View source for Talk:Trial Captain

==Age==
What evidence do  we have that all of the trial captains are 11 to 19 years old ? [[User:05308|<font color="blue">Diamond</font>]] [[Lanturn (Pokémon)|<font color="yellow">Lanturn</font>]] [[User talk:05308|<font color="red">CodeName: 05308</font>]] 16:11, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
:It's stated somewhere ingame, I don't remember where. --[[User:Celadonkey|<span style="color:#98CC00">Celad</span>]][[User_talk:Celadonkey|<span style="color:#FFC37D">onkey</span>]] 16:14, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
::Only 11-year-old Trainers are allowed to participate in the island challenge, and captains are said to have completed the challenge. Mallow says captains have to retire once they turn 20. --[[User:Mikuri|<span style="color:#2b915e;">'''Mi'''</span>]][[User talk: Mikuri|<span style="color:#52cc91;">'''ku'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Mikuri|<span style="color:#8debbc;">'''ri'''</span>]] 16:30, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

== "11-19" ==

I was going though the [https://web.archive.org/web/20161118233734/http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-us/captains/ official website], and I came across this excerpt on the Trial Captains section: ''"All of the captains are Trainers who undertook trials in their own island challenge a few years earlier."'' We know that Trainers must be at least 11 to take on the Island Challenge, and a few years cannot be one, but it can be as low as two, meaning the Trial Captains (excluding [[Mina]] for many reasons) would be ''13''-19, not 11-19 as we thought. [[User:Inkster|Inkster]] ([[User talk:Inkster|talk]]) 05:50, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
:"Few" is vague and subjective. It could be three, it could be seven. The actual games are the only sources to put out an actual number, which is more reliable than an arbirtary statement. Also, if you are going to ask something, have the patience to wait for a resonse. Don't just make the edits.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#44BAE5">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#85D2EE">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#DA7D99">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#E7ABBD">ire</span>]] 14:59, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
::This is from the official website, and it says they've been captains for years, which shows they can't be 11. [[User:Inkster|Inkster]] ([[User talk:Inkster|talk]]) 18:56, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
:::A vague and arbritrary statement is still a vague and arbritrary statement. The point is, the games at least gives us a minimum number and a maximum number, whereas the official sites does not give a number.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#44BAE5">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#85D2EE">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#DA7D99">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#E7ABBD">ire</span>]] 06:27, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
::::I think we can add that sentence to Trial Captains articles, but because it's vague it won't change the "11-19" part.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|<span style="color:#CC0000">Rocket</span>]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|<span style="color:#666666">Grunt</span>]]''' 12:40, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
:::::"vague and arbitrary statement". So is the "they are usually 10 or 11 years old" nonsense. glik explicitly stated in that case that the source used ''doesn't confirm anything''. Seems hypocritical to me. [[User:Inkster|Inkster]] ([[User talk:Inkster|talk]]) 12:50, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
::::::We're not supposed to confirm or deconfirm anything, we only collect what is stated or known and present it to the people.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|<span style="color:#CC0000">Rocket</span>]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|<span style="color:#666666">Grunt</span>]]''' 13:02, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
::::::I'm taking glik's word with what he said about the player characters. On Discord he said it was too vague and indeterminate and unacceptable. [[User:Inkster|Inkster]] ([[User talk:Inkster|talk]]) 13:06, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
:::::::It's an official statement from a creator. It's a fact and useful information no matter what.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|<span style="color:#CC0000">Rocket</span>]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|<span style="color:#666666">Grunt</span>]]''' 13:16, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
::::::::glik is part of the Editorial Board, and if he says it's unacceptable, than it's unacceptable. It's not that hard to grasp. Plus, it came from an unofficial TRANSLATION, and Ken Sugimori is one of the series' illustrators, not a creator. [[User:Inkster|Inkster]] ([[User talk:Inkster|talk]]) 19:17, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::If Glik wants to say something then he can do it himself. I wouldn't agree so fast with whatever anyone from the staff says.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|<span style="color:#CC0000">Rocket</span>]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|<span style="color:#666666">Grunt</span>]]''' 20:18, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::There's a difference between "island captains start at 11 and must leave their post at 20" and "player characters are usually 10-11 years old". The former uses absolute, definitive wording, whilst the latter is a generalisation and isn't as definitive. Context is the key here.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#44BAE5">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#85D2EE">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#DA7D99">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#E7ABBD">ire</span>]] 01:43, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::::The former I find hard to apply to Mina due to her LGPE concept art putting out an actual age (whom I think her SM/USUM age should be listed as simply "less than 20" because it is never stated whether she is younger in LGPE or older in SM/USUM), and the latter mixes up fanon and canon. The only two PCs in the latter's suppossed range are Red and Elio/Selene, and most of the PCs ages are (intentionally) ambiguous. [[User:Inkster|Inkster]] ([[User talk:Inkster|talk]]) 02:45, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::::If you read the ''translation'', it's not "in all games." Sugimori's use of "in previous games" makes a huge difference (it seems to refer to the pre-BW characters but this is a whole other can of worms), so it shouldn't be framed as such generic info. [[User:Inkster|Inkster]] ([[User talk:Inkster|talk]]) 11:58, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::To '''ForceFire''': Yes, I know, but that's other topic. You heard Inkster's suggestion, so please can you now give us your final opinion on Mina's (and other Trial Captains) ages, in sense, how they should be presented on their pages? Inkster comes back every month to this topic because he's unsatisfied so it needs to be resolved. Facts we know are:
# ''Trail Captains have done their Island Challenges which require minimum age of 11''
# ''Mallow said that Trial Captains have to resign when they turn 20''
# ''official site states that Trial Captains have done their island challenges a few years ago''
# ''Mina's LGPE design is describes as "looking 13-15" and she looks younger than her SMUSUM design''
::::::::::In my opinion Trail Captains should have it written as: '''11-19  with references [1][2][3]''' and Mina: '''13-15 [4] LGPE, 16-19 [1][2][3][4] SMUSUM'''. I know that point [3] doesn't change here anything and that's because it's vague, although I don't want to hide any relevant information from the readers, any conclusions are up for their interpretation. You don't have to agree with everything from this suggestion, all I want from you is some more definite solution that wouldn't be as easily questioned.--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|<span style="color:#CC0000">Rocket</span>]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|<span style="color:#666666">Grunt</span>]]''' 11:20, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

== Unnecessary move suggestion? ==

A move suggestion was made at some point on this page, but it hasn't been discussed here, so I'll start the topic discussion by saying that the suggestion is unnecessary: we have many examples of pages like "Gym Leader", "Kimono Girl", and "Warden" that are used as Trainer classes but don't have the "Trainer class" part in their names, which I think should remain the case for this page too. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 15:50, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
:It's been discussed on the Discord with some very well in-depth research, most people seem to agree it should just be Captain, with a large majority of the staff agreeing with it. I think the decision was that it should be moved, but the action was never done. (of course staff members, and other users are allowed to correct me on this.) As the page suggests, the "trial" part of "trial Captain" was only ever made within promotional material for English only, every other time their role has been mentioned it's only been "Captain." Other languages don't even use the word "trial" or it's alternative and simply just call them "Captain" (or their alternative). Capitalization was also inconsistent in Sun and Moon, but by Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, it's been primarily fully capitalized. (TL;DR: "trial" isn't part of their name.) [[User:TrainerSplash|TrainerSplash]] ([[User talk:TrainerSplash|talk]]) 07:00, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
::Why was that never brought up here? Seems like an unnecessary idea to me, personally. It's still an official term. Shouldn't discussions like this happen here in the open rather than hidden on Discord? --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 11:09, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
:::The thought was likely never brought up. It's easier for me to bring something up on the discord and have people research it that (which significant progress was made). Sometimes things slip passed without proper resolution. Another reason is that [[Captain]] is also already a page for a disambig, so discussion also just involved what the page should actually be titled, and not just "Captain (Trainer Class)" because that would ruin some inconsistency with stuff like [[Gym Leader]] which doesn't have that tag on it.
:::Personally, I'm under the boat of Captain (Sun and Moon), or changing the old disambig to Captain (disambiguate) and calling this one Captain. Calling it Captain (Trainer Class) is a bit awkward when it talks about the properties of the Captains when they're not always a Trainer Class. [[User:TrainerSplash|TrainerSplash]] ([[User talk:TrainerSplash|talk]]) 19:22, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
::::Finnish: Generally for a page to be moved, yeah the discussion would need to be made here, hence why it has not been moved yet. [[User:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma;color:#32b761">'''Land'''</span>]][[User talk:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma;color:#5f6775"><small>'''fish7'''</small></span>]] 13:19, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
:::::I've had some time to think. I didn't even realize that "Trial Captain" has not been used in-game until this discussion. "Captain (Alola)" is my suggestion if the page is to be moved. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 13:27, 15 April 2024 (UTC)