendary Pokémon. Thought Force Fire could explain it better than I can.--Jacob9594 (talk) 06:04, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
Pretty much. It's grouped with Zacian and Zamazenta under Legends of Galar. It's not as explicit as we'd like, but it's good enough.--ForceFire 06:08, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

Eternatus being possibly being a third member of possible Legendary Trio with Zacian and Zamazenta?

So I have been thinking about the Legends of Galar part in Research Tasks on Pokémon Home. Does this count as trio or still a duo versus one other Legendary? I got this thought after seeing a video on Worst to best Legendary Trio. As they are the only they're three Legendary Pokémon in that spot at the time. Maybe their lore will get expanded in Expansion Pass or something? Just curious on thought regarding this? Plus typical each generation does a trio at least.--Jacob9594 (talk) 23:01, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

I'm neutral right now. It's worth mentioning that HOME refers to the three as "Legends of Galar," but we can't be sure whether that's any sort of trio moniker or just referring to the fact that they are all Legendary Pokemon. --celadonk (talk) 23:37, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
Usually trio members share a lot in common whether its similar abilities, design, stats, etc. I'm not sure it makes sense to consider them a Trio like Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina. The relationship between Eternatus and the two legendary wolves is more like the relationship between Rayquazza and Deoxys if you ask me. --Adelon (talk) 19:59, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
Aesthetics and stats aren't everything for this kind of scenario... look at Necrozma. I wouldn't say it's out of the question. --celadonk (talk) 22:36, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
Rayquaza is part of a trio though. And doesn't the game give backstory about Zamazenta and Zacian fending off Eternatus, which is similar to Necrozma. Feels like this is the first time in a long time the games actually fleshed out the connection between a trio, rather than leaving it vague until the next game where they flesh out the lore.--ForceFire 05:31, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
Should we start looking into changing the pages to go along with this logic? And if so, do we call them "Legends of Galar" like HOME does or do we name them in lieu of our other trios, like "Dynamax trio" or something like that?Brawlersinthezone (talk) 04:12, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Origin of Eternatus' name and traits.

Dragons are synonymous with Cymru (Wales, a country on Ynys Prydain, "the island of Great Britain", and one of the four countries of the United Kingdom of which the Galar region is based on). Cymru has a long history of native kings with the most prevalent being from the royal dynasty of Gwynedd. The founder of the dynasty of Gwynedd, Cunedda, was the son of Eternus, an obvious correlation to Eternatus. Furthermore, he was grandson of Padarn Beisrudd which translates in English to "Paternus the Scarlet Robe", which could hint to Eternatus' red features. Eternatus being the almighty power of Galar could be a hint to the native kings of Ynys Prydain/Great Britain who ruled the land before the Anglo-Saxon/English invaders arrived. Also relating to the prophecy of Galar, the Welsh have a history of prophesising the return of Y Mab Darogan, or "The Destined/Prophesised Son". With Eternatus being surrounded by the fate of Galar, the correlation between it and Welsh history is undeniable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunedda#Allt_Cunedda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padarn_Beisrudd --Tslabc (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Inconsistencies with image usage

The main infobox and evolution section of Eternatus's page use the same artwork, but the Forms section doesn't use the same artwork. Is there any reason for this, or should this be remedied? - unsigned comment from Sunfishy (talkcontribs)

Its because Pokemon Home has the offical image of Eternamax Eternatus hence why it looks different. No need to change it. Its the closest thing we have to an official image of that form.--Jacob9594 (talk) 16:59, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
The form evobox also uses the HOME artwork of normal Eternatus for consistency with the HOME artwork of Eternamax Eternatus.--ForceFire 17:22, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
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