View source for Talk:Pokémon Champion

==Archives==
This article was merged with "Champion (Trainer class)" on 25 Nov., 2010. Further pre-merge discussion may be found [[Talk:Champion (Trainer class)|here]]. &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 10:57, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

==Title defence==
"''It is assumed that the Champion must defend their title against challengers, although this is never explicitly stated.''"

What about when you fight Blue in R/B. They say he's the champion, then you have to fight him to become champion, you beat him and oh noes he is no longer the top-dog. That looks to me like a title defence. - [[User:Ferret|Ferret]] 03:39, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

As someone else noted in another article - the problem with that is FireRed and LeafGreen alone - where when you fight the Elite Four the second time (and in terms of the story - they recognize it's the second time, too) and Blue is the champion agian. - Zeta

That is a problem. But to me that would say that in the game, that it's possible to have more than one champion at the same time, no? Or maybe Game Freak just screwed up. Maybe the translators screwed up, does the original Japanese version share the same not-champion, now-chamption mixup? - [[User:Ferret|Ferret]] 03:56, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

What I don't understand is why, in the games, the main goals are: catch all Pokémon, and '''BECOME THE CHAMPION'''. Yet when you beat the Elite Four/Champion, you can go back and re-chalenge the Champion, even though the game '''says''' you are the Champ, and the Champion has the same speech and is called '''"Champion''' *blank*". It is a '''HUGE''' loophole in the games. Why not retire the old Champ or have them say that you are the Champ now in their pre-battle speech? [[User:GuyNamedSean|GuyNamedSean]] 02:29, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
:[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GameplayAndStorySegregation Sometimes things that should happen don't, because it's a game. It's better if there's a always high-level opponent that you can challenge at any time]. Because of that, they're not going to ''retire'' the game champ. But not changing the speech? Yeah, that's laziness. Apparently you're supposed to make the assumption that the game champion immediately sweeps the Elite Four again once you leave?--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] <small>•</small> [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 04:13, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

== Obvious rename ==

Let's rename this to "Pokémon League Champion"; "Pokémon champion" sounds like it is describing someone who is a champion at something else, like contests or Battle Tower. In other words, Pokémon League Champion=moreo specifico. [[User:PH1RESTRIKE|PH1RESTRIKE]] 02:11, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

== Oak ==

Didn't proffesser oak win the first pokemon league in the pokespe manga?<small>- ''unsigned comment from {{u|Lunick v sonela}} ([[User talk:Lunick v sonela|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lunick v sonela|contribs]]) ''</small>

Sorry.Lunick v sonela 17:12, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

== Sprite ==

Should we have a section regarding the sprites of the Champions? [[User:Ht14|<span style="color:#B69E00"><sup>'''''ht'''''</sup></span>]][[User talk:Ht14|<span style="color:#E1E1E1"><small>''14''</small></span>]]<sup><span style="color:#4FD9FF;">★</span></sup> 23:23, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
:That's on the article for the [[Champion]] trainer class. &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 23:24, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
::Right... [[User:Ht14|<span style="color:#B69E00"><sup>'''''ht'''''</sup></span>]][[User talk:Ht14|<span style="color:#E1E1E1"><small>''14''</small></span>]]<sup><span style="color:#4FD9FF;">★</span></sup> 23:26, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

== to merge ==

I vote for merging--[[User:Branfili|Branfili]] 04:51, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
:Does anyone actually opose the merge? And if so why? These pages are about the same thing. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 13:19, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
::I also vote for merging, and that the Trainer Class page should be removed. The new page should be named "Pokémon Champion". 'Coz I dun see a "Boss (Trainer class)" page. The sprites in the Trainer class should be moved to the "In the games" section. -- [[User:Ruixiang95|Ruixiang95]] 13:19, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
:::OK then. Due to absolutely no objection on either talk page, and absolutely no clear reason to have the pages separate, I'm going to combine these pages like Gym Leader was. While the page will be here, it should really be at "Pokémon Champion"—I have checked the games and it is a proper noun. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 08:01, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

== Red ==
Wasn't he explicitly stated as a champion? He took Blue out of his role and became champion for a period. Shouldn't he be stated, for the games? [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 17:33, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
:True, but he is already covered by "* {{player|The player}} of [[Pallet Town]], [[New Bark Town]], [[Littleroot Town]], or [[Twinleaf Town]] (depending) - All games, once defeating the previous Champion". --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 10:04, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

== N? ==

Isn't N technically the champion for a short time? He beat Alder, and then is defeated by the player. [[User:Sennen Goroshi|Sennen Goroshi]] 01:48, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
:Reviving since I just got to that point in the game, and yeah, Alder lost to N, so wouldn't he technically count as a Champion? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 17:32, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Well not nessciarily (sorry for the spelling ) but the battle they had wasn't an "official" battle because he would have to beat the elite four and be "eligible" (get 8 or more badges)  to even get a chance at the title.--[[User:Glalie Power|Glalie Power]] ([[User talk:Glalie Power|talk]]) 23:51, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

== Picture? ==

I uploaded a picture of the six main series Champions' official art arranged to have them standing in a group. The revision of this page that included the picture was almost instantaneously undone and the uploaded file was subsequently deleted (due to not being currently in use on any page). So, tempted though I am, before I take matters back into my own hands: Would such a picture be a good addition to the page?
[[User:Alderryeguy|Alderryeguy]] 01:21, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
:I'm not sure. You should talk to somebody that is in charge of the archives. They would know why it was deleted. :--[[User:SuperAipom7|<span style="color:orange">SuperAipom7</span>]] <small>''([[User talk:SuperAipom7|<span style="color:blue">Questions?</span>]])''</small> 01:42, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
::I deleted it because of the following reasons:
:::1) Not a good job with the cropping.
:::2) It's a mix of the existing pictures in Archives.
:::3) We don't really need them mixed, if you want their picture, then just go to the article of said Champion.
:::4) The quality varies, I'm not sure it should be an option to do this now.
::I (again) appreciate your concern, but I for one think we should let this one pass. [[User:Masatoshi|<span style="color: #224a9a"><b><span style="color: #2b5fc7">M</span>asatoshi</b></span>]][[User_talk:Masatoshi|<span style="color: #118eb2"><sub><small>''talk''</small></sub></span>]] 04:18, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

== Anime Champions ==

Was it ever mentioned that winning the Pokémon League makes you that region's Champion in the anime? Tobias and Cynthia seem to be extremely different cases. In fact, I would think that winning the league would allow access to the Champion League, which as far as I understand it, is an invite-only tournament for Elite Four members, the regional Champion, and probably "Sinnoh League Victors" to compete in. That is speculation, but so is assuming that winning the league automatically makes them the Champion. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 11:14, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
:No from what I remember in the anime Ash only got a cup when he won a League. It seems like a yearly event. Then next year another winner is crowned and given the cup. I dunno if they obtain the title of "Champion". Also the definition of "Champion" in the anime has not been explained well. All they keep saying is that they are the best trainer in the region yet. They don't seem to have any special role with the Pokemon League unlike the Gym Leaders (Cynthia is an example).  [[User:Blueknightex|Blueknightex]] 11:06, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

== All champions' music remixed. ==

It says that [[Blue (game)|Blue]]'s Champion music was remixed for B/W (and it was) for the battle with the "top trainer" of the Battle Subway. My problem with this is: define "top trainer." [[User:Pokered4000|Pokered4000]] 03:07, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

== VS Banners ==

I believe this page should use the VS Banner sprites for the pictures.  I have a few reasons.  One, they were used when the Champions were on the Elite Four page, and two, this will make them match the Gym Leaders, Elite Four, and Frontier Brains pages.  (Also, I know that Steven and Wallace don't have VS Banners, but hopefully they will eventually.)  Also on a somewhat related note, the Champion page should be added to The Pokemon League box that has links to all the main articles about the Gym Leaders, Elite Four, etc.  I was not sure where to post that so I put it here.  So if someone that can would be so kind as to do those things, I would really appreciate it.  If you have any reasons as to why it shouldn't be done also I'd be interested to hear them.
[[User:CoolDudeAl|CoolDudeAl]] ([[User talk:CoolDudeAl|talk]]) 20:11, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

==Pokémon Champions in Adventures==
Shouldn't Cynthia and Alder be included? In [[PS431|Different Dimensions Battle I]] Cynthia's grandmother scolds her for thinking that becoming a Champion means one doesn't need to train anymore. And Alder is the reigning Champion (at least according to Black). [[User:Ariano|Ariano]] ([[User talk:Ariano|talk]]) 19:40, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

== Is Red a Champion? ==

''"In {{2v2|Black|White}}, Cynthia tells the player that once every few years, the Champions from all the regions come together and battle to find the strongest among them. In the [[Pokémon World Tournament]] in {{2v2|Black|White|2}}, which takes place 2 years later, all the Champions the player battles in previous games participate in the tournament, '''as well as {{ga|Red}}'''."''

This contradicts the table below, as this part of the sentence implies Red is not a Champion. The table has Red included, even though it implies he is not in that sentence. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 03:18, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Something from a random NPC inside of a house in Viridian City from HGSS:

''You go all over the place and battle all kinds of Trainers. This is not just to train your Pokémon. This is also a chance too experience many things yourself. I bet the '''Champion from Pallet Town''' went to all the cities and towns in Kanto.''

He's clearly talking about Red, since in the remake they don't keep things about Red secret like in the original GSC, and just the fact that he's in the Champions Tournament of the World Tournament should tell you even more that he is a Champion. [[User:Lamarfll|Lamarfll]] ([[User talk:Lamarfll|talk]]) 02:09, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

-- Red as Champion --

I think we can all establish the fact that there is canon evidence to support Red being Champion (eg. HG/SS reference, actual Champion title given, he can be fought, etc.). However, the only problem I have with this piece of information as it is would be the location. Red shouldn't be under Indigo Plateau, rather it should be Mt. Silver because he is not fought in Indigo Plateau itself. He shouldn't be categorized with Blue and Lance.