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Perhaps there should be an entry for Z-moves, particurly for Z-status moves? Since (almost) all of them have a corresponding effect when in Z-form. --[[User:FIQ|FIQ]] ([[User talk:FIQ|talk]]) 12:01, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
Perhaps there should be an entry for Z-moves, particurly for Z-status moves? Since (almost) all of them have a corresponding effect when in Z-form. --[[User:FIQ|FIQ]] ([[User talk:FIQ|talk]]) 12:01, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
:I'd like to mention that the German Pokéwiki has done this (for all moves). While I believe it's useful for status moves, the way they did it, for damaging moves, I repeatedly confused their power as a Z-Move with their regular power. So if we do this, I believe we should make the difference clearly visible. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:02, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
:I'd like to mention that the German Pokéwiki has done this (for all moves). While I believe it's useful for status moves, the way they did it, for damaging moves, I repeatedly confused their power as a Z-Move with their regular power. So if we do this, I believe we should make the difference clearly visible. [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 17:02, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
== Flag reform ==
I think we seriously need to reform the "flags" in the infobox. This post is going to be long, so my most basic ideas here:
# It really shouldn't matter whether something is implemented as an actual flag by the developers; it is either useful, or it is not.
# I think a move's infobox should complement other parts of the wiki, most notably the move's own Effect section. It can condense, sure, but if you'd have to read the Effect section anyway, having it in the infobox isn't really that useful on its own.
So, this is a list of "flags" I think are worth discussing:
:{| class="roundy expandable" style="background:#{{White color}}; border: 3px solid #{{Red color}}"
!Flag
!Detail
|-
|aromaveil
|Prevented by {{a|Aroma Veil}}
|-
|authentic
|Ignores a target's substitute (unless target=self)
|-
|bite
|Power is multiplied by 1.5 when used by a Pokemon with {{a|Strong Jaw}}. {{cat|Biting moves}}
|-
|bullet
|Has no effect on Pokemon with {{a|Bulletproof}}. {{cat|Ball and bomb moves}}
|-
|charge
|The user is unable to make a move between turns.
|-
|contact ("touches")
|Makes [[contact]].
|-
|dance
|Copied by {{a|Dancer}}. {{cat|Dance moves}}
|-
|defrost
|Thaws the user if executed successfully while the user is frozen. {{cat|Moves that thaw out the user}}
|-
|distance
|Can target non-adjacent Pokémn in Triple Battles. Apparently realized as a flag internally.
|-
|field
|Was a [[field move]].
|-
|gravity
|Prevented from being selected and executed during {{m|Gravity|intense gravity}}
|-
|heal
|Prevented when {{m|Heal Block}} is in effect
|-
|kingsrock
|Affected by [[King's Rock]]. Only an actual flag in GenIII+IV. (See King's Rock article.)
|-
|magiccoat
|Bounced back to the original user by {{m|Magic Coat}} or the Ability {{a|Magic Bounce}}.
|-
|mirror
|Can be copied by {{m|Mirror Move}}
|-
|naturalobject
|Can destroy a [[natural object]]
|-
|nonsky
|Prevented from being executed or selected in a [[Sky Battle]]
|-
|powder
|From GenVI onward, has no effect on Grass-type Pokemon, Pokemon with the Ability Overcoat, and Pokemon holding Safety Goggles. {{cat|powder and spore moves}}
|-
|protect
|Blocked by {{m|Protect}} etc.
|-
|pulse
|Power is multiplied by 1.5 when used by a Pokemon with {{a|Mega Launcher}}. {{cat|Aura and pulse moves}}
|-
|punch
|Power is multiplied by 1.2 when used by a Pokemon with {{a|Iron Fist}}. {{cat|Punching moves}}
|-
|recharge
|If this move is successful, the user must recharge on the following turn and cannot make a move.
|-
|snatch
|Can be stolen from the original user and instead used by another Pokemon using Snatch.
|-
|sound
|Has no effect on Pokemon with {{a|Soundproof}}. {{cat|Sound-based moves}} (Note: does not automatically mean "authentic from GenVI onwards")
|-
|any other [[additional effect]]
|We ''could'' do it here (e.g. "burn=yes" etc.), including categories
|-
|various modifiers
|We ''could'' do it here. (''This move is stronger if the target has used Minimize'' etc.)
|}
And here are a few more considerations:
* I think the Effect section should always contain the most defining aspects of the move. (That includes additional effects, charge/recharge etc.) We would not need it in the infobox as well.
* We factor in distance in our target parameter (and I think that's better).
* Many of these change between generations, and if they're important, we should note those in Effect sections anyway. Currently, we (try to) stick to GenVII behavior for the parameter (except for field, which is yes if it ever was a field move).
* I don't think all of them ''are'' important enough for Effect sections. I really like how [[Snatch (move)]] or [[King's Rock]] have a table, and if you want to know whether something is affected by that, you'd be looking there anyway.
** protect is quite trivial; except a very status moves (noted at [[Protect (move)]]), it depends on the target (more specifically, on the hit target), unless it is a defining feature of a move (that needs to be in the Effect section)
* Just saying "is a <X> move" (sound-based, for example) covers many effects that are elsewhere on the wiki (categories in particular). Outsourcing it there (with a link) reduces the need to update any <X> move. And it also removes fluff from Effect sections{{tt|*|for example, compare the current Effect sections of Poison Jab (poison; concise), Hypnosis (sleep, authentic in GenI; concise), and Sing (sleep, sound, authentic in GenI and GenVI+; not concise, and I have no idea how to add that authentic stuff)}}.
So, I'm leaning towards including (only) the following parameters:
:aromaveil, authentic*, bite, bullet, contact, dance, field, gravity, heal, mirror*, (naturalobject), (nonsky), powder, pulse, punch, sound
I also think each of those should have a category. naturalobject and nonsky are for a few past games only, but I tend to think these should also be in the infobox. kingsrock, magiccoat and snatch change quite often, so I'm inclined to believe maybe they're better off at their respective pages only, with neat tables of affected moves per generation. I think mirror only changes for the few cases we already list at [[List of modified moves]], and most authentic changes are due to them making sound moves hit through substitute in GenVI, so maybe we ''can'' include them, if we want to. I believe protect may not really need a param, but if it does, it should certainly bold "no".
So, I think this seriously requires some very open mind. I'm hoping for some input. (And then, I'm hoping for an implementation of our results.) [[User:Nescientist|Nescientist]] ([[User talk:Nescientist|talk]]) 14:45, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
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