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Talk:Cilan's Pansage: Difference between revisions
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== Anime Gender == | == Anime Gender == | ||
When exactly was Pansage confirmed male? I've watched every BW episode just to make sure, but I don't remember anything using Attract on it or anyone referring to it as a "he" or "him" even in the dub. [[User:GamerGeek|<span style="color:blue">Gamer</span>]][[User talk:GamerGeek|<span style="color:gold">Geek</span>]] | When exactly was Pansage confirmed male? I've watched every BW episode just to make sure, but I don't remember anything using Attract on it or anyone referring to it as a "he" or "him" even in the dub. [[User:GamerGeek|<span style="color:blue">Gamer</span>]][[User talk:GamerGeek|<span style="color:gold">Geek</span>]] 00:51, 7 November 2012 (UTC) | ||
:I believe we decided that the event anime Pokémon count as reliable sources for information. <sup>[[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup>[[User:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">Jo the Marten</span>]]<sup>[[Flygon (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup> [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">ಠ_ಠ</span>]][[Cilan (anime)|<span style="color:#90C870;">♥</span>]] 00:59, 7 November 2012 (UTC) | :I believe we decided that the event anime Pokémon count as reliable sources for information. <sup>[[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup>[[User:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">Jo the Marten</span>]]<sup>[[Flygon (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup> [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">ಠ_ಠ</span>]][[Cilan (anime)|<span style="color:#90C870;">♥</span>]] 00:59, 7 November 2012 (UTC) | ||
::I'm not so sure; even if the event Pansage is always male, I don't think it necessarily applies to the anime as well, particularly since event Pokemon are rarely ever identical to their anime counterparts (such as the various legendaries I got from Toys R'Us). | ::I'm not so sure; even if the event Pansage is always male, I don't think it necessarily applies to the anime as well, particularly since event Pokemon are rarely ever identical to their anime counterparts (such as the various legendaries I got from Toys R'Us). | ||
::Personally, I'd suggest changing Pansage's gender to Unknown (confirmed male in the games) or something to that effect until there's actual, 100% concrete proof of it in the anime itself, just to be on the safe side. I suppose it '''could''' be left as-is, but you never know, especially since the anime should've confirmed it by now, but has somehow managed to avoid it. [[User:GamerGeek|<span style="color:blue">Gamer</span>]][[User talk:GamerGeek|<span style="color:gold">Geek</span>]] | ::Personally, I'd suggest changing Pansage's gender to Unknown (confirmed male in the games) or something to that effect until there's actual, 100% concrete proof of it in the anime itself, just to be on the safe side. I suppose it '''could''' be left as-is, but you never know, especially since the anime should've confirmed it by now, but has somehow managed to avoid it. [[User:GamerGeek|<span style="color:blue">Gamer</span>]][[User talk:GamerGeek|<span style="color:gold">Geek</span>]] 01:32, 7 November 2012 (UTC) | ||
:::I just checked the history. KG put it as male because of the event, and in BW009, Iris calls Pansage and Cilan "gentlemen" (it might just be in the original. I haven't watched the dub in a while.) <sup>[[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup>[[User:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">Jo the Marten</span>]]<sup>[[Flygon (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup> [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">ಠ_ಠ</span>]][[Cilan (anime)|<span style="color:#90C870;">♥</span>]] 01:40, 7 November 2012 (UTC) | :::I just checked the history. KG put it as male because of the event, and in BW009, Iris calls Pansage and Cilan "gentlemen" (it might just be in the original. I haven't watched the dub in a while.) <sup>[[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup>[[User:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">Jo the Marten</span>]]<sup>[[Flygon (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup> [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">ಠ_ಠ</span>]][[Cilan (anime)|<span style="color:#90C870;">♥</span>]] 01:40, 7 November 2012 (UTC) | ||
:::: They also mention 'having to pretend Pansage is a girl' in BW098 [[User:05308|<font color="blue">Diamond</font>]] [[Lanturn (Pokémon)|<font color="yellow">Lanturn</font>]] [[User talk:05308|<font color="red">CodeName: 05308</font>]] 02:46, 7 November 2012 (UTC) | :::: They also mention 'having to pretend Pansage is a girl' in BW098 [[User:05308|<font color="blue">Diamond</font>]] [[Lanturn (Pokémon)|<font color="yellow">Lanturn</font>]] [[User talk:05308|<font color="red">CodeName: 05308</font>]] 02:46, 7 November 2012 (UTC) | ||
:::::[http://www.dailymotion.com/PEOSeason14#video=xtdq6f The reference is also in the dub], and I was keeping that in mind, but I'm still a bit dubious, because I was thinking that it's just an umbrella term/expression. Iris only referred to Cilan and Pansage as "gentlemen" since it would be pretty redundant to say "lady(ies) and gentleman(men)" unless when addressing a large group of people (kinda like in Spanish, where the plural masculine pronoun is always used when there is at least one male within a group of people, regardless of how many females there are, if any). | :::::[http://www.dailymotion.com/PEOSeason14#video=xtdq6f The reference is also in the dub], and I was keeping that in mind, but I'm still a bit dubious, because I was thinking that it's just an umbrella term/expression. Iris only referred to Cilan and Pansage as "gentlemen" since it would be pretty redundant to say "lady(ies) and gentleman(men)" unless when addressing a large group of people (kinda like in Spanish, where the plural masculine pronoun is always used when there is at least one male within a group of people, regardless of how many females there are, if any). | ||
:::::As for the original (of that episode as well as BW098), I can't really say anything about that, because I don't understand a single word in Japanese, and fansubs are rarely 100% accurate. [[User:GamerGeek|<span style="color:blue">Gamer</span>]][[User talk:GamerGeek|<span style="color:gold">Geek</span>]] | :::::As for the original (of that episode as well as BW098), I can't really say anything about that, because I don't understand a single word in Japanese, and fansubs are rarely 100% accurate. [[User:GamerGeek|<span style="color:blue">Gamer</span>]][[User talk:GamerGeek|<span style="color:gold">Geek</span>]] 05:07, 7 November 2012 (UTC) | ||
:Ok, just looked over a few other things, and here's a better explanation: Pachirisu's central head stripe appears to be of the male length, yet Dawn regularly dresses it in cheerleader outfits. Unlike Pikachu's (among the other male Pokémon) clearly expressed dislike of wearing maid outfits in the DP Miltank episode, Pachirisu didn't appear to have a problem with "crossdressing." To top it off, Pachirisu was never referred to by a certain gender (to the best of my knowledge at least). That pretty much debunks the point made by BW098. | :Ok, just looked over a few other things, and here's a better explanation: Pachirisu's central head stripe appears to be of the male length, yet Dawn regularly dresses it in cheerleader outfits. Unlike Pikachu's (among the other male Pokémon) clearly expressed dislike of wearing maid outfits in the DP Miltank episode, Pachirisu didn't appear to have a problem with "crossdressing." To top it off, Pachirisu was never referred to by a certain gender (to the best of my knowledge at least). That pretty much debunks the point made by BW098. | ||
:In a more similar scenario, Brock's Onix/Steelix is always male in the games, and much like Pikachu and Meowth, it's referred to as male on multiple occasions in the anime (at least in the dub; again, I can't say anything about the original). Pansage was identified as male only once (which is BW009, as noted above). | :In a more similar scenario, Brock's Onix/Steelix is always male in the games, and much like Pikachu and Meowth, it's referred to as male on multiple occasions in the anime (at least in the dub; again, I can't say anything about the original). Pansage was identified as male only once (which is BW009, as noted above). | ||
:In short, while there is evidence that points to it, there's no real 100% proof which confirms that Pansage is male in the anime. Compared to a majority of the other Pokémon owned by main characters, I don't see why Pansage should be treated differently just because of some random one-time event (which is really outdated by now btw). So unless there's stronger evidence or someone comes up with a good argument(s) that Pansage is male, I suggest changing it to Unknown (confirmed male in the games), and if no case is made sooner or later, I'll change it myself. [[User:GamerGeek|<span style="color:blue">Gamer</span>]][[User talk:GamerGeek|<span style="color:gold">Geek</span>]] | :In short, while there is evidence that points to it, there's no real 100% proof which confirms that Pansage is male in the anime. Compared to a majority of the other Pokémon owned by main characters, I don't see why Pansage should be treated differently just because of some random one-time event (which is really outdated by now btw). So unless there's stronger evidence or someone comes up with a good argument(s) that Pansage is male, I suggest changing it to Unknown (confirmed male in the games), and if no case is made sooner or later, I'll change it myself. [[User:GamerGeek|<span style="color:blue">Gamer</span>]][[User talk:GamerGeek|<span style="color:gold">Geek</span>]] 01:19, 9 November 2012 (UTC) | ||
::Iris had to made him appear like a girl in BW098. If Pansage was female, she wouldn't have bothered sticking a bow on him. Just like they stuck the heart shape on Pikachu's tail Iris and Ash didn't do something like that to Emolga and Snivy who are confirmed female Pokémon. You can't compare it to Dawn's cheerleader outfits because she did it to all her Pokémon regardless of gender. The rest of the evidence is also pretty solid if you ask me. --[[Tracey Sketchit|<span style="color:#33CC66;">'''ケンジ'''</span>]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#6600CC;">'''の'''</span>]][[User:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#FF00CC;">'''ガール'''</span>]] 08:54, 9 November 2012 (UTC) | ::Iris had to made him appear like a girl in BW098. If Pansage was female, she wouldn't have bothered sticking a bow on him. Just like they stuck the heart shape on Pikachu's tail Iris and Ash didn't do something like that to Emolga and Snivy who are confirmed female Pokémon. You can't compare it to Dawn's cheerleader outfits because she did it to all her Pokémon regardless of gender. The rest of the evidence is also pretty solid if you ask me. --[[Tracey Sketchit|<span style="color:#33CC66;">'''ケンジ'''</span>]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#6600CC;">'''の'''</span>]][[User:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#FF00CC;">'''ガール'''</span>]] 08:54, 9 November 2012 (UTC) | ||
:::Ok, so maybe Dawn's cheerleader outfits weren't the best example (it was the only major one I could think of), but that wasn't the point. You also can't compare Iris's putting a bow onto Pansage's head to her sticking a heart on Pikachu's tail, because the tail is actually a clear indication of a Pikachu's gender. Pansage don't have any gender differences, so the bow's pretty irrelevant. Unlike Pikachu's tail, they could've easily left Pansage alone like Snivy and Emolga, and still convince everyone else that it's female. After all, Iris could've put the bow on Pansage for no special reason (such as her simply liking it, for example). | :::Ok, so maybe Dawn's cheerleader outfits weren't the best example (it was the only major one I could think of), but that wasn't the point. You also can't compare Iris's putting a bow onto Pansage's head to her sticking a heart on Pikachu's tail, because the tail is actually a clear indication of a Pikachu's gender. Pansage don't have any gender differences, so the bow's pretty irrelevant. Unlike Pikachu's tail, they could've easily left Pansage alone like Snivy and Emolga, and still convince everyone else that it's female. After all, Iris could've put the bow on Pansage for no special reason (such as her simply liking it, for example). | ||
:::And while we're discussing Iris, she's the only one who ever referred to Pansage as male, and that was only once. Given how she likes to be a big know-it-all, it could've been just an assumption she made without her actually knowing what Pansage's gender is. Pansage is '''Cilan's''' Pokemon, and he himself never referred to Pansage by a specific gender (likewise, it was Iris who said that Krokorok is Axew's "big brother" and not Ash, but I'll save that for another discussion). [[User:GamerGeek|<span style="color:blue">Gamer</span>]][[User talk:GamerGeek|<span style="color:gold">Geek</span>]] | :::And while we're discussing Iris, she's the only one who ever referred to Pansage as male, and that was only once. Given how she likes to be a big know-it-all, it could've been just an assumption she made without her actually knowing what Pansage's gender is. Pansage is '''Cilan's''' Pokemon, and he himself never referred to Pansage by a specific gender (likewise, it was Iris who said that Krokorok is Axew's "big brother" and not Ash, but I'll save that for another discussion). [[User:GamerGeek|<span style="color:blue">Gamer</span>]][[User talk:GamerGeek|<span style="color:gold">Geek</span>]] 04:59, 10 November 2012 (UTC) | ||
:Also, don't forget that Misty once imagined Pikachu wearing a dress; does that mean he's a girl? Of course not. Ash's female companions tend to have complete disregard for Pokémon genders, especially if it's not their own. Likewise, claiming that Ash's Krokorok is male just because Iris once affectionately referred to it as "Axew's big brother" is '''way''' too much of a stretch. | :Also, don't forget that Misty once imagined Pikachu wearing a dress; does that mean he's a girl? Of course not. Ash's female companions tend to have complete disregard for Pokémon genders, especially if it's not their own. Likewise, claiming that Ash's Krokorok is male just because Iris once affectionately referred to it as "Axew's big brother" is '''way''' too much of a stretch. | ||
:Sorry if I'm coming off as a bit too stubborn and/or one-sided, but I thought Bulbapedia has '''very''' strict guidelines when it comes to gender confirmation for Pokémon, so it just seems odd to me that we'd throw out the whole policy in this case. So again, are there any more arugments anyone can make in defense of Pansage being male. If not, I'm changing it to "Unknown" as well as Ash's Krokorok's, because this is ridiculous. [[User:GamerGeek|<span style="color:blue">Gamer</span>]][[User talk:GamerGeek|<span style="color:gold">Geek</span>]] | :Sorry if I'm coming off as a bit too stubborn and/or one-sided, but I thought Bulbapedia has '''very''' strict guidelines when it comes to gender confirmation for Pokémon, so it just seems odd to me that we'd throw out the whole policy in this case. So again, are there any more arugments anyone can make in defense of Pansage being male. If not, I'm changing it to "Unknown" as well as Ash's Krokorok's, because this is ridiculous. [[User:GamerGeek|<span style="color:blue">Gamer</span>]][[User talk:GamerGeek|<span style="color:gold">Geek</span>]] 05:37, 14 November 2012 (UTC) | ||
::With all the evidence provided I'm still going to say it's male. Nothing has indicated otherwise. And I don't believe we "threw out" our guidelines when an in-game event based on the anime and a character confirmed it. --[[Tracey Sketchit|<span style="color:#33CC66;">'''ケンジ'''</span>]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#6600CC;">'''の'''</span>]][[User:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#FF00CC;">'''ガール'''</span>]] 06:17, 14 November 2012 (UTC) | ::With all the evidence provided I'm still going to say it's male. Nothing has indicated otherwise. And I don't believe we "threw out" our guidelines when an in-game event based on the anime and a character confirmed it. --[[Tracey Sketchit|<span style="color:#33CC66;">'''ケンジ'''</span>]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#6600CC;">'''の'''</span>]][[User:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#FF00CC;">'''ガール'''</span>]] 06:17, 14 November 2012 (UTC) | ||
:::Well, I guess I'm fine to just leave it at that, even if it's just because I don't want to turn this into some big political debate, but it was something that I've been thinking about for some time, and I thought I'd need some clarification before I actually do anything. [[Special:Contributions/GamerGeek|<span style="color:aqua">☆</span>]][[User:GamerGeek|<span style="color: | :::Well, I guess I'm fine to just leave it at that, even if it's just because I don't want to turn this into some big political debate, but it was something that I've been thinking about for some time, and I thought I'd need some clarification before I actually do anything. [[Special:Contributions/GamerGeek|<span style="color:aqua">☆</span>]][[User:GamerGeek|<span style="color:teal">Gamer</span>]][[User talk:GamerGeek|<span style="color:gold">Geek</span>]][[Special:Contributions/GamerGeek|<span style="color:aqua">☆</span>]] 23:33, 20 November 2012 (UTC) | ||
:One more thing, if the event is used as confirmation of its/his gender, wouldn't that also apply to Pansage's ability (Gluttony) as well? [[Special:Contributions/GamerGeek|<span style="color:aqua">☆</span>]][[User:GamerGeek|<span style="color:teal">Gamer</span>]][[User talk:GamerGeek|<span style="color:gold">Geek</span>]][[Special:Contributions/GamerGeek|<span style="color:aqua">☆</span>]] 03:34, 10 December 2012 (UTC) | |||