View source for Talk:Dawn's Togekiss

== Gender ==

In DP172 Dawn describes Togekiss as being very older-sister-like, and Togekiss' speaking style (as translated by Meowth) is ''very'' feminine... would this be enough to consider it officially female, or do we need something more substantial than that? <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 19:17, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
:Personally, I would say it's not enough. Is Harley officially female? --[[Gallade|<span style="color:#00A000;">'''エ'''</span>]][[User:Galladeon|<span style="color:#0000A0;">'''ルレ'''</span>]][[User talk:Galladeon|<span style="color:#B69E00;">'''イ'''</span><span style="color:#93abc3;">'''ド'''</span>]] 19:24, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
::Togekiss's speaking style is, in a way, even more feminine than Harley's, actually. <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 19:45, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
:::If Ash spoke with a feminine style, would you consider him female? We have had female characters in the past using male pronouns (which confused the heck out of Ash and co.), plus it could be a bit of a joke on Meowth's part for all we know. Until it's flat-out stated that Togekiss is female, we don't know if it is or not. See Pikachu for example. --[[Gallade|<span style="color:#00A000;">'''エ'''</span>]][[User:Galladeon|<span style="color:#0000A0;">'''ルレ'''</span>]][[User talk:Galladeon|<span style="color:#B69E00;">'''イ'''</span><span style="color:#93abc3;">'''ド'''</span>]] 20:02, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
::::The way it's presented makes it pretty clear that it is not a joke and is a sincere representation of Togekiss' gender... I'm not really sure how to explain it, though.  It's a nuance of the language that's not easily described.  Let's wait for the input of some others before we write off the idea completely. <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 20:11, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::I think I know exactly what you're talking about. Anabel used the masculine version of the language. Does that mean she's a guy? Also, gender roles aren't so solid anymore. Just because nuances of language were once associated with females doesn't mean they still are, especially in this day and age.
:::::Pikachu acted like a guy for a long time before we finally caved in at the Togepi episode and confirmed him as male. Behavior and language are ''not'' acceptable reasons to declare someone male or female. Trust me, you're not going to get any of the admins to side with you. --[[Gallade|<span style="color:#00A000;">'''エ'''</span>]][[User:Galladeon|<span style="color:#0000A0;">'''ルレ'''</span>]][[User talk:Galladeon|<span style="color:#B69E00;">'''イ'''</span><span style="color:#93abc3;">'''ド'''</span>]] 20:16, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::Comparing Anabel and Harley to a Pokémon is ridiculous...They aren't the same thing, plus, its noticeable that both are of respective genders...If Togekiss acts like a female, has a feminine voice and mannerisms, it's basically female...--[[User:PsychicRider|<span style="color:#78C850;">'''Psy'''</span>]][[User talk:PsychicRider|<sub style="color:#F85888;">'''ライダー'''</sub>]]''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|<span style="color:#C4E673;">'''☮'''</span>]]'' 20:26, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::But did we do it for Pikachu, Meowth, or any other Pokémon? I don't think so. We waited for them to be referred to as male or female in the original. --[[Gallade|<span style="color:#00A000;">'''エ'''</span>]][[User:Galladeon|<span style="color:#0000A0;">'''ルレ'''</span>]][[User talk:Galladeon|<span style="color:#B69E00;">'''イ'''</span><span style="color:#93abc3;">'''ド'''</span>]] 20:30, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::There was a debate over Meowth's gender? Anyway, there's probably more evidence for it's Pokémon ability (Serene Grace).[[User:PDL|PDL]] 01:04, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Acting gracefully is not evidence for Serene Grace whatsoever. --[[User:HoennMaster|<font color="blue">Hoenn</font>]][[User talk:HoennMaster|<font color="green">Master</font>]] 17:26, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::The point I'm making is that there's more evidence for that then there is evidence for it being female. (Besides, it doesn't appear to have Hustle...) [[User:PDL|PDL]] 01:48, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::It's the complete opposite. There is more evidence for it being female then its ability. --[[User:HoennMaster|<font color="blue">Hoenn</font>]][[User talk:HoennMaster|<font color="green">Master</font>]] 06:53, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::You're still not getting it. Mannerisms alone will not determine anything. Regardless of either ability OR gender.[[User:PDL|PDL]] 17:53, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::I never said they did. I said there is more evidence for it being female. I didn't say that confirms it. --[[User:HoennMaster|<font color="blue">Hoenn</font>]][[User talk:HoennMaster|<font color="green">Master</font>]] 18:06, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

I know it, the japanese voice states like his prevolutions! --[[User:Ash Ketchum Chile|Ash Ketchum Chile]] 14:10, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:Um... what? This sentence doesn't make any sense. --[[Tracey Sketchit|<span style="color:#33CC66;">'''ケンジ'''</span>]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#6600CC;">'''の'''</span>]][[User:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#FF00CC;">'''ガール'''</span>]] 18:08, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Togekiss being female needs to be removed and replaced with gender unknown if it never explicitly stated Togekiss was female in the anime. Having a motherly instinct doesn't mean it's female. I mean, it could also have been a male Togekiss with a parental instinct. Misty has pictured Pikachu in dresses before and yet Pikachu is male so I think the Togekiss gender should be listed as unknown until explicitly stated in the anime. It's what we do for all the other Pokémon right? Should be no different from this one. (Was Togekiss comfirmed as female in the anime? If yes, then it can be left as is). --[[User:Brats817|Brats817]] 02:46, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
:We are not getting into this argument again.  Togekiss is female.  Period.  The end. <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 03:11, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Excuse me?! Does that give you the right to be rude? That was my first time posting here, and besides, if Togekiss was never explicitly called female in the anime, it should say gender unknown until further notice, not posting fan speculation junk. And besides, answer my question, WAS Togekiss called a female in the anime flat out? Because I honestly am not 100 percent sure, and do not give me an answer that is just pure speculation. I do know that they said Togekiss had a sister-like personality, but they didn't explicitly say Togekiss was female in general, they were just stating Togekiss's nature. Behavior of the Pokemon should not be enough to call it a particular gender. (Unless the Pokémon has only one confirmed gender or is genderless) I am not trying to be rude or argue, only trying to confirm whether Togekiss was really called a female in the anime or if this is just speculation. You had no right to be rude, especially when you didn't even put an honest and true answer to my statements there. --[[User:Brats817|Brats817]] 21:41, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
:The only one who's being rude here right now is '''you''' by overreacting [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 21:44, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

All I wanted to know were the facts from the anime, and not people being rude at me for it. I am not the one who started being rude, "You" people were. All I wanted were honest answers, not someone barging in and posting a rude comment, so it's only natural I overreacted a bit. Anyways, this is my LAST comment here, this board is too out of hand now and post all of the nasty comments you want as replies because that just shows how immature you people are. Good day. --[[User:Brats817|Brats817]] 21:50, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, the person who's name is Brats817 is the mature one....ok like Umeko said...discussion over [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 22:22, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

== Size Inconsistency link ==

Although the link links to the size discrepancy page, Togekiss is not mentioned on that page? Either it's notable enough to be considered trivia and it be on the discrepancy page or it's not notable enough and it shouldn't be on the discrepancy page right? --[[User:Joeshie|<span style="font-weight: bold; color:#6B8E23; border: 1px dashed #DFFFA5;">+ Joeshie +</span>]] <small>''([[User talk:Joeshie|<span style="color:#99CC32">is Mæ!</span>]])''</small> 06:30, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

== Evolution? ==

It says "This Pokémon has not evolved" and Togekiss is the last in its evolution line?[[User:Miscs|Miscs]] 12:45, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
:They all say that for every Pokémon that gets caught without seen evolving. Whether it has another stage or it doesn't. It's just the way it is. --[[Tracey Sketchit|<span style="color:#33CC66;">'''ケンジ'''</span>]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#6600CC;">'''の'''</span>]][[User:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#FF00CC;">'''ガール'''</span>]] 00:45, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Ability ==

Doesn't she have {{a|Serene Grace}}? The article itself describes Togekiss as "graceful" and/or having grace multiple times. [[Special:Contributions/GamerGeek|<span style="color:aqua">☆</span>]][[User:GamerGeek|<span style="color:teal">Gamer</span>]][[User talk:GamerGeek|<span style="color:gold">Geek</span>]][[Special:Log/GamerGeek|<span style="color:orange">☆</span>]] 06:55, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
:That has nothing to do with the Ability. No. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] ([[User talk:Ataro|talk]]) 07:03, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
::Ok, I just checked back the episodes in which she appears, and both Dawn and Salvia describe Togekiss as "graceful" themselves. Besides, I don't think she would have {{a|Hustle}} if she were that graceful, and she can't have {{a|Super Luck}} since Hidden Abilities (or the Dream World for that matter) didn't exist at the time. [[Special:Contributions/GamerGeek|<span style="color:aqua">☆</span>]][[User:GamerGeek|<span style="color:teal">Gamer</span>]][[User talk:GamerGeek|<span style="color:gold">Geek</span>]][[Special:Log/GamerGeek|<span style="color:orange">☆</span>]] 14:40, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

== Why is she still not considered a Fairy-type? ==

Togekiss was retconned to be Fairy/Flying now. Why is this Togekiss still being treated as a Normal/Flying type instead of Fairy/Flying? --[[User:PKMNAdventurer|PKMNAdventurer]] ([[User talk:PKMNAdventurer|talk]]) 15:55, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
:Pokemon who appear in the anime are treated as whatever type they were in their last appearance. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 16:02, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
::<nowiki>*</nowiki>Debut appearance. Since if Dawn's Togekiss were to appear in the XY series, it'd still be a Normal/Fairy type due to it being introduced before Generation VI.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#025DA6">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#5A96C5">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EA1A3E">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#F16A81">ire</span>]] 03:20, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
:::I hate to disagree, but why would it be based on the debut appearance and not their last appearance?  --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 04:22, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
::::Because it was caught before Generation VI. Just like how Ash's Heracross's gender is still unknown, despite it appearing in Diamond and Pearl.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#025DA6">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#5A96C5">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EA1A3E">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#F16A81">ire</span>]] 04:48, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
:::::Gender, I can agree on since that is related to the appearance.  However, what do we do if a situation occurs where a Pokémon like Togekiss appears and is involved in a battle?  Would it still be based on the debut appearance?  --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 15:32, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
::::::If it were to reappear and it is shown to be immune to Dragon types, maybe. But for now, it's a part normal type.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#025DA6">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#5A96C5">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EA1A3E">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#F16A81">ire</span>]] 15:48, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
:::::::Doesn't anyone find it peculiar that despite being Normal at the time, Togekiss took severe damage from [[Jessie's Seviper]]'s {{m|Poison Tail}} in [[DP171|her debut episode]] and was unfazed by [[Ash's Gible]]'s {{m|Draco Meteor}} in [[DP172|the following episode]]? {{unsigned|‎PKMNAdventurer}}

== Fairy/Flying classification a la JN075? ==

Since Dawn’s Togekiss appeared in a flashback in JN075, after seeing what ForceFire responded with on another discussion back in 2014, doesn’t it make sense for Togekiss to be a Fairy/Flying Pokémon now, since she reappeared after the Fairy-type was introduced?<br>Gallade User, 31 July, 19:06 UTC Gallade User 19:06, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
:Togekiss was never stated in the episode to be a Fairy/Flying type so it stays a Normal/Flying type--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]] ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 19:10, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
::I said "If it were to reappear and '''it is shown to be immune to Dragon types''', maybe. But for now, it's a part normal type" at the time, bolded for emphasis. Simply showing up means nothing.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#00A1E9">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#59C2F1">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#BF004F">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D5598C">ire</span>]] 05:24, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
:::Do you have the slightest idea how ridiculously illogical that statement is? Togekiss was retconned in Gen VI to be a Fairy Type. Therefore, Togekiss is a Fairy Type. '''It's an undeniable fact of Pokémon.''' '''''Undeniable.''''' End of story. '''''Verdict: Fairy Type.'''''[[User:Goyangi|Goyangi]] ([[User talk:Goyangi|talk]]) 22:33, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
:::::The point is that there are many cases of Pokémon that were Normal type and presented that way in the anime(eg Whitney's Clefairy). It is justified to expect change within the anime itself, Goyangi.-([[User:Hikaru Wazana|Hikaru Wazana]] ([[User talk:Hikaru Wazana|talk]]) 22:46, 4 September 2022 (UTC))
::::::I suppose Sylveon is suddenly Normal Type now because it appeared in a BW short before XY?[[User:Goyangi|Goyangi]] ([[User talk:Goyangi|talk]]) 22:53, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
:::::::So is the argument that the Togekiss species was considered a normal type until this episode? I think it makes sense to not retcon Pokémon that appeared in earlier series, but Dawn's has shown up in a series that has confirmed the typing, with only about 35 episodes in-between them. Is it really more logical to state it appeared as a normal-type? [[User:Rahl|Rahl]] ([[User talk:Rahl|talk]]) 23:34, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
::::::::Until she actually appears again ''and'' no-sells a Dragon type move during that appearance or otherwise has the Fairy typing explicitly acknowledged, she's Normal/Flying here. This isn't a '''species''' thing, it's an '''individual''' thing, the same reason why we waited three generations for a female Heracross to appear and then another generation for Ash's Heracross to reappear all so we could ''finally'' confirm him male by his gender difference because he predated the whole concept. However "ridiculously illogical" anyone might think it is, that's the ruling and so far her post-Gen VI flashback appearances simply do not cut it for this. And no, Cynthia's Togekiss from [[JN123]] being noted as Fairy type won't be relevant here. '''''[[User:Gengarzilla|Gengar]][[User talk:Gengarzilla|zilla!]]''''' 20:35, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::With confirmation that Togekiss is now a Fairy type, any future appearance by Dawn's Togekiss will allow it to be changed to Fairy/Flying.--[[User:BigDocFan|BigDocFan]], Junior Admin Bulbapedia ([[User talk:BigDocFan|talk]]) 21:01, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::::Problem that this creates a ripple effect, no? I mean, in [[JN120]], is confirmed that Clefairy is fairy-type, in XY they had already established the fairy type of Azumarill, how are we going to work with these Pokémon?I still think we should wait a little bit and analyze case by case.-[[User:Hikaru Wazana|Hikaru Wazana]] ([[User talk:Hikaru Wazana|talk]]) 22:38, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::::@Gengarzilla: "''So far her post-Gen VI flashback appearances simply do not cut it for this."''
::::::::::::Dawn's Togekiss has already physically appeared in Journeys (JN089), although it was before Togekiss's Fairy-typing was confirmed in JN123. However, as both BigDocFan and [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Dawn%27s_Togekiss&diff=prev&oldid=3564194 Force Fire] have already stated, only a future appearance is necessary for it to be changed at this point. Both gender differences for pre-Gen IV Pokémon and type changes are actually considered species-wide changes, but individual Pokémon are required to reappear since those changes didn't exist during those times.
::::::::::::@Hikaru Wazana: Since the anime has officially acknowledged the new typing for these Pokémon, all future members of these Pokémon (as well as reappearances of past inidivduals) should be treated as such, while the ones that don't reappear should be left untouched. It's not as if we try to analyze every Magnemite/Magneton that has appeared post-Gen 1. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 23:51, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

== Togekiss Fairy Type JN123 ==
Since [[JN123]] confirmed Togekiss is a Fairy-type now, shouldn't that mean that ALL Togekiss (past and future) should be officially classified as Fairy-type now? I mean, Dawn's Togekiss has appeared in Journeys, the series that confirmed its Fairy typing? [[User:HygorBH|HygorBH]] ([[User talk:HygorBH|talk]]) 03:28, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
:[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Dawn%27s_Togekiss&diff=3564194&oldid=3554610 She has to reappear again]. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 03:37, 28 December 2022 (UTC)