View source for Talk:Silver (game)

==Silver==
Is there any way to suggest that Silver is "Giovanni's red-haired son" without causing a discussion that would span for 40 days and 40 nights, break for an hour, then start up again? --[[User:Meowth346|Meowth346]]

>Emphasize that's fan speciulation at best? - Zeta

What if we classified it as "heavily implied?" Since, it seems to be. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] 03:19, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

==Sneasel==
If I'm remembering correctly, Silver steals his Sneasel from a guy in Cianwood. He gives Gold his Shuckle so Silve dosen't come back and steal that, too. That seems pretty relevant to me....[[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] 03:19, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia's article on Silver is MUCH more detailed, which is odd, since this is Bulbapedia....[[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] 03:20, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

:responding to this a year later -_- Anyway if you have a look at Silver's non-starter Pokémon they are all more or less sweeper-based in stats. Shuckle has no offensive powers really, and the only time it has them is when it sacrifices all its defense (and its still too slow to be any good). I doubt Silver wanted it.--[[User:Outrage DD|Outrage DD]] 19:10, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
::Yeah, I definitely think that Silver steals his Sneasel from the guy in Cianwood, since he has it in a point of the game where you can't get it at that point yet. <sup><big>[[user:chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">Cho</span>]][[user talk:chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">col</span>]][[special:contributions/chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">ate</span>]]</big></sup> 19:12, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

== Crobat? ==

...how does having a Crobat show that he loves his Pokémon? [[User:TinaTheKirlia|<span style="color:#E75480;">Tina</span>]][[User talk:TinaTheKirlia|<span style="color:#E75480;">The</span>]][[Kirlia (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#E75480;">Kirlia</span>]] ♥  19:36, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Because this means that his Pokémon love him, 'cause Golbat will evolve just if its Happiness is at maximum. And, a Pokémon can't be happy if the Trainer don't care about them, just if the Trainer really loves the Pokémom.'''[[User:Haruka uzumaki|<span style="color:#705898">うずまき</span>]][[User talk:Haruka uzumaki|<span style="color:#705898">ハルカ</span>]]''' 20:05, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

:Yeah but, there are [[Soothe Bell|other ways]] too get your Pokémon to love you, [[Luxury Ball|loads of others]], so it doesn't really mean he loved his Crobat in return. I'd look [[Happiness|here]] for more info xD [[User:Takoto|<span style="color:#2E0854"><b>Takoto タコト</b></span>]]|<span style="color:#F4C2C2"> サソデイ = 愛</span> 21:43, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
::[[Revival Herb|You have to be cruel to be kind.]]'''[[User:Optimus35|It's the <span class="explain" title="Optimus35"><sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc></span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]</sup>''03:57 29 May 2008'''''
::: ↑ Wouldn't that just cancel it out...? --[[User:Cat2killer|CAT2 A.K.A Cat2killer]] 00:35, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
::::It's tough love, but anyway. The Crobat is likely implied further evidence that Silver was not just spouting things about 'caring more' for his Pokémon, but actually changing (or has changed) his initial attitude of being a rash and cruel trainer.[[User:HechEff|HechEff]] 12:27, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

== Sprite ==

I want to update the battle info to the new standard, but first, I need to know this: Do we currently have the Silver sprite uploaded? 'Cause we really need it for the template. --[[user:Chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">Chocolate]]</span> <small>([[user talk:Chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">talk to me]]</span>)</small> 01:53, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
:Do you have the moveset too? [[User: Tc26|'''<span style="color:#0000ff;">tc</span>''']][[User talk: Tc26|'''<span style="color:#2929fb;">2</span>''']][[Special: Contributions/Tc26|'''<span style="color:#4b4bf8;">6</span>''']] 01:58, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
::Check silversprite 1 and 2 [[User: Tc26|'''<span style="color:#0000ff;">tc</span>''']][[User talk: Tc26|'''<span style="color:#2929fb;">2</span>''']][[Special: Contributions/Tc26|'''<span style="color:#4b4bf8;">6</span>''']] 02:15, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
:::I don't quite have the movesets, but I do know this: In [[Generation I]], the 4 moves were always the most recent 4 moves that a Pokémon would know it its level. So, when I'm putting the table, I'll do it like that until someone else can confirm otherwise. --[[user:Chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">Chocolate]]</span> <small>([[user talk:Chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">talk to me]]</span>)</small> 02:19, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
::::They've got movesets and stuff if you search hard enough in a GSC walkthrough on GameFAQs.com. [[User:Gligar|<font color="green">'''Gli'''</font>]][[User talk:Gligar|<font color="blue">'''gar'''</font>]] 02:25, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::Well, can someone more experienced update the battle info? I'm a bit too tired to do it right now. --[[user:Chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">Chocolate]]</span> <small>([[user talk:Chocolate|<span style="color:#6D351A;">talk to me]]</span>)</small> 02:42, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
::::::I can do it. [[User: Tc26|'''<span style="color:#0000ff;">tc</span>''']][[User talk: Tc26|'''<span style="color:#2929fb;">2</span>''']][[Special: Contributions/Tc26|'''<span style="color:#4b4bf8;">6</span>''']] 02:48, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Why does the article has a Crystal sprite if it's the same as in Gold and Silver? The correct thing is to put a list of all the sprites and their variations like in Green's/Blue's article. [[User:Pokemon lover|Pokemon lover]] 21:51, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

==Kamon?==

Do we really need to mention that name?  It's just the first player name choice for the Silver version, and Hiroki (the first for Gold) isn't the name used by Gold's Anime equivalent (Kenta). "Mentioned on an Anime website"?  What site? Sounds like fanwank to me. [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 13:54, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
:Thank you, ArcToraphim. [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 15:56, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
i think the original japanese you guys have in here for silver its not the right one cause while i put it in pokeani it appeared richie.
:シルバ is correct. Pokéani isn’t really the best source. (See also: the recent removal of all the gym leader titles taken from Pokéani.) [[User:IIMarckus|IIMarckus]] 19:52, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

== Picture of Anime Debut ==

I just saw that it had all the text on it. If I possibly could, would it be acceptable for me to find one without text and replace the current one? ''[[User:ShinjiLover|<font color="9933ff">シンジ</font>]]''<sub>'''[[Paul|<font color="6600CC">Shinji</font>]]'''</sub>[[User talk:ShinjiLover|<font color="5218FA">Lover</font>]],'''[[Special:Contributions/ShinjiLover|<font color="9900cc">Edits</font>]]''' 07:39, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
:By all means go ahead. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 00:07, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

== Optional names? ==

Where are his optional name? [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 20:04, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:Not here. Anyone got GSC? Go find out for us. &mdash; <small>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<font color="#0000C8">THE TROM</font></small>]] &mdash; 01:56, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::I... don't think he has any. It enters "SILVER" in Gold and Crystal, and "GOLD" in Silver, but other than that... nothing. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#DAA520">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">chidna</span>]]''' 02:03, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Would that be 50/50 split in Crystal? <small>- ''unsigned comment from {{u|Cat2killer}} ([[User talk:Cat2killer|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cat2killer|contribs]]) ''</small>
There are no optional names. When the cop asks for his name, you have to come up with it yourself. --[[user:Ryuutakeshi|Ryuutakeshi]] 1:40 August 27 2009

== Anime Counterpart ==

Isn't [[Paul]] Silver's anime counterpart, but it said on this [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Cross-canon_counterparts page]. --'''[[User:Lance123|<span style="color:#DAA520;">∫∆π©∑</span>]][[User talk:Lance123|<span style="color:#C0C0C0;">一二三</span>]]''' 09:15, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
:Yeah... that page lied.... naughty page... it's all better now. &mdash; <small>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<font color="#0000C8">THE TROM</font></small>]] &mdash; 09:43, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

== Silver's new design ==

Serebii has uploaded a scan showing Silver's redesign for the remakes, but the pic is too small [http://www.serebii.net/heartgoldsoulsilver/scan0609.jpg]

I was wondering if anyone has a link to a bigger one, so that we can upload a decent image with his new design and update the article. -- [[User:Pokéman|Pokéman]] 12:05, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
:Even if there WAS a decent version of this scan, there is no way it would be put in the article. just wait for the official site to update with the art. There is no reason for crappy quality art to be used. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 12:14, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
:Filb.de and PokéBeach. Basically the same though. I agree, wait for the site. They're incomplete. The site may update this weekend, the next one or the one after that. <span style="font-family:Cracked; font-size:125%"><sup>[[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|<span style="color:#303030;">tc</span>]]</sup>[[User:Tc26|<span style="color:#e03828;">²₆</span>]][[User talk:Tc26|<span style="color:#303030;">tc</span>]]<sub>[[User:Tc26/Sandbox|<span style="color:#e03828;">26</span>]]</sub></span> 12:40, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
::Sketch: Even if we don't replace the main image, shouldn't we add the scan with the redesign somewhere in the article?
::Tc26: Thanks. I had checked PokéBeach and Filb.de before writing the comment, but they hadn't updated with the new scans yet. -[[User:Pokéman|Pokéman]] 13:15, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
:::No, because it's low quality. Just wait for the site to update. It won't take long. -[[User:Sketch|Sketch]] 13:23, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

== HGSS sprite ==

<big>W</big>hy does silver's HGSS sprite keep getting remove from the article? [[User talk: ShinyPikachu|<sub><span style="background:#FF8040"><span style="color:#FFFFFD">Shiny</span></span></sub>]][[User:ShinyPikachu|<span style="background:#FFFF00"><span style="color:#E57E4C;">'''Pika'''</span></span>]] 20:13, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

:Because we don't know it's final, just like we don't know if any of the other revealed sprites are final. Remember that Weavile and Munchlax got changed after being revealed for D/P, and a bunch of others that hadn't been revealed probably got changed too. '''[[Team Rocket|<small><span style="color: #550000;">R.A.</span></small>]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Hunter</font></small>]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Blade</font></small>]]''' 21:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::Well, we know what the final one is now, considering Pokémon Sunday recently showed a battle with Silver. If they changed his sprite after that, I want to know why.--[[User:Ryuutakeshi|Ryuutakeshi]] 23:55, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
:::Is it the same one? I can't find the thing on Sunday... '''[[Team Rocket|<small><span style="color: #550000;">R.A.</span></small>]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Hunter</font></small>]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Blade</font></small>]]''' 00:34, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
::::Look on [[Talk: Rival|this page]]. The sprite is <small> kinda </small> there. [[User talk: ShinyPikachu|<sub><span style="background:#FF8040"><span style="color:#FFFFFD">Shiny</span></span></sub>]][[User:ShinyPikachu|<span style="background:#FFFF00"><span style="color:#E57E4C;">'''Pika'''</span></span>]] 00:44, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::Alright. Now I have to wait to see if the one on my Sandbox page is the final after the animation or not. '''[[Team Rocket|<small><span style="color: #550000;">R.A.</span></small>]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Hunter</font></small>]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Blade</font></small>]]''' 01:07, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
::::::This is probably known to you all, but we know can update ALL sprites, since they have all been ripped.--[[User:Ryuutakeshi|Ryuutakeshi]] 05:23, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Including Silver's animated one? '''[[Team Rocket|<small><span style="color: #550000;">R.A.</span></small>]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Hunter</font></small>]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Blade</font></small>]]''' 21:25, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
::::::::You know, I know that there are people out there who have it, but I can't for the life of me find it. {{unsigned|Ryuutakeshi}}
:When Bulbagarden gets hold of the sprite, they will go up. Don't rush. Thank you. &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 01:45, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

== Soul? ==

That's right. Silver has a new name now, his default is either Heart (ハート ''Heart'') or Soul (ソウル ''Soul'') depending on your version.
--[[User:Raine|Raine]] 15:14, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
:It was like that in Gold and Silver too, his name was either Gold or Silver was his default name depending on the version. The exception is Crystal, where his default name is Silver. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 18:23, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
But not anymore.

His posssible names are only Heart and Soul, ''not'' Gold or Silver, so the article should be moved.--[[User:Raine|Raine]] 22:34, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
:We're leaving it where it is until the English versions come out. Same for {{OBP|Gold|game}}. [[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 22:40, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
::Must we really change it? People still call him Silver. A lot of people don't even realize his new defaults. --[[User:Ryuutakeshi|Ryuutakeshi]] 02:34, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
:::Well no wonder, the game hasn't even been out for a week, and is Japanese-only so far. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 02:54, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
::::His default name is:
*Pokémon Gold: Silver
*Pokémon Silver: Gold
*Pokémon Crystal: Silver
*Pokémon HeartGold: Soul
*Pokémon SoulSilver: Heart
::::So if we did move, which one would we move him to?  His history makes me lean towards keeping the article at Silver. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] <sup>|[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]|</sup> 18:25, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::Also, placeholder data in HGSS calls him "Silver". So, we should stick to that, just as we call FRLG girl "{{ga|Leaf}}". --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 18:50, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
::::::{{OBP|Kotone|game}} has the default names "Heart" and "Soul" as well. If we call Silver Heart or Soul, that'll get... confusing. [[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 19:03, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::::I would like to stick with Silver. If you look for the most common default name in the list, that is the answer. I would think that it would be one of the player characters if you were to sau Heart or Soul, not Silver. [[User:Solar Dragon|Solar Dragon]] 19:07, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
::::::::As I'm sure you all know, the Pearl article was recently changed to Barry on the grounds that it appears at the top of two of three default name lists. I guess you can sort of apply the same argument here, but keep in mind this is a remake. In addition, the Barry article chose to ignore the placeholder name. Keep in mind that placeholder data isn't necessarily reliable (Red would otherwise be Ninten, Blue'd be either Sony or Terry and Barry would be Cedric), though it was used in a case where no clear default was ever indicated (Leaf). I guess the real answer to this is if Bulbapedia is willing to include an outdated generation in this. I personally wouldn't, but it's your call. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] 04:15, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

== Say What?! ==

Quote: "Giovanni and Silver's relationship is revealed in HeartGold and SoulSilver if the player brings a promotional Celebi to the Ilex Shrine in Ilex Forest. Celebi takes the player back in time three years to witness Giovanni abandoning Silver to go into seclusion because of his defeat. Silver's hate for Team Rocket apparently stems from them failing his father."

What's this event? I've heard of the pichu event and arceus event, but not this one. Where did this come from, and why can i not find anything else about it on any other pages? The curiosity is killing me! [[User:Morgil27|Morgil27]] 19:00, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
:Maybe because the games have been out less than a week and thus information is still coming in? But it's true, here - http://pokebeach.com/2009/09/part-4-of-heartgold-and-soulsilver-coverage. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 19:02, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
::Nintendo haven't acknowledged it in the pre-release info but it has been found inside the game's code. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] <sup>|[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]|</sup> 15:20, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
:::[http://www.serebii.net/heartgoldsoulsilver/celebi.shtml Serebii] has an article on it if you'd like more info. [[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 18:57, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

== Hometown ==

Now that Giovanni is confirmed to be Silver's dad in the games, should we change Silver's hometown from "Unknown" to Viridian City? It'd make sense. [[User:Reign|Reign]] 23:05, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
:No... think about it. Parents could be born someplace totally different from child. [[User:Ht14|<span style="color:#B69E00"><sup>'''''ht'''''</sup></span>]][[User talk:Ht14|<span style="color:#E1E1E1"><small>''14''</small></span>]]<sup><span style="color:#4FD9FF;">★</span></sup> 23:10, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
::Giovanni is also shown abandoning Silver at the gate to Johto near Viridian... [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 00:27, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::Exactly. I'd say that Silver's hometown being Viridian is a pretty safe bet. [[User:Reign|Reign]] 02:12, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::::Umm just wondering, was he born in Johto or Kanto?--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|<span style="color:#7F7E83">Midnight</span>]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|<span style="color:#191970">''Blue''</span>]]''' 02:14, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::Um... that's what we're talking about... sorta... ''Alpha'' [[User:CuboneKing|<font color="Red">Cu</font>]][[User talk:CuboneKing|<font color="Bronze">bo</font>]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|<font color="Green">ne</font>]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|<font color="Black">King</font>]] 02:15, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::::::Well I'm kinda a blond, but with brown hair. Well back to the topic, did it say anything in the games?--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|<span style="color:#7F7E83">Midnight</span>]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|<span style="color:#191970">''Blue''</span>]]''' 02:17, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Read the stupid article and find out. <!--Sorry, I'm in a bad mood...-->''Alpha'' [[User:CuboneKing|<font color="Red">Cu</font>]][[User talk:CuboneKing|<font color="Bronze">bo</font>]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|<font color="Green">ne</font>]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|<font color="Black">King</font>]] 02:18, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::::::::I know it was confirmed in the game, I'm just talking about did it say anything in the games of where he came from.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|<span style="color:#7F7E83">Midnight</span>]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|<span style="color:#191970">''Blue''</span>]]''' 02:21, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::That makes no sense. ''Alpha'' [[User:CuboneKing|<font color="Red">Cu</font>]][[User talk:CuboneKing|<font color="Bronze">bo</font>]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|<font color="Green">ne</font>]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|<font color="Black">King</font>]] 02:22, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
::::::::::Did it say anything about if he came from Kanto or Johto? B/c Giovanni is a Kanto native(presumably), Silver must be from Kanto, but he could been born in Johto.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|<span style="color:#7F7E83">Midnight</span>]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|<span style="color:#191970">''Blue''</span>]]''' 02:25, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::::Which is what we're talking about. Giovani is from Viridian, and the scene in the game where Giovanni leaves Silver is at the gate connecting Viridian to the rout eleading to Johto.So while it's never outright said Silver is born in Viridian, chances are he was. [[User:Reign|Reign]] 00:22, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
:Think about it. Giovanni's job as Mr. Evil Overlord takes him all over the Pokémon world. You see him in Saffron and Celadon Cities. Silver may have been born there. Let's not forget the fact that it is (or so I am led to believe) the woman who gives birth; no in-game evidence ties Giovanni to anyone in particular. It's entirely possible that Silver is [[Julia]]'s son, and Giovanni's just been lying about being a sailor because his woman doesn't like Team Rocket. Or something equally absurd. Point of the matter is, Silver's birthplace is unknown and we aren't going to put anything in. &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 06:01, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
::Eh? The only places we saw Giovanni travel to were Kanto cities (and Tohjo falls, AFTER we see him leaving Kanto and abandoning Silver). Not only there's no evidence to suggest that he had to travel to other regions prior to his defeat by Red, but it's highly unlikely considering that Team Rocket was mainly a Kanto-based organization during Gen I. - [[User:Crystal Master|Crystal Master]]
:::The point was we don't know where Silver is born. We can guess, but it is not going into the article. &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 20:43, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
:::It's likely Silver was born in Viridian, but unless it's confirmed for sure no, it shouldn't be added. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 21:33, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

==Introduction==
This page's introduction is kind of confusing. When I first read it, it sounded like the Fame Checker referenced Special and "Silver's dark demeanor" along with the red haired child clue.  I'd edit this myself, but wanted to ask if this was just me or if other people also find the sentence structure confusing.

Here's the sentence as it is now:
Prior to the release of Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver, fan speculation held that Silver was Giovanni's red-haired child, due to Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen's Fame Checker's many references to Pokémon Gold and Silver versions, to Giovanni being Silver's manga equivalent's father in Pokémon Special, and to Silver's dark demeanor and detestment of Team Rocket.

And here's how it could be changed:
Prior to the release of Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver, fan speculation held that Silver was Giovanni's red-haired child, citing as evidence Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen's Fame Checker's many references to Pokémon Gold and Silver versions, Giovanni being Silver's manga equivalent's father in Pokémon Special, and Silver's dark demeanor and detestment of Team Rocket. A sidequest in Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver later proved the theory true. 

--[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 01:59, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

== Leaf... ==

Shiningpikablu252: Oh, come on! You said yourself that Leaf should be mentioned in the FR/LG section of the timeline article but not in the G/S/C/HG/SS section because she existed on FR/LG but not on the G/S/C/HG/SS timeline. Now you're contradicting yourself by mentioning her in an article that is about a GSC character, and therefore, it's about the GSC timeline (especially considering that the part I edited was talking about a line said by Giovanni in HG/SS, not FR/LG, so he was clearly talking about Red). What's up with that?

And second, why was the article protected? No "canonicity debacle" started. I simply corrected a mistake, and before anyone could agree or disagree with it, you reverted it and protected the article. - [[User:Crystal Master|Crystal Master]] 02:47, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

:If the fact that Red appears in Mt. Silver and Leaf doesn't appear at all were enough to outright suggest that only one of them can exist in canon, then there wouldn't even be any canonicity debates to begin with.  <strike>However, the one and only text reference in the original Generation II games that explicity implies Red came from Copycat, something that can easily be changed to be gender-neutral in a remake.</strike>  Even back in Generation II, they said Team Rocket was broken up three years ago by "a kid", which in Genration IV context would imply either Red or Leaf.  And odds are the writers wouldn't insert any new text that would explicitly imply Red is the only canon character from the three-years-ago timeline, especially since they took the trouble of perfecting Leaf to begin with.  (Yes, I said perfecting--female player characters were taken into consideration as far back as the original concepts for the Japanese Red and Green, but weren't implemented until Crystal due to technical restrictions.)

:Furthermore, Red's team at Mt. Silver is based primarily on other forms of Pokémon media, primarily Ash from the anime, but also in Generation II from {{Special|Red}} in [[Pokémon Special]] (this would explain Espeon).  As far as we're concerned, if the depiction of Red is not fully video-game-based, then nobody has a place to say that Leaf has absolutely no place in canon simply because Red's there and Leaf's not.

:In closing:  The Leaf mentions stay.  To remove them would imply that the Generation I games were the one and only proper canon for the three-years-ago story, and that FireRed/LeafGreen themselves are non-canonical, and that in turn would put some doubt on HeartGold/SoulSilver's canonicity.  Whether the Leaf mentions remain in the current wording or not, that remains to be seen.  --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 03:26, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


::"If the fact that Red appears in Mt. Silver and Leaf doesn't appear at all were enough to outright suggest that only one of them can exist in canon, then there wouldn't even be any canonicity debates to begin with."

::The point is - Leaf's story from FR/LG isn't canon. Red and Leaf can't both be the kid who defeated Team Rocket and became the regional Kanto champion in the same continuity.


::"However, the one and only text reference in the original Generation II games that explicity implies Red came from Copycat, something that can easily be changed to be gender-neutral in a remake. Even back in Generation II, they said Team Rocket was broken up three years ago by "a kid", which in Genration IV context would imply either Red or Leaf."

::If that was the case, I wouldn't have a problem with leaving the kid's identity's ambiguous. However, you're wrong. Blue stated that he was defeated by Red (yes, he mentioned his name) after he became champion when you meet him in Cinnabar Island.


::"Furthermore, Red's team at Mt. Silver is based primarily on other forms of Pokémon media, primarily Ash from the anime, but also in Generation II from {{Special|Red}} in [[Pokémon Special]] (this would explain Espeon).  As far as we're concerned, if the depiction of Red is not fully video-game-based, then nobody has a place to say that Leaf has absolutely no place in canon simply because Red's there and Leaf's not."

::Not really. Special Red's team was based on GSC Red's, not the other way around.
::GSC and HG/SS Red's team is based on the four Gen I starters (Pikachu, Venusaur, Charizard and Blastoise) and Pokémon that Red canonically met in Gen I (he got Eevee from that man in Celadon, Lapras from that Silph scientist, and Snorlax when he met it blocking the path to Fuchsia). The only part of HG/SS Red's team that is a reference to other media is Pikachu, as it has the same moves as the anime Pikachu.


::"In closing:  The Leaf mentions stay.  To remove them would imply that the Generation I games were the one and only proper canon for the three-years-ago story, and that FireRed/LeafGreen themselves are non-canonical, and that in turn would put some doubt on HeartGold/SoulSilver's canonicity.  Whether the Leaf mentions remain in the current wording or not, that remains to be seen."

::What? You're saying that for FR/LG to be canon, Leaf has to exist? How does that work? Last time I checked, FR/LG presented two alternate continuities: one where Red traveling Kanto, collecting badges, defeating Team Rocket, and becoming the Kanto champion. The other one was identical except for Leaf taking Red's place. You're telling me that both continuity are canon within the same timeline? How is that even possible? You're saying that Team Rocket took over Silph, was defeated by Red (or Leaf) and ran away, then decided to come back and take over Silph once again, just to be defeated by Leaf (or Red)? That Giovanni was defeated by Red (or Leaf) in his Gym and disbanded TR, then had a change of mind and went back to the gym, then was defeated by the other player character and decided to disband TR once again? That the S.S. Anne sailed from Vermilion City two times (nevermind the fact that it was said that it only comes back once every year)? That Kanto had TWO regional champions? That...
::Sorry, but no. The kid who became the Kanto champion and defeated Giovanni and TR was either Red OR Leaf, not both. And since HG/SS blatantly stated that Red was the Kanto champion (therefore canonizing Red's story from FR/LG), then Leaf has no place in the timeline. - [[User:Crystal Master|Crystal Master]] 04:10, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
:::GS was a continuation of RB. It had Red at the end coz Red was the player character. How is your copy of HGSS going to know which gender you played as in FRLG? It makes sense to simply approximate the whole story to Red's journey only. Leaf's journey exists in the FRLG canon, true it is blissfully ignored, but it still exists and to that extent we as Bulbapedians are bound to cover it. &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 04:53, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
::::He has a point though. The one that Giovanni lost to is the same person at the summit of Mt. Silver. Who is that person? Red. Not Leaf. I'm not saying to deny her existence. But the point is that she's not the one at Mt. Silver. Red is. It's that simple. Unless I'm wrong and someone can prove that if you play as Kotone and Leaf will appear instead, then that's basically the case. --[[Tracey Sketchit|<span style="color:#33CC66;">'''ケンジ'''</span>]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#6600CC;">'''の'''</span>]][[User:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#FF00CC;">'''ガール'''</span>]] 05:26, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

"if you play as Kotone and Leaf will appear instead"
:That actually sounds plausible, make sense to me. Can anyone check that? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 05:35, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
::I plan on doing it once my game arrives. --[[Tracey Sketchit|<span style="color:#33CC66;">'''ケンジ'''</span>]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#6600CC;">'''の'''</span>]][[User:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#FF00CC;">'''ガール'''</span>]] 05:37, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
:::You all probably know by now, but nope. Leaf's not there. Sorry Leaf, you're not canon (or at least you didn't become champion, defeat team rocket and become a legend.  --[[User:Gen1king|<span style="color:#F08030;">'''GE'''</span>]][[User talk:Gen1king|<span style="color:#CC0000">'''N1'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Gen1king|<span style="color:#660000">'''KI'''</span><span style="color:#330000">'''NG'''</span>]] 23:19, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

== Back sprite ==

Could someone please upload Silver's Back Sprite from his Tag battle with the [[Gold (game)|Pla]][[Kotone (game)|yer]]? [[User talk: ShinyPikachu|<sub><span style="background:#FF8040"><span style="color:#FFFFFD">Shiny</span></span></sub>]][[User:ShinyPikachu|<span style="background:#FFFF00"><span style="color:#E57E4C;">'''Pika'''</span></span>]] 20:20, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

[[File:HGSS Silver Back.png]] [[User:Kingofall42|Kingofall42]] 10:20, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
there you go.
:Thank-you. Now someone needs to put it in the table <b>EDIT:</b> Nvm, didn't notice it in there. [[User talk: ShinyPikachu|<sub><span style="background:#FF8040"><span style="color:#FFFFFD">Shiny</span></span></sub>]][[User:ShinyPikachu|<span style="background:#FFFF00"><span style="color:#E57E4C;">'''Pika'''</span></span>]] 13:51, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Girl Silver ==

Are you sure that's a girl? Cause the only difference I see is that he has bigger eyes in that drawing. Does it say it in the text or something? --[[Tracey Sketchit|<span style="color:#33CC66;">'''ケンジ'''</span>]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#6600CC;">'''の'''</span>]][[User:Kenji-girl|<span style="color:#FF00CC;">'''ガール'''</span>]] 08:03, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
:It doesn't look female at all to me. --[[User:ElectAbuzzzz|'''<span style="color:#ED9121">electAbuzz</span>''']][[User talk:ElectAbuzzzz|'''<span style="color:#ED9121">z</span>''']][[Special:Contributions/ElectAbuzzzz|'''<span style="color:#ED9121">z</span>''']] 10:04, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

== Name ==

He's "Boy". That's his default name in HGSS. Move it? /sarcasm '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TF''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#666666">Lambda</span>]]''' 20:10, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
:Where's ''that'' taken from? Way I figure, his HGSS name is either simply "Rival" (Japanese DeviantArt Pixiv uses that tag often enough) or "Soul" (similar to FRLG's "Green"(/"Blue") as the rival of "Red"). [[User:TJF588|TJF588]] 20:58, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
::Actually, it is "Passerby Boy". <sub style="color:#00008B;">'''[[User:Blake|Blake]]'''</sub> <sup>[[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]]</sup> 20:47, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
:::Wouldn't "Passerby" be his trainer class? -[[User:KinCryos|KinCryos]] 02:55, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

== Celebi Event: Silver's Abandonment Dialogue ==

Silver: You told me... you were the number one in the world! Are you gonna quit? What are you going to do now?
Giovanni: .................. One must acknowledge one's defeat before he can move on... I will go solo... for now... So that one day I will form a stronger organization!
Silver: What aspect of you was number one? Gathering so many only to be defeated by a mere child!
Giovanni:  Putting together the potential of many is how you produce a huge power... That's what an organization is... That's the strength of an organization! I failed... to make the best use of my subordinates' potential...! But you shall witness one day the revival of me and my Team Rocket!
Silver: I don't understand you! You don't make any sense!
Giovanni: .................. One day, you will understand. (Walks away)
Silver: I don't want to understand you! I will never become someone like you. A coward when you're alone and acting like a tyrant when you're in front of other cowards! I will become strong! I will become a stronger man all by myself! All by myself!* (Walks up to player)
Silver: ...What are you staring at? (Kicks or pushes player) (Runs off)

*Stretched Text
You're welcome  --[[User:Gen1king|<span style="color:#F08030;">'''GE'''</span>]][[User talk:Gen1king|<span style="color:#CC0000">'''N1'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Gen1king|<span style="color:#660000">'''KI'''</span><span style="color:#330000">'''NG'''</span>]] 23:52, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

== Massive problem with his image, literally. ==

Right now his image is stretching the page it's so large, I've forgotten how to make images in a template smaller. Just go on his page and you'll see what I mean. Can someone fix this? [[User:Takoto|<span style="color:#2E0854"> - <b>Takoto</b></span>]] 19:51, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
:It's a simple enough fix, I just don't know the specific size it's supposed to be or I'd fix it. Politoed666 should be able to do it. --[[Gallade|<span style="color:#00A000;">'''エ'''</span>]][[User:Galladeon|<span style="color:#0000A0;">'''ルレ'''</span>]][[User talk:Galladeon|<span style="color:#B69E00;">'''イ'''</span><span style="color:#93abc3;">'''ド'''</span>]] 19:56, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

==Rematches==
In Gold, Silver, Crystal, HeartGold, and SoulSilver, Silver (In my games I own, I call him Jackson) can be rematched at the Indigo Plateau on Mondays and Wednesdays. 
[[User:DAC12|<font color="Navy">Dragon</font>]] [[User talk:DAC12|<font color="Gray">Ace</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/DAC12|<font color="Black">Cameron</font>]] 01:03, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
:We know...In fact, I've found out most, I believe, if not all of them, of their moves, but yeah, we already knew...--[[User:PsychicRider|<span style="color:#78C850;">'''Psy'''</span>]][[User talk:PsychicRider|<sub style="color:#F85888;">'''ライダー'''</sub>]]''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|<span style="color:#C4E673;">'''☮'''</span>]]'' 01:10, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

== Stadium 2 ==

Is he really called "Rival Rival?" [[User:CuboneKing|<font color="Red">Cu</font>]][[User talk:CuboneKing|<font color="Tan">bo</font>]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|<font color="Green color light">ne</font>]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|<font color="Black">King</font>]] 23:00, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

== Hair color? ==

Has nobody seen the difference in haircolor from Silver's HGSS back and VS sprites? [[User:Alexjuuhh|Alexjuuhh]] 18:23, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
:It's because of the lighting, you can see slight color differentiations in the other character's back and VS sprite as well. <span style="color:red">—<small>♥</small></span> <b>[[User:Jello|<span style="color:orange">Jel</span>]][[User Talk:Jello|<span style="color:#90a8e0;">lo</span>]]</b> 19:31, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

== Three eye colors? ==

Gen II art is black, Gen IV art is grey...I'm not seeing "red" among his sprites. So where does it come from? [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 23:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
:The opening animation when starting the game shows them as red. '''[[Team Rocket|<small><span style="color: #550000;">R.A.</span></small>]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Hunter</font></small>]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Blade</font></small>]]''' 23:35, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

== Just curious... ==

..but does anyone know where to see this placeholder data in HGSS that says his name is Silver? [[User:Pocketfanmk|Pocketfanmk]] 06:24, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

==Huh??==
I went to Dragon's Den on a Thursday and he was there, but he wouldn't battle me?!? It was kind of like I had battled him, as his words were like I had, but I hadn't.--[[User:Juzey|<span style="color:purple">Juzey</span>]][[Shaymin (Pokémon)|<span style="color:purple">!!</span>]] <small>''([[User talk:Juzey|<span style="color:orange">Talk</span>]])''</small> 16:38, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
:Have you already done the tag battle against Lance & Clair?  That's the only battle involving Silver that takes place in Dragon's Den.  If you want to battle him again directly, you have to meet him in Indigo Plateau on a Monday or Wednesday.  —[[User:Minimiscience|Minimiscience]] 18:04, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
::In that case the article needs to be made clearer: ''Following Silver's final encounter with the player and after the player has become Champion, Silver can be found training on Tuesday and Thursday in the Dragon's Den, and will appear at the Indigo Plateau on Monday and Wednesday to challenge the player, should he or she appear.'' implies that you can battle him when he is at Dragon's Den. --[[User:Juzey|<span style="color:purple">Juzey</span>]][[Shaymin (Pokémon)|<span style="color:purple">!!</span>]] <small>''([[User talk:Juzey|<span style="color:orange">Talk</span>]])''</small> 09:57, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
:::I fixed it. --[[User:Juzey|<span style="color:purple">Juzey</span>]][[Shaymin (Pokémon)|<span style="color:purple">!!</span>]] <small>''([[User talk:Juzey|<span style="color:orange">Talk</span>]])''</small> 10:01, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

== His son ? Really ? ==

I just did the Celebi event in my SoulSilver version and found nothing to suggest that Silver is Giovanni's son. Did I miss something here, or does this article need to be edited ?--[[User:WenGobou|WenGobou]] 21:26, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

It's spelled out in the Japanese text, IIRC. [[User:Blazios|Blazios]] 22:16, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Kay, thx. But why would they remove it from the English version ? Could a Japanese person confirm this ?--[[User:WenGobou|WenGobou]] 12:31, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

== Weak starter ==

Playing on an emulator, and using Pokesav to mod my save file, I gave myself Totodile and Chikorita in my PC box, and then picked Cyndaquil as my starter. I get to the first battle with Silver and he sends out a Chikorita, not a Totodile like he should have.--[[User:Lycos Ex Mortis|Lycos Ex Mortis]] ([[User talk:Lycos Ex Mortis|talk]]) 07:26, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

== Why is his Gold/Silver/Crystal pokemon on another page? ==

That doesn't make any sense. {{unsigned|StarDragonJP}}
:It's because the page is too big. If any page gets large enough, it becomes difficult or impossible to load, so at that point large sections need to be moved to a subpage to alleviate the server stress. Since GSC is older and thus less relevant than HGSS, it makes sense that GSC information would be the first to be moved to a subpage. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 07:09, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

== Passerby Boy ==

I think we should move the article to [[Passerby Boy]], as Silver is not his official name, and since [[Ethan]] is no longer called Gold, looks really silly to call the rival Silver. Although Passerby Boy is a title rather than a name, it is actually used ingame. Silver in fact is not his default name in Silver and HGSS. [[User:RubyLeafGreenCrystal|RubyLeafGreenCrystal]] ([[User talk:RubyLeafGreenCrystal|talk]]) 20:38, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
:No. His counterparts are called Silver, fans (or alternatively, '''''everyone''''') primarily calls him Silver. Passerby Boy is more like his trainer class than an actual name. And saying it looks ridiculous when paired with Ethan is an opinion, and a rather weak one. Ethan is technically still Gold, just with an official name.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#F1912B">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#F6B775">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#5599CA">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#90BDDC">ire</span>]] 06:07, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
::technically, only '''Passerby''' was his trainer class with '''Boy''' being used as a placeholder name. this only enforces why we ''shouldn't'' move the article. --[[User:KinCryos|KinCryos]] ([[User talk:KinCryos|talk]]) 19:54, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

== More Quotes ==

I saw a Soul Silver nuzlocke runthrough on YouTube once and after battling Silver the game said something like his ID card fell out. Then Silver said something like "Oh no! You saw my name!" or something. (I honestly don't know, I'll try to find the video again.) Since it was probably modified to work on a computer, should we put it in? --[[User:Mira Zannah|<span style="color:#ff00ff">Mira Zannah</span>]] [[User_talk:Mira Zannah|<span style="color:#09C202"><small>(Feel free to yell at me)</small></span>]] 20:13, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
:It's on the page right under HGSS quotes: ''"Give it back! That's my Trainer Card! Oh no! You saw my name…"'' [[User:Ht14|<span style="color:#AB2813"><sup>'''''ht'''''</sup></span>]][[User talk:Ht14|<span style="color:#00A000"><small>''14''</small></span>]] 04:16, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

== Real Name ==

As stated in the above '''Passerby Boy''' section: The name [[Silver]] is pure fanon, taken only from one of two conflicting, flimsy original sources (if we consider [[Pokémon Crystal]] a secondary source). However, in both sources, this character '''directly''' and '''absolutely''' states his name, which is ''???''.
For your observation I have provided an evidence: [https://imgur.com/a/YICEs]

This is then '''confirmed''' when you speak to the police officer who asks for ???'s name. When you answer with the correct answer, ''???'', the cop accepts your correct answer and lets you continue with the game. ??? is then identified by his canon name, ''???'', ''throughout the whole game'' for ''decades''. This is still the case on my original copies of both [[Pokémon Gold]] AND [[Pokémon Silver]] - and yours too if you played it right and the batteries didn't die.

It is irresponsible to refer to this character by his fanon name when a clear canonical exists. Please refer to him as ''???'' in future. I thank you. [[User:Today|Today]] ([[User talk:Today|talk]]) 02:29, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
:... no... just no. That's called being ridiculous, there's no way we're going to move this page to ??? - this page is never getting moved '''period'''. "Silver" is the name of his manga counterparts, which makes calling this page "Silver" valid enough, even if it is not confirmed to be his official name in the games.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#F1912B">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#F6B775">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#5599CA">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#90BDDC">ire</span>]] 03:10, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
::Unfortunately, I don't see any strictly canonical reason why this would be incorrect. Furthermore, the localizers/translators would have had his dialogue rephrased to something other than "My name's ???" so early in the game (why would he introduce himself at all if he didn't have a name yet?) if that wasn't the character's name. It's a pointless guesture to impose what we think is "ridiculous" on these games. [[User:Milotic1|Milotic1]] ([[User talk:Milotic1|talk]]) 04:01, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
:::I don't think the dialogue "My name is ???" is meant to be taken so literally. The "???" is a placeholder. Him introducing himself "when he doesn't have a name" is an in-game thing and isn't meant to be taken so literally.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#F1912B">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#F6B775">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#5599CA">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#90BDDC">ire</span>]] 04:29, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
::::For your info, Silver is the name of only 2 manga counterparts. His other two are instead Black and Tsubaki. Also, what authority do you have that gives you the right to say that ''this page is never getting moved '''period''''', or to remove a suggested moving template like you did to mine months ago? No bad feelings, but I would like to know if admins are allowed to remove "suggested" moving templates, just because they disagree. I am not for or against keeping the page "Silver". Just wanted to point out a fact and to know your position. [[User:RubyLeafGreenCrystal|RubyLeafGreenCrystal]] ([[User talk:RubyLeafGreenCrystal|talk]]) 21:41, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

== Name suggestion (Gnohio) ==

Looking over the debate of "Silver" vs "???", my friends and I, after some discussion, believe we have forged a suitable compromise. Many Johto/2nd gen fans prefer to call him Gnohio. This is a very unique name and exotic but fits well in the Pokemon world, especially for the son of Giovanni. There is also some speculation that the devs who created the Spaceworld Demo used the name Gnohio. Additionally there is suggestion of a tradition among some Pokemon livestreamers to use the name Gnohio as a rival in gen 2 games. As a result of these discussions, I have added a note detailing that he is also known in English as Gnohio. -{{unsigned|Bogavante}}
: As someone who frequents Pokémon streams I have never heard this, and the only reference between this name and the Pokémon series is from a RP board on steam. Post some proof. -[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 00:10, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

== ??? ==

??? is difficult to say actually. That sounds weird. Plus it doesnt make sense grammatically. I prefer to agree with the name Gnohio due to it being used by the Spaceworld developers. - {{unsigned|Doondook De Storm}}
:Show me where it's used by the Spaceworld developers. -[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 00:10, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

All right: https://imgur.com/a/V2ypUbA {{unsigned|Doondook De Storm}}

:If the thing about "Gnohio" (which I've never heard about, also I wonder how it'd be spelt in Kana) is genuine and not a hoax, then it's still trivia material at best. It's comparable to "Gyarao" for Blue. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 07:31, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
::Aside from this supposed screenshot of Shigeru Miyamoto responding to some email, there no proof of this present. Also, Shigeru Miyamoto was a producer for Pokémon Crystal but NOT Pokémon Gold and Silver. TCRF makes note that the Rival already has a pre-selected name but Gnohio is not one of the known names. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:teal">Frozen</span>]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:green">Fennec</span>]]'' 09:04, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Also, I find it highly suspicious that Shigeru Miyamoto would talk so openly about the Spaceworld Demo with some random fan. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 09:28, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

Hm. Seems with Miyamoto's word, Gnohio has been confirmed as the beta name of the character. I think it vastly is superior to ???, because ??? is not possible to pronounce. It does not have enough vowels in it to be pronounced easily in the English language. Also it seems the site glitched out and deleted the edit I made earlier adding Gnohio to the names. So the debate now is, where should the name be included? I think it's good for the Names section and maybe a trivia question. What do you guys think? {{unsigned|Bogavante}}

:I agree. It should be put into the first paragraph, as well as Names and Trivia. {{unsigned|Doondook De Storm}}
::<nowiki>*</nowiki>sigh* Firstly, like I said in the above section, "???" is not meant to be taken so literally and seriously. "???" is not his name. It's just the game placing a placeholder until you've named the rival. Secondly, do you honestly believe that is Miyamoto? That's he'd respond to a random fan, in Englishno less. Seriously. How do you fall for that? I need a drink...--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 04:04, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Nothing has been confirmed and given the wording of the email; this literally just points to someone impersonating Miyamoto in hopes that a fanon name gets taken as canon. If "Gnohio" had ever been a canon name, it would have been mentioned years ago in some continuity. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:teal">Frozen</span>]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:green">Fennec</span>]]'' 14:10, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
::::Literally everything in this e-mail is dubious. Firstly, Miyamoto having such a private conversation with a random Pokémon fan without any associations with press or anything like this. Secondly, why would Miyamoto even talk so openly about a thing that Nintendo never officially acknowledged (and they seem to be doing everything to keep the leak secret - for example, the spreadsheet with Spaceworld Demo data has recently been taken down)? Thirdly, the phrase "Spaceworld developers" makes no sense. The name "Spaceworld demo" is merely a fan name for the leaked ROM, as it was presented on the Nintendo Spaceworld '97, it is not something that would be used internally by the devs. And who the heck are "Spaceworld developers"? It was just the usual Game Freak team of that time. Really, nothing makes sense in this e-mail. Either the author of the screenshot got tricked by someone, or they just fabricated this entire message to shill their own unbased ideas. It is also strange that this name was proposed by two completely new users whose only contributions are centered around the matter in question. Perhaps I'm overreacting, but I would check whether these two accounts aren't the same IP. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 14:36, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

I agree with the user who explained that ??? was simply a placeholder, although it's easy to comprehend why people are confused due to the character introducing himself as ???. I was just pointing out furthermore that this is an impossible option due to it being impossible to pronounce. How would one pronounce it, questionmarkquestionmarkquestionmark? Other than that, the Spaceworld details warrant further investigation and cannot be dismissed offhand. I wouldn't draw conclusions so quickly, instead we should see if this is the real Miyamoto, maybe try to get in contact with the real one to confirm it somehow. Given that it has been two decades since the Spaceworld demo was created, it doesn't seem odd for him to talk about it off the record, especially after it was initially leaked. Developers talk about finished products afterwards and reveal details all of the time. It could be a big breakthrough, I see a lot of nitpicking and a lot of logical errors. My guess is "Spaceworld developers" refers to the team who developed the Spaceworld demo, but you would have to ask Miyamoto that question, pure speculation. Also @Maxim, those details need to be ironed out elsewhere. I've welcomed the admins to look over our IP addresses after previously being accused of sockpuppeting by a different user (which is not true). {{unsigned|Bogavante}}
:There is absolutely ZERO reason to believe that is Miyamoto who even wrote that email. The English is very broken and written by someone who is more or less trying to pass off fanon as canon. Unless there is a valid and visible email that can be seen; there is no point discussing if that is actually Miyamoto. As admin ForceFire pointed out, the email is sketchy at best and otherwise not worth investigating or looking into. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:teal">Frozen</span>]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:green">Fennec</span>]]'' 22:56, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
::Frankly, this whole Gnohio thing seems like you and/or your friend making something up and seeing if you can get Bulbapedia to accept it.
::You come out of nowhere with something no one else knows anything about, present a "screenshot" that could easily be faked, and you've at the very least coordinated with someone else to make it look like you're not just a lone crazy. That's fishy as all get out.
::All this means that it's not remotely on us to investigate anything. If you want to show us some proof, get something that you can ''link'' to on Miyamoto's official Twitter, or record him saying it in person or something. The way things look right now, that's about all that would be convincing. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 00:19, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Not that there was any chance of "Gnohio" being a legitimate name, but through the power of Google, searching "gnohio" brings up very little in general, and almost nothing Pokémon related (the one I found that was, was a fanmade Eeveelution). So "Many Johto/2nd gen fans prefer to call him Gnohio" would be very incorrect. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 23:27, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

== Official figurine of Silver naming him... Silver ==

Bandai has started releasing figurines for the Gen II characters, [https://www.bandai.co.jp/candy/products/2020/1000140058.html including Silver]. This allows us to see the current name of this character in Japanese, which is... Silver (「シルバー」). While not surprising, at least now a source for the name is available.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:41, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

:So does that mean we should take down the [[Template:Unknown name|unknown name]] template from this page? [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 05:16, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
::If we didn't have any source like this in the past, I guess so. It would be surprising, but again for some reason the main characters and rivals went unnamed until recent times.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 12:14, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

== Ambiguous disambiguation ==

Saying this because I just experienced it, but "(game)" does ''not'' help clarify that this page is for Silver the character. To me, a simple passerby, I assumed when I saw it in the search bar autocomplete that it was a redirect to the page for Silver the video game. Perhaps (character), (rival), (trainer), etc. would be better. Unsure if there's a strict practice for this. --[[User:GopyXP|GopyXP]] ([[User talk:GopyXP|talk]]) 00:41, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
:It has the parenthesis to be consistent with other game characters like [[May (game)]] or [[Ethan (game)]]. "Character" won't work since Silver isn't the only character named [[Silver (Lugia)|Silver]], same with {{an|Silver|trainer}}.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#44BAE5">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#85D2EE">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#DA7D99">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#E7ABBD">ire</span>]] 01:06, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
::I had the same problem for a long time. Silver isn't the only "game" so it's not like the current solution is any better. How about "game character"?--'''[[User:Team Rocket Grunt|<span style="color:#CC0000">Rocket</span>]] [[User talk:Team Rocket Grunt|<span style="color:#666666">Grunt</span>]]''' 08:53, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

== Move ==

The current title "Silver (game)" appears to be about the game named Pokémon Silver.

Maybe we can move this to "Silver (video game character)" instead? --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 20:46, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
:I agree, it's an ambiguous dabtag. "(video game character)" is a little lengthier than I think it needs to be, though; couldn't it just be "Silver (game character)"? As far as I know, there aren't any other Silvers in games - video or not - aside from the ones like Silver (Masters) which are based on this Silver. [[User:Storm Aurora|'''<span style="background:-webkit-linear-gradient(left,#9CB8C6,#625A88);-webkit-background-clip:text;-webkit-text-fill-color:transparent;">Storm Aurora</span>''']] ([[User talk:Storm Aurora|talk]]) 01:12, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, it can very easily be confused with the actual silver game. I'm pretty sure the only other Silver character is the one from the anime, so Silver (game character) sounds good.  [[User:RiverTheUmbreon|RiverTheUmbreon]] ([[User talk:RiverTheUmbreon|talk]]) 09:14, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Related discussion: [[Bulbapedia talk:Editor's Hub#About the page titles like Red (game), Blue (game), etc.]] --[[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 02:22, 18 February 2024 (UTC)