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Talk:Elite Four: Difference between revisions
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==Sprites== | |||
Where are the sprites of Will and Karen from? Rahin 19:00, 2 October 2007 (UTC) | Where are the sprites of Will and Karen from? Rahin 19:00, 2 October 2007 (UTC) | ||
:Probably Pie. [[User:TinaTheKirlia|<span style="color:#E75480;">Tina</span>]][[User talk:TinaTheKirlia|<span style="color:#E75480;">The</span>]][[Kirlia (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#E75480;">Kirlia</span>]] ♥ | :Probably Pie. [[User:TinaTheKirlia|<span style="color:#E75480;">Tina</span>]][[User talk:TinaTheKirlia|<span style="color:#E75480;">The</span>]][[Kirlia (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#E75480;">Kirlia</span>]] ♥ 01:38, 1 October 2007 (UTC) | ||
::No, they're from Exotorchic (I apologize if I misspelled that). --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|<span style="color: blue">Shiny Noctowl</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|<span style="color: red">Talk</span>]]|[[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|<span style="color: brown">Contribs</span>]]</sup> | ::No, they're from Exotorchic (I apologize if I misspelled that). --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|<span style="color: blue">Shiny Noctowl</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Shiny Noctowl|<span style="color: red">Talk</span>]]|[[Special:Contributions/Shiny Noctowl|<span style="color: brown">Contribs</span>]]</sup> 01:42, 1 October 2007 (UTC) | ||
:::Ah. ^^; [[User:TinaTheKirlia|<span style="color:#E75480;">Tina</span>]][[User talk:TinaTheKirlia|<span style="color:#E75480;">The</span>]][[Kirlia (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#E75480;">Kirlia</span>]] ♥ | :::Ah. ^^; [[User:TinaTheKirlia|<span style="color:#E75480;">Tina</span>]][[User talk:TinaTheKirlia|<span style="color:#E75480;">The</span>]][[Kirlia (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#E75480;">Kirlia</span>]] ♥ 01:44, 1 October 2007 (UTC) | ||
::::But aren't they fake? Rahin 19:00, 2 October 2007 (UTC) | ::::But aren't they fake? Rahin 19:00, 2 October 2007 (UTC) | ||
::::::Better than the older G/S sprites, I think. Sure it's fake, but it blends in better with the two FR/LG sprites. Besides, the older G/S ones are a little... low on the colors. [[User:TinaTheKirlia|<span style="color:#E75480;">Tina</span>]][[User talk:TinaTheKirlia|<span style="color:#E75480;">The</span>]][[Kirlia (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#E75480;">Kirlia</span>]] ♥ | ::::::Better than the older G/S sprites, I think. Sure it's fake, but it blends in better with the two FR/LG sprites. Besides, the older G/S ones are a little... low on the colors. [[User:TinaTheKirlia|<span style="color:#E75480;">Tina</span>]][[User talk:TinaTheKirlia|<span style="color:#E75480;">The</span>]][[Kirlia (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#E75480;">Kirlia</span>]] ♥ 20:33, 2 October 2007 (UTC) | ||
:::::::That's true [[User:Yinyang1195|Rahin]]<sup>[[User talk:Yinyang1195|Talk]]</sup> 21:14, 3 October 2007 (UTC) | :::::::That's true [[User:Yinyang1195|Rahin]]<sup>[[User talk:Yinyang1195|Talk]]</sup> 21:14, 3 October 2007 (UTC) | ||
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:I don't see why we're using the FR/LG sprites (and some fan-made ones as well) in the GSC section when we use the game-specific sprites in ''every other trainer class''. [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 04:31, 20 March 2008 (UTC) | :I don't see why we're using the FR/LG sprites (and some fan-made ones as well) in the GSC section when we use the game-specific sprites in ''every other trainer class''. [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 04:31, 20 March 2008 (UTC) | ||
==Type relationships== | |||
Dark - Ghost - Ice - Dragon = Dark beats Ghost, Ghost doesn't beat any type here or is resistant to any, Ice beats Dragon, Dragon does not have a type advantage | Dark - Ghost - Ice - Dragon = Dark beats Ghost, Ghost doesn't beat any type here or is resistant to any, Ice beats Dragon, Dragon does not have a type advantage | ||
Bug - Ground - Fire - Psychic = Bug beats Psychic, Ground beats Fire, Fire beats Bug, Psychic has no advantage. | Bug - Ground - Fire - Psychic = Bug beats Psychic, Ground beats Fire, Fire beats Bug, Psychic has no advantage. | ||
So technically, if Generation III has a missing link (Ghost and Ice), and considering Generation IV does not have a consistent relationship (i.e. the type before beats the previous or the type after beats next type) and also has a missing link (Psychic)then shouldn't both Generations' Elite Fours' types be considered to have a relationship? They're both pretty loose relationships. | So technically, if Generation III has a missing link (Ghost and Ice), and considering Generation IV does not have a consistent relationship (i.e. the type before beats the previous or the type after beats next type) and also has a missing link (Psychic)then shouldn't both Generations' Elite Fours' types be considered to have a relationship? They're both pretty loose relationships. {{unsigned|Evvy}} | ||
== Needs to be less ambiguous == | == Needs to be less ambiguous == | ||
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Notice the inconsistancy here? Either Steven should be listed as Various, or Alder should be listed as Bug.[[User:Raikaria|Raikaria]] 09:01, 14 April 2011 (UTC) | Notice the inconsistancy here? Either Steven should be listed as Various, or Alder should be listed as Bug.[[User:Raikaria|Raikaria]] 09:01, 14 April 2011 (UTC) | ||
:Steven specializing in Steel-type Pokémon is openly stated (for example, see his Trainer's Eyes or Match Call). Alder is never stated to specialize in Bug-type Pokémon. Also, not that it really affects anything, but as a tag partner Steven only uses Steel-type Pokémon. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 10:37, 14 April 2011 (UTC) | |||
== Unova Elite Four order == | |||
The current ordering we have appears to be from left to right. But it is unofficial, and the closest thing to an official ordering is the order described on the statue at the Pokemon League (which goes Shauntal, Marshall, Grimsley, then Caitlin. Shouldnt this one be used? <small><span style="color:white; background-color:#007FFF">'''X'''</span>[[User:Vuvuzela2010|<span style="color:#007FFF; background-color:white">'''Vuvuzela2010''']]</span><span style="color:white; background-color:#007FFF">'''X'''</span></small> 17:09, 14 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:Yeah, I'd follow the order listed on the statue. [[User:Han Ji-Wan|Han Ji-Wan]] 17:12, 14 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::This elite four has no particular order so why does it matter. Besides I think it's listed in this order because the official game guide lists the elite four in that order (Shantal, Grimsley, Caitlin, and Marshall). So I think the way it is is fine. [[User:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">--Pokemaster</span>]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">97</span>]] 17:53, 14 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
:::Completely in favour of this. Also, [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Elite_Four&diff=1214297&oldid=1212787 apparently] that is the order they are in internally as well. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 11:38, 15 August 2011 (UTC) | |||
::::Bringing this up again, I've changed this page, but I'll need someone edit the Unova E4 template (its protected). <small><small>[[User:Vuvuzela2010|<span style="color:black; background-color:yellow">'''Vuvuzela2010''']]</span></small></small>[[Pikachu (Pokémon)|<span style="color:black; background-color:yellow">'''⚡''']]</span> 17:08, 9 October 2011 (UTC) | |||
== Alder == | |||
I think that Alder's type should be '''Bug and Various''' Because he has three Bug-type Pokémon, we can deduce it as a preference. | |||
[[User:Igor Castro Chucre]] | |||
:See [[#Inconsistancy Between Steven and Alder|two sections above]]. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 14:12, 3 October 2011 (UTC) | |||
== Champions are Elite Four members? == | |||
"''The Elite Four (Japanese: 四天王 Four Heavenly Kings) are four Pokémon Trainers who are regarded as the toughest in their regional Pokémon League,...''" | |||
Then why are the Champions included here? They're not part of the Elite Four nor are they members. We should say that Elite Four members must be defeated before facing the Pokemon League champion of each region. They we could put the Pokemon that they used on the [[Pokémon Champion]] article.[[User:Blueknightex|Blueknightex]] 08:15, 2 May 2012 (UTC) | |||
They may not be Elite Four per say, but they do head the Pokemon League and are battled directly after the Elite Four, so they are pretty much Elite Four in everything but name. Besides people are going to go to the Elite Four page and expect to be able to see each league's Champion. Trying to change this now on a technicality seems foolish and unnecessary. | |||
[[User:CoolDudeAl|CoolDudeAl]] 22:51, 4 May 2012 (UTC) | |||
:How do they head the Pokemon League? Is it said in the Manga or anime that they head them? | |||
: ''"Besides people are going to go to the Elite Four page and expect to be able to see each league's Champion"'' | |||
:- But isn't this site an encyclopedia? Not a strategy guide or anything? So who cares what people want to see. The information listed should at least be accurate. Its not foolish and unnecessary when this site should be aiming to be more resourceful as an online encyclopedia. [[User:Blueknightex|Blueknightex]] 00:43, 6 May 2012 (UTC) | |||
I see that the other editors have finally made changes on this page. Thank you :) [[User:Blueknightex|Blueknightex]] 00:49, 6 May 2012 (UTC) | |||
If you think people come here to seek encyclopedic knowledge on the subject of Pokemon, your sadly mistaken. I've yet to see anyone write a dissertation on Pokemon to earn a masters or doctoral degree. People come here because they like Pokemon and they are seeking information to help them with the games. Why do you think we list all the Pokemon's moves and what level they learn them. That information would be considered too detailed, even for a specialized encyclopedia. It is done because it is useful to people who are trying to get help with the game. So in a way, yes, this site should function as a strategy guide. Here's an idea that makes everybody happy, why don't we just combine the Elite Four and Champion pages, they make more sense together than apart anyway. | |||
[[User:CoolDudeAl|CoolDudeAl]] 16:17, 6 May 2012 (UTC) | |||
:Regardless of your false assumptions of why people come to Bulbapedia, it is an encyclopedia and should be treated as such. Yes, many people do use Bulbapedia as a game guide (I have myself), but that is not to say it is the only use. {{cat|Walkthroughs|Here is where we keep the strategy guides}}. Not only that, but this page is not supposed to be a game guide at all; all info except what Pokémon they own is not on this page, and is instead on the article for the games' Pokémon League building. If we were purely a game guide, why would we even bother putting up anime and manga information? Claiming that we go into too much detail is rediculous; an encyclopedia, especially a non-paper one which can afford to be, should be as comprehensive as possible, and Bulbapedia's existance and level of detail proves that there are encyclopedias with information that detailed. You seem to think encyclopedias have a direct connection to Masters' Degrees and Doctorates, but let me provide you with its definition: "A comprehensive reference work with articles on a range of subjects." This is no way implies any link to such degrees. And no, putting Champion and Elite Four together would not make sense, because they are two very separate classes. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 14:07, 11 May 2012 (UTC) | |||
== Champion/Elite Four thoughts == | |||
Champions may not technically be Elite Four members, but should still be one the page as they are battled directly after the Elite Four and are an Elite Four Member in everything but name. Lance even moved up from the final Elite Four member to Champion from Red/Blue to Gold/Silver. Thus, they should be on the page. | |||
[[User:CoolDudeAl|CoolDudeAl]] 23:04, 4 May 2012 (UTC) | |||
:I beg to differ. The Champion has been isolated from the Elite Four in the games so we should treat it as such. This statement is supported from a quote by [[Lucian]] ''Congratulations. You have beaten the Elite Four.''. Several other final Elite Four members have said quotes along those lines as well. Just because the champion is battled directly after, it does not mean it should be included here. That's what the [[Champion]] page is for. [[User:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">--Pokemaster</span>]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">97</span>]] 23:35, 4 May 2012 (UTC) | |||
::Wallace also moved from Gym Leader to Champion. [[User:Duke R|'''<font color="#444" face="Lucida Sans Unicode">|) u |( e</font>''']] [[User talk:Duke R|'''<font color="#b00" face="Verdana">®</font>''']] 03:11, 5 May 2012 (UTC) | |||
== Too much info on this page? == | |||
Now that we're talking about this being an encyclopedia and not a game guide and all (see the last comment [[Talk:Elite_Four#Champions_are_Elite_Four_members.3F|two sections above]])... Don't you think we shouldn't list each individual member's team? Their Pokémon don't give any info on what "Elite Four" is or who is a member, unlike their name, images and specialty type. It is true that other trainer class pages show each "member"'s team but that is okay given that each, say, Hiker, doesn't have his own page, unlike each Elite Four member. My point is, given that too much info clutters the page, we should give the basics (since the details ''are'' present, in each member's page) only, which IMO include name, sprite, and specialty type, for each Elite Four member, maybe in a stylized table similar to the current League templates (excluding the Champion, of course). What do you think? '''[[User:Memo326|<span style="color:#151B8D;">Memo</span>]]'''<i>[[User talk:Memo326|<sup><span style="color:#8D38C9;">326</span></sup>]]</i> 00:20, 14 May 2012 (UTC) | |||
:IMO, it's fine. It just shows what Pokémon they use (the MS sprites) not what level/type they are and their movesets. So I think its fine the way it is.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#424B50">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#848A8D">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#E3CED0">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EDDFE0">ire</span>]] 03:37, 14 May 2012 (UTC) | |||
::Actually, putting their teams on this page keeps it in line with {{tc|Hiker}}. Because this page is for the Trainer class Elite Four, like how Hiker is a page for the Trainer class Hiker, there should be a list of teams on it. Hiker does the exact same thing, with the exact same level of detail. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 08:16, 16 May 2012 (UTC) | |||
== VS Sprites == | |||
Should we remove the VS Sprites and just use the regular battle sprites? It looks weird having Kanto & Hoenn with regular battle sprites and Johto, Sinnoh & Unova with VS Sprites. Sure RS Remakes will probably give the Hoenn Elite Four VS Sprites, but the Kanto Elite Four would still have battle sprites. [[User:Torpoleon|Torpoleon]] ([[User talk:Torpoleon|talk]]) 22:04, 18 July 2012 (UTC) | |||
* This is the exact same discussion I started on the Gym Leader page. Maybe you should read that duscission first before starting one again. It's called 'Why VS sprites?'. [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 19:18, 19 July 2012 (UTC) | |||
::The difference is that in this case we had 40% of battle sprites and 60% VS, not only 1 region. And the GL page looks good with the Gen V sprites of Hoenn. Everything is fine. [[User:Duke R|'''<font color="#444" face="Lucida Sans Unicode">|) u |( e</font>''']] [[User talk:Duke R|'''<font color="#b00" face="Verdana">®</font>''']] 19:27, 19 July 2012 (UTC) | |||
:::Great, but could somebody replace Lucian's sprite? It is his DP sprite, so it has too short hair. Maybe a motionless Pt sprite can be used? [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 19:34, 19 July 2012 (UTC) | |||
:::So, should we also update the pages on the regions with the battle sprites instead of VS Sprites (at least for Kanto and the time being, Hoenn)? Each of the 5 pages on the 5 regions shows the Gym Leaders, E4 & Champion, so maybe they should see this change. [[User:Torpoleon|Torpoleon]] ([[User talk:Torpoleon|talk]]) 22:46, 19 July 2012 (UTC) | |||
== Names of Pokemon Leagues in Sinnoh and Unova == | |||
Would the names for the sinnoh and Unova Pokemon Leagues be the same as in the anime, so the: | |||
* [[Lily of the Valley Conference]]; | |||
* and [[Vertress Conference]] respectivly.--[[User:Ditto51|<span style="color:#00FF00">Tom</span>]] ([[User_Talk:Ditto51|<span style="color:#FF0000">My</span> <span style="color:#0000FF">Talk</span> <span style="color:#FFFF00">Page</span>]]) 20:33, 29 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
== I thought Agatha used pioson Pokémon == | |||
I saw the [[type]] of Pokémon [[Agatha]] used was [[Ghost (type)|ghost]] on this page, but she uses all [[Poison (type)|poison]] type Pokémon (with the exception of [[misdreavus]]). So I wish this could be changed to [[poison (type)|poison]] instead, but if she said she used [[ghost]] then it should stay the same. Agatha uses duel [[ghost (type)|ghost]]/[[poison (type)|poison]] so maybe that is why she may say so or why it says so here? --[[User:Ethan7|Ethan7]] ([[User talk:Ethan7|talk]]) 16:13, 28 November 2013 (UTC) | |||
:Uhm.... it has always been Agatha's official type. That she uses Arbok and Golbat is because of the limited availability of Ghost Pokémon in Gen I (and this carried over in Gen III, although they added Misdreavus in her rematch). Some Elite Four members use Pokémon not of their official type, as Bruno uses Onix and Lance uses Charizard, Aerodactyl and Gyarados. <span style="font-family:Arial Black"><span style="color:Red">☼ Blazing</span>[[User talk:Blazingfist|<span style="color:red">Fist ☼</span>]]</span> 16:17, 28 November 2013 (UTC) | |||
:Yes, but [[Gengar]] and [[Haunter]] are also [[Poison (type)|poison types]].--[[User:Ethan7|Ethan7]] ([[User talk:Ethan7|talk]]) 21:14, 29 November 2013 (UTC) | |||
::The point is that her official type is the Ghost type regardless of the amount of Poison types she uses. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 21:17, 29 November 2013 (UTC) | |||
:::Indeed, and if you need proof, here's a Fame Checker quote directly taken from FireRed/Leaf Green: ''"Agatha's Ghost-type Pokémon are horrifically terrifying in toughness."'' <span style="font-family:Arial Black"><span style="color:Red">☼ Blazing</span>[[User talk:Blazingfist|<span style="color:red">Fist ☼</span>]]</span> 21:21, 29 November 2013 (UTC) | |||
: That what I was wondering. if she said she used ghost Pokémon, then she it should say so on the page.--[[User:Ethan7|Ethan7]] ([[User talk:Ethan7|talk]]) 21:24, 29 November 2013 (UTC) | |||
== Removing my posts == | |||
'''Who''' keeps removing my posts? Ash met Diantha in episode 28 of the XY series. It has aired in the US. I mean, what? Does Ash have to have battled an Elite Four member for them to be listed? If that's the case (and if so, that's disturbing), then Bruno, Lance, Lucian, Aaron, and Caitlin need to be removed from that list. Ash has only battled (and lost) against Agatha, Lorelei/Prima, Drake, Flint. Sure, he defeated Koga, but Koga was a gym leader at the time, not an Elite Four member. So in all sincerity: who keeps removing my posts and why?! [[User:WATERWARRIOR67|<span style="color: #000080">WATER</span>]][[User talk:WATERWARRIOR67|<span style="color: #4cbb17">Warrior</span>]]<span style="color: #000080">6</span><span style="color: #4cbb17">7</span> 01:50, 15 October 2015 (UTC) | |||
:Diantha is a Champion, not an Elite Four member, as I stated in the edit summary. Lance is included because he was both, but Steven, Cynthia, Alder/Iris are all not listed for the same reason. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:22, 15 October 2015 (UTC) | |||
== Can I please have a 3rd opinion on Agatha's all Poison team for trivia? == | |||
Note: I'm not trying to start a fight, I just want a 3rd vote to break the tie. That is all. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 17:51, 5 March 2016 (UTC) | |||
:It's really not necessary, and anyways, the trivia is already on Agatha's page. --[[User:Carmenstar97|<span style="color:#95EB5C">Carmen<small>★</small></span>]] <small>''[[User talk:Carmenstar97|<span style="color:#FEBEE8">(Talk |</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Carmenstar97|<span style="color:#A6DAFC">contribs)</span>]]''</small> 17:57, 5 March 2016 (UTC) | |||