General Name
This is one of those "group a whole bunch of things that are vaguely related into a single article" things. These probably shouldn't have very "namey" names. I suggest "Pokémon wearing clothing" to be as broad and general as the article is trying to be, Salmancer (talk) 18:35, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, I created this article with the name "Clothed Pokémon" and then it was moved to "Costumed Pokémon".
- You know, I was also considering that "Pokémon clothing" could be a good name for this article, but there's already the existing Pokémon clothing which is for real-life things like the Pokémon shirts that people can wear.
- In my opinion, both "Clothed Pokémon" or "Pokémon wearing clothing" look good. If they are basically the same concept, maybe we can try using "Clothed Pokémon" again since it's a bit shorter?
- I see that the wording "Costumed Pokémon" is good for full-body costumes at least... but I wonder if maybe this terminology does not always apply to simpler things like a Pokémon wearing a hat in all kinds of games and other media. There's a Psyduck wearing a necktie in Pokémon Channel. Should we call it a costumed Psyduck? --Daniel Carrero (talk) 19:42, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- I'm good with either Clothed Pokémon or Pokémon wearing clothing. Landfish7 19:53, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- I suppose I should have checked the move summary. If Costumed Pokémon is the term used in GO, despite the clothing often being hats and accessories, then I think it makes sense to use that term? I suppose you could counter that perhaps that term should only apply to GO, but idk, if it's the closest thing we have to an official term, it might be fine as is? Ultimately, even if the official term isn't a great term, it's still the official term. So it really just depends on if we see Costumed Pokémon as the official overarching term for all Pokémon wearing clothes, or whether we feel this article's scope is broader than that. Hope any of this made sense, anyway :P Landfish7 21:11, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- I really don't think that's a good idea. Does a Pokémon become a Costumed Pokémon by holding a Prop, and cease being a Costumed Pokémon the minute it takes those Props off? The TCG section is covering a whole bunch of unrelated cards that probably don't want a name over their collective heads. (Ash's Pikachu & Pikachu with Grey Felt Hat & Special Delivery Pikachu, oh my! And I only stuck to English releases.) Doesn't this page want to cover the Best Buddy Ribbon in GO, which is physically worn yet unrelated to the Event Pokemon (and by proxy, the Costumed Pokemon) mechanics? Long story short, the GO name refers to GO's own systems, and trying to extrapolate those systems onto a zillion other things is imposing order on a system that does not have one. (As well as contradicting GO itself if Best Buddy Ribbon goes on this page.) Let the article just be a hub of all the times Pokemon have clothes. Either "Clothed Pokemon" or "Pokemon wearing clothes" works, but I would rather the latter and the idea of saving words probably doesn't mean much when this article probably goes in a navigation box somewhere. Salmancer (talk) 22:06, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- If this page stays at "Costumed Pokémon", there has to be a split for the sake of the Best Buddy Ribbon. My call:
- "Costumed Pokémon" is for Pokémon with clothes "baked in" to their character design.
- Pikachu in a cap, Cosplay Pikachu, Detective Pikachu, all TCG cards except for ones wearing things that are Tools/other items, Costumed Pokémon (GO), Armored Mewtwo, etc.
- "Clothes for Pokémon" is for articles of clothing that are added to Pokémon.
- Holowear, Props, Accessories, Smash Bros alts excluding Pikachu Libre, Best Buddy Ribbon, TCG cards that have Tools/other items visible, Serena's Pokémon during Showcases, etc. (Held Items that are conceptually clothing I guess?)
- I'd rather not have a split page, but this categorization does work at first glance and keeps Best Buddy Ribbon away from Costumed Pokémon. The edge case is Ash's Squirtle, but I believe that is seen without glasses enough that the character likely does not have the glasses "baked in" and goes on "Clothes for Pokémon" while the Squad and the GO Costumed Pokémon based on the Squad go on "Costumed Pokémon" Ash's Pikachu fuzzes things, but I think it can be declared a special exception since Masters describes it as changing forms, and therfore goes on both pages. Salmancer (talk) 03:01, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
- In Pokémon GO, it appears that several kinds of terms like "costumed", "wearing costumes", "in costumes", "Event" or "event" refer to these Pokémon wearing clothes. I checked the details and created a new page: Terminology of Event Pokémon (GO).
- So it doesn't look like "Costumed Pokémon" is the single official term for this, there are more like a bunch of costume-related descriptive terms.
- The Japanese dialogue often uses 着飾きか, which apparently can be translated as "dressed-up".
- I think either "Clothed Pokémon" or "Pokémon wearing clothes" would work as a generic name which encompasses all Pokémon GO costumes but goes beyond to other kinds of clothing in other media too. A Pokémon wearing a hat or necktie in any media is usually not officially referred to as "costumed Pokémon".
- Anyhow, I don't think there's a need to split this article into two different ways that Pokémon wear clothing like Salmancer was saying. I think it's nice to have an article for them all together. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 06:06, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- I think a large weakness of that terminology page, and something being left out here, is the frequency of the term "costumed Pokémon" coming up compared to the others. They aren't on equal level. Here's even an example where "Pikachu with Holiday Attire" (and thus, other similar named things) is considered a "costumed Pokémon". And with the concept not being exclusive to Pokemon Go (Think the many different costumed plush, other merchandise items, and the mascot characters) there needs to be a generic page synthesizing all of those directly related things. I'm generally in favor of the split proposed by Salmancer. I think the content needs to be adapted a little to fit the title "Clothes for Pokémon", but I really think that's an ideal title for this concept and solution to this page. MaverickNate 10:03, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- That being said, I don't think there can't be crossover between the pages. This would be less of a traditional "split" and more be moving this page to "Clothes for Pokémon", adapting the content to make sure it's all appropriate, and then ensuring the creation of media-agnostic "Costumed Pokémon" overview page. MaverickNate 10:11, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- Alright, I think I can agree with the idea of having a page like "Clothes for Pokémon" for all kinds of clothes and also a separate page for the Pokémon forms that wear clothing.
- However, I would rather call the latter something like "List of Pokémon forms wearing clothes" instead of "Costumed Pokémon". I assume perhaps the page for clothed Pokémon forms would include the event Pokémon from GO as well as the Cosplay Pikachu and Pikachu with a cap at least.
- You see, I'm not convinced so far about the notion that "Costumed Pokémon" works as the official term for all the clothed Pokémon forms in all media. Is the Cosplay Pikachu an officially named "Costumed Pokémon" in ORAS?
- Maverick Nate, did you try to use that linked page as an example of "Costumed Pokémon" being the most common term in Pokémon GO? That page uses "Event-themed Pokémon" (4 times) more often than "Costumed Pokémon" (3 times).
- That page uses the word "costumed" referring specifically to "Psyduck wearing holiday attire", "Pikachu wearing holiday attire", and "Raichu wearing holiday attire". That page says nowhere that other Pokémon such as "Spheal wearing a holiday scarf" might be called costumed Pokémon, although I understand that could arguably be implied from the context. We could even make the point that wearing a holiday scarf is not a full costume, but to be fair the so-called "holiday attire" of other Pokémon is often just something on the neck and a hat anyways.
- I don't think we can claim so far that "costumed" is the main term in Pokémon GO as opposed to "event" or "event-themed", much less in all kinds of other media. That would appear tenuous at best, at least with the sources we have so far.
- Incidentally, the form name does not even seem to appear in the summary from Pokémon GO, or else we might try to check if any form has "Costumed" in the name. But if you catch something like a Party Hat Charmander, the summary still just says "Charmander", right? (correct me if I'm wrong)
- Even in official websites like that, the form names like "Psyduck wearing holiday attire" don't seem to use the word "costumed" in their form names; they often simply use "wearing" referring to the piece of clothing instead.
- That said, I would not mind editing and improving that terminology page further to better account for the frequency of each term when compared to others. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 06:07, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Maverick Nate, did you try to use that linked page as an example of "Costumed Pokémon" being the most common term in Pokémon GO? That page uses "Event-themed Pokémon" (4 times) more often than "Costumed Pokémon" (3 times).
- I think you're misreading that page. "Event-themed" in that context is saying that the Pokémon encounters are based on the event, not that "event-themed" is a synonym for "costumed". For example, notice this sentence: "Event-themed Pokémon encounters, such as Spheal wearing a holiday scarf, Cryogonal, and the first peek at a new costumed Pokémon—Psyduck wearing holiday attire!" While most of the event-themed encounters are costumed Pokémon (just due to the nature of the event), notice that Cryogonal is also included among the event-themed encounters despite it not having a costume. Likewise, there's a mention of an "event-themed avatar pose". When the page wants to specifically refer to Pokémon wearing costumes, it calls them "costumed Pokémon". As far as I can tell from reading several pokemongolive.com articles, "event-themed" is never used to refer to Pokémon wearing costumes specifically, only Pokémon that are related to a particular event (which due to the nature of GO often involves costumes, but most event-themed Pokémon do not wear costumes).
- In the Pokémon GO UI (when transferring Pokémon and on the recommended searches page), the game uses the term "event Pokémon", but pokemongolive.com seems to exclusively use "costumed Pokémon"—the only usages of "event Pokémon" I could find actually referred to event-themed Pokémon, not costumed Pokémon. My interpretation is that "costumed Pokémon" is a subset of "event Pokémon", because "event Pokémon" includes the M01 Clone Pokémon (which are not costumed Pokémon). pokemongolive.com prefers to use the term "costumed Pokémon" because it's much clearer what they mean ("event Pokémon" is much more intuitively interpreted as "event-themed", as demonstrated by the linked articles)—and outside of the Clone Pokémon, I think every current event Pokémon is a "costumed Pokémon". --SnorlaxMonster 13:31, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, thank you for checking the usage of those terms. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 14:05, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- That being said, I don't think there can't be crossover between the pages. This would be less of a traditional "split" and more be moving this page to "Clothes for Pokémon", adapting the content to make sure it's all appropriate, and then ensuring the creation of media-agnostic "Costumed Pokémon" overview page. MaverickNate 10:11, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- I think a large weakness of that terminology page, and something being left out here, is the frequency of the term "costumed Pokémon" coming up compared to the others. They aren't on equal level. Here's even an example where "Pikachu with Holiday Attire" (and thus, other similar named things) is considered a "costumed Pokémon". And with the concept not being exclusive to Pokemon Go (Think the many different costumed plush, other merchandise items, and the mascot characters) there needs to be a generic page synthesizing all of those directly related things. I'm generally in favor of the split proposed by Salmancer. I think the content needs to be adapted a little to fit the title "Clothes for Pokémon", but I really think that's an ideal title for this concept and solution to this page. MaverickNate 10:03, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- I really don't think that's a good idea. Does a Pokémon become a Costumed Pokémon by holding a Prop, and cease being a Costumed Pokémon the minute it takes those Props off? The TCG section is covering a whole bunch of unrelated cards that probably don't want a name over their collective heads. (Ash's Pikachu & Pikachu with Grey Felt Hat & Special Delivery Pikachu, oh my! And I only stuck to English releases.) Doesn't this page want to cover the Best Buddy Ribbon in GO, which is physically worn yet unrelated to the Event Pokemon (and by proxy, the Costumed Pokemon) mechanics? Long story short, the GO name refers to GO's own systems, and trying to extrapolate those systems onto a zillion other things is imposing order on a system that does not have one. (As well as contradicting GO itself if Best Buddy Ribbon goes on this page.) Let the article just be a hub of all the times Pokemon have clothes. Either "Clothed Pokemon" or "Pokemon wearing clothes" works, but I would rather the latter and the idea of saving words probably doesn't mean much when this article probably goes in a navigation box somewhere. Salmancer (talk) 22:06, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- I suppose I should have checked the move summary. If Costumed Pokémon is the term used in GO, despite the clothing often being hats and accessories, then I think it makes sense to use that term? I suppose you could counter that perhaps that term should only apply to GO, but idk, if it's the closest thing we have to an official term, it might be fine as is? Ultimately, even if the official term isn't a great term, it's still the official term. So it really just depends on if we see Costumed Pokémon as the official overarching term for all Pokémon wearing clothes, or whether we feel this article's scope is broader than that. Hope any of this made sense, anyway :P Landfish7 21:11, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- I'm good with either Clothed Pokémon or Pokémon wearing clothing. Landfish7 19:53, 17 February 2024 (UTC)