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Talk:Masuda method: Difference between revisions
Undo revision 3555484 by Nescientist (talk) one is a response to an inactive user and the other is asking for a source for something, which they could've made a new section for. Context is key here.
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Force Fire (talk | contribs) (Undo revision 3555484 by Nescientist (talk) one is a response to an inactive user and the other is asking for a source for something, which they could've made a new section for. Context is key here.) Tag: Undo |
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A list of them would be nice, given it sounds like Italian and Spanish pokémon wouldn't count because they aren't "localized" unlike German and French ones. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 03:42, 30 May 2011 (UTC) | A list of them would be nice, given it sounds like Italian and Spanish pokémon wouldn't count because they aren't "localized" unlike German and French ones. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 03:42, 30 May 2011 (UTC) | ||
:Since it is based on the country of origin byte, I would assume that even the country difference between US and UK games would work to produce this effect. However, it is possible that the game restricts to countries of differing languages. I think it is quite likely that Italian and Spanish games would work for the Masuda method. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 12:39, 8 September 2011 (UTC) | :Since it is based on the country of origin byte, I would assume that even the country difference between US and UK games would work to produce this effect. However, it is possible that the game restricts to countries of differing languages. I think it is quite likely that Italian and Spanish games would work for the Masuda method. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 12:39, 8 September 2011 (UTC) | ||
::Just want to point out that past SnorlaxMonster was completely wrong here. There is no country of origin byte in the [[Pokémon data structure in Generation IV|Gen IV Pokémon data structure]]. The only value it could use is the language of origin byte. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 12:56, 2 March 2021 (UTC) | |||
== Wait a moment. == | == Wait a moment. == | ||
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Does the Masuda Method only work with Pokemon from different countries, or Pokemon from different language games? For example, would a British Ditto work on my American Game? [[User:Whitsoxrule|Whitsoxrule]] ([[User talk:Whitsoxrule|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2013 (UTC) | Does the Masuda Method only work with Pokemon from different countries, or Pokemon from different language games? For example, would a British Ditto work on my American Game? [[User:Whitsoxrule|Whitsoxrule]] ([[User talk:Whitsoxrule|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2013 (UTC) | ||
:It's language, afaik, so it wouldn't work. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 23:07, 27 March 2013 (UTC) | :It's language, afaik, so it wouldn't work. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 23:07, 27 March 2013 (UTC) | ||
== different eggs? == | == different eggs? == | ||
I'm trying this method out and i have my party stocked with charmander eggs, I save the game and ride my bike until they hatch. I wanted to know if i need to new eggs every time or if i can just turn my DS off and try and hatch the same ones? any help would be appreciated.([[User:SquirtleSquad1988|SquirtleSquad1988]] ([[User talk:SquirtleSquad1988|talk]]) 07:15, 22 November 2013 (UTC)) | I'm trying this method out and i have my party stocked with charmander eggs, I save the game and ride my bike until they hatch. I wanted to know if i need to new eggs every time or if i can just turn my DS off and try and hatch the same ones? any help would be appreciated.([[User:SquirtleSquad1988|SquirtleSquad1988]] ([[User talk:SquirtleSquad1988|talk]]) 07:15, 22 November 2013 (UTC)) | ||
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I think the Everstone thing no longer applies in gen VI. My Japanese, Timid, 5IV Charizard I got in WT (as a Charmander) is able to pass down his nature via Everstone to his offspring. That's how I got my Battle Box Charizard with 5IVs to be Timid as well. So are all his brothers and sisters I WT or released. [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 15:08, 9 February 2014 (UTC) | I think the Everstone thing no longer applies in gen VI. My Japanese, Timid, 5IV Charizard I got in WT (as a Charmander) is able to pass down his nature via Everstone to his offspring. That's how I got my Battle Box Charizard with 5IVs to be Timid as well. So are all his brothers and sisters I WT or released. [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 15:08, 9 February 2014 (UTC) | ||
:"''In Generation IV'', if the Masuda method is in effect, so both parents come from different countries, the Everstone will fail to increase the chance of passing on a nature." It specifically states that was only in Gen IV that it happened. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 15:11, 9 February 2014 (UTC) | :"''In Generation IV'', if the Masuda method is in effect, so both parents come from different countries, the Everstone will fail to increase the chance of passing on a nature." It specifically states that was only in Gen IV that it happened. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 15:11, 9 February 2014 (UTC) | ||
::Oh ok, sorry ^^; [[User:Yamitora1|Yamitora1]] ([[User talk:Yamitora1|talk]]) 15:22, 9 February 2014 (UTC) | |||
== Replace country with language == | |||
The article mentions that the game looks at 0x17 in the Pokemon data, and that it is called the "home location". However, we already know now that 0x17 is used to store the original language, and that there is no geographical information stored, such as the country. I think that it would clear up a lot of confusion if we just finally clarified that it is indeed the original language that matters for the Masuda Method; I still see a lot of people confused over this and claiming that it is indeed the country because they read so here. Any thoughts? [[User:Miau|Miau]] ([[User talk:Miau|talk]]) 21:04, 26 February 2014 (UTC) | |||
:So, in X and Y the Masuda Method activates depending on the language the game is set to play in? If I buy two copies of X in USA and set one's language to English and the other to Japanese, will trading between the two allow the Masuda Method to activate? Alternatively, if I bought one USA copy of X and one Japanese copy of X and set both to play in English, would trading between these two allow the Masuda Method to work? [[User:TheGameNinja|TheGameNinja]] ([[User talk:TheGameNinja|talk]]) 04:45, 12 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
::My bad, I meant for the clarification to be only for Gen 5 games; actually there is geographical information stored in Gen 6 data, so I have no idea how it is supposed to work now. I do suspect that it's only used for Vivillon patterns though, and that the MM takes into consideration the original language of the game, not the language you chose. But again, this is only my speculation, and we won't know for sure until someone breaks the codes to confirm anything. [[User:Miau|Miau]] ([[User talk:Miau|talk]]) 18:24, 2 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
== Does it have to be a Ditto or the same species? == | |||
Okay let's just say I'm trying for a shiny Shroomish, and have a foreign Breloom. Does the other parent have to be a Ditto? And if not, then does it have to be another Breloom, or can I just use a Poke from the same egg group? {{unsigned|The Ninja Sheep}} | |||
:The parent can be anything that is compatible with Breloom and Shroomish. So long as it's foreign, and is male (The baby will always be the same species as the mother so you should make sure the mother is a Breloom if you decide to use something other than a Breloom or a Ditto.) <sup>[[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup>[[User:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">Jo the Marten</span>]]<sup>[[Flygon (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup> [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">ಠ_ಠ</span>]][[Cilan (anime)|<span style="color:#90C870;">♥</span>]] 01:49, 5 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
== Probability == | |||
The probability using the shiny method is off, because the actual probability is 1-((1-(1/4096))^6) not 6*(1/4096). [[User:Zombiedude347|Zombiedude347]] ([[User talk:Zombiedude347|talk]]) 00:12, 9 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
== Update Required? == | |||
The information in this article seems rather outdated. Can anyone help update this article? I'd do it myself, but I don't know the mechanics of this method. [[User:LittleOmu|LittleOmu]] ([[User talk:LittleOmu|talk]]) 00:28, 6 February 2015 (UTC) | |||
== Trade Type == | |||
Does anyone know if the Masuda Method works with IR trading and not just Link Trading? Or if there's any differences at all? Thanks! | |||
[[User:HaunterBaby626|HaunterBaby626]] ([[User talk:HaunterBaby626|talk]]) 16:07, 18 August 2015 (UTC) HaunterBaby626 | |||
:The method of getting the foreign Pokémon does not matter, so yes it would work with IR trading. [[User:Litwick96|<span style="color:purple">Litwick</span>]][[User Talk:Litwick96|<span style="color:grey">96</span>]] 20:10, 18 August 2015 (UTC) | |||
== Update needed for Gen VI mechanics == | |||
This has been brought up a few times before on this discussion page, but I hope to revive the topic again: the article needs to be updated–the Masuda method in Gen VI now looks at game language, although to be technical, the Masuda method has always been looking at game language. The use of "region", "country" or "location" is a misnomer, because in Gen V and before, the language of the game is locked to the game region, leading to the idea that it is the region which matters. | |||
What 0x17 records in Gen V is the game language ([https://projectpokemon.org/wiki/Pokemon_NDS_Structure#Block_A source]). This was expanded in Gen VI, with the relevant markers being: | |||
{| | |||
!Marker (byte) | |||
!Data recorded | |||
|- | |||
|0xE3 (the old 0x17) | |||
|Language | |||
|- | |||
|0xE0 | |||
|Country | |||
|- | |||
|0xE1 | |||
|Region | |||
|- | |||
|0xE2 | |||
|3DS region | |||
|} | |||
0x17 in Gen VI now records data relevant to [[Super Training]]. ([https://projectpokemon.org/wiki/Pokemon_X/Y_3DS_Structure#Block_D_.280xB0-0xE7.29 source], with PKHeX also referencing these same bytes) | |||
0xE3 determines the language tag appearing above the dex number in the Pokemon's summary screen. 0xE0, 0xE1, 0xE2 depend on the 3DS settings, and as far as I know, are not visible nor possible to determine in-game. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 13:16, 17 April 2016 (UTC) | |||
:I've always wondered that, but it's not that easy to confirm by myself. Is it really the language, then? Like, in Gen IV, can you have a Pokemon from a US game and a Pokemon from a European (English) or Australian game, and between the two Pokemon, the game region (or something, or multiple bytes) will be different but the language bytes will be the same, and since the language is the same they won't trigger the Masuda method? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:31, 17 April 2016 (UTC) | |||
::Unfortunately, it's hard for me to confirm this with physical games too, so I left the text here. In Gen V and before, there is no separate region byte, only the language byte. Region/country/3DS region only started being recorded in Gen VI. Geographically speaking, Gen V and below Pokemon from a US game and an Australian game will be treated by the game as originating from the same "region". [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 16:46, 17 April 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::Sorry for the successive edits, but it seems that the article in the past ''did indeed'' talk about game language: [[Special:Diff/1724585]]. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 16:48, 17 April 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::Let me ask it another way, then. Do you know if a Pokemon from a US game and a Pokemon from a European-English or Australian game really have the same "language"/"country of origin" byte? Not, like, they can have different values which the game may understand as both equating to "English"? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:55, 17 April 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::::I can confirm that for Gen V and VI, for Pokemon originating from different English-language games, the language byte is the same value, i.e. it is a value corresponding to "English", and that there is no "American English" or "European English". However, I don't have any evidence to say the same for Gen IV and before. Would it be good enough evidence to consider that, in [https://projectpokemon.org/pokegen/ PokeGen], the "Country" (misnomer) field has the following as possible options: [https://projectpokemon.org/wiki/Pokemon_NDS_Structure#Original_Language], and that there is otherwise no possible way to differentiate between a US and a UK Pokemon? [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 17:08, 17 April 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::::Oh, I was looking for that page on the Project Pokemon wiki, but the page names aren't organized in the most helpful way... =P Project Pokemon is a pretty good place generally, but that is a wiki. Pervesely perhaps, I sort of prefer Pokegen's evidence a bit; plenty of people use it, I imagine someone would have corrected it if there were actually different English values. I'm well enough convinced the determinant has just been language all along. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:28, 17 April 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::::::I have created a version with the changes at [[User:Chenzw/Masuda method draft]]. I would like to include a part about the misconception between game language and cartridge region, but I can't find a suitable spot for it. Likely this misconception was due to the fact that in Gen V and before, each region's cartridge can only have one language; this was changed when Gen VI games allowed all copies of the game to be played in all available languages. I will also be going to the archives later to request approval for in-game screenshot upload, to illustrate the Pokemon's language tag found on the summary screen. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 04:06, 18 April 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::::::Never mind about the uploads, seems like an existing image will do the trick just fine: [[:a:File:Omega Ruby 724 glitch Pokémon summary.png|File:Omega Ruby 724 glitch Pokémon summary.png]]. I will add that image on the next server day. [[User:Chenzw|Chenzw]] ([[User talk:Chenzw|talk]]) 04:16, 18 April 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::That glitch image isn't really ideal... Images of legitimate Pokemon are preferred for legitimate "purposes", if possible. | |||
:::::::::Otherwise, the changes on your user page look very reasonable, feel free to just apply them here. (I haven't ''fully'' digested them, though; I may at some point decide things could be worded better somewhere. But for now it's fine.) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 04:30, 18 April 2016 (UTC) | |||
== Discrepancy within the article == | |||
This is stated in the intro: | |||
''and by 4 (to 4/4096, or 1/1024) in Generation VI onwards..'' | |||
But this is stated under Mechanics and Reasoning: | |||
''Generation VI appears to work the same as Generation V (generating a probability of 6/4096 due to Generation VI's increased Shiny odds).'' | |||
So what is the truth? As far as I know the latter is generally accepted within the community (6/4096 or 1/683 without the Shiny Charm, 8/4096 or 1/512 with it). [[User:Vinx|Vinx]] ([[User talk:Vinx|talk]]) 10:58, 8 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
==Same cartridge?== | |||
Would that mean that the Masuda two Pokémon from the same cartridge (or on two cartridges from the same region), one caught while playing the game in one language and one caught while playing on the same cartridge in a different language?[[User:Yoshisaur|Yoshisaur]] ([[User talk:Yoshisaur|talk]]) 14:15, 25 June 2017 (UTC) | |||
:According to the information in the article, it sounds like the answer is probably yes, using Pokemon from the same cartridge after restarting the game and playing in a different language would most likely activate the Masuda method. However, I'm not sure if this has been specifically tested, so I'm going to add a research template to the article in the hopes that someone can tell us for certain. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 15:16, 25 June 2017 (UTC) | |||
::Pokémon aren't flagged as coming from a specific cartridge. If you start a new save file, you get a Trainer ID and Secret ID completely different to your original ones. From Generation VI onward, the games do record language of origin, country of origin, and 3DS region of origin, so those would be the factors to consider (prior to Generation VI, only language of origin was recorded). --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 16:00, 25 June 2017 (UTC) | |||
== American Flag to represent English? == | |||
Should we change the Flag to a more neutral one, given that English is spoken in lots of countries? I've seen a lot of confusion online that the Masuda works off country, not language, and having the American flag here might not help. I think the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_England Flag of England] (not to be confused with the Flag of the UK), would be more appropriate? {{unsigned|Jmvb}} | |||
:I've uploaded [[a:Category:Language icons|language icons]] from Sun and Moon, and replaced the flag icons on this page with those language icons. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 12:52, 2 December 2021 (UTC) | |||