View source for Talk:Pokémon in Greater China

Permission to edit? --<font color="#990000" face="DFKaiSB">'''神智の</font>[[User:神奇超龍|<font color="#2B547E" face="DFKaiSB">超龍</font>]]「'''[[User talk:神奇超龍|對話]]'''」''' 12:07, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
:Go ahead! This all the info I have obtained ^^;. --[[Special:Contributions/CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#00AF33;">'''☆'''</span>]][[User:CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#0098d9;">'''Cool'''</span>]][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#F8D030;">'''Pikachu!'''</span>]] 02:17, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
::Is this better? I also added some links for references. Some sections still need improvement (such as the voice actor and TCG). 
::On a related note, there's also the issue concerning Taiwan and mainland China. This article implied the Taiwan <!--(ROC)--> is a part of the PRC, so I removed the flag (We should put three {{tt|flags|Taiwan (top - because they are the ones who localizes the anime and manga), mainland and Hong Kong}} instead). Any idea on how to make this article {{tt|politically neutral|As in not getting the Taiwanese, mainlanders and Hongkongers mad at us}}? --<font color="#990000" face="DFKaiSB">'''神智の</font>[[User:神奇超龍|<font color="#2B547E" face="DFKaiSB">超龍</font>]]「'''[[User talk:神奇超龍|對話]]'''」''' 08:49, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Good job. As for the flags, I'd pull a [[Pokémon in Latin America]] do so. --[[Special:Contributions/CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#00AF33;">'''☆'''</span>]][[User:CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#0098d9;">'''Cool'''</span>]][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#F8D030;">'''Pikachu!'''</span>]] 08:55, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Thank you, although I put too much focus on Taiwan, since I don't have that much info on mainland and Hong Kong. Also, should we use the Chinese logo instead. [http://www.my-cartoon.com.tw/pokemon/bw/index.htm Here's] one for the Best Wishes series. --<font color="#990000" face="DFKaiSB">'''神智の</font>[[User:神奇超龍|<font color="#2B547E" face="DFKaiSB">超龍</font>]]「'''[[User talk:神奇超龍|對話]]'''」''' 09:08, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Can I have permission to edit as well? I have watched the Mandrin dub of some ofthe Pokémon episodes when I visited Taiwan not too long ago.--<span style="color:#FA92B2;">99pokemon  [[User_talk:99pokemon|talk]]</span> 22:30, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
:Go ahead. Anyone's allowed to edit it :). --[[Special:Contributions/CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#00AF33;">'''☆'''</span>]][[User:CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#0098d9;">'''Cool'''</span>]][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#F8D030;">'''Pikachu!'''</span>]] 02:04, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
::I may put way too much focus into Taiwan because I have been there and watched Pokémon anime there though.--<span style="color:#FA92B2;">99pokemon  [[User_talk:99pokemon|talk]]</span> 20:49, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

The anime section would still need some more improvements, especially on the Cantonese part. I could help improve it more when I have the time, particularly the voice actors, but they're really hard to find since there are no voice credits in the dub. For the manga, I can't add that much (maybe I could add a bit about the Emerald Guidebook). This article still needs info on {{tt|merchandise|possibly stuff from McDonalds}}, TCG, and Battrio. All I could find for these are links to the official website (already added). I don't really know much about them. --<font color="#990000" face="DFKaiSB">'''神智の</font>[[User:神奇超龍|<font color="#2B547E" face="DFKaiSB">超龍</font>]]「'''[[User talk:神奇超龍|對話]]'''」''' 17:22, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
::It's alright, as long as we can get info. Do you have flags of the other Chinese territories that have Pokémon (Taiwan & Hong Kong)? --[[Special:Contributions/CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#00AF33;">'''☆'''</span>]][[User:CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#0098d9;">'''Cool'''</span>]][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#F8D030;">'''Pikachu!'''</span>]] 21:01, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Wikipedia has the flags of {{wp|File:Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China.svg|Republic of China}}, {{wp|File:Flag_of_Hong_Kong.svg|Hong Kong}} and {{wp|File:Flag_of_Macau.svg|Macau}}. I may add something about PokéPark and Emerald Guidebook later. For :::, should this article be moved to "Pokémon in {{wp|Greater China}}"? --[[User:Swampert|Swampert]] 05:30, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Thanks, I guess we could move it there for it being politically neutral. But is everyone else okay with "Greater China"? --[[Special:Contributions/CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#00AF33;">'''☆'''</span>]][[User:CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#0098d9;">'''Cool'''</span>]][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#F8D030;">'''Pikachu!'''</span>]] 05:48, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::I have a Taiwan flag...--<span style="color:#FA92B2;">99pokemon  [[User_talk:99pokemon|talk]]</span> 21:24, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
::::::Thanks, but I already upload one.<br>[[File:Taiwan Flag.png]]. --<font color="#990000" face="DFKaiSB">'''神智の</font>[[User:神奇超龍|<font color="#2B547E" face="DFKaiSB">超龍</font>]]「'''[[User talk:神奇超龍|對話]]'''」''' 05:18, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

== Pokémon in Taiwan  ==

According to electAbuzzzz (project head), he says that Taiwan should get their own article due to them having its own dub among other things. --[[Special:Contributions/CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#00AF33;">'''☆'''</span>]][[User:CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#0098d9;">'''Cool'''</span>]][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#F8D030;">'''Pikachu!'''</span>]] 21:58, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

:I wouldn't mind, but we should also create articles for mainland China and Hong Kong (just so we don't look biased). There should be enough information for {{tt|Taiwan|anime, manga, etc. (TCG, Battrio, events, merchandise)}} and {{tt|mainland China|manga, anime, etc. (merchandise, TCG, others)}}. We do need someone to help with Hong Kong. --<font color="#990000" face="DFKaiSB">'''神智の</font>[[User:神奇超龍|<font color="#2B547E" face="DFKaiSB">超龍</font>]]「'''[[User talk:神奇超龍|對話]]'''」''' 17:32, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
::Sounds good, I think I can get some info on Hong Kong but I doubt it. --[[Special:Contributions/CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#00AF33;">'''☆'''</span>]][[User:CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#0098d9;">'''Cool'''</span>]][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#F8D030;">'''Pikachu!'''</span>]] 05:22, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

:Personally I think one article is better. Taiwan ''does'' have much more Pokémon materials than Hong Kong and mainland China. But actually, anime, manga and other materials in Hong Kong and mainland China are deeply influenced by the Taiwan version. Hong Kong has the same anime (Top-Insight) and manga (Ching-win) distributors with Taiwan. Even there're different dubs, all translation in the CCTV re-dub for Season 1 and Season 3 is just a rip-off of Taiwan version (They keep the mistakes as well). Normally in the ''Chinese-speaking regions'' (may be a better title suggestion), Taiwan get everything first (Mainland has PokéSpe 17-23 earlier, but now they're only serializing 30). As a mainlander I imported many Pokémon DVDs and books from Taiwan, I like them. --[[User:Swampert|Swampert]] 16:03, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
::Actually, The taiwan anime and the Mainland China anime is the same. The only problem is that China banned Pokémon in 2006 (Not sure)so maybe the Taiwan and Mainland China article should be the same.--<span style="color:#FA92B2;">99pokemon  [[User_talk:99pokemon|talk]]</span> 20:10, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
:::Mainland still have the manga, and like Swampert said, they can import stuff. Not to mention the products from McDonald's. We could instead call it "Pokémon in the Sinophone world"{{tt|*|but that sort of includes Singapore and Malaysia}} (which is similar to Chinese-speaking region). --<font color="#990000" face="DFKaiSB">'''神智の</font>[[User:神奇超龍|<font color="#2B547E" face="DFKaiSB">超龍</font>]]「'''[[User talk:神奇超龍|對話]]'''」''' 20:21, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
::Mainland China never banned Pokémon, but the <!--stupid--> gov't banned all foreign anime airing between 17:00 to 21:00. Actually the State TV aired Pokémon Season 3 in 2008, but on Sunday mornings. A remarkable thing is KFC and McDonald in mainland China. KFC had Pokémon toys in 2006, they used the Simplified Chinese logo on them ([[Advance Generation series|'''神奇宝贝超世代''']]). But in 2010, when McDonald (as well as MEJI and Nestle) had Pokémon toys, they use the English Pokémon logo ([[a:File:Pokémon_logo_Southeast_Asia.png|South-East Asia style]]) instead. --[[User:Swampert|Swampert]] 11:52, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
:::Hrm, if there is such info as this, I see why not to split the article by these three areas? --[[Special:Contributions/CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#00AF33;">'''☆'''</span>]][[User:CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#0098d9;">'''Cool'''</span>]][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#F8D030;">'''Pikachu!'''</span>]] 23:01, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

== Diamond & Pearl debut in Mainland China ==
So {{tt|精灵宝可梦：钻石与珍珠|Diamond & Pearl series}} finally comes to Mainland China. CCTV-6 aired DP001 and DP002 this morning, and DP003 & DP004 will be aired next Sunday morning. Surprisingly, the new translate 宝可梦 is NOT pronounced in the Chinese way Bǎokěmèng. Instead, it is pronounced the very same as Pokémon in English. {{tt|波加曼|Piplup}}, {{tt|姆克儿|Starly}}, {{tt|阿利多斯|Ariados}} and {{tt|皮卡丘|Pikachu}}'s names have a strange tone, they're not read in Mandarin, but a western-style tone (these names are all transliteration). I find only two translation differences between CCTV's version and Taiwan version. Route is translated as 公路 not 道路, the same as Ching-win and JiLin Fine Arts. Pokémon Food is translated as --粮 not --食物. All Pokémon, locations, characters and moves' names keep the same. Like other versions, the Pokémon cries are re-dubbed(except Pikachu), but they're more similar as Japanese version, not like their Chinese names(In Hong Kong and Taiwan BW versions, Pokémon cries their Chinese names).  It's a good news that Pokémon anime returned to Mainland China. But personally I still prefer 神奇宝贝. --[[User:Swampert|Swampert]] 06:41, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
:Oh, do mind having it added onto the article ^^;? --[[Special:Contributions/CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#00AF33;">'''☆'''</span>]][[User:CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#0098d9;">'''Cool'''</span>]][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#F8D030;">'''Pikachu!'''</span>]] 07:39, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
::So, is the new dub based on Taiwan's dub (such as having similar dialogs) or is it something re-translated from Japanese (but just using the same names)? --<font color="#2B547E">'''神</font><font color="#F8D030">電</font><font color="#990000">の</font>[[User:神奇超龍|<font color="#0B0BA6">超龍</font>]]「'''[[User talk:神奇超龍|對話]]'''」''' 18:15, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
:::It's totally re-translated, not like years ago. Someone posted a comparsion [http://www.52poke.com/post/822/#comments here]. Hoenn is 丰缘 not 芳缘, Kanto is 关都 not 关东 in case anyone cares. The dub is done by a company named [http://www.dynamicmedia.com.cn/ DynamicMedia], under the license of ShoPro. DynamicMedia also imported 4 DP movies, and they'll be aired on TV in Mainland China (mostly like CCTV6 too) in the future. One possible internal staff stated on a forum before the airing that all the translations for vocabulary, and how 宝可梦 pronounced, are all direct decided by the Japanese officials. --[[User:Swampert|Swampert]] 17:10, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
::::I see. I noticed that Dialga and Palkia is written as 迪亚鲁卡 and 帕鲁奇亚 (as opposed to 帝牙卢卡 and 帕路奇犽) on the website. Is it a mistake or is it the new official names for mainland China? Also, do you mind linking to the forum you mentioned? --<font color="#2B547E">'''神</font><font color="#F8D030">電</font><font color="#990000">の</font>[[User:神奇超龍|<font color="#0B0BA6">超龍</font>]]「'''[[User talk:神奇超龍|對話]]'''」''' 18:24, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
:::::I think it should be a mistake 'cause there's no reason to change it, and other names appeared on anime or manga are all kept the same. It was posted [http://bbs.saraba1st.com/2b/read-htm-tid-694570-page-2.html here] (mutliple posts by jerry851209) and re-arranged [http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=1120749045 here]. --[[User:Swampert|Swampert]] 02:36, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

[http://www.dm1999.com/News_View.asp?NewsID=63&page=1 Here] is a interview of the director Zhang Lili. The reason of name-changing is that many companies registered 神奇宝贝(magical creatures) or 宠物小精灵(pet elf) trademarks of some areas (even most areas of 神奇宝贝 and 宠物小精灵 are registered by Nintendo, there're some areas like shoes, umbrellas, lamps are registered by other companies). The script is actually changed from the Taiwan version. Some translations are also changed, like 超极冲击(Giga Impact, literally super and extreme tackle) to 超级冲击(literally super tackle). I still cannot understand why they think 地方(Regions) should be changed to 地区. But most translations would keep the same. BTW, Dynamic Media is licensed by {{wp|Shogakukan|ShoPro}}, who also license Doraemon to them. --[[User:Swampert|Swampert]] 12:53, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

:So, the name change was due to trademark issues. I guess they can't do anything about it. I do find some of those changes unnecessary. Hope they would at least change the ones that are mistranslated ({{tt|兆幅音频|Megahorn}}, {{tt|疯狂机器|Frenzy Plant}}, {{tt|波动弹|Aura Sphere}}, etc.) --<font color="#2B547E">'''神</font><font color="#F8D030">電</font><font color="#990000">の</font>[[User:神奇超龍|<font color="#0B0BA6">超龍</font>]]「'''[[User talk:神奇超龍|對話]]'''」''' 13:27, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

== Romanization... ==

Okay, I'm getting really annoyed with this. The article, and its talk page, mentions and lists every single thing in hanzi. It may not be my place to say this, but this is an English wiki, the hanzi should be replaced with the romanization equivalent, for the very least... [[User:Rai Marshall|Rai Marshall]] 06:52, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
:Well, if you can replace it, go for it. Otherwise the hanzi seem good for now. --[[Special:Contributions/CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#00AF33;">'''☆'''</span>]][[User:CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#0098d9;">'''Cool'''</span>]][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|<span style="color:#F8D030;">'''Pikachu!'''</span>]] 07:39, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

::I can't, I don't know the first thing about Chinese. [[User:Rai Marshall|Rai Marshall]] 18:19, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

==TCG==
Guys, the card section is incorrect. The sets have never been released in mainland china, and certainly not in simplified Chinese. The only sets released in Chinese were: Base Set (1st edition and unlimited), EX Legend Maker, including the plusle and minun decks (2006, Taiwan), and a set of promos released in the Taipei pokepark. There is also the reprint of the Jungle Pikachu for the Pikachu world collection. I have no idea how to edit here, so here's an article I wrote on the Chinese cards. It's not letting me post a link to it here as the captcha isn't loading. You can find their article on efour proboards forum. (Joe) {{unsigned|Zhongwen}}
:I am guessing you mean this [http://efour.proboards.com/thread/4936/chinese-pok-mon-cards link]? Also the Chinese names of the decks and sets should be added to the other languages section on their equivalent English pages. '''[[User:Lady Ariel|<span style="color:magenta">Lady</span>]] [[User talk:Lady Ariel|<span style="color:orange">Ariel</span>]]''' 22:09, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

== Split ==

Since they both use different translations and are different countries, I feel the information on this article would be easier to understand if it was split into seperate pages for Hong Kong and Taiwan. [[User:Mr. Daikon|Mr. Daikon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Daikon|talk]]) 21:44, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

:Translations have been mostly unified since the release of Sun and Moon. In addition, there's a bit of a shared language and history among the regions, hence it's treated similar to [[Pokémon in Latin America|Latin America]], [[Pokémon in South Asia|South Asia]], and the [[Pokémon in the Arab world|Arab world]]. --[[User:神奇超龍|<font color="#2B547E">'''超龍'''</font>]]<sub><small>「'''[[User talk:神奇超龍|Chao]]'''」</small></sub> 01:53, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

::I agree with this. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 03:12, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

::: I do find it interesting that this logic isn't applied to western countries. For example, Norway, Sweden, and Denmark all get their own pages despite their similarities. But the main reason I think they should be split is because as the article currently stands, it goes back and forth between Taiwan and Hong Kong, and is poorly written as a result. If the information was split in multiple pages, it would be easier to understand, as at least for the long time, the Pokémon ftanchise was handled differently in the two countries. Thus, I think the two are deserving of their own pages. [[User:Mr. Daikon|Mr. Daikon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Daikon|talk]]) 04:16, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

::::Do remember: "'''there's a bit of a shared language and history among the regions.'''" Norway, Sweden, and Denmark have always been their own countries. They even have their own languages. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:20, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

::::: Firstly, Norway, Sweden, and Denmark have been unified at various points in history, and their languages are very similar. Secondly, in Hong Kong they speak Cantonese, while in Taiwan they speak Mandarin. Please do your research before making arguments like this. [[User:Mr. Daikon|Mr. Daikon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Daikon|talk]]) 04:24, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

::::::But they're no longer unified and the languages still have their own names. The similarities don't matter. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:28, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

:::::::By that logic, since Taiwan and Hong Kong "are no longer unified", and their languages "still have their own names", then "the similarities don't matter". [[User:Mr. Daikon|Mr. Daikon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Daikon|talk]]) 04:30, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

::::::::But Taiwan is called a state, while Hong Kong is called a special administrative region. That's totally different from being an individual country. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:32, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

:::::::::Firstly, Taiwan is completely independent from the rest of China, while Hong Kong is largely autonomous (have you been paying attention to the protests?). Secondly, whether or not they are countries per se has nothing to do with this discussion, North Korea is a country but it's not getting an article. The argument is whether they have enough differences that they should have seperate pages, and I believe they do. And these differences discussed should not be with regards to language or culture (otherwise the US and Canada would have the same page) but rather how the Pokémon franchise was handled in the two areas. [[User:Mr. Daikon|Mr. Daikon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Daikon|talk]]) 04:41, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

::::::::::They're still not being considered countries, though. I would sing a different tune if independence was officially declared for both in the world. And yes, I am aware of the Hong Kong protests. As for North Korea, there is '''''no''''' Pokémon at all in that country, hence why there's no article for it. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:48, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

:::::::::::They are both autonomous enough that whether or not they are technically countries is of no concern. Both are run by completely different governments anyway. I am going to stop this argument right now, unless you can give me one reason as to whether or not Taiwan and Hong Kong should be considered a country (which they both fit the definition of well) has any relevance to whether or not they should get their own pages. [[User:Mr. Daikon|Mr. Daikon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Daikon|talk]]) 04:56, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

::::::::::::In your opinion. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:58, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

== Romanisation of Hong Kong and Taiwan voice actor names ==

It seems very strange to see Yale Cantonese romanisation for the Hong Kong voice actor names in this article when there there is another romanisation commonly used in Hong Kong personal names that is more or less similar to {{wp|Hong Kong Government Cantonese Romanisation}}.
Likewise, the Pinyin romanisation for Taiwan names instead of Wade-Giles that is commonly used for Taiwanese personal names.

Should they be replaced accordingly? I have a [[User:Zywxn/Pokémon_in_Greater_China|draft]] started for the Hong Kong names and included English names (e.g. Kathryn Lin) copied from Chinese Wikipedia for Taiwan voice actors.

— <b>[[User:Zywxn|<span style="color:#FF6600">Zywxn</span>]]</b> 13:58, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
:Personal names are a bit of a gray zone here with the policy for foreign names is still under works. Pinyin and Yale were simply used as the default method of romanization. It's like Hepburn for Japanese and Revised Romanization for Korean, even with the tendencies of the names to use older romanization methods such as Nihon-Shiki for the former and McCune–Reischauer for the latter. If there are existing spellings preferred by the voice actors, those should be used instead, but the Western names does make things a little more complicated. --[[User:神奇超龍|<font color="#2B547E">'''超龍'''</font>]]<sub><small>「'''[[User talk:神奇超龍|Chao]]'''」</small></sub> 05:52, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

== Title of article ==

Unfortunately, the term "Greater China" has become politically sensitive (or even politically offensive) over the last few years or so, in contrast to when this article was created. It is literally identical to "all territory that the Chinese government wants to annex and call 'China'". In this regard, it's similar to the political term "Greater Russia" which refers to Russia plus the four or five other places whose territory it has seized, doesn't recognize, and would like to unite. The page cannot stay with this name.

On splitting:
* The easiest way to answer this question while sidestepping politics is to look at what TPC considers to be a single market. For example, the various countries of Latin America are considered to be a single market (they are usually marketed to identically and share a page on e.g. SwSh's official website), while mainland China is definitely not a single market next to Hong Kong and Taiwan.
* Another way to think about it is if the pages were already split, how much advocacy would there be to merge them? If we split Latin America into subpages, many of them would look extremely similar and become merge candidates. If we split this page, the resulting pages are very different.

[[User:Blueapple128|Blueapple128]] ([[User talk:Blueapple128|talk]]) 03:10, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
:<nowiki>{{ping|Blueapple128}}</nowiki> Hello, I OPPOSE your idea here, as this may cause editors of [[Pokémon in Germany]] angry, where that page also mentions something (eventually, 35% of that article) about Austria, Switzerland and Liechtenstein (are you asking them to also split parts of that article to be [[Pokémon in Austria]]? [[Pokémon in Switzerland]]? [[Pokémon in Liechtenstein]]?) --[[User:Liuxinyu970226|Liuxinyu970226]] ([[User talk:Liuxinyu970226|talk]]) 05:41, 17 June 2023 (UTC)