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Talk:List of unused Pokémon and character designs (view source)

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::::Does anyone know the exact date when Bellossom's GS artwork was released? If it was after its first anime appearance (where it was green), it could be worth mentioning the contradiction. <small><span style="color:white; background-color:#007FFF">'''X'''</span>[[User:Vuvuzela2010|<span style="color:#007FFF; background-color:white">'''Vuvuzela2010''']]</span><span style="color:white; background-color:#007FFF">'''X'''</span></small> 12:07, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
::::Does anyone know the exact date when Bellossom's GS artwork was released? If it was after its first anime appearance (where it was green), it could be worth mentioning the contradiction. <small><span style="color:white; background-color:#007FFF">'''X'''</span>[[User:Vuvuzela2010|<span style="color:#007FFF; background-color:white">'''Vuvuzela2010''']]</span><span style="color:white; background-color:#007FFF">'''X'''</span></small> 12:07, 6 July 2011 (UTC)


We should probably add wynaut
== Buizel ==
--
 
I remember I saw once a scan of a magazine released before the release of D&P showing a black siloutte of Buizel with two "collars" instead of one. If I find it again may this added to this page? Also the Unnamed turtle actually have legs, it isn't "just a head sticking out of a shell". --[[User:SamuStar|SamuStar]] 16:27, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 
== Altered human designs ==
 
There's a template for Altered Pokemon Designs, so why not for the humans? I can think of a few who received design overhauls.. As said Silver's hair was shorter in the concept art, Kris seems to have gotten a design overhaul from the beta to the main product, and that seems to be Red in the Capsule Monster sketches. [[User:Dia Sprite|Dia Sprite]] 23:52, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 
== Who are this Pokemon? ==
 
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/3706/45234089orgv1315354262.jpg
 
Seriously... Who? I thought the fish was Basculin but the name does not match, then we have that... Siloutte thing next to Deerling that does not match any of the forms of neither Deerling or Sawsbuck, Alomomola design is noticeable different (and shares traits with Luvdisc: Shape, "blush sticker" and mouth, I think it was once planned to be an evolution) and Pansage is fat.
 
I also noticed the battle sprites are similar to those of Generation IV, same half-body back-sprites.
 
Found [http://photozou.jp/photo/show/761853/45234089 here]. [[User:LurKasumi|LurKasumi]] 09:18, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
:That image was a hoax from the Japanese Black and White pre-release period. - [[User:Kogoro|<span style="color:#DA70D6;">'''<span class="sc">Kogoro</span>'''</span>]] '''-''' [[User talk:Kogoro|<span style="color:#FFB6C1;">'''<span class="sc">Talk to me</span>'''</span>]] - 09:28, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
:: Oh derp, thanks. [[User:LurKasumi|LurKasumi]] 09:35, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
 
== Additions ==
 
Here's a [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Chickasaurus whole bunch of stuff to add] for someone who has the time to add it in. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|<span style="color:yellow; background-color:purple">'''Vuvuzela2010''']]</span>[[Koffing (Pokémon)|<span style="color:yellow; background-color:purple"> ☠]]</span> 19:36, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
:I plan on adding these soon. They supposedly originated on Game Freak's blog in one of the archived posts, though I wasn't able to find it; I read about it as a recent addition on the Japanese Pokémon Wiki, and I believe its been [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/members/1970/30491/index6.html considered] before about adding these when SmearglePaints ({{user|Redstar}}) brought it up on the forums last year.
 
:There is a [http://hakuda2.web.fc2.com/ir/poke4/trust.html Japanese website] focusing on lost Pokémon which hosts that artwork and has further information about more Generation II lost Pokémon other than the three 'starters' and variations (namely 'Akua', 'Akueria', 'Netamon' and 'Elekingu') which were apparently seen in the [[Nintendo World|Nintendo Space World 1997]] demo but had only their names shown. The Japanese Pokémon Wiki also had these and more variations which none of the other sources mention, though I don't know of the validity. I uploaded the Japanese Pokémon Blue artwork because of some of the ambiguous designs, I don't know if they should count though. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 20:58, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 
::The recent images added are fan drawings, not official artwork of any kind. As such they should be removed. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 02:31, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:::Oh ok, is that right? I'm wondering then where the author ([http://hakuda2.web.fc2.com/ir/poke4/trust.html ボツポケモン応援隊]) originally got the concept from. I know of some [http://bbs.tgbus.com/viewthread.php?action=printable&tid=1932117 sprites of them] but I'm unsure of their legitimacy. I heard that these Pokémon were shown on Game Freak's website but I haven't been able to find an archived version of the original page yet. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 13:33, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
::::The sprite sheet is fully legitimate. I'd have to ask my friend the exact place it was found, which provided information on when they were secured, but I'd say there's enough sources to indicate this as a legitimate find. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 08:07, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 
== Pocket Monsters Blue designs  ==
 
"Near the bottom right is a Pokémon face, possibly based on Nidorino." It looks like Pidgeotto to me--[[User:SamuStar|SamuStar]] 18:35, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
:Not that one...the one to the left and up. '''[[User:LimeGreenCharizard|<span style="color:#008000;">LimeGreen</span>]]''[[User talk:LimeGreenCharizard|<span style="color:#FF8C00;">Charizard</span>]]'''''[[Special:Contributions/LimeGreenCharizard|<span style="color:#00BFFF;">♂</span>]] 19:57, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
Now I see, thank you. At first it looked like Venomoth to me, but it's surely Nidorino (or at least Nidoran♂) --[[User:SamuStar|SamuStar]] 20:15, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 
== Some early designs  ==
 
Early artwork on the pocket monsters cardass trading cards page shows a pikachu with a white belly and large execute with small ones the designs are the same as what they looked like in there red blue and green sprites so i think they should be on this page because the kakuna and rhyhorn with the same story are on there. Also there is a graveler with golden fingures on that page too.
[[User:Kybett98|Kybett98]] 04:45, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
:Someone should probably add the Carddass Charmander and the early back sprites for him, since the card shows his now-unexistant ridges down his back.[[User:Mefredbob|Mefredbob]] 09:41, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Oh yes i never noticed him i saw that the ones i requested where added but have now been removed why? {{unsigned|Kybett98}}
 
== Unnamed Turtle ==
 
I think the unnamed turtle could be a Pokémon with no roots in any other Pokémon, meaning it was originally going to be a seperate Pokémon but was completely scrapped, and perhaps it was related to Kurusu. Can anyone shoot me down with fact?
[[User:Shinyzubat123|Shinyzubat123]] 21:30, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 
== Even more designs ==
 
Recently, this year [http://bbs.tgbus.com/viewthread.php?action=printable&tid=1932117 users on TGBUS] revealed a few more designs, and annotated some of the existing ones in English e.g. "The inside of a hotel. You can see a device for healing your Pokémon inside". I've seen the former sprites (below) on 2chan, but was unsure of its legitimacy, since its marked December 1997. It would be most appreciated if someone could translate it. I have heard that Nyosuka and others were mentioned once on Gamefreak's official Japanese website, but I can't find the original page and I'm unsure if images of them were ever officially revealed. Sorry, if that's a lot to ask for though.
*[http://17woo.tgbusdata.cn/month_1101/11011600533674699a45d777f6.jpg Sprites]
*[http://17woo.tgbusdata.cn/month_1101/11011600397a98e2b81ee3b0b7.jpg Kabīn] --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 13:22, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
:The sprite list featuring the early designs for the Poliwhirl, Weedle and Dratini lines are indeed official. A friend of mine discovered them several months ago on a blog by someone who salvaged them back in 1999. My friend also has an English translation for the text seen within the image. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 06:26, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
::Do you mean this [http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/page/1 blog]? I came across it later last Wednesday when doing an image search of the artwork. I once saw the images on 2chan, but I thought they were probably fake and confused them with the fan artwork on [http://hakuda2.web.fc2.com/ir/poke4/trust.html The Lost Pokémon]. The [http://wiki.xn--rckteqa2e.com/wiki/%E6%B2%A1%E3%83%9D%E3%82%B1%E3%83%A2%E3%83%B3%E3%81%AE%E4%B8%80%E8%A6%A7 Japanese Pokémon Wiki] seems to reaffirm information about them originating from Game Freak's website as well. I actually posted for a translation request on [http://jul.rustedlogic.net/thread.php?id=11437&page=15#375860 Jul] last October but never got anything back. That's great to hear that your friend took the time to translate it! Do you have a link to the translated version? --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 07:05, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Yes, that blog is run by the same friend who discovered the sheet. The Lost Pokemon site (an affiliate of the RCB site and a correspondence of mine) had info on the sprites for awhile and we're actively looking for them. Because of them I went on the chase, but my friend was able to turn them up herself after I had given up. The Lost Pokemon then discovered themselves just a few weeks or months afterwards, so they get credit for spreading it on the Japanese side of things.
 
:::I've just had my friend provide the translation. Find it [http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/post/12592876977/wimscoot-piratekingatomsk here]. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 08:07, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
::::Thank you and wimscoot so much for this! I've gathered some thoughts on why it might say "Pokémon 2" even though the designs don't seem to belong to [[Generation II]] but I realize that here isn't a good place to speculate about this. What is your username on Bulbagarden Forums? (I'm Torchickens) I also apologize for the relatively late reply. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 17:31, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
 
== Stunfisk ==
 
Beta Version from Stunfisk [http://pokemonblackandwhite.net/?p=4142]??? --Altruis 17:10, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
:That was from the Nintendo Dream interview, and it is most likely true, so it should be added. [[User:Vuvuzela2010|<span style="color:#FFFFFF; background-color:#6890F0">'''Vuvuzela2010''']]</span>[[Latios (Pokémon)|<span style="color:red; background-color:#6890F0"> Δ  ]]</span> 17:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 
==Game-on Exhibition==
It may be old news, but for those asking for references, I took pictures from this long-running exhibition called Game On. It had some concept works on some game franchises and Pokémon was one of them. [http://www.barbican.org.uk/bie/exhibitions/game-on Check here for info on the expo.] There were some Ruby/Sapphire sketches there, such as the Torchic with floppy ears [http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/sfirah/DSC01532.jpg Torchic with floppy ears], the Treecko sketches [http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/sfirah/DSC01528.jpg (maybe a little clearer here)] and [http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/sfirah/DSC01529.jpg the Blaziken/Latias one]. There were also this [http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/sfirah/DSC01530.jpg other sketch of a floppy-eared Torchic] and this [http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/sfirah/DSC01533.jpg early Groudon sketch]. [[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 03:21, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
 
:I went to the expo again today and tried to get some better photos of the art. I'll try to upload them to Bulbagaren Archives and add them to the articles. [[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 02:28, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
:: Where is this geographically?[[User:Jdrawer|Jdrawer]] 02:38, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
:::Those are of most interest. If it happens to be there tomorrow do you plan to try to take a picture of all Pokemon sketches that you can? Also nice to hear you took more photos today. The beta Treecko looked like it had a bit of a Grovyle look to it on the arms. Salamence didn't look much different. Wonder why Torchic had the most redos, a floppy eared, then chubby floppy ears, interesting. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 03:34, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
::::It goes around the world since 2002, always adding some new stuff to it. Right now, the expo is in Brasilia, Brazil.
I uploaded the pictures to Bulbagarden Archives. Torchic's [[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Torchic_Beta.jpg]] and Latiken's [[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Latias_Blaziken.jpg]] were added to the articles already, substituting the old ones. Treecko's [[http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Treecko_Beta.jpg]] (it wouldn't let me substitute the old one, so I just uploaded it separately and didn't change the article), Groudon's [[http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Groudon_Beta.jpg]] and Torchic's other concept art [[http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Torchic_Beta2.jpg]] were only uploaded, but not added to any of the articles. Someone please do it for me. xD [[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 03:51, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
: Excellent then. As for replacing the old images, I can see doing so for the Torchic but not the others at the moment. The new Torchic image you uploaded is great though since it is closer and higher quality, thanks for uploading the image. :) [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 03:54, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
::Ah as for the Treecko image, click on it, the click description page under the image which is in bold. Log in on the archives if not already and scroll down, click on upload new version of this file. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 03:59, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
:::Thanks. I did that for the Treecko picture, but it said it had some trouble cause the old picture is a png file and the new one is a jpg. Even after I tried converting  the new pic to png, it wouldn't accept. (Nevermind, it worked now. lol) [[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 04:09, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
::::I see the Groundon image has been uploaded but where would the image go? Prototype or Minor Alterations? [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 01:01, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
:::::I believe "Minor alterations" would be more accurate, as it basically remained the same, except for those marks it shares with Kyogre and Rayquaza (at least that's the only thing I noticed). [[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 01:19, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
 
== More designs ==
 
I found [http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/ this site] and it appears to have lots of legit designs that we're missing around here, despite being mixed up with fanart and fakes. But are the apparently legit ones really legit? Please discuss these findings. [[User:Pokemon lover|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 16:41, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
 
:Hehe, I've heard of this. There's this deviantArt group called TheLostPokemon, which is for the Pokemon in this article. The stuff's pretty legit (though I'd still want to check out the blog). A lot of the members of the group are artists, so their artwork is probably on the blog. [[User:Jdrawer|Jdrawer]] 22:59, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
::I run the dA group while my friend runs the tumblr blog. I can assure you that any fanwork is stated to be such while actual concept/design artwork is legit. [[User:Slowpokeisgod|Slowpokeisgod]] 21:47, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
 
== Unused girl on boxes? ==
 
The text about [[Prototype Pokémon and characters#Unreleased characters|this girl]] states "The image was shown on the boxes for the games" referring to the one that only her back is shown. I've checked {{tt|the Japanese box|the only one}} of Pokémon Green and didn't see the picture. Is this statement false? [[User:Duke R|'''<font color="#444" face="Lucida Sans Unicode">|) u |( e</font>''']] [[User talk:Duke R|'''<font color="#b00" face="Verdana">®</font>''']] 05:10, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
:[http://www.gamefaqs.com/gameboy/367023-pokemon-red-version/images/box-68474 Apparently] so (I don't own the Japanese games, but I plan on getting them), and I still have all the English games from long ago, but unfortunately without any box inserts. According to the box data on GameFAQs, the artwork doesn't appear on the back of Japanese Blue or Yellow (Pocket Monsters Pikachu) either. Perhaps the user who added it was referring to the instruction booklet? It might be worth noting that there was an [http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/5541/1290018520523.jpg official strategy guide] for {{2v2|Red|Green}} featuring the artwork. It's also interesting how this guidebook credits Ape Inc, the predecessor of Creatures Inc. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 00:27, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 
==fluffy torchic==
Am I the only one who instantly thought of Vullaby after seeing the fluffy torchic in the eggshell?[[User:Auragirl|Auragirl]] 04:08, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
 
== The guy who looks like a gymleader ==
 
In the article it says he was probably a dark gymleader but to me he looks more like a ground or rock user because tyranitar is ground as well,the turtle looks like a rock type and the hitmontop thing has a creamy dirt color plus he is wearing a turban with a gemSTONE does anyone agree?And he might of been the original concept for the first gym leader since he has only 3 pokemon that again to me seem like ground thus continueing rock(ground) type first gym.[[User:VENUS,MEGA,SCEPT,TORTE,SERP|VENUS,MEGA,SCEPT,TORTE,SERP]] 19:03, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
forget the first gym thing.[[User:VENUS,MEGA,SCEPT,TORTE,SERP|VENUS,MEGA,SCEPT,TORTE,SERP]] 18:30, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
: Surely you meant [[Tyranitar]] is Rock/Dark-type. Anyways, it's only speculation that he's Dark-type Gym Leader (he could just have been a regular trainer), but his clothes and hair style refer to dark. Also, he most likely was not the first Gym Leader as most Gym Leaders encountered first have two Pokemon (only Roark has three). It could also be noted that some Gym Leaders have Pokémon that are not of their speciality type (namely [[Volkner]] and [[Cilan]], [[Chili]] and [[Cress]]) and Rock-type specialists other than Roark generally have very little in their appearance to connect with their speciality type, plus in final product all Johto Gyms specialized in types that were not present in Kanto, at which time it would've been odd to use Gyms that "had been" there before (like Rock or Ground Gyms). I also can't picture the polypod Pokemon as a Rock-type. [[User:Ariano|Ariano]] 12:21, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 
== Thundurus and Tornadus color change ==
 
It's stated Troh's and Sawk's horns were removed because Thundurus and Tornadus were blue and red, but they had later there color changed. So, why don't they get a place on this page? Maybe they can share there column with Troh and Sawk... [[User:Nickvang|Nickvang]] ([[User talk:Nickvang|talk]]) 12:33, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 
== Cries ==
 
I attempted to post this as a comment on the YouTube video, but of course the stupid piece of shit excuse for a website kept giving me an "error try again" without any explanation. I guess this works just as well here anyways:
 
I've researched these cries for a while now and I hate how everyone keeps saying MissingNo. 0x45 sounds like Crobat or Golbat. Of course it does, because it is an *exact* copy of Zubat's cry. I'm following the same conclusion as everyone else (I hope it really way Crobat), but no one ever seems to realize that it isn't just similar to Zubat, it's exact. This also applies to MissingNo. 0x89 being an *exact* copy of Dragonair.
 
P.S. My notes: http://pastebin.com/yCry6qce -- [[User:Stag019|Stag019]] ([[User talk:Stag019|talk]]) 19:42, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 
== Shopkeeper? ==
 
Looking at the image I'm quite curious as to what the embryo thing is. Is it possibly a Pokemon or something? Also is it possible the creature in the cage to the left is an earlier version and possibly smaller version of Slowbro? ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:teal">Frozen</span>]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:green">Fennec</span>]]'' 18:57, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
:The embro thing does appear to be a Pokémon, but I don't know what though.  The thing in the cage does appear to be a early version of Slowbro. I think it probably would be a good idea to wait for some more opinions about that though, or just add it. [[User:Lady Ariel|Lady Ariel]] ([[User talk:Lady Ariel|talk]]) 20:32, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
::I think I shall wait for a few more opinions before adding that Slowbro bit. Just to make sure it is possible that it might be an early version. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:teal">Frozen</span>]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:green">Fennec</span>]]'' 20:39, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
:::I dunno about Slowbro but the 'embryo' is probably a small Water Pokémon. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 01:38, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 
== It seems that Kage No Mushi is a fake ==
 
[http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/post/47524002079/open-for-debate-removing-kage-no-mushi This Tumblr post] claims that the Pokémon may indeed be a fake made by one of the blog owner's friends. In fact, as a response to [http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/post/47524532246/hfc2x-answered-your-question-open-for-debate my answer], the owner said that Bulbapedia did take all the info on that Pokémon from that blog.
Is this correct? If so, we should remove it from the list right away. '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 06:57, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
 
Removed it from the list. --[[User:Relicant|Relicant]] ([[User talk:Relicant|talk]]) 16:58, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
 
== Kazeniga and Rokku ==
 
In this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU7M5KAfYWA), there seems to be two Pokemon, (Kazeniga and Rokku) in the vein of Gorillaimo and Godzillante. Should we add them? [[User:Jdrawer|Jdrawer]] ([[User talk:Jdrawer|talk]]) 21:41, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 
== Munna in Generation 1? ==
 
Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly, didn't an NPC near [[Rock Tunnel]] mention seeing a pink Pokémon with flowers on it in the cave? If they did, then that would mean {{p|Munna}}'s origin dates as far back as [[Generation I]]. If all of this is true, should I add it onto the page? I can also look for an image that details the Munna in the game. [[User:Pokedex493|Pokedex493]] ([[User talk:Pokedex493|talk]]) 19:21, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
:Correction, they were actually talking about the fact that there should be and I quote, 'a pink one with a floral pattern.' The link to the picture is [http://fuckyeahbetapokemonart.tumblr.com/image/12834082074]. I apologize for the profanity in the name. This is where I found the pic. [[User:Pokedex493|Pokedex493]] ([[User talk:Pokedex493|talk]]) 19:26, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 
== Who is that bug pokemon? ==
 
Hello There. ''WHO'' IS that bug pokemon:
http://images.wikia.com/pokemon/images/9/9e/Unknown_bug_pokemon.png
--[[User:Cool Sam|Cool Sam]] ([[User talk:Cool Sam|talk]]) 16:55, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
:My first reaction is it looks like the old 'scrubbing bubbles' mascot used by Dow cleaning agent. --[[User:GARY-DOS|GARY-DOS]] ([[User talk:GARY-DOS|talk]]) 07:14, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
 
== Shopkeeper ==
 
Since the similarity to the sumo character from Quinty/Mendel Palace is noted, wouldn't it also be worth noting alongside that there is an unused sprite which appears in the Gen III games which is presumably[http://tcrf.net/Pok%C3%A9mon_Ruby_and_Sapphire#Unused_overworld_sprite] a redesign of a sprite of the same character? --[[User:GARY-DOS|GARY-DOS]] ([[User talk:GARY-DOS|talk]]) 18:55, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
 
== Split ==
 
Unused cries only belong in the development leftover articles. The designs of Pokémon and characters can be mentioned in the Development section of the game articles. [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 23:44, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
 
== Kabiin ==
 
I remember, when I first saw this one in "A Man who Created Pokemon," I was certain that it was a playful reference to Kirby.  But now I can't locate my copy of the book, so I don't know if there's a date on these thumbnail sketches that would disprove this theory (ie. if these are sketches from around 1989-1990, the Kirby reference is unlikely).  Does anyone have any info to help, maybe have the book on hand to check? <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 03:10, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
:I have the book too (the 'cards' cover and not the Pulseman cover). However, I unfortunately cannot find a date. I'm afraid. Here is [http://minus.com/i/XgRc7ydCX1Uh a scan] of the page. Additionally I thought it would be worth noting that on page 293 with the monster coming out of the capsule, the page says "Monster Capsule TM" ポータブル モンスターカプセル PCM-55R $198 00, I don't know if those people who did high resolution scans (from Blue Reflections?) of the concept art showed us that. [[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] ([[User talk:Chickasaurus|talk]]) 15:47, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
 
== Sources ==
 
Can we please have where we got the info added next to each of the designs. It's nice that we have all this early artwork, but it would be much better to clarify which is from books, which is from interviews, etc. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 10:09, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
 
== Should we add Mega Flygon? ==
 
Apparently they wanted Flygon to have a mega evolution, but they couldn't come up with a good one. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 19:44, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
:Where's your source on this?--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#AB2813">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#C87365">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#26649C">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#729ABF">ire</span>]] 02:37, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
::Well, I heard it on serebii months ago, and then just today, I was at the [[Flygon]] page and saw the same thing in the Trivia. It's also in [[Mega Evolution]]. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 02:48, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
:::Oh, I see. I guess it could be added.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#AB2813">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#C87365">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#26649C">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#729ABF">ire</span>]] 03:01, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
::::I'd do it myself, but I'm not sure how to make it (though I <I>may</i> be able to figure that out. BTW, should it get a new section? Or use one of the current ones? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 03:57, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
 
== Interesting Gen II finds ==
 
Recently I've found some possibly important info, if poorly translated on Gen II unused Pokémon seemingly from the spaceworld demo. Some are just alternate names for know Pokémon, but some like Animon and Ikari(Anchor?) seem to be unused, should we add this? Links:[https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&u=http://hakuda2.web.fc2.com/ir/poke4/botu6.html&usg=ALkJrhiNG-K5r_b7o4kFtVyQ6i4AbBNj5A 1],[https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.jp%2Fpcakatsuki%2Fpokemonlab%2Fpm.html 2] [[User:Shadowsonic5000|Shadowsonic5000]] ([[User talk:Shadowsonic5000|talk]]) 01:05, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
 
== resemblance ==
I would like to point out a few things that I noticed:
1. The unused final evolution of weedle looks like the gen 1 bug type party sprite.
 
2. Eggshell torchic reminded me of vullaby.
 
3. Am I the only one who thinks that the turtle might be torkoal?
--[[User:Wizardfox|Wizardfox]] ([[User talk:Wizardfox|talk]]) 02:50, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
 
== Obscure Honōguma image — Legitimacy? ==
In [https://twitter.com/Katsu_Nagao/status/388880608748773376 a 2013 tweet], a Twitter user called Katsu Nagao posted an alleged screenshot of Honōguma and a Metapod (but red/orange instead of green) from Next Generation World Hobby Fair on January 1998. Catstorm26 noticed this and posted it about it on Twitter/forums recently. More information ([http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?105571-Official-GSC-Programming-amp-Beta-Glitch-Thread&p=18343949#post18343949 1], [http://forums.glitchcity.info/index.php?topic=7343.msg204405#msg204405 2]). Katsu Nagao claimed it to be real and it seems rather convincing, but is it convincing enough to add to the page? --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] ([[User talk:Chickasaurus|talk]]) 21:53, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
 
== Girafarig and Happa sprites ==
 
https://tcrf.net/images/5/5e/PkmnGS-EarlyBattle2.jpg
 
This image was taken from [https://youtu.be/-LPNOrsseVk?t=1m46s a 1998 video featuring footage of the Spaceworld 1997 demo of Gold and Silver]. Girafarig's original design is shown in this screenshot, as is Happa's back sprite. Unlike the [https://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/b/b9/Alpha_happa.png sketch shown in the article], it looks like Chikorita's design was actually finalized by this point in development; the only difference being that its legs are fully visible in its back sprite in the demo, whereas they are cropped out in the final game. --[[User:CartmanKusanagi|CartmanKusanagi]] ([[User talk:CartmanKusanagi|talk]]) 06:52, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
:The sketch is just a fanart drawn from memory, so it seems only natural that it differs from the real thing. To me, this in-game screencap confirms that Happa was already a fully-realized "Chikorita" at that point, design-wise at least. Therefore, it should be treated as a beta name, rather than an "unreleased design", in my opinion. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 11:45, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
::I've added screenshots for Beta Girafarig and Hoppip, both from the same footage at SpaceWorld 1997. I will remove the section on this page for 'Happa' as clearly Chikorita was a finalised design by this point. It strikes me that both the sketches for Beta Marill and Beta Qwilfish are highly likely to be misremembered fan interpretations, and that both of these designs could well have been finalised by 1997. However the longevity of these sketches probably earns them the right to remain, at least until screenshots surface proving otherwise. ''[[User:Sui|<sup style="color:#2685f1;">'''Sui'''</sup>]][[User talk:Sui|<sub style="color:#aba59d;">'''Scorpio'''</sub>]]'' 12:04, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
:::Considering that Chikorita/Happa's early artwork still displays demonstrable differences from its final appearance (yellow eyes and neck buds, an indistinct blob-like body with multiple small 'legs'), it's been moved to the 'Minor alterations' section in subsequent revisions. The artwork should also be kept as long as the Kurusu/Honoguma/Marill/Qwilfish artwork is kept, as they all clearly came from the same source. [[User:Jennyjams|Jennyjams]] ([[User talk:Jennyjams|talk]]) 16:07, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
::::Disregard the above, I misunderstood something. The sketches are apparently fan recreations of Pokemon seen in the demo, which means that the Chikorita sketch was likely a recreation/misremembering of the final sprite. [[User:Jennyjams|Jennyjams]] ([[User talk:Jennyjams|talk]]) 16:17, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
::::: I don't know why it's now in Altered Designs, given the design in that screenshot looks almost identical to this one [[Image:Spr b 2g 152.png]]. Maybe this page needs an 'Altered Names' section specifically? ''[[User:Sui|<sup style="color:#2685f1;">'''Sui'''</sup>]][[User talk:Sui|<sub style="color:#aba59d;">'''Scorpio'''</sub>]]'' 07:50, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
::::::Yes, I agree but I don't think there should be a section called "Altered Names". For now, I've redirected Happa to [[Pokémon Gold and Silver beta]] because I think it should be mentioned there as a pre-release name. I haven't actually added it to the page because I'm no expert on this and there appears to be more pre-release names that I'm not aware of (for example, see Nidoking's pre-release name, Maiko, under the "Satoshi Tajiri manga designs" discussion below). --[[User:Wowy|<span style="color:#AAAAFF">'''Wowy'''</span>]][[User talk:Wowy|<sub style="color:#B69E00;">'''(토크)'''</sub>]] 08:44, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
 
== Satoshi Tajiri manga designs ==
 
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdWog9QVMAAWe2e.jpg --'''[[User:Pokelova|<span style="color:#26649C">Poke</span>]][[User talk:Pokelova|<span style="color:#AB2813">lova</span>]]''' 03:09, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 
: It looks like there are even more here, but the Japanese text is really small so it's hard to read.
https://twitter.com/kyle_toom/status/997019544299294720 --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] ([[User talk:Chickasaurus|talk]]) 15:34, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 
Here's what the list of names says:
{|
| ２１　ビリリダマ (Voltorb)
|-
| ２２　ベロリンガ (Lickitung)
|-
| ２３　コイル　(Magnemite)
|-
| ２４　カクタス (Cactus)*
|-
| ２５　ユンゲラー (Kadabra)
|-
| ２６　スリーパー (Hypno)
|-
| ２７　マイコー・オス (Maiko♂ (This is Nidoking's beta name [https://tcrf.net/File:PokemonRB-GCCXProtoScreens.png]))
|-
| ２８　ブー (Boo)*
|-
| ２９　バルンダ（Ａ）(Blunder (A))*
|-
| ３０　ストライク(Scyther)
|-
| &nbsp;
|-
| ３１　ディグダ (Diglett)
|}[[User:Mefredbob|Mefredbob]] ([[User talk:Mefredbob|talk]]) 22:11, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 
Worth noting that this page also notes the beta name of Blastoise vs. Staryu (as Karabajio vs. Mimii) that is listed in this image.
 
Still wonder exactly what Gyaoon is, Japanese commenters seem equally confused. However, Farfetch'd seems to be clearly キクパーン (kikupaan) to them (although I confess I can't read the first kana to save my life, nor pull literally any meaning out of that either). Apologies if I've messed up the formatting.
 
[[User:Breh|Breh]] ([[User talk:Breh|talk]]) 05:39, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
 
==Alleged unused Pokémon we only know the name of==
The Japanese Pokémon Wiki has had these listed for quite a long time (source: https://wiki.ポケモン.com/wiki/没ポケモンの一覧 relevant section: "名前のみで未発表になったポケモン"), and I think (though I'm not exactly sure), they may have been talked about in old accounts of the Space World 1997 demo, but given the Mandella effect it may be risky to add them, especially Netamon which is almost a typo of Metamon (Ditto).
 
These included: Aqua, Eleking, Netamon and allegedly shown in a video during the demo explaining new features of the Pokédex: Aquaria, Animon, Ikari.
 
[https://tcrf.net/Prerelease:Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver#Pok%C3%A9mon The Cutting Room Floor article]
 
Also on the subject of unused Pokémon with no images from Generation I, [https://twitter.com/ikiro_pkmn/status/996923420230148096 this tweet] (second image) shows the handwritten names of many Pokémon in the poll, but sometimes we have no way of linking them with an existing Pokémon (or known unused Pokémon) or the handwriting may be hard to read. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] ([[User talk:Chickasaurus|talk]]) 21:07, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 
== Suggestions ==
 
-Add the other unused Pokemon from the Satoshi TaJiri manga and use higher quality images for the ones already on the page. This includes: A Pokemon that looks like a bird from Kirby, a Pokemon that looks like a Shy Guy from Mario, a Kanto Pokemon that appears to be similar to Tyranitar, and a Pokemon that is a white ball.
 
-There is also an early version of Combee in that manga.
 
-There is a higher quality image of the unused Kanto elliphant Pokemon.
 
-There is a higher quality image of the unused Pokemon that looks similar to Seel.
 
-Remove the image of Tirtouga, there is no reason to think why that Pokemon has anything to do with the unused Pokemon it is being compared to.
 
-Take the unused Pokemon that are referred to as "early versions of Gengar & Nidorino" out of the the altered Pokemon section and put them in the unreleased Pokemon section, there is no reason to assume they are related to Gengar & Nidorino.
 
-Take out the word "designs", these are unused Pokemon, not unused "Pokemon designs".
--[[User:Horsecooker|Horsecooker]] ([[User talk:Horsecooker|talk]]) 20:31, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 
-Drednaw from the upcoming Gen VII bears a lot more resemblance to the unused pokemon than Tirtouga.
 
== Space World demo leak ==
 
https://nintendosoup.com/pokemon-golds-space-world-1997-demo-has-been-leaked/ --'''[[User:Pokelova|<span style="color:#26649C">Poke</span>]][[User talk:Pokelova|<span style="color:#AB2813">lova</span>]]''' 11:03, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 
== Pokémon Gold Design Links ==
 
So I found out some used designs on plans in said game through this link http://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/05/31/pokemon-gold-demo-rom-leak-new-evolutions/ . Can we add them in on the page with approval of course?--[[User:Jacob9594|Jacob Kogan]] ([[User talk:Jacob9594|talk]]) 15:45, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
:We aren't sure if the leak is legitimate. It could be a hoax to hype up the nostalgia train from the recent pre-RG reveals.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 05:25, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
::Are you serious?  Do you really think someone spent the time and effort to build a ROM that isn't based off of the Gold ROM, created 100 new Pokemon, added new items and removed features like breeding, changed base stats, and then made the game basically unplayable without the debug menu so they could "hype up the nostalgia train"?  Are you an idiot?--[[User:Nintenfreak|Nintenfreak]] ([[User talk:Nintenfreak|talk]]) 06:08, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
:::In my opinion, it's too much of a coincidence that it comes a month (weeks?) after the RG stuff. And there are such things as hoaxers putting in the utmost effort to make something appear legitimate.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 06:11, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Also, it's a demo/prototype, making it unplayable would help make it seem legitimate.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 06:12, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
::::So, it really shouldn't need saying, but it really deserves it right now: Let's ''not'' get into slinging insults, 'kay?
::::The things you mention are persuasive, Nintenfreak, but at least for a while, we'd like to give it a bit of time to see how things look when people have had more than just a few dozen hours to look at it. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:16, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 
== Honoguma and Kurusu ==
 
The images used for Honoguma and Kurusu are not official art- they are fan recreations ([http://www.glitterberri.com/pokemon-gold-silver/spaceworld-97-demo/]). Should they be removed? --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 18:57, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
:The images for early Marill, Girafarig, and Ledyba are fan created as well. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 19:03, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
::As far as Glitterberri is concerned, seems all the images were recreated shortly after the SpaceWorld 1997 event. Given they have font all over them (as does the early Silver fan created art), it seems more than likely they were recreated to display in a gaming magazine at the time. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:teal">Frozen</span>]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:green">Fennec</span>]]'' 03:11, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Ah, that makes more sense. Thank you. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 23:34, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
::::The fan art was made for someone's personal website, just fyi. https://twitter.com/dmrn28/status/1006084888712208384 [[User:Yoriven|Yoriven]] ([[User talk:Yoriven|talk]]) 11:56, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
 
== Leaked Pokémon from Spaceworld Demo of Pokémon Gold/Silver. ==
 
So just recently, the 1997 Spaceworld demo for Pokémon Gold & Silver has just resurfaced on the Internet, and it turns out that there was a BUNCH of Pokémon that have not been used or have been heavily altered in the final release. Considering that there is about a hundred of these unused/altered Pokémon, how should we even list them on here? [[User:SquirtleLover1999|SquirtleLover1999]] ([[User talk:SquirtleLover1999|talk]]) 07:52, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
:We are aware and is being discussed above.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 08:09, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
::I mean, unless it is proven to not be fake it shouldn't be added, right? [[User:ExLight|ExLight]] ([[User talk:ExLight|talk]]) 19:53, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Exactly.
 
:::Adding to the discussion, though. This link was posted in the Bulbapedia discord: [https://iimarckus.org/spaceworld/]
 
:::Obviously it's not a source that would confirm something, but the fact that there was unused data in Gold and Silver that matches the Spaceworld leaked demo ''that was not noticed until after the demo leaked'' is certainly interesting. It's not my call, though, we need to wait for staff to reach a decision regarding the demo until anything is treated as fact. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 23:34, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
::::I, personally, believe this is fake. There are some discrepancies in the demo contents with some info (such as some of Kouichi Hiwasa's account to Glitterberri) as well as some questionable sprites in it. The staff is probably divided too, but I wonder if it is really possible to reach a veredict without an official pronouncement by GF or Nintendo. [[User:ExLight|ExLight]] ([[User talk:ExLight|talk]]) 00:54, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::Reading through Hiwasa's account, it mostly seems to match up, but I digress; my opinion isn't really important for Bulbapedia's purposes. You do bring up an interesting point with "I wonder if it is really possible to reach a verdict without an official pronouncement by GF or Nintendo". I highly, highly doubt that anyone from GF will ever even acknowledge the fact that this supposed demo version is out there, let alone confirm or refute its authenticity. The closest thing to an acknowledgement from a GF employee I know of is [https://twitter.com/JamesTurner_42/status/1002193807503376384 James Turner saying that it was the first he had heard of the demo]. Staff knows the parameters for confirming something without a reasonable doubt though, and I have confidence that they know how to treat this demo. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 01:14, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
::::::Didn't see the discussion here, and I didn't know it was a... divisive topic to put it simply. And judging by what they are saying here, it's almost impossible to prove unless someone that played the demo 21 years ago says anything or an ex-GF member confirms it. Guess I shouldn't have said anything at the GS beta page. --[[User:Prog rocker|Prog rocker]] ([[User talk:Prog rocker|talk]]) 02:20, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::::I don't thinking trusting the memory from someone who played it 21 years ago is somewhat reliable. The only way to nail it down would be GF or Nintendo confirming it. [[User:ExLight|ExLight]] ([[User talk:ExLight|talk]]) 03:09, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
:::::::: What about the memory of multiple people who played it 21 years ago? [[User:Yoriven|Yoriven]] ([[User talk:Yoriven|talk]]) 20:04, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
 
== The Game Review Magazine ==
 
As a question, I was wondering why the details of the Game Review Magazine are current on the article.  While I can understand Tyranitar due to being recycled for the games, [http://dogasu.bulbagarden.net/features/sugimori_kens_works.html the designs were just created on the fly for a topic in the magazine].  Would it be ok to remove everything except for Tyranitar when the article is unlocked?  --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 18:13, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
:Eh, even if they were just made as a what if scenario, they were still drawn. So I think it should stay.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 04:32, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
 
== Another discussion about Beta Pokemon Gold ==
 
I think it's already been mentioned that the leak might have been a hoax. Now that we've "given it a bit of time" and it's been more than "a few dozen hours", can someone add the new leaks to the page? [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 20:02, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
:I think that when information is finished on userspace pages, it would be able to be moved to the mainspace. However, different users have different ideas on how this would look— [[User:Celadonkey/Spaceworld|mine]] and [[User:Abcboy/Pokémon Gold and Silver demo/Pokémon|Abcboy's]] are pretty different, for example.
 
:That being said, though, I think that if we were able to add this kind of stuff to the mainspace, even if it's not fully complete yet, it would be completed quicker, and there would be more discussion on how to format it and such. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 21:11, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
::The main focus should be fleshing out the userpages first. Do '''NOT''' add the leak Pokémon on this article. The staff will discuss how to go about putting the leak info on the mainspace.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 03:34, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
:::I'm pretty sure that the supposed leak was faked. As such, we probably shouldn't mainspace the information within.[[User:Jdrawer|Jdrawer]] ([[User talk:Jdrawer|talk]]) 03:52, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
::::As far as I've heard there hasn't been any recent developments about it. What makes you think that? I'm not trying to argue, just trying to hear your thoughts. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 17:28, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
 
This analysis seems to solidify the existence of two beta GSC pokemon, particularly Kotora and Raitora.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq971cWWzq8&t=82s
--[[User:Flashlight237|Flashlight237]] ([[User talk:Flashlight237|talk]]) 18:03, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
:Any update on the staff discussion? Work on the pages seems to be rather disorganized at the moment- as well as pretty dead. [[User:Yoriven|Yoriven]] ([[User talk:Yoriven|talk]]) 21:59, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
::New comments go at the bottom of the discussion. Have patience, there are other things taking priority at the moment. Users should be focusing on filling out the userpages.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 02:56, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 
== Kabiin, Buhi and Papyo are not from Capumon ==
 
These three monsters come from a different document and can't be positively dated. Anyways the word "Pokémon" appears on their storyboards along with GameFreak's final logo (which first appeared in Pulseman) at least confirming that they weren't featured in the 1990 pitch. I propose to separate them from the Capumon group.[[User:Qbertpo|Qbertpo]] ([[User talk:Qbertpo|talk]]) 10:51, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
 
== Add the Four "MissingNo." That were Identified ==
 
I suggest adding the four MissingNo. that have been identified recently. I know that we must not acknowledge the spaceworld leak. [https://helixchamber.com/2018/08/06/game-center-cx-and-you/ Source.] {{unsigned|Kingdedede}}
 
== The Unused Female Character ==
The unused female character has now appeared in an actual Pokémon game as Green. I propose we create a new page for this character, as it seems to be strongly indicated that she is not the same character as Leaf (though Leaf is partially based on the character, they are not the same). --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 05:58, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 
== NHK Broadcast revealed scrapped Pokemon "Omega" and early Gyarados design. ==
Helix Chamber has confirmed it to be real as well;
https://twitter.com/benisboy/status/1075154504792731648 {{unsigned|Pichu Madman26}}
:Interesting. I'd say it's worth adding. That Gyarados looks really cool, by the way. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 18:14, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
 
== Pokemon GS Beta and Pokemon Green Prototype Data ==
Okay, so the issue has been up for months now of whether the Pokemon GS Spaceworld demo is real. Various pieces of evidence have been brought up, from leftover assets to discoveries of 4 MissingNo, not only proving the existence of unseen beta Pokemon, but two of them matching suspiciously with Kotora and Raitora [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq971cWWzq8&t=15s]. Many things showed favor of this thing being legit, and nothing giving much against it, that is until, the Pokemon Green leaked assets. Due to being poorly presented, many took it as fake, and questioned the overall authenticity of Helix Chamber. But as of today, scans of a Famitsu magazine have been made public. Various concept arts and better quality images of sprites have been revealed. But what really drew my attention was this tweet [https://twitter.com/helixchamber/status/1126145212785594375]. If the proto assets were fake, how would the faker get these right? They had no way of knowing, unless it was made by someone at Pokemon, although that would only make it seem more authentic. This is definite evidence of the assets being real, poorly revealed, but real. Knowing this, even more authenticity is added to the Pokemon GS demo being real. This is because various baby Pokemon and the Kotora and Raitora line are found in the assets and are seen in the Spaceworld demo. I really think a decision needs to be made, because more and more evidence is piling up to the Spaceworld Demo and now the Proto-Green Assets, and more and more questions will rise if the staff at Bulbapedia don't put their foot down on what these are. I understand being wary to add info about the Proto-Green Assets, but Spaceworld has had months of waiting, just to be proven beyond reasonable doubt as real. At this point these should be declared on Bulbapedia as real, or as fake, and have that as Bulbapedia's final decision on the matter. [[User:LeapingRiolu|LeapingRiolu]] ([[User talk:LeapingRiolu|talk]]) 04:04, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
:Helix Chamber wasn’t the one who released the Spaceworld rom, so the RG incident shouldn’t have affected its already proven without a doubt veracity. Unfortunately, for some people, it has. But yes, I agree. Both prototypes are 100% real. Frankly Spaceworld should have been added several months ago. I feel like Spaceworld also has enough information to warrant much more than just a few additions on this page, and should be expanded to its own pages. Let’s hope we get a full rom of an RG prototype someday, but for now it should go on this page and/or the Pokémon Red and Green beta page. --[[User:Celadonkey|<span style="color:#004EA2">cela</span><span style="color:#B60007">donk</span>]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 11:42, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
::I don't think a small snippet from Famitsu, and one where we already know most of the information, proves that the RG leak is "100% real". Unless Famitsu or any other official/credible source releases more RG beta content, the RG leak could very well be 100% fake. As for spaceworld, still no official/credible source for that, so I'm still doubtful on that. Yes, it's highly unlikely we'll get official sources for it, and that's just too bad. But for things like beta content, we can really only trust the official sources and not some "leak" from some "anonymous" source.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 13:53, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
:::A lot of the sprites from the Famitsu magazine and the RG asset leak are identical. Some of these sprites were never seen before. Unless whoever sent Helix Chamber has a time machine, this is impossible. Spaceworld has already been confirmed on multiple fronts to be real by experts, and was also confirmed by the RG assets. To be blunt, at this point, claiming either is fake is just denial. It’s hurting the integrity of the wiki to ignore such important information, quite honestly. --[[User:Celadonkey|<span style="color:#004EA2">cela</span><span style="color:#B60007">donk</span>]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:50, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
:::Oh, and in case more than trainer sprites were needed, which should prove it without a doubt, two names from the RG assets that AFAIK have not appeared before, Ichirou and Yuuichi, appeared in the Famitsu scan. --[[User:Celadonkey|<span style="color:#004EA2">cela</span><span style="color:#B60007">donk</span>]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 19:07, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
::::There's a reason these things are anonymous. We have no idea how anyone would have gotten their hands on these pieces of Pokemon history. Pokemon has confirmed that they look back at old concepts and such for inspiration, so the only way I see it getting out is blatant theft. And if the person revealing the Beta and Assets did give their name, they'd more than likely lose their job and suffer legal consequences. [[User:LeapingRiolu|LeapingRiolu]] ([[User talk:LeapingRiolu|talk]]) 21:15, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
:::::Regardless of anonymity, both these leaks are real. And yes, I suppose that "it's highly unlikely we'll get official sources for it," but at this point, we shouldn't need Gamefreak to magically come down from the sky and spoonfeed us the truth. Anyone can tell from looking at these leaks, especially the RG assets, that they're real, without any room for doubt. Unless, again, Helix Chamber has a time travel machine. This is more than just a "small snippet"; this is cold, hard evidence that proves the veracity of both. Let's not let our personal opinions hurt Bulbapedia. --[[User:Celadonkey|<span style="color:#004EA2">cela</span><span style="color:#B60007">donk</span>]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 18:33, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
::::::I have to agree, there's no doubt the leaks are legit by this point. Waiting for confirmation from official sources or Famitsu is asinine, game companies rarely if ever confirm the veracity on such leaks. It seems to me that this place is just inexperienced at dealing with beta leaks. The proof brought up already proves they're not fake; even The Cutting Room Floor, which ''does'' have experience at the subject of leaks, prototypes and scrapped content, has accepted them as legit. Stop being so headstrong in the face of proof. [[User:Ericss|Ericss]] ([[User talk:Ericss|talk]]) 06:50, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
 
== Admins -- is Gen 5 betamon info all rumors? ==
 
Hey admins, how are ya. I made this Bulbapedia account just to write this post.
 
 
I've got a YouTube channel that primarily focuses on beta Pokemon content, with an emphasis on having a source for everything. I'm working on Gen 5 now, and I was looking at Bulbapedia's unused Pokemon page. It seems that information regarding the beta of the Hydreigon family, Sawk, Throh, Tornadus, Thundurus, and Stunfisk is all credited to a Nintendo Dream interview with Ken Sugimori. But I've spent about 12 hours over the past couple days searching for that interview, or even a volume number that interview is meant to be contained in. I even googled around in Japanese. Couldn't find a thing. I asked my 22,000 subscribers for help, including some who are Japanese. No one could find anything. It seems Bulbapedia and many other sites have just been citing "a Nintendo Dream interview," and no one has been linking or citing a specific volume.
 
 
I'm thinking maybe it's meant to be volume 205, the May 2011 issue. But in that interview Sugimori only says that Hydreigon is based on the Yamata no Ochiri. I'm thinking all these quotes attributed to that Sugimori interview -- about dragon tanks, horned eyebrowless Oni, red Tornadus, and anglerfish Stunfisk -- probably don't exist, and that all Bulbapedia's Gen 5 betamon info is bunk -- all except Sawsbuck and Excadrill. I'd really like to be wrong though.
 
 
I tried combing through the page's history tab, but couldn't find where this information was added. I'm new to looking over the back-end of wikis though, so my apologies if I'm just overlooking something obvious. Please let me know, I'd really appreciate it.
 
 
Cheers admins,
 
Dr Lava {{unsigned|Dr Lava}}
:Ultra-ironic if true. -{{unsigned|ArchdevilAntidote}}
::-[http://blog.livedoor.jp/shellspider/archives/696157.html#more]
::-[http://rpgland.com/2010/11/30/pokemon-black-and-white-scans-interview-in-nintendo-dream/]
::-[https://web.archive.org/web/20111119031953/http://pokemonblackandwhite.net/?p=4142]
::-[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=List_of_unused_Pok%C3%A9mon_and_character_designs&diff=1660923&oldid=1653669]
::-[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Talk:Hydreigon_(Pok%C3%A9mon)#Official_source._Hydreigon_is_based_on_a_Japanese_dragon.28YAMATA_NO_OROCHI.29.] (User Sawamular cites Nintendo Dream volume 205 as his source, he posted the same message on pokemon talk pages relevant to the Gen 5 beta)
::-[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Hydreigon_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=prev&oldid=1448591]
::-[https://forums.serebii.net/threads/official-pokemon-discussion-thread.467053/page-459#post-12163722]
::--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 05:08, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
 
{{indent}}Thanks ForceFire for the links, much appreciated. Of the 7 links you gave me as sources for the Gen 5 Pokemon's altered designs, one of them was in Japanese, one referred to the Nintendo Dream issue as being the February 2011 instead of May, #19 was just a user citing the May issue for the Yamata no Orochi quote but nothing else -- and well, I found the whole collection to be useful but still a little confusing and unclear. The most useful one was a non-ideal translation on page 459 of a Serebii forums thread, which is basically ungooglable. That said, I don't mean to come off as jerky here -- I know you're working with what you've got and I'm impressed you even had this much, and I appreciate your taking the time to provide me these links.
 
I think this particular Sugimori interview is probably the most important interview that deals with Gen 5 altered Pokemon designs, so I had the interview's Japanese transcript properly translated into English, and a Japanese friend was able to provide me with a picture of volume 205's page that has the information about Hydreigon, Sawk, Throh, and the Forces of Nature trio. '''I've compiled the original Japanese transcript, the English translation, pictures, and provided context for the interview, and added it all to my website in an easy-to-read article.''' I also included a special thanks section that thanks you ForceFire for providing valuable links, as well as to Shellspider, the original transcriber, and a link to the archive of his old blog. Several other folks who helped put it all together are thanked as well at the end of the interview's translation. Here's the link: http://lavacutcontent.com/ken-sugimori-nintendo-dream/
 
I hope that this link can serve as a more convenient, accessible, and accurate source for these "altered design" entries on the "unused Pokemon" page. Like I said, '''I think this particular Sugimori interview is really important, and information about it is incredibly difficult to find, even with Google. And I think it needs to be preserved and easy to access, particularly for folks who don't speak Japanese.''' Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to help me find this stuff ForceFire. Sorry if I formatted this post wrong -- I couldn't figure out how to make it a reply to your previous comment, so I just put it here. Cheers. -Dr Lava [[User:Dr Lava|Dr Lava]] ([[User talk:Dr Lava|talk]]) 11:56, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
:The other staff members also contributed in finding those links, I just relayed the information. A majority of those links all cite the same one source: Nintendo Dream. I've added the information into the altered Pokemon section, linking your site as a reference. I'll eventually get to adding the information to the individual articles.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 08:10, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 
== Another Nintendo Dream interview translation with Sugimori ==
 
I had another Ken Sugimori interview translated, this one from Nintendo Dream volume 204. Here's the link: http://lavacutcontent.com/ken-sugimori-nintendo-dream-2/
 
And here are the highlights as it relates to this "unused Pokemon" page:
 
"Petilil and Lilligant were originally meant as a three-stage evolutionary line."
 
"Stunfisk was born out of the designer’s desire to create the flattest Pokémon. At first he was modeled after a goosefish, was blue in color, and was dual-type Water and Electric, but during the balancing phase of development, his type was changed and he ended up resembling a flounder." This page currently states he was an angler fish. A goosefish is technically a type of angler fish, but I think most folks think of an angler fish as round, but a goosefish as flat. Idk, maybe that's just me.
 
"Originally Dwebble and Crustle’s shells were supposed to be made from kiln-fired pottery, which would have made them ‘Furnace Pokémon.’ But we ended up revising the shells and giving them sharper angles, because we thought the original designs looked slow and awkward."
 
About the Litwick family: "The original concept was to create a Pokémon family that starts as a flame, then a candle, and finally a lamp. But the idea that a flame evolved into a candle wasn’t really working, so we ended up switching the candle’s position to make it the family’s first form."
 
I talked to SnorlaxMonster on Twitter -- he told me there were a few of you guys in an admin group chat that scrounged up those links you sent me before. Very much appreciated. Cheers ForceFire. [[User:Dr Lava|Dr Lava]] ([[User talk:Dr Lava|talk]]) 19:19, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
 
[June 19, 2019 edit]
 
I had the interview from Nintendo Dream volume 201 translated as well, here's the link: http://lavacutcontent.com/ken-sugimori-nintendo-dream-3/
 
The main highlight, at least as far as beta Pokemon, is the section about Karrablast and a scrapped snail Pokemon once meant as Karrablast and Escavalier's rival, or more likely a 2 stage family of snails.
 
== Unpictured ==
 
The sheep that we thought could be Flaaffy or Mareep... could also be Wooloo (and if it evolves, maybe whatever it evolves to). --[[User:OPStellar|OPStellar]] ([[User talk:OPStellar|talk]]) 20:29, 3 August 2019 (UTC)OPStellar
 
== Hoppip's beta name ==
 
Please add that {{p|Hoppip}}'s beta name was {{tt|ハネコ|Haneko}} '''Haneco'''. Thank you. --[[User:TheICTLiker4|<span style="color:#2b2">'''TheICT'''</span>]][[User talk:TheICTLiker4|<span style="color:#22b">'''Liker'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheICTLiker4|<span style="color:#b62">'''4'''</span>]] 07:19, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 
== Gengar & "Nidorino", Omega and Gyaoonh ==
Change Nidorino to unknown creature. Nidorino was created way after 1990. Nidoran ♂️, Nidoran ♀️, Nidoking, and Nidoqueen were created in 1990. The creature appears to shair traits with Gyaoon as well. Only 30 pokémon were created in 1990, as seen in Capumon documents which also included Omega, which was a robotic tyrannosauroid based on Mecha Godzilla. Omega was first seen in Satoshi Tagiri manga, where most of it's sprite and name was covered up. It was finally seen in December 2018 when the second Capumon sprite page was revealed in an NHK broadcast. It originally used Blastoise's cry, which was seen when in the Gameinformer video interview with James Turner, Gyaoon's cry was also revealed to have been Ivysaur's  It may have been a counterpart to Gyaoon as Gyaoon's name is an onomatopoeia for Godzilla's roar. Gyaoon was later moved to slot 31 based on leaked prototype data for Red & Green. The origin of the files is from a hacker that hacked nintendo's servers. This is also where the Spaceworld 1997 G&S Prototype and the Gen 4 beta sprites originated from.
 
[[File:OmegaNHK.png]]
[[File:Gyaon2.png]]
[[User:Kingdedede|Kingdedede]] ([[User talk:Kingdedede|talk]]) 01:52, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
 
Well, it seems more clear that everything that was leaked is real. Where the editors at? --[[User:Flashlight237|Flashlight237]] ([[User talk:Flashlight237|talk]]) 05:44, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
 
== Prisman ==
 
The [[Media:June 1997 CoroCoro p32-35.jpg|June 1997 issue of CoroCoro Comics]] included a "Pokémon 2 Idea Contest". As an example of the kind of designs entrants might like to submit, CoroCoro included a design for a hypothetical Pokémon called "Prisman". [https://hirespokemon.tumblr.com/post/176957044281/probably-by-junichi-nihei-%E3%83%8B%E7%93%B6%E6%B7%B3%E4%B8%80-published-in Hi Res Pokémon] has a translation of its details. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 05:56, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
 
== Bandana ==
 
You don't spell 'bandana' as 'bandanna'. Please fix. Could [[Template:Anchor|anchors]] be added as well please?--[[User:Tmwps|Tmwps]] ([[User talk:Tmwps|talk]]) 16:07, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
:Either spelling is acceptable. --[[User:Celadonkey|<span style="color:#00A1E9">cela</span><span style="color:#BF004F">donk</span>]] ([[User talk:Celadonkey|talk]]) 16:18, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
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