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==Phione- Legendary or not?==
==Phione- Legendary or not?==
can phione really be considered a legendary?  It is by no means limited to one a game cartridge as legendary Pokemon are, given that it can breed with Ditto as well as any Magnemite, Rotom, or Baltoy.  It's base stats are the same as Glalie's.  Which is NOT legendary.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but in order to be a legendary, doesn't a Pokemon have to be only one per game without trading, and have at least SOMEWHAT good stats?
Can phione really be considered a legendary?  It is by no means limited to one a game cartridge as legendary Pokemon are, given that it can breed with Ditto as well as any Magnemite, Rotom, or Baltoy.  It's base stats are the same as Glalie's.  Which is NOT legendary.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but in order to be a legendary, doesn't a Pokemon have to be only one per game without trading, and have at least SOMEWHAT good stats? {{unsigned|Missingno. Master}}
:In my opinion, it's okay the way this article puts it.  It doesn't mention Phione being a legendary, yet it's in the [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Category:Sinnoh_Legendary_Pok%C3%A9mon legendary category] because it's related to Manaphy (and its Pokédex number is among legendaries).  Kind of like an honorable mention in lists, but still not worth of mentioning a legendary status when talking about Phione itself. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 16:43, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
:In my opinion, it's okay the way this article puts it.  It doesn't mention Phione being a legendary, yet it's in the [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Category:Sinnoh_Legendary_Pok%C3%A9mon legendary category] because it's related to Manaphy (and its Pokédex number is among legendaries).  Kind of like an honorable mention in lists, but still not worth of mentioning a legendary status when talking about Phione itself. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 16:43, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
::Hmm...  It's because of the criterion of mine I mentioned in the last paragraph that I didn't like [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Phione_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29&diff=142880&oldid=142060 this update].  I wonder if somebody agrees with me.  Was it really necessary to mention that "it's still considered a legendary"? --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 00:30, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
::Hmm...  It's because of the criterion of mine I mentioned in the last paragraph that I didn't like [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Phione_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29&diff=142880&oldid=142060 this update].  I wonder if somebody agrees with me.  Was it really necessary to mention that "it's still considered a legendary"? --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 00:30, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
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Accoriding to the "new" rules, the only criteria for a legendary to be legendary is for Nintendo to say it's legendary! END OF STORY! [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 20:05, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Accoriding to the "new" rules, the only criteria for a legendary to be legendary is for Nintendo to say it's legendary! END OF STORY! [[User:Bttsstewart|Bttsstewart]] 20:05, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


Phione is not legendary. However, evolution cannot be the only criteria because when togepi was introduced it was considered to be legendary but it now is part of a three-tier evolutionary line.
Phione is not legendary. However, evolution cannot be the only criteria because when togepi was introduced it was considered to be legendary but it now is part of a three-tier evolutionary line. {{unsigned|Mtn otter}}


== Baby Pokemon? ==
== Baby Pokemon? ==
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Please do discuss.  --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 02:18, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Please do discuss.  --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 02:18, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


It's an HM. That's why. [[User:TinaTheKirlia|<span style="color:#E75480;">Tina</span>]][[User talk:TinaTheKirlia|<span style="color:#E75480;">The</span>]][[Kirlia (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#E75480;">Kirlia</span>]] ♥ [[Image:281MS.gif]] 02:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
It's an HM. That's why. [[User:TinaTheKirlia|<span style="color:#E75480;">Tina</span>]][[User talk:TinaTheKirlia|<span style="color:#E75480;">The</span>]][[Kirlia (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#E75480;">Kirlia</span>]] ♥ 02:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
:Oh...  Does it always happen with babies and HM moves then?  ^_^' And why isn't it valid to place it in the learnset lists?  Is it because it's "obvious"?  --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 03:26, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
:Oh...  Does it always happen with babies and HM moves then?  ^_^' And why isn't it valid to place it in the learnset lists?  Is it because it's "obvious"?  --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 03:26, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


Yes, and yes.  It's listed under... breeding... i think.  [[User:Inker|Inker]] 21:58, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, and yes.  It's listed under... breeding... i think.  [[User:Inker|Inker]] 21:58, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
:Always happens with compatible HMs and TMs. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">TTE</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#0000FF">chidna</span>]]''' 01:06, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
:Always happens with compatible HMs and TMs. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">TTE</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#0000FF">chidna</span>]]''' 01:06, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
They grow up so fast.
:They grow up so fast. {{unsigned|Mtn otter}}


== Pssssst ==
== Pssssst ==
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Well well well, I just checked Pokemon.com and they just said Phione is indeed, not legendary. <!--Awww shit.-->Aww shoot, I totally thought it was. Go to the mailbag. [[User:Tina|Tina]]<sup> [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]</sup> 04:09, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Well well well, I just checked Pokemon.com and they just said Phione is indeed, not legendary. <!--Awww shit.-->Aww shoot, I totally thought it was. Go to the mailbag. [[User:Tina|Tina]]<sup> [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]</sup> 04:09, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
:<!--i saw that...-->does that mean i can use it in the PBR little cup? '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#000033;">MAG</span>]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|<span style="color: #696969;">NE</span>]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#000033;">DETH</span>]]''' 04:21, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
:<!--i saw that...-->does that mean i can use it in the PBR little cup? '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#000033;">MAG</span>]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|<span style="color: #696969;">NE</span>]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#000033;">DETH</span>]]''' 04:21, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
::No because all the Pokémon you use have to be a pre-evolution of another Pokémon. And since Phione doesn't evolve well... --[[Image:Ani048MS.gif]]'''[[Tracey Sketchit|<span style="color:#15E200;">ケンジ</span>]]'''[[Image:Ani183MS.gif]]'''[[User:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#DC0062;">ガール</span>]]'''[[Image:Ani123MS.gif]] 04:26, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
::No because all the Pokémon you use have to be a pre-evolution of another Pokémon. And since Phione doesn't evolve well... --'''[[Tracey Sketchit|<span style="color:#15E200;">ケンジ</span>]]''' '''[[User:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#DC0062;">ガール</span>]]''' 04:26, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
:::oh well. its not like i have PBR anyway. (oh the irony!!) '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#000033;">MAG</span>]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|<span style="color: #696969;">NE</span>]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#000033;">DETH</span>]]''' 04:27, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
:::oh well. its not like i have PBR anyway. (oh the irony!!) '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#000033;">MAG</span>]][[User:MAGNEDETH#Interesting Stuff|<span style="color: #696969;">NE</span>]][[User talk:MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#000033;">DETH</span>]]''' 04:27, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, I absolutely HATE to say I told you so....  But what the heck!  I told you so!  =D  <small><span style="color:#FF0000">--</span>
Well, I absolutely HATE to say I told you so....  But what the heck!  I told you so!  =D  <small><span style="color:#FF0000">--</span>
''[[Glitch Pokémon]].  [[Pokémon|Official Pokémon]].  There is no real difference between the two. [[User talk:Missingno. Master|In my opinion]], the two should be considered equal!<span style="color:#FF0000">--</span> quoted by [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno]][[User:Missingno. Master/The Order of the Glitch|.]] [[User:Missingno. Master|Master]]
''[[Glitch Pokémon]].  [[Pokémon|Official Pokémon]].  There is no real difference between the two. [[User talk:Missingno. Master|In my opinion]], the two should be considered equal!<span style="color:#FF0000">--</span> quoted by [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno]][[User:Missingno. Master/The Order of the Glitch|.]] [[User:Missingno. Master|Master]]
</small> 11:40, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
</small> 11:40, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
:Ah, contradiction. [http://www.pokemon.com/#mailbag_02042008 This] is also from Pokemon.com's mailbag, saying that Phione ''is'' legendary. // [[User talk:Szayel Aporro|<span style="color:#00A550">'''''Szayel</span><span style="color:#C0C0C0">Aporro</span><span style="color:#FF69B4">Granz'''''</span>]][[Image:Ani282MS.gif]] 19:22, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
:Ah, contradiction. [http://www.pokemon.com/#mailbag_02042008 This] is also from Pokemon.com's mailbag, saying that Phione ''is'' legendary. // [[User talk:Szayel Aporro|<span style="color:#00A550">'''''Szayel</span><span style="color:#C0C0C0">Aporro</span><span style="color:#FF69B4">Granz'''''</span>]] 19:22, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
WHAT?!  This is impossible!  Why would they change their answer???  HOW can something with Glalie's base stats be legendary?!  <small><span style="color:#FF0000">--</span>
WHAT?!  This is impossible!  Why would they change their answer???  HOW can something with Glalie's base stats be legendary?!  <small><span style="color:#FF0000">--</span>
''[[Glitch Pokémon]].  [[Pokémon|Official Pokémon]].  There is no real difference between the two. [[User talk:Missingno. Master|In my opinion]], the two should be considered equal!<span style="color:#FF0000">--</span> quoted by [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno]][[User:Missingno. Master/The Order of the Glitch|.]] [[User:Missingno. Master|Master]]
''[[Glitch Pokémon]].  [[Pokémon|Official Pokémon]].  There is no real difference between the two. [[User talk:Missingno. Master|In my opinion]], the two should be considered equal!<span style="color:#FF0000">--</span> quoted by [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno]][[User:Missingno. Master/The Order of the Glitch|.]] [[User:Missingno. Master|Master]]
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::Yea, it says here http://www.pokemon.com/#mailbag_02042008 that it is legendary....--'''[[User:Theryguy512|<span style="color:#FF7F00">Theryguy</span>]][[User talk:Theryguy512|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">5</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">1</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">2</span>]]''' 21:47, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
::Yea, it says here http://www.pokemon.com/#mailbag_02042008 that it is legendary....--'''[[User:Theryguy512|<span style="color:#FF7F00">Theryguy</span>]][[User talk:Theryguy512|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">5</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Contribution Page|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">1</span>]][[User:Theryguy512/Similarities|<span style="color:#5C8CFA">2</span>]]''' 21:47, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
:::Lol yeah, we reverted the 'non-legendary' things a while ago. *points up to Szayel's post* [[User:Tina|Tina]]<sup> [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]</sup> 21:49, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
:::Lol yeah, we reverted the 'non-legendary' things a while ago. *points up to Szayel's post* [[User:Tina|Tina]]<sup> [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]</sup> 21:49, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
:::Let's not forget that there was never a specific "rule" that said legendaries couldn't do what Phione does. After all, Latios and Latias didn't break the legendary genderless rule, they were merely the first legendaries with genders. <span style="background:#FF9030">'''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#000000">chidna</span>]]</span>{{ani|155|Fire echy}}<span style="background:#664444">[[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|<sup><span style="color:#FFD700">G</span></sup><sub><span style="color:#E0E0E0">S</span></sub><span style="color:#000000">DS!</span>]]'''</span> 08:58, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
:::Let's not forget that there was never a specific "rule" that said legendaries couldn't do what Phione does. After all, Latios and Latias didn't break the legendary genderless rule, they were merely the first legendaries with genders. <span style="background:#FF9030">'''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#000000">chidna</span>]]</span><span style="background:#664444">[[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|<sup><span style="color:#FFD700">G</span></sup><sub><span style="color:#E0E0E0">S</span></sub><span style="color:#000000">DS!</span>]]'''</span> 08:58, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
::::Plus, Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres were sort of confirmed to lay eggs in [[Pokemon Snap]], though I'm not sure if that counts or not.
::::Plus, Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres were sort of confirmed to lay eggs in [[Pokemon Snap]], though I'm not sure if that counts or not.


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:::Exactly. It's there to piss you off because people would be all "O LOL I HAS MANAFY FROM EGG I PUT DAYCARE IT MAKE MOAR MANAFY I PUT ON GTS AND GET MEWTOO". And then you get Phione. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 09:14, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Exactly. It's there to piss you off because people would be all "O LOL I HAS MANAFY FROM EGG I PUT DAYCARE IT MAKE MOAR MANAFY I PUT ON GTS AND GET MEWTOO". And then you get Phione. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 09:14, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


== random something thinks i ==
== Random Something Thinks I ==


Why is Phione not in the No eggs group if it's genderless.{{u|Laxafett}}19:41, 18 December 2008(UTC)
Why is Phione not in the No eggs group if it's genderless.{{u|Laxafett}}19:41, 18 December 2008(UTC)
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The guide book is published by [[The Pokémon Company International]], which is the same company that runs Pokemon.com, the website that originally confirmed it's Legendary status. Obviously they've changed their minds.  --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 19:10, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
The guide book is published by [[The Pokémon Company International]], which is the same company that runs Pokemon.com, the website that originally confirmed it's Legendary status. Obviously they've changed their minds.  --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 19:10, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
:''Well, well, well''.  I was right the whole time!  Now, I don't like to gloat.... Who am I kidding?  I ''love'' to gloat!  I was right, and you all were wrong!  I'm off to change the page!  <small>- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' </small> 02:51, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
::I think it is legendary. Why would the ''exact same'' company ban usage of it in VGC? [[User:CuboneKing|<font color="Red">Cu</font>]][[User talk:CuboneKing|<font color="Tan">bo</font>]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|<font color="Green color light">ne</font>]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|<font color="Black">King</font>]] 02:53, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
:::For the exact same reason they banned Rotom until HG/SS came out.  Event exclusive species (formes in Rotom's case).  I knew it all along, the evidence was incontrovertible.  <small>- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' </small> 02:58, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
::::I still don't feel comfortable about this... [[User:CuboneKing|<font color="Red">Cu</font>]][[User talk:CuboneKing|<font color="Tan">bo</font>]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|<font color="Green color light">ne</font>]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|<font color="Black">King</font>]] 02:59, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::Oh, well.  If the Pokémon Company International, the exact same company in charge of the official Pokémon website, says Phione is not legendary, then it's not legendary.  <small>- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' </small> 03:01, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::They've been wrong before. [[User:CuboneKing|<font color="Red">Cu</font>]][[User talk:CuboneKing|<font color="Tan">bo</font>]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|<font color="Green color light">ne</font>]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|<font color="Black">King</font>]] 03:03, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Two things: If TPCi says it's not legendary, how ''else'' are we going to get official confirmation? It's not legendary. There. lol
:::::::The other thing is... you don't need to rub it in everyone's face that you were right. Seriously. Cut it out. >_> ▫▫'''[[User:Tina|<span style="color:#e072a9;">ティナ</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Tina|<span style="color:#728084;">♫</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|<span style="color:#728084;">★</span>]]</sup> 03:05, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::::...I think I remember My Pokémon Ranch calling it legendary... [[User:CuboneKing|<font color="Red">Cu</font>]][[User talk:CuboneKing|<font color="Tan">bo</font>]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|<font color="Green color light">ne</font>]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|<font color="Black">King</font>]] 03:09, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::The Trivia section mentions the conflicting sources, isn't that good enough?  Seriously. <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 03:11, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::No.  See, this is more definitive proof.  See, the website, well, they could change it on a whim.  But if they were to change their minds and declare Phione a legendary, they'd have to do something about these guidebooks.  So if they put in the guidebooks that Phione is not a legendary, they must have been sure about it.  Besides which, the conflicting online source no longer exists.  If there are no further objections (that contain actual reasoning, not just moaning and whining from people who are just upset that they've been wrong the whole time), I will go ahead and unhide that bit in the intro to the article.  It's been a pleasure winning this argument.  In all seriousness, however, I am sorry if I came across as rude about this whole ordeal.  <small>- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' </small> 14:27, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
(unindent) I don't see why we can't mention the controversy. If we're not going to cite our sources on a conflicted bit on information, we should at least bring out where it conflicts. That's what good reporting is about. [[User:Shady|'''Shady]] got [[Image:PokémonDollar{{#ifeq: |Night|_Night}}.png|Pokémon Dollar|link=Pokémon Dollar]][[User talk:Shady|10,000]] for [[Special:Contributions/Shady|winning]]''' 23:55, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
:MM, the source still exists. Origin.pokemon.com. [[User:CuboneKing|<font color="Red">Cu</font>]][[User talk:CuboneKing|<font color="Tan">bo</font>]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|<font color="Green color light">ne</font>]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|<font color="Black">King</font>]] 23:57, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
::Oh, so it does.  Well, it still doesn't change the fact that a more recent source from the same company has something different.  <small>- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' </small> 01:19, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
:::People should really not forget that guidebooks aren't always correct. Some say things like Cascoon can only be obtained at night, so it could be an error [[User:Malake256|Malake256]] 01:35, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
::::OK... too much arguing here. First, I couldn't get origin.pokemon.com to work, much less access the mailbag... anyone care to put up a direct link to the specific mailbag that stated Phione's status? Also, I think that Phione should be considered not legendary as TPCI, the most official source in this matter other than TPC or the games themselves, has stated most recently (the HGSS guidebook) that it is not legendary. Arguments about "they could be wrong", "they couldn't be wrong", "they could sometime change their mind as they have before" are invalid, as they only serve to invalidate the other point of view whenever convenient. Its not an issue of the website or the guidebooks being more official, they are both equally official, but as the guidebook is the ''most recent'', Phione should be considered not legendary until TPCI or a more official source states otherwise.  However, I believe that stating "it's not a legendary" in the lead of the article is unnecessary; we only put up when it ''is'' legendary, we do not go around and put up in every non-legendary's Pokémon article that it's not legendary.
::::That said, precisely because TPCI has contradicted itself before, and there have been numerous debates on this, I think an entire section explaining everything is in order, maybe under Trivia. I'd put it up in the article myself, but I don't wanna get into an edit war so I'll put it up here for everyone to approve/disapprove of first. Also, I think putting up dates the announcements were made might be necessary too. '''[[User:Memo326|<span style="color:#151B8D;">Memo</span>]]'''<i>[[User talk:Memo326|<sup><span style="color:#8D38C9;">326</span></sup>]]</i> 04:24, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::Keep this in mind: the guidebooks are written by idiots. They ''constantly'' screw stuff up and throw in their opinions, not Nintendo's, and their assumptions, not the game programming. It's said that Wurmple evolves depending on time, or on gender, and that was a persistent rumor during Gen III. But we ripped the games apart and verified that no, it's based on the PV. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 04:34, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::I want to point out here that the Media Factory guidebook (the one from which the English guidebook was translated) indeed states that Phione is not considered legendary.  I can't be assed to take an actual picture, but [http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3330177/mfphione.jpg here have a blurry-as-hell webcam picture].  I assure you that it says exactly the same thing as in the English guidebook. <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 04:59, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Then Manaphy isn't legendary either, I assume? And what of Unown? '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 05:19, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Well, yes, the reasoning of "it's not legendary because it can breed" would exclude Manaphy as a legendary. Though Unown is a moot point, since the reasoning is not "every Pokémon that can't breed is a legendary"... But I digress. On the topic of the trustworthiness of the guides: yes, they have been inaccurate, but the site has contradicted itself also. My point is, they're both equally reliable (or unreliable). I mean, both are TPCI, or rather, people employed at TPCI who could make stuff up or make assumptions. So, we either take both as accurate (and the guide, as the most recent update, states how it is as of now) or neither, and therefore we CAN'T conclusively say Phione is or isn't a legendary. Now that I think of it, maybe that last one is for the best. '''[[User:Memo326|<span style="color:#151B8D;">Memo</span>]]'''<i>[[User talk:Memo326|<sup><span style="color:#8D38C9;">326</span></sup>]]</i> 06:00, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
===Status as a legendary Pokémon===
When Phione was first discovered in the Pokémon games, there was much debate whether or not it should be considered as a [[legendary Pokémon]]. Some said it should be, citing its inability to evolve and its rarity (as it could only be bred initially from an already rare Manaphy), as well as its exclusive relationship to the indisputably legendary {{p|Manaphy}}. Others said it shouldn’t be considered legendary, mentioning its capacity to breed and be hatched from regular eggs, as well as its generally weak stats.
Even [[The Pokémon Company International]] has had conflicting announcements about Phione’s legendary status. Firstly, [[Pokemon.com]] mentioned in its mailbag that Phione was not a legendary Pokémon<!--when?-->, but it was changed shortly thereafter<!--when?-->, making Phione officially a legendary for a while. Recently, however, the official guidebook of {{2v|HeartGold|SoulSilver}}, published <!--when?-->also by TPCI, stated that Phione is not a legendary due to its ability to reproduce. Given that this is the latest official update on this Pokémon’s status, it is currently considered to not be a legendary Pokémon.
== Breeding ==
To keep consistency, doesn't Phione need a breeding section "By Breeding/None." I put it up bt someone deleted it >:( so do we need this section or not? It's on Rotom's and other other Pokes that can be obtained through breeding but have no egg moves. [[User:Malake256|Malake256]] 01:42, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
:Consistency is enjoyed. Plz to be putting it there. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 05:11, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
::Sorry about that. I removed it because I thought I had seen other articles without a "by breeding" section. But I must have been wrong. [[User:Shady|'''Shady]] got [[Image:PokémonDollar{{#ifeq: |Night|_Night}}.png|Pokémon Dollar|link=Pokémon Dollar]][[User talk:Shady|10,000]] for [[Special:Contributions/Shady|winning]]''' 22:30, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
== Legendary status ==
Thought I'd add this to the start of the article, to settle the legendary argument:
"Phione is considered by some to be a [[legendary Pokémon]].  However, due to the fact that it can breed and multiple individuals can be obtained, its legendary status remains disputed, with contradiction occuring even between official sources." [[User:Taromon777|<span style="color:turquoise; font-family:Arial">'''T a r o m o n'''</span>]] 21:40, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
The new Pokémon Ranger game '''definitely''' confirms it as non-legendary. '''CASE CLOSED''' -'''[[User:Gengarzilla|I Liek Gengarz!]] <sub>[[User talk:Gengarzilla|Do Joo Liek Dem?]]</sub>''' 16:23, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:It may not be referred to as legendary, but does it explicitly say Phione is ''not'' legendary?  If not, then it is certainly not settled "once and for all". <small><span style="color:white; background-color:blue">'''X'''</span>[[User:Vuvuzela2010|<span style="color:blue; background-color:white">'''Vuvuzela2010''']]</span><span style="color:white; background-color:blue">'''X'''</span></small> 08:17, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
::Black and White disagree it seems, as Phione is banned from the Battle Subway. The difference this time around? Zorua and Zoroark, also event Pokemon, are NOT banned, while Phione, despite being recently stated as non-legendary, is still banned. If someone can simply contact Game Freak themselves and not rely on a spin-off, THEN we can confirm it's status once and for all. Better to get the answer from it's original creator yes? [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 00:40, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Zorua and Zoroark are slightly easier to get without an event, as you can merely trade for them over the GTS.  If you talk to the silent boy in Hiun City, Zorua is recorded as "seen" in your Pokedex, and N uses a Zoroark, so you can search for them.  Phione, on the other hand, cannot be seen in any games, and the only way to see Manaphy is to look at Backlot's book in Platinum.  And even then there's no guarantee that anyone will trade you a Manaphy over the GTS.  And seriously, Phione not being referred to as legendary or rare in Ranger:Guardian Signs when every legendary is?  I'm pretty damn sure that can't be a coincidence.  Please, let's not drag up this old argument again, as I still have my other valid points as to why Phione can't be legendary.  <small>- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' </small> 00:45, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
::::Honestly, until we get a confirmation directly from Game Freak themselves and not someone else saying it for them, Phione's status is still under debate it seems. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 00:47, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
::::Besides it's not like Phione is breaking Metagames anytime soon unlike Zoroark with it's Illusion ability causing massive mind games..... Regardless of how it is found, Zoroark deserves a banning more than Phione in a way. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 00:49, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::Game Freak are unlikley to reply to any fan e-mails, even if sent in Japanese. But if Phione is confirmed as non-legendary, then a good bit of info for the Trivia section would be "Phione is the only non-legendary Pokemon not in any regional Pokedex." <small><span style="color:white; background-color:blue">'''X'''</span>[[User:Vuvuzela2010|<span style="color:blue; background-color:white">'''Vuvuzela2010''']]</span><span style="color:white; background-color:blue">'''X'''</span></small> 00:53, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
::::::I can be debated either way, but don't base if it's legendary or not based on Pokemon Ranger Games. Because according to Pokémon Ranger Celebi is not legendary it's "rare" :| [[User:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">--Pokemaster</span>]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">97</span>]] 01:43, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Rare is still legendary. It's just that there are two kinds in Japanese "legendary" and "rare", which this game distinguishes between. Phione gets nothing as if it were a regular Pokémon (because it is). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 04:04, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Still.... I don't really like trusting spin-offs for this kind of information because sometimes they can make mistakes rather easily (Loads of places mislabel Wurmple's evolution as time based or gender based after all, with even the official site listing it incorrectly last time I checked the site years ago [Doesn't say evolution methods in the modern day site]). I think it's more of a safer opinion if we get an answer from Game Freak, even if they rarely answer, it still seems like a much better option as we can get the truth once and for all... [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] 14:06, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
Why is everyone making such a big deal out of this? In my opinion, Phione is a legendary Pokemon. However, I am not going to argue for or against it. All I have to say on this matter is this: 1. Since WHEN are side games the deciding factor on the status of the Pokemon.
2. The game does NOT say whether it is legendary or not.
Thus, I would never go so far as to base the status of this Pokemon on what the new ranger game says. I suggest we do not jump to conclusions and say flat out that it is not legendary. I say we just state that its status is disputed. Both sides of the argument have given ample evidence, but neither has any evidence that proves WITHOUT A DOUBT that they are right. I say we wait for an OFFICIAL statement on the matter. Till then, I'm not convinced either way (not that it matters). ([[User:Toolen|Toolen]] 03:00, 18 December 2010 (UTC))
On a side note, is their any way to contact Game Freak on this matter? ([[User:Toolen|Toolen]] 03:04, 18 December 2010 (UTC))
:Ample evidence? For: Pokémon.com mailbag entry (the whole mailbag has since been taken down). Against: Recent official HGSS game guide, Ranger GS. Game Freak would be highly unlikely to respond, even if we could contact them. The side game is not the sole proof, it's the tipping piece of evidence. Due to there no longer being any evidence to support it being legendary, and two pieces against, it is now considered not legendary. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 03:40, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
:: Not to throw more wood onto the fire, but I noticed a user making this edit:
::"However, Director of GameFreak inc, Marc Parker, has stated that Phione is indeed a legendary after months of debating with Kacey Traver, the founder of http://www.smogon.com/"
:: What to make of this? --[[User:Rockersk08|<font color="red">rock</font>]][[User talk:Rockersk08|<font color="blue">ersk</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Rockersk08|<font color="green">08</font>]] 20:00, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
:::If we get a reliable source for that, I think we can change it back to being legendary. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 12:41, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
I've changed some of the wording in the article so it has a more neutral point of view; at this stage we can't really prove if Phione is legendary or not.  If all official sources gave the same answer then of course the article could contain that information, but as the official sources contradict each other, it's best just not to say either way.  Although Ranger does seem like the best source to go by, it's still not set in stone, and to say that Phione is not currently classed as legendary is still only Bulbapedia's opinion.  Marc Parker's statement would be a good addition to the Trivia section if we can find a reference.  [[User:Taromon777|<span style="color:turquoise; font-family:Arial">'''T a r o m o n'''</span>]] 19:55, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
== Just saying... ==
Phione is in the list of banned Pokémon from the official video game championship. The list only include legendary Pokémon, so... --[[User:SamuStar|SamuStar]] 17:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
:Or it is the only non-legendary Pokémon listed. Banlists are indications but not proof. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 08:21, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
::It's likely because Phione is technically event-only.--[[User:MisterE13|<span style="color:#0000FF">Mister</span>]][[User talk:MisterE13|<span style="color:#008000">'''E'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|<span style="color:#800080">13</span>]] 15:53, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
and what about Zorua and Zoroark? They aren't banned --[[User:SamuStar|SamuStar]] 16:29, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Hey guys. I'm new. I have an idea. Phione could be semi-legendary! You know, like in Greek if a god has babies with a mortal, there's a demigod? It makes sense! [[User:Cela08|Cela08]] 16:10, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
:Pokémon aint based on greek in any major way -.- [[User:Jyles|Jyles]] ([[User talk:Jyles|talk]]) 21:37, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
::Did he say Pokemon was based on Greek? No. He said you could GIVE it a title based of a greek title. Not that it had one.[[User:Chris Broach|Chris Broach]] ([[User talk:Chris Broach|talk]]) 23:39, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
== Useless part removed ==
I removed this thing: "though it is placed directly before the [[legendary birds]] in the [[Oblivia Browser]], and cannot be obtained until the game is completed.". It doesn't mean anything: first, the Browser position is irrelevant, given the fact that we don't consider Rotom's position in the National Pokédex; secondly, it's true that it's only found after clearing the main quest, but this applies also to normal Pokémon such as Blastoise and Heracross. [[User:Shepeedy|Shepeedy]] ([[User talk:Shepeedy|talk]]) 12:25, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
== Inconsistency ==
I know it was settled above that Phione's Status as a legerendary are disputed and it will be put on the hold until a real source appears, however in several pages, like the Generation V page, Battle Frontier Generation IV, and some others that say Phione is classified as a non-legendary, not mentioning its '''disputed''' status. This is becoming contradictory, since the trivia in Pokémon breeding and Manaphy pages mention Phione being legendary disputed with the *. The Trivia in those other pages should be changed also, because the trivia would be 50 percent wrong (Generation IV having the same number of legendaries with V{{tt|*|With Genenation IV having more if Phione is considered legendary}}; it, Spiky eared Pichu being non-legendaries not able in the facilities{{tt|*|with the latter full confirmed non-legendaries}}) if it is put that away and 100 percente clear with the * disputed.
I think what is important it's not note that Phione being or not legendary, but yes the fact that it can be as is a relative to one. --[[User:Igor Castro Chucre|Igor ]] ([[User talk:Igor Castro Chucre|talk]]) 14:09, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
:They should be changed to mention that its legendary status is disputed, yes. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 14:27, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
::And its non-legendary status is also disputed. --[[User:Igor Castro Chucre|Igor ]] ([[User talk:Igor Castro Chucre|talk]]) 14:39, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
== Black (2) and White (2) ==
Is it possible to get a Phione egg by breeding Manaphy (hatched from egg which was transferred from Platinum version) and a Ditto in Black/White and Black 2/White 2? Because I've been trying but it seems like they're not producing the egg. (as of yet) Or do I need leave them in the day care centre longer? Can someone please confirm this? --[[User:Chickensdoorknob|ℂℏɨ₡ƙ℮ᵰᵴ∂ⱺ☮яϰŊøɓ]] ([[User talk:Chickensdoorknob|talk]]) 01:45, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
:What does the Day Care man say about their relationship? As long as he doesn't say they prefer to play with other Pokémon, they will breed. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 02:02, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
::Ok thanks. I currently don't have my DS with me. But from memory, the day-care man said something like they don't get along very well. I'll try to confirm if they do produce a egg or not later on .--[[User:Chickensdoorknob|ℂℏɨ₡ƙ℮ᵰᵴ∂ⱺ☮яϰŊøɓ]] ([[User talk:Chickensdoorknob|talk]]) 03:25, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
:::They will still produce an Egg even if he says they don't get along, it just takes longer. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 04:52, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
== Pokedex says Warm Water but Cliones like it cold trivia notable? ==
Is it notable that Cliones (which seem to be what Phione is based on) live in cooler waters/climates (from what I have read so far) but all of Phione's Pokédex entries mention warm water? Also, just throwing this out there, but Manaphy's Diamond Pokédex mentions its born on a cold seafloor.
Just testing the waters here, before I add any trivia; no pun intended. [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 17:04, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
:Phione is only based on cliones, it is not actually one. So there are going to be inconsistencies between the Pokémon and the actual creature. It's not notable to put in the trivia section. [[User:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#9F00C5">Crystal</span>]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#FF00FF">Talian</span>]] 21:59, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
== The status dispute? ==
If Pokémon can be divided into 2 groups:
:1/ Legendary/Mythical Pokémon, with:
::1a/ Legendary Pokémon.
::1b/ Mythical Pokémon.
:2/ Other (non-Legendary, non-Mythical) Pokémon.
What exactly the dispute is about? Is it about people don't know which group Phione should fit:
:A/ Between group 1a and 1b?
:B/ Between group 1 and 2?
::If B is the correct answer, then which is true:
:::B0/ Amongst 1a, 1b, and 2?
:::B1/ Between 1a and 2?
:::B2/ Between 1b and 2?
Sorry, my English is bad, so I don't understand exactly the wording of the article. Can you please explain it to me? Thank you in advance! --[[User:Yen01|Yen01]] ([[User talk:Yen01|talk]]) 14:39, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
:It's between 1 and 2; if it's 1, it would clearly be 1b, so we can say the dispute is between 1b and 2. [[User:Shepeedy|Shepeedy]] ([[User talk:Shepeedy|talk]]) 11:50, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
::Oh! Because it says "Phione's [[Phione_(Pokémon)#Legendary status|status]] as a [[Legendary Pokémon|Legendary]] or [[Legendary Pokémon|Mythical Pokémon]] is often disputed, with contradiction occurring even between official sources" at the first part of the article, so I thought it is between 1a and 1b. Anyway, thank you very much! --[[User:Yen01|Yen01]] ([[User talk:Yen01|talk]]) 16:14, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
:::You're welcome :) I agree it was not so clear, now it only says "Mythical Pokémon" since it's clear it would be Mythical if it's "legendary". [[User:Shepeedy|Shepeedy]] ([[User talk:Shepeedy|talk]]) 17:02, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
::::The problem is that at the time Phione's status was referred to officially, English language materials did not distinguish between "Legendary" and "Mythical" and simply called both "Legendary". Since Phione is related to Manaphy, if anything it would be Mythical. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 17:09, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
:::::This [https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/GYRH6RJ survey] strongly implies Phione is not a Mythical Pokémon. The question says "Which of these are your favorite Mythical Pokémon? (Choose your top 3.)", and includes every Mythical Pokémon, but not Phione or Deoxys.--[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 11:21, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
::::::So what exactly is the dispute ''after all''? I'm getting confused ''again''. If Phione may ''not'' be Mythical, what it ''should'' be: Legendary, or neither? Or we don't know for sure? Or the dispute was ''not'' about its Mythical status ''right in the first place?'' --[[User:Yen01|Yen01]] ([[User talk:Yen01|talk]]) 04:08, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
:::::::The dispute is whether or not Phione is Mythical. It is known that it is not Legendary. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 07:52, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
(resetting indent) I think this dispute will never end. Phione is allowed in the Circle of Legends tournament, so it is Legendary or Mythical; "Mythical" seems to refer to event-only Pokémon, hence the fact that Deoxys isn't one of them (as stated in the survey), since it is available during normal gameplay in ORAS.
But Phione is also not Mythical, as it is not mentioned in that survey; so is it Legendary? Or is this another of those contradicting proofs from official sources? [[User:Shepeedy|Shepeedy]] ([[User talk:Shepeedy|talk]]) 20:22, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
:Phione not being Mythical is the exact same reason why Deoxys isn't; it's obtainable perfectly fine in regular gameplay so long as you have Manaphy/Phione or Ditto. That, and also the fact that Phione was never directly given away from events; the closest you got to that was an event distribution for Manaphy which, again, just breed with Ditto and you'll get your Phione. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] ([[User talk:Shiramu Kuromu|talk]]) 13:56, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
::Deoxys is actually explicitly stated to be Mythical in ORAS. "Obtainable in-game" can only be considered a guide now, not a rule. I.e., so far, all Pokemon not obtainable directly in a game are Mythical; but a Pokemon that ''is'' obtainable in-game is not necessarily ''not'' Mythical. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 14:33, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
:::According to the Pokémon 2011 Style Guide aka the Pokémon Product Approval Manual, Phione is Mythical, being listed under the Mythical Pokémon section along with its parent Manaphy, Celebi, Jirachi and a few others. But I feel like this should be a no-brainer at this point, if SnorlaxMonster says it is known that Phione is not Legendary - while it clearly is a "legend" as it was one of the Pokémon allowed in the Circle of Legends tournament - then there's only one option remaining guys. --[[User:Mikuri|<span style="color:#2b915e;">'''Mi'''</span>]][[User talk: Mikuri|<span style="color:#52cc91;">'''ku'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Mikuri|<span style="color:#8debbc;">'''ri'''</span>]] 16:07, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
== Legendary Status ==
So, the Circle of Legends tournament - isn't this sufficient proof on its own? The description states that "only Legendary and Mythical Pokémon may be used", and the Japanese announcement explicitly states that Phione is allowed. This creates the syllogism: 1. Only Legendary and Mythical Pokémon are allowed in the tournament. 2. Phione is allowed in the tournament. Therefore, from 1. and 2. Phione is a Legendary or Mythical Pokémon.
It's not circumstantial; it's from an official first-party source; and the "evidence against" column consists of circumstantial evidence from a spin-off, a third-party source, and a statement based on a fan-assumed definition of legendary Pokémon. Oh, and there's quite a lot of circumstantial evidence to back up that it is legendary/mythical. [[User:Seafarer|Seafarer]] ([[User talk:Seafarer|talk]]) 22:59, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
:In the TPC survey, Phione is not mentioned in the list of Mythical Pokémon. [[User:Shepeedy|Shepeedy]] ([[User talk:Shepeedy|talk]]) 20:17, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
::That's circumstantial - it doesn't make a valid argument that Phione isn't Mythical. Of course, between that and the fact that it's needed for X/Y's diploma, there's a strong argument that it isn't Mythical anymore. However, that's not my point. I'm not trying to say that Phione is specifically one or the other; rather, I'm saying that there's now first-party non-circumstantial evidence that it enjoys one of the two designations. [[User:Seafarer|Seafarer]] ([[User talk:Seafarer|talk]]) 20:38, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
== Change to Mythical ==
I took the initiative to change the "Legendary status" section to have the heading "Mythical status", as the sentence directly below it mentions that its status as a mythical Pokémon, not a legendary one, is disputed.
If anyone has an issue with this change, please mention it. {{unsigned|Pacack}}
== Mythical Status (again) ==
Apologies if this is beating a dead horse, but I'm curious as to if there's any reason why we still give serious weight to the arguments against Phione being a Mythical Pokemon. The amount of evidence for it being Mythical at this point far exceed the few points against it, each of which are all from very old Generation IV material and, as noted by Seafarer above, are very weak (with one even being an assumption rather than actual evidence). Additionally, some of the points in favor (like the Circle of Legends one) are very strong, and are as close to an official confirmation in a core series game or its closely related official material that we're likely to get anytime soon.
Also, there's a mention of that survey that apparently excluded Phione above, but given its timing, exclusion of Deoxys, and the implications of what it was asking, it seems very likely that the survey was gauging the level of interest in each Mythical that would be distributed in the 20th Anniversary giveaways, with the more popular ones being given via store codes. As we know, Phione not being distributed in this way has nothing to do with being Mythical or not, and more to do with availability (hence no Deoxys, Diancie, etc.).
I think we should change how we consider Phione, such that it's included as a Mythical everywhere without strings attached (like [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Diploma&diff=0&oldid=2476583| here], for example). It's still worth mentioning the dispute here and maybe on the Mythical page as a historical thing, but I think the language should be shifted more towards it being something that existed in the past, instead of giving the impression of it being an ongoing dispute. What are staff members' opinions on this? [[User:VioletPumpkin|VioletPumpkin]] ([[User talk:VioletPumpkin|talk]]) 02:41, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
:I completely agree with this, in every article on the global link Phione is mentioned as a mythical pokemon, it's always banned alongside any other mythical pokemon in official cups and vgc metagames and is no longer required for completing the national dex. The trivia section has 8 arguments for phione being a mythical and 3 against, two of which date all the way back to gen 4. Any moderators who still think phione is a disputed mythical should stop being stubborn and start living in the current gen where it's been made clear over and over that phione is a mythical pokemon. [[User:Mijzelffan|Mijzelffan]] ([[User talk:Mijzelffan|talk]]) 21:31, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
::I agree. And I just removed one of the arguments against its Mythical status (the HGSS guide says it's not Legendary, which is not part of the dispute in the modern/HGSS meaning of "Legendary/伝説のポケモン" that does not encompass Mythical Pokémon). There are five waterproof arguments for it being Mythical, and the only non-assumption one for it ''not'' being Mythical is the revoked pokemon.com answer (the dead link). And btw, the TPC survey from the section above has meanwhile been [[Special:Diff/2353910|removed]] for a good reason. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 15:17, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
:::I don't disagree that Phione is clearly a Mythical Pokémon by now, but removing the HGSS guide was improper of you. The Legendary/Mythical split was not localized into English until Generation V (as is clearly stated in the first paragraph of our [[Mythical Pokémon]] article), so at the time of HGSS the dispute would have been whether Phione is Legendary, and the guidebook stands as (weak, old, but still slightly valid) evidence. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 17:24, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
::::Yes, I apologize. (I somehow thought HGSS was Gen V.) Everything else still holds true. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:26, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
:::::Yeah, at this point it looks like it's Mythical in every way that matters. In all circumstances that being Mythical has some substantive effect, Phione is treated the same way. We have Nintendo and the Circle of Legends tournament explicitly calling it Mythical, whereas we only have a Prima guide (unreliable) and a Ranger game against it (although I would be interested to see what Guardian Signs says in Japanese). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 15:12, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
::::::Hey, just checking in. There's a clear consensus here, it's been more than three years and eight months since this conversation, and we're still considering it ambiguous.
::::::The only three pieces of evidence we have against it are two things that predate the term Mythical (one of which doesn't even attempt to define it - "rare" in Guardian Signs has never been linked to Mythical Pokémon elsewhere and is never defined in-game... for all we know, it ''literally means rare,'' which is truer of the other Mythical Pokémon than Phione based on the way they're encountered in GS and their availability in the main series alike) and one site that doesn't ever claim that its list is comprehensive as far as I can tell. For that matter, everything in "Other" is just based on descriptive rules and patterns rather than anything official (and these are broken all the time in Pokémon - see Gen VII introducing evolving Legendary and Mythical Pokémon), ''most of which are also in Phione's favor anyway.''
::::::On the other hand, our "Evidence For" section has ''officially sources explicitly calling it Mythical six times.'' Is there '''any''' valid reason to continue to handle Phione the way we are, or can we please just call it Mythical like every official source? We can even leave the dispute section where it is for the sake of preserving the information (some of it is worthy trivia either way, like having the lowest BST of all fully evolved Mythical Pokémon), but it's no longer remotely a valid excuse to consider its Mythical status unclear and hasn't been for ''years.'' It's getting ridiculous. [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 20:13, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
:::::::It's clear to me that this was missed, so I'm just prodding this again in the hopes that someone will see it this time. [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 21:26, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
::::::::I'm just gonna bump this again because it's been another month. This is a really small change, but it's obviously not going to get done without approval, so it would be nice if it could get that approval... or some kind of acknowledgment... or an actual reason ''not'' to be done. [[User:EpicDeino|EpicDeino]] ([[User talk:EpicDeino|talk]]) 15:27, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::I agree, either we have a reason not to, it should be stated Mythical by default.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|<span style="color:#CC0000">Rocket</span> <span style="color:#666666">Grunt</span>]] ([[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|<span style="color:#CCCCCC">Report To Me</span>]])''' 18:39, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::Sorry, but I think this discussion (which involved staff member(s)) had the clear consensus that it's basically Mythical (and it continues to have that clear consensus). It is my impression that just nobody has done the appropriate edit(s) yet. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 18:33, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
=="Phione can breed to produce another Phione; this is impossible with any other Legendary and Mythical Pokémon."==
Hate to say it but we kind of have no choice in the matter now; the second Cosmog you get in Sun and Moon is the offspring of your own Version Mascot and the opposite it had summoned to produce it, yet alone the fact both Solgaleo and Lunala are the final forms of a split three stage evolution line as well... [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] ([[User talk:Shiramu Kuromu|talk]]) 21:34, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
:The Cosmog evolutionary line cannot breed, so there is no issue here. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 03:37, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
::Then you've clearly not played Sun and Moon and got to the Lake of the Moone/Sunne yet. [[User:Shiramu Kuromu|Shiramu Kuromu]] ([[User talk:Shiramu Kuromu|talk]]) 12:09, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
:::It cannot produce Eggs in the Day Care/Nursery, which is the context in which "breeding" is used. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 12:18, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
== Bank Pokedex (more confusion) ==
Bank has given us evidence against. All confirmed mythical pokemon, and nearly all [[Special Pokémon]] (except Mewtwo), have a shiny/reflective background on their pokedex picture entry, but Phione doesn't. [[User:Jmvb|JMVB - literally it doesn&#39;t stand for anything]] ([[User talk:Jmvb|talk]]) 15:12, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
== Book ==
Official guide to legendary and mythical Pokemon states that phone is a mythical Pokemon.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] ([[User talk:KrytenKoro|talk]]) 00:27, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
Official adventure guide Ashs quest from kanto to kalos says same thing.
== Is it really still disputed? ==
Let's look at the evidence against:
It can breed to produce eggs - a similar logic can be applied to the cosmog line to claim they are not legendaries because they can evolve, but we know they are legendaries and this is simply an exception. Phione could be an exception to the rule that says mythical can't breed to produce themselves, so I don't think this is good evidence
The HGSS guide - this was 7 years ago, and subsequent similar guides have stated it is mythical
Pokemon Ranger - again this game is nearly 7 years old, and subsequent similar side games like Mystery Dungeon have stated that it's mythical. besides this only proves that it's not part of a grouping of pokemon known as in the game as "rare". While this "rare" grouping has overlap with mythical, that doesn't necessarily mean rare = mythical. even if rare=mythical - this game is now 7 years old.
the mailbag - not only is this offline, but the most recent answer was a yes, indicating that the initial answer may have been a mistake.
There are many more sources claiming it is mythical, and crucially these are all more recent than the sources claiming it isn't. the only official sources that stated 100% it isn't mythical (the mailbag and hgss guide), have subsequently been contradicted by similar official sources. ie the mailbag was updated, and there have been similar guides since the HGSS one claiming that it is mythical
maybe we should just call a mythical pokemon, with a note somewhere saying that some older sources stated it wasn't, or that it's mythical status wasn't always clear [[User:Jmvb|JMVB - literally it doesn&#39;t stand for anything]] ([[User talk:Jmvb|talk]]) 11:58, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
:This was discussed [[Talk:Phione (Pokémon)#Mythical Status (again)|a few sections ago]] and the consensus seemed to be agreement, including staff member SnorlaxMonster, but nothing has been done about it yet. I think perhaps the Editorial Board should be prodded to consider the change more hastily. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 15:52, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
== Mythical dispute, continued ==
This topic has been beaten into the ground but I think I should add my input.
I recently added to the Mythical status section with information from the USUM guide book. It states, "As a basic rule, Legendary and Mythical Pokémon can’t find Eggs. However, there is just one exception to this rule: the Mythical Pokémon Manaphy", implying that Phione isn't Mythical or Legendary, because the only breeding Legendary or Mythical is Manaphy.
However, interestingly, it contradicts itself in its own book... "Some Pokémon can’t be traded using the GTS or Wonder Trade— specifically, Mythical Pokémon brought from past games with Poké Transporter: Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Deoxys, Phione, Manaphy, Shaymin, Arceus, Victini, Keldeo, Meloetta, and Genesect." Here, Phione is explicitly listed as being Mythical.
Now, when I brought this up to the bulbapedia discord, SnorlaxMonster said, "I think this is just an oversight where they forgot that Phione can breed to produce Phione. Phione is as good as confirmed to be Mythical."
I think we should have some other mods' inputs on this --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 16:31, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
== Mythical revisited ==
Just more recent evidence for Phione as a Mythical
* Pokémon HOME doesn't allow Phione to be traded via GTS. (i.e. suggesting Mythical)
* Pokémon GO's GAME_MASTER file has Phione flagged as a Mythical Pokémon. However, Phione has not been officially released, but these flags historically have never been changed. Although a spin-off, PoGO's Pokémon's game data is made to not contradict the core series.
I also want to point out that most of the evidence against it being Mythical are outdated from almost 10 years ago (e.g. breeding, obtaining multiple, etc). Generation VII even introduced Legendary and Mythical Pokémon that can evolve (e.g. Meltan). At this point, I don't think there is any more "dispute" over the Mythical status.
[[User:TehPerson|TehPerson]] ([[User talk:TehPerson|talk]]) 17:41, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
:Old discussion, I know, but I want to just chime in as the person who started this whole mess and say that I agree, Phione is unquestionably a Mythical at this point, I think any disputing is long past. <small>- ''totally signed comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' </small> 10:13, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
::At this point, I think it's safe to call Phione a Mythical Pokémon. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 00:45, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
== Mythical Status ==
The consensus for the past seven years of talk page discussion seems to be that Phione is indeed a Mythical Pokémon. The "evidence for" heavily outweighs the "evidence against", and much of the "evidence against" is old. I really don't think it's status is disputed anymore. Please comment below if you agree so that maybe we can make it even more clear to staff that we're ready for the change. [[User:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><font color="orangered">'''Land'''</font>]][[User talk:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><small><font color="darkviolet">'''fish7'''</font></small></span></span>]] 04:07, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
:At this point, the evidence for Phione being a Mythical Pokémon is overwhelming. The question is no longer whether it's Mythical; the question is how the page should mention the now-former dispute over its status. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 04:33, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
::Bumping this. [[User:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><font color="F34134">'''Land'''</font>]][[User talk:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><small><font color="8334B7">'''fish7'''</font></small></span></span>]] 04:51, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
:::Vote for.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|<span style="color:#CC0000">Rocket</span>]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|<span style="color:#666666">Grunt</span>]]''' 11:45, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
::::Agreed too.--[[User:MissDelibirda|MissDelibirda]] ([[User talk:MissDelibirda|talk]]) 15:39, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
:::::Total and complete agreement. Unquestionably a Mythical. <small>- ''totally signed comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' </small> 22:08, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
In the new Pokemon video, it shows Phione as part of the mythicals Pokemon. {{unsigned|TsukiDrifloon}}
:Is there a reason at this point why the page still says it's disputed? It's... pretty clearly a Mythical at this point. And if you remember, I'm the one who started this dispute to begin with. I was wrong, simple as that. Can we not edit the page to actually refer to it as a Mythical now? <small>- ''totally signed comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' </small> 18:04, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
::I read somewhere on here that the issue was no longer that its status was disputed, it was how we should document its formerly-disputed status. [[User:Zurqoxn|Zurqoxn]] ([[User talk:Zurqoxn|talk]]) 13:25, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
:::According to Kogoro, there's still some recent discrepancies that are holding it back. [https://discord.com/channels/202737349996576769/206616744180056065/996191053428306031 Here's the conversation on Discord]. [[User:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><font color="#00d1bc">'''Land'''</font>]][[User talk:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><small><font color="#006699">'''fish7'''</font></small></span></span>]] 20:20, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
::::I'm a few months late but I just want to point out that I absolutely don't agree there are any "recent discrepancies", that conversation only makes mention of an oddity in HOME that was fixed three years ago and now even HOME treats it as Mythical (just like every other recently-released game that distinguishes between Mythicals and non-Mythicals). Honestly I don't think there's any further deliberating on this that needs to be done, can we please just start calling Phione mythical already? [[User:Bandana Hewer Dee|Bandana Hewer Dee]] ([[User talk:Bandana Hewer Dee|talk]]) 10:56, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
::::: Agreed, if is HOME no longer treating it inconsistently in trades/the GTS, that makes the most recent "evidence against" in an actual Pokémon game close to a decade old (Pokémon Bank not giving it a shiny background), with the only recent, (if you consider 2020 recent), "evidence against" being from an extremely "questionably canon" piece of media, the "Pokémon: Kids Winter Fest" minigame website, which is now shutdown, and only lasted a year. [[User:Atrius97|Atrius97]] ([[User talk:Atrius97|talk]]) 04:09, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
::::::Sounds pretty cut and dry to me. <small>- ''totally signed comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' </small> 02:52, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
{{Indent}}Just chiming in to make it clear that I still support Phione being considered Mythical (because it is). [[User:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><font color="#00d1bc">'''Land'''</font>]][[User talk:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><small><font color="#006699">'''fish7'''</font></small></span></span>]] 08:40, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
:So given that there's a very clear consensus in favour of Phione being mythical (and there has been for several years now), can we start editing the articles at this point to reflect that? Or are we waiting for some kind of go-ahead? [[User:Bandana Hewer Dee|Bandana Hewer Dee]] ([[User talk:Bandana Hewer Dee|talk]]) 15:43, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
::Waiting on approval from the {{bp|Editorial Board}}. Someone could probably poke one of the board members about it. [[User:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><font color="#00d1bc">'''Land'''</font>]][[User talk:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><small><font color="#006699">'''fish7'''</font></small></span></span>]] 18:57, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
:::For whatever it may be worth, SnorlaxMonster (a member of the board) expressed support for this earlier on this talk page ([[#Mythical Status (again)|here]] and [[#Mythical dispute, continued|here]]). [[User:Bandana Hewer Dee|Bandana Hewer Dee]] ([[User talk:Bandana Hewer Dee|talk]]) 06:58, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
::::The page has been edited to accommodate this approval. I personally would've probably voted for "yes" as well. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 08:38, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
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